Dang the knowledge is so helpful. can't wait to put to use after I'm healed. Also I was the one that DMed you on insta, and asked about pull through stuff lol, can't wait to see what else you have on the agenda!
I have a feeling this is exactly what I needed. Looking forward to putting it into practice. I liked what you said about neurological roadblocks, I feel like after hobby lifting for a long time and always tucking the elbows and biasing the lats works against the shoulder position we're aiming for in the backhand.
Best of luck with it all! Once you get that shoulder and elbow pushed out away from the body and you keep that internal rotation of your humerus, things will start to get really easy.
This is a fantastic explanation of the mechanics of nose-down release! This is the one thing I struggle with the most that's kept me at 400-420ft. I own a tech disc, so I'm looking forward to trying this in front of my net. Thanks for the drill!
Nice! Always worked for me, naturally went to this when I use to throw with no intentional arm use or reach back. The internal rotation lets everything flow well
I have struggled with nose up for years and tried all tips. I went straight out to try this one. Its like magic. On the second try im throwing super nose Down. The elbow up que is what did it for me. Thank you so much for your great videos!! I have to relearn all my discs now 😅
I tried this the other day. It really helped me come out of the power pocket properly and get that true powerful snap (something I've only been able to do by pure luck from time to time during my 3 years of playing). With this drill about 70% of the discs got that wide swing pop. Ripping the hand down felt like I was gonna push the discs into the ground, but they flew up on a hyzer like in yr demo. I mostly did evo 1 and just slightly tounched evo 2 before I went back home. Definitely gonna do more of it! Felt powerful.
Oops, I tried replying already but looks like it glitched out. Wanted to say I’m happy to see how well it worked out for you, and thank you for reporting back :D
@@NickKrush.DGandFit naa, I should be thanking you. The "rip the elbow up n the hand down" is the best que I've ever heard for backhand form. And that is not something Im just saying.
i only throw hyzer flips thus why i need nose down.. if im throwing anny flat is prolly best and in many cases nose up is best.. a nose up understable disc can fly flat in low ceiling a quote from Ulibarri
Definitely curious about the "hand down" portion of this, what exactly that means and what it feels like. I have an issue with starting my pull relatively low, and letting the hand drift up to above the elbow.
Great progression! Was curious if you ever struggled with upper trap over activation (lead shoulder shrugging) and what drills/cues helped you clean it up
I haven't but it's possible being strong and coordinated in the weight room while keeping the scapula depressed (shoulder staying down) has helped a bit here. If you have issues with scapular elevation/shrugging, you may have to do low-power 1 leg and standstills while you keep the scapula depressed and protracted until it becomes second nature. You may also have to throw more with your lower body and relax the upper body a bit.
@@NickKrush.DGandFit I never even considered the vertical position of the scap. I’ve managed to maintain protraction at my higher end speeds. This just makes too much sense. Time to drill it. Really appreciate the reply and your content! As someone with a fitness background, it’s super helpful to have principles explained in functional terms. Much easier to digest and apply.
It dose make since ive done this but not as a drill and ive noticed that my nose is more down with my standstill and goes just as far as my run up imma give this more time and do it as a drill to get it more natural for my xstep
I am guessing that he means while you’re ripping the elbow up, you push the hand down(aka pour the coffee/tea). I’m not positive though. I would be interested in hearing him elaborate
Gannon Buhr recommended this position. I totally forgot to keep up with that position. I recorded some content adding this in and aced a 225 ft shot on a very tight line. Ty for this reminder!
@NickKrush.DGandFit ty! If it wasn't for double OT in the Rangers/Canes game, I'd have posted it already. Lol! Will be tagging this video in it for sure!
Just found yr channel. What is it supposed to feel like when youre ripping your elbow up and your hand down ("Breaking a door" etc)?. Also, how to covert it into a flat or baby hyzer shot? Thx
Thanks for stopping by :) it feels sort of like breaking a door with the elbow, you can imagine the door is slightly upwards to make sure your elbow doesn't drop at the end. For working it into more normal golf shots, you can just adjust your reachback and pull-through to not be angled up as much, or you can imagine you are throwing flat and just make sure to keep your elbow up above your hand.
Great question! For a lot of my clients, I have them doing these arm and nose focused 1-legs and standstills before they go into the bracing drills for x-steps thereafter, so you could try that out
Im interested in the rising elbow you explained and will be trying it out tomorrow. Might want to contact tech disc for a discount and buy a net. Some data would go a long way in substatiating your techniques.
