I was a Equipment Specialist, Machinery and Machine Tools, engaged in rebuild and long term storage of precision machines (Monarch Lathes, Giddings and Lewis HBMs and Bullard VTLs and the like) with spindle bearings set to the pre-load running configurations. I was task with determining if special precautions for shipping and storage was required for prevention of "lining" or corrosion while in storage and shipment i.e. periodically turning of spindles to exercise the bearings while in storage. My study included the random teardown of sever machines that had been stored for a quarter century or more in some cases. All machines were stored with Cosmoline and no lining was present in any of their bearings. That effort was actually laughed at by the Timken Application Engineer when I called him. The Timken guy actually thought about it a couple of weeks before answering my question. He said that I/we were barking up the wrong tree by studying that effect on bearings. He said that idea originated with jeeps and trucks shipped by rail during WWII on trains with the wheels strapped down and fixed in place. It was recognized early on that the vehicles needed to be elevated and left free to turn as the train wheels jarred them at the rail joints. Long story short he said that the WWII bearings were very inferior and that the modern bearings of 1990s were made so hard and durable that the pre-load on the bearings on spindles in storage couldn't touch the loads the bearings were designed for. The SKF guy had the same answer and that was dropped out of our requirement for storing machines and periodically turning the spindles in situ. Both engineers stressed the need for setting the machines up with the best possible storage type rust inhibiting oil like Cosmoline that would prevent lining from rust at the roller and race contact face without damage to oil seals. Also stressed the removal and cleaning of the Cosmoline oils before refilling with the oil recommended by the machine manufactures. And that is all the engineers offered as advice. If your machine was ever in a government inventory for NATO/USA/British that may be the residue in the lead screw bearings that wasn't cleaned before use. Just saying...
Great input. Given the gunk in the coolant tank has the same color and consistency as the stuff glueing the ball screws and bearings, and has also hardened, I am pretty sure it is cutting oil. Aircraft engines have ti be transported in air ride trailers to prevent brinelling from road vibration
@@poshun9407 Not sure what the mechanism would be to make that magnet jump. They are very massive smooth running machines, so I dont epect to see much vibration. I guess I could use two magnets to hold a bridge of cloth to retain the belt.
Hope the ball screw is in good shape! I was treated to a lovely surprise when I removed the Y axis ball screw on my Horizontal machine last year. The machine had apparently sat outside for several years, and the y axis ball screw was exposed to the Arizona elements. When I got it, it was actually completely stuck, so stuck i had to make a clamp block around the screw, then use a 3ft pipe wrench and hammer it back and forth to get it moving. so when I took it out, it was badly pitted in one spot. Haas still sells new ones, but they want 3 grand, which is nearly what I paid for the whole machine. I scoured eBay and found a ball screw exactly the same, but the nut needs to be flipped for around $400, which was much more reasonable. All that being said, it is possible to retrofit something else fairly easily in most cases.
Gotta day man, I look forward to seeing a new video from you in my feed each week! You and this old Tony are the reason I've become interested in machine work in the first place! Great video buddy!
Once you are all done with the rebuilding. You can maho a rebuilding nameplate with dates and names etc. It will have to be thick as to not get worn out with the toothbrushes.
A small note. Benzin is an unlucky word to use in english because there's no such word and the closest one is benzene which is insanely dangerous. Petrol is what germanic and slavic people call benzin or bensin, or in this case we are talking about naphtha which is C5 to C7 :3 I just hope nobody gets the wrong idea and the context is strong enough here. If you want to read about solvents and their proper names, this might help you out donsnotes.com/science/chemistry/hydrocarbon_fuels.html As for the bubbles that get stuck on the surface in the ultrasonic, you can do that with sound waves. Works the other way around too, you can stabilize drops of a fluid on top of the pool of it at about 400-ish Hz and they just roll around pretty much for as long as you want. You basically make it bounce on the surface tension.
Very interesting information about ultrasonic cleaning of bearings (probably not acceptable for spindles though). Can't go wrong with aviation industry advice, considering the inherent safety factor!
nice job, i would have still managed to not put the belts in 😅 take care with those citric acid based cleaners i sent you on blackened steel parts btw. they often etch the blackening away!
@@ChriFux About the same as vinegar, but I wasn't exactly scientific or generous with the amount of citrix acid I put in. They were really heavily rusted.
The only issue with ultrasonic cleaning a bearing is that micropitting may occur, but as much and intensely as you did it (not much and not very) I don't think there is anything to worry about.
Yeah, I looked up the recommendations for aero turbine engine bearings, and they have procedures for U/S cleaning, with specific energy levels, which this would not come close to.
Man, I hated getting anywhere near the horizontal stab actuator. I was phase inspections, and not a fat ass, so I got to go in there every now and then.
I hope it likes the modernised controller I will make for it. Thanks.
3 года назад
Hey, love the videos! Could you point me to the document about ultrasonic cleaning of bearings? Tried to google around a bit, but cant seem to find it. Thanks
@@F2Dcombat The interesting bits regarding ultra sonics are what I cut/paste. The rest is just a bunch of (for the home shop) unacheivable requirements for 10micron filtration, clean rooms, never ever touching them due finger prints etc.
SPOILER ALERT!!! next project is a demagnetizer. Build with the heating element of the ultrasonic cooker he blew up. schedule to be a 47 episodes serie. if it is worth to do something, then it is worth to overdue it. RotarySMP very personal mind setting. Hang on a banner above its desk
@@NicoCarsAndCookies That is a good observation. I expect RotarySMP to come up with an Electro de-magnetizer for this belt which can be built into the Lathe. First step would be to have a "de magnetizing" button that can be pressed at the start of every session, but personally I would like to see a fully automated circuit (much like glowplugs on a diesel engine) to be in place eventually to handle this.
Schaublin lathes are extraordinary machines! Their very capable engineers dictated what hardware got used, and clearly not their procurement department. All your effort is highly appreciated and I happily follow along the restoration. I'm so grateful each time you provide an update and feel very much tempted to hit the like button even before I view the video.
In the past I raced karts that used an axle driven water pump. You had to pull the axle if the belt broke.... I would install an extra 1 or 2 belts and tape them down to the axle to have if needed. I thought about that when you showed that old belt a few videos back. I have also use the pipe container trick for soaking long items. Great content! I also like the engagement in the comments. You have a nice group here.
I absolutely love how you wrote yourself big notes to install the belt and taped it up into the headstock. Also, all the little tidbits about your aviation history is one of the reasons I always come back to watch your videos. That little fact about installing two seals in planes is awesome. They don't teach you that in engineering school.
Sorry about that. I had business trips both the last two weeks and lost a bunch of shop evenings. Also started a "quick project" which I figured I could do in a week.... well nearly finished, and have a fair bit more editng to do, but it will be a longer video.
No apology is necessary. Just checking in to make sure you’re ok, especially in the crazy world we’re living in today. 👍👍😊👍👍. We’ll be here when you’re ready.
Hello, Your making nice progress there... I love the tip on fitting a spare belt... I am sure I will use that in the future... See you next week. Paul,,
HEY........how come the dirt inside the lettering is still there...you've been cleaning that for the last 5 videos? :) Looks like you're coming along swimmingly! KIWI ingenuity at it's best! Cheers!!!!
Marking the waste-pipe (soak-tank). I know the wire "failed" and you used a height gauge. If you didn't have a height gauge (or a tall enough height gauge), it's really easy to use a strip of paper/cardboard. It's a flexible straight edge. Just wrap it around the pipe, and adjust until it meets itself. Then mark. (and I LOVE the extra belt trick. Nice.)
Going further: if you make it NOT meet itself, you can trace a helix. Do it multiple times, and cut along it, and you can get a long strip from a tube. I used it on "beverage" cans.
So what publication is that information from GE? Looks like it might be pretty 'vintage'. What frequency is your ultrasonic cleaner running at? The GE document said 20-40Khz and most cleaners I see on e-zon are 32-35khz in the middle of that range. Electronics typically have a 10% tolerance so even if it was 44Khz it would be in the tolerance range. Might use your contacts in the Aircraft industry to see if Rolls Royce has a Tech note on ultrasonic cleaning too.
I don't think that gear is a clutch, ONLY, it looks brass or Bronze, in those early days, as the motors have some HP to them, these are connected to the screws on the axis by a brass or bronze coupling system, a collar between two shafts, with roll pins (sheer pins), or a single gear, either plastic (as in some small chinease lathes ( in the change gear box)), or brass, the idea is.... if the part being cut experiences a reluctance to cut; either a blunt cutter, too much depth of cut or feed rate selected for the metal chosen, wrong or NO cutting fluid, jammed drill bit, reamer, etc. then the extra torque resulting SNAPS this gears' teeth, being a weak point in the system, saving any other expensive motor or lathe components breaking, instead this 'clutch' gives it's life, saving money, and is a cheap insurance for mistakes, esp if it is an important job, or using expensive, and exotic materials.
These are certainly bronze pulleys. If you think the spreing loaded pointed pins into the pulley are not an overload protection device, what do you think they are?
Great video! The engineering down to a price comment is right on! Damn shame! It's almost to the point where buying anything quality built is impossible, no matter how much you're willing to spend! Profit margin, the enemy of quality!!! Thanks for your time, both filming and researching, and then sharing! 👍😎
Yeah, It is really luck when once of these jewels of no expense spared engineering falls into the hands of a hobbiest in this condition. I have had this luck twice now, as the Maho is in similar physical condition.