Quite a few client of my clients have gone from positive nose to nicely negative nose with their tech discs, so I hope you’ll have similar success as well!
i seem to the more hyzer i throw the more my pull through is flat vs if i throw an anhyzer i have that "suitcase" pull through you talk about and my body does that naturally i noticed vs me trying to do it etc.
This is fairly common, you are likely setting the anhyzer angle with the wrist and disc from the reach back to make the release more consistent. I wouldn't stress it too much
whe i’m relaxed i rotate my upperbody too early. Do you feel like you’re almost actively using your core to prevent the rotation? staying coiled aslong as possible if you will. Or is it more about driving the elbow to stay infront of the shoulders, or maybe both?😅
Great question, I can't answer with complete certainty without seeing someone's throw but from what it sounds like, you'll want to coil against your rear leg (which is trying to turn inwards) and then when you fire your hips, you'll want to transfer that energy straight to your arm. You can also try keeping your head looking away form the target on some lower power throws to see if it slows the shoulders down.
BRO i figured out how to get my nose down FINALLLLY! instead of using the tip of my thumb for the pressure spot on the disc i squeeze with the thumb muscle located on the palm into my fingers and that allows me to "pour the kettle" and stay poured through the release point! gained an easy 60ft from that on every shot basically.. now im having to learn my bag all over again since i literally throw my Mako3 with 10% power to go the same distance i used to have to put 60% power on it!
What does the disc look like flying away from you when you have about 10° of nose down? what do you see at 5°? when I throw my most nose down shots, I typically just see the edge of the disk like what i would assume a 0° nose down would look like.
I never know the exact angle until I do photogrammetry of a side camera angle afterwards, but after doing it so many times I usually have a rough idea of whether it was kinda nose down or very nose down, haha. If you are throwing a flat shot and you can see just a bit of the bottom of the disc, that's usually a good sign that you are somewhere from -2 to -8 degrees.
Awesome, I didn't know extreme nose down was that beneficial for hyzer bombs. When switching from going for closer to -10 nose angle to a less extreme nose down for non hyzer bomb lines, do you mainly just turn the key less aggressively for less nose down? So far from my practice with turn the key, it's easy to have dramatic changes in nose angle but harder to consistently narrow in on a few, like small, medium, and extreme nose down. When I want just a little nose down, I'm often too gentle and get 0-3 nose angle, then when I see that with the tech disc and go for a few degrees nose down I often overshoot and get really nose down, like -6 or less.
Correct! You can turn the key less, and can also be less aggressive with how high you keep your elbow through release. I think if you are anywhere from 0 to -7 degrees, you are in a great spot. Even top throwers will have some variation from throw to throw, so finding a consistent feel or throwing pattern should be plenty for scoring well and throwing far.
Oh, so elbow above wrist/hand also promotes nose down? Kinda makes sense when I think about Paul Ulibari's upshot video where he suggests wrist above elbow forces nose up.
@@nordicdiscgolferatrumble9430 you are exactly right. Keeping the elbow above the wrist promotes internal rotation of the humerus at release, which helps a lot with nose angle, whereas wrist above elbow promotes external rotation and air bouncing (like in floaty putter upshots).
@@NickKrush.DGandFit I probably just need to practice solidifying the feeling of the turn key effort required to get my desired default nose angle so I have a clearer reference point to deviate from for less or more.
@@disc-golf-neil agreed, it's an incredibly short time frame for those small precise movements to happen. Really a miracle of human skill development that we can even do it consistently at all!
I had reconstructive knee surgery June 2023 and I am Right handed. So the right planted leg like that gives me a bad tweak. How can I get more distance and nose down throws without risking tweaking the knee when throwing in this manner?
Getting good at throwing standstills could help reduce some stress on that knee, especially since the 1-leg throws in this video will transfer well to the standstill. If you look at BlitzDG on youtube, he has a very long and smooth coil which generates tons of power without stressing his right knee.
I use a 4 finger power grip for drivers, the disc should rip out of your hand on its own. You can experiment with throwing hard and finding a way to have the disc rip out on the line you are throwing toward. I wish I could help more but it's tough without doing a proper form review of the individual :/
Dude this stuff is good. Taking this to the field pronto. I had my own epiphany with this a few weeks ago and I was finally able to surpass 450ft. But I wasn’t this specific and wasn’t maximizing even what I found. I know golf lines are what matter, but I NEED to hit 500 this year for my own selfish sanity.
The forward elbow drive will be hard and will happen right when you brace, then the upwards drive of it will start right around when the disc reaches the pocket.
@@NickKrush.DGandFit So you're going into the pocket with the elbow on a line, then you're raising the elbow off that line to pull the disc from the pocket?