Hi, How can i write you ? I work at the CPNV at yverdon as an automantion engineer( its called Automaticien here in Switzerland so i don't know if it's the real translation) As we are doing a lot of cleaning we append to throw away a lot of schaublin parts so yeah I can 99%find you a 16mm chuck.
Thanks a lot for the offer. My Email address is on the channel about page here: ru-vid.comabout I would love to scrounge through your companys rubbish bins :)
I don't know about Benzine, and over here our Naptha is generically referred to as White Gas. I do know by a past experience that Naptha does NOT protect the parts when submerged in it. It apparently retains enough oxygen to allow part rusting over a few days. So watch how long you leave parts soaking in it if it's being used. It is a good solvent and degreaser but highly flammable. Stoddard solvent or Varsol would be much safer. And it's not just aircraft procedure to add a second spare belt or O ring to parts that require a lengthy disassembly to change them. It's pretty common practice in the open pit mining/ large earth moving industries. However I'd be a bit leery about that spare belt touching the rotating spindle given some time for the average above ambient temperatures and gravity to work on it. Maybe adding a couple of self stick cable tie points and zip ties would help?
I only soaked in diesel, the naptha cleaning, drying and lubricating was done in one session. The magnet holes the belt away from the spindle. I might add a second.
Very nicely done :). I had to pull my Weiler's spindle twice as I had ordered the wrong belt and didn't check xD. I'm not sure using a magnet is a good idea, it might fall off due to vibrations. Maybe some velcro with a sticky side might be a better Idea.
I worked for the navy for many years and one of the many things we repaired/refurbished were gyros. The precision (and tiny) bearings were ultrasonically cleaned in many changes of freon , lubricated and put back in service. I do not know the power requirements of the tank or the time involved. Karl
For derusting I use evaporust, which alas is very expensive. There is an obscure article about derusting on the german wikipedia linking to a german company selling siderophores which work similar but only cost a tenth of evaporust.... one day I will try that (evaporust contains detergents helping with grease which you probably have to add to the siderophores solution and the siderophore solution supposedly cannot be kept forever).
Some lovely engineering there, and a lot off it. An annoying technique the German and Swiss use is solid dowels in blind holes, extractor type are much better, but not as strong. Great job on the heart of any lathe, the spindle bearings. Thanks for sharing.
I am all for dental hygiene, but would that sign not be worthy of a bath in the ultrasound? :) Admittedly, a silly comment, but the algo needs feeding... Thanks for more insight into airline engineering and a nice little video to distract myself from the doom surrounding!
Where do you get all this manufacturer recommend practices? Are you just getting this from old catalogs or do they have like maintenance guides for the old machines?
Do you mean the Ultrasonic instructions for bearings? I checked the SKF catalog but they say nothing about it, so I check the GE90 engine manual. Otherwise I was given a scan of the Schaublin manual for this lathe.
This is the ninth episode, but I think I missed one. SO it has only been cleaned 8 times. There is still gunk between the letters. Swiss make very tenacious gunk!
@@sashablfc I really dont target a specific length. I just start with the footage, and edit till it seems coherent. If I find myself getting bored, it gets cut. :)
always good to keep a couple magnets in oil sumps to collect metal bits and in the bottom of casings to keep broken/chipped bits, hardware or a tool you forgot from making a bit of damage into a lot of damage
11:17 its nice to see I'm not the only one that needs to put things around that make it impossible to complete a task without seeing something that I was about to forget.
I didn't a touch it. The bearings have the preload ground into them as matched pairs, and were mounted by Schaublin. I didn't loosen the nuts which lock them to the shaft. The outer races are captured by the Labryth seal (fwd) and the cover plate (rear) which mount up to precision machined surfaces on the headstock casting, to defined clamping pressure.
Basically no excessive runout, it's so nice when things just go together without issue. At least you know this machine should work amazingly well once the restoration is complete. You'll be making flux capacitor parts in no time!
people: [make a mutually exclusive hypotheses] typical man: i think, №2 is bullshit 6:37 true engineer: im gonna check the recommendations from the aviation jet-engine manufacturers
@@RotarySMP yeah, that's right. Also, i think, those guys have a secret list of recommendations about a whole life: *how to pick the good girl *how to get the good job and etc. Guys, who build the aircrafts, do the mistakes rarely, so i can rely on them.
Where do you get your lubricants from? I've inherited a small Myford lathe, but can't get my hands on the recommended ways and spindle oils in local shops.
I googled Kluber LDS18 and ended up on: www.baumann-oil.de It was €24 for 45g and €16 for postage. Most machines use either 68 or 220 weight way oil. I bought a 20L containser of 220 when I got the Maho. I think I got that off ebay.
Dear Guy, I am glad that you finally address this nonsense matter. I have been wondering myself. Are time cards annoying? Is sponge bob nonsense? Are French annoying? Is French accent nonsense? Would sponge-bob make more sense in French? should the time card be then in Spanish language? with annoying Mexican accent? Are Mexican nonsense? Do I like tacos? Am I hungry? .... but then as you see, I have been drifting away. Now, coming back to your question, ithis bring us mostly to this very question: "Is the idea of time being a 4th dimension total nonsense?" Well, I would like explain you my position: The statement "time is the fourth dimension" is a funny one. It's not wrong, but it's not nearly as interesting or profound as people think. Mathematically, a "dimension" has very broad meaning. It's pretty much just a number required to specify something. For example, an ideal gas is specified by its pressure, temperature, and volume. You might not think of it this way, but mathematically, the state of an ideal gas exists in a 3-dimensional space, with pressure, volume, and temperature being the dimensions. In quantum mechanics, we actually use an infinite-dimensional space to describe the state of a particle. So in a mathematical sense, time is definitely a dimension, because "dimension" has very broad meaning. If you use x, y, z, and t to specify when and where an event happens, then certainly you can say that time is the fourth dimension. But remember, this is just in a mathematical sense, and it's not a very interesting or profound statement. It's basically equivalent to "time is the fourth variable required to specify an event." Not overly thrilling. Now, when people say "time is the fourth dimension," what they often mean is "time is the fourth spatial dimension." This is a much different statement, which I think is fairly misleading. It's true that in special relativity, time and space get mixed together, so you can't treat them independently. So, rather than working with 3-dimensional vectors which change with time, it's convenient to work with 4-dimensional vectors in spacetime. But it's important to note that the time dimension is not quite the same as the spatial dimensions. Let's look at how we measure length. In two-dimensional space (x,y), we use the Pythagorean theorem to measure length: L2=x2+y2 . In three-dimensional space (x,y,z), we use a similar formula: L2=x2+y2+z2. It's not much of a stretch to define length in 4D space (w,x,y,z) as L2=w2+x2+y2+z2 . However, in the spacetime of special relativity, the formula for length is somewhat surprising: L2=x2+y2+z2−t2 (using units where the speed of light is 1). Notice the minus sign, because it's significant. It tells us that the rules of geometry in spacetime are kind of weird and non-intuitive. For example, you can see that L2 can be negative (what does a negative squared-distance mean). Mathematically speaking, we're working in a non-Euclidean geometry. The key point is, going from 3D space to 4D spacetime is quite different than going from 2D space to 3D space, or even from 3D space to 4D space. The time dimension doesn't behave the same way we would expect a fourth spatial dimension to. So I think the statement that time is a fourth spatial dimension or that time is the same as space is misleading. No matter how you cut it, the time dimension is treated differently from the spatial dimensions in spacetime. Time and space are intimately linked in a very strange way, but they are not the same thing.
hi, just a little correction about landing gear spare seals, if you activate the secondary seals you have a operational time limit until you replace all the seals, and you don't need to replace the landing gear, just the seals, albeit i admit that you have to remove the shock absorber from the landing gear. nice channel you have keep up the good work.
@@RotarySMP i suspected you are an engine specialist, just between us and all your channel viewers, it's a hard, heavy, greasy and oily job, specially on widebodies.
some video i watched some time about ultra sonic cleaners said to never run the cleaner empty meaning also the basket. No water is obvious but the basket is not mentioned at least clearly on my cleaners manual
Nobody will ever see my apprentice pieces on video! they're proper FUGLY! as a trainee HGV mechanic we were not exactly encouraged to spend much time making works of art, just get something knocked-up that gets the job done! I still use a few of my early 'special tools' to this day but that does not mean I'm going to show them off! I like to think my skills have improved since then, but I can still create a monstrosity when the situation demands it!
@@RotarySMP We'd love to see them, usually they're planned to demonstrate a particular skill or technique so i'm sure there's some educational value in showing them off too! Maybe you could show us a few more tips for successfuly mangling aluminium into something usefull. I worked next-door to one of KLMs teaching facilities until they closed it down a few years ago (and moved themselves into a very fancy new purpose built hangar just down the road) Some of the bits that ended up in the scrap-bin there were beautiful works of art, though many were definately not! Oh, what a wonderfull scrap-bin that was to rummage around in!
I really enjoy this series. That said, I have to say, after a complete disassembly, watching you reuse old bearings causes my eye to start twitching. I am sure you assessed them but for me....all that work...new high quality bearings, period.
@@RotarySMP I recall you mentioning the cost and yes that is steep. If you were comfortable with their state after cleaning em then I am sure you made the right choice. You know what you are doing. I know too little about such things so I'd likely have wasted money on bearing replacements. Looking forward to the next installment in this series! Thank you for your excellent videos good Sir!
Another fantastic Schaublin rebuild vid! I am excited for you that the spindle cleaned up well and the spindle back in the head stock!! Can’t wait to see the finished project!