@@zachnemec9421 on medium and high hyzers yes. On more flat shots, I like to keep things more level (but always having the elbow slightly above the hand)
Nick, gyroscopic precession is not a factor in release nose angle. GP happens when there is a directional force vector applied to a place on the flight plate. At release there are opposing directional forces on the disc (thumb / index) that negates GP. (PS, I like the way you throw). Feel free to contact me if you want more clarification.
But then you are assuming the disc is released simultaneously with equal force between the thumb and index finger every time within a millisecond and they always cancel each other out, which forces the conclusion that nose angle is always caused by something else. Anyway.... This is the stuff that Ulibarri guy has been theorizing. This theory argues that you want to release the disc with your "hook" last, your index finger, hence creating an upward force at release. Intuitively, I think it's a sound theory and should definitely not be discarded without actually delving deeper into it with data. I mean. If you think about it. You have a disc slinging off your index finger at high velocity, centripetal force or whatever, orbiting your index finger, and somehow you are supposed to control nose angle with grip or flapping the tail up or down. Maybe it just is as simple as, get your hand and thumb out of the way as much as possible, and let the forces take over. Just a thought😜
The disc starts to spin before all points of contact are released from the disc. That final point of contact (pointer OR thumb) applies a directional force vector to a spinning disc.
@@KhufuhK there is a directional force vector at release but it does not have anything to do with gyroscopic precession. The vector at release is the nose angle at release not 90° later.
Nice to see you in here Coach Taylor, thanks for commenting and the nice words! I'm not 100% sure on the release thing yet, but have been reviewing some really high framerate footage of the pronation to supination transition and noticed the disc is already spinning at over 50% of its terminal spin rate, giving it's solid body some gyroscopic stability (even though the hand is still influencing it). What I'm thinking is that the negative rolling moment (aka hyzer tilting force) applied from the supinating hand (driven by the upwards elbow motion) during those last few milliseconds before release (when the disc already has some gyroscopic properties) precesses the nose down in the first ~1/4 rotation of the disc at/after release. I was also suspicious this is why GG has such negative nose angles, which are partly enhanced by his very late and aggressive pronation to supination transition. Would love to talk to you about it and everything else related to throwing though! Still a bit of mystery around it no doubt. What's a good medium for me to contact you at?
@@NickKrush.DGandFit GG also throws very high, and the higher you throw, the lower the nose must be to compensate. That is, at least, the reasoning for throwing as nose down as he does. 🙂
Interesting. This seems almost completely the opposite of the “turn the key” or “flip the disc” cues. Is the idea is that the body won’t necessarily feel comfortable in this position, and thus will naturally supinate right at the hit point, thus “flipping the disc” on its own?
Turning the key is a feeling. It feels like you're turning a key. That doesn't mean actively use your arm and hand to turn an imaginary key. As the elbow is driven up and the lower arm and hand are driven down, this will cause a rotation of the whole arm in the shoulder socket, the same way it does when you turn a key in a door.
@@samhowl1152 I guess as I was trying to do this motion (force hand down and elbow up), I was unconsciously pronating my wrist. It appears that I can do the move without the pronation, but for whatever reason, my body feels more comfortable when I pronate. I suppose that is where my question stemmed from. Thanks!
I understand the concern! You can experiment with using the "turn the key" cue with this, that could provide even more chance of supinating at the end while keeping the elbow high.
By using the muscles in the lower arm and hand to push down as the elbow drives up. The lower arm and hand push down like when you're pushing down on an air pump.
@@NickKrush.DGandFit thanks Nick. As someone who has been immersed in backhand form for several several years, I enjoy your videos a lot because I can tell how seriously you have also delved into backhand form. I was surprised so many were confused but hope the example I gave helped a few. I wish I could figure out what I'm doing wrong with my plant leg. I'm ripping holes in the sole of my plant show under the heel. I get hiking boots with thick tread. Within a month, I'll flatten all the tread under my lead heel. At 3 months it will finally rip all the way through the bottom and I have to throw them away.I play every single day with a buddy. He has shoes that are still in fine shape after a year. Any ideas?
@@samhowl1152 that's very interesting. I wonder if you have a very strong brace and heel pivot and the heel pivot on concrete tee pads is eroding the shoe's material quickly? Just a theory. It could also be from overly heel dominant footwork, but that's something I couldn't know without seeing video.
@@NickKrush.DGandFit I'd love to send you some video if you'd review it. I have given it lots of thought. I have been stuck near 400 feet for quite some time. I'm convinced somehow I'm using my lead Foot/leg incorrectly and a lot of power that could go into the throw is being directed into the sole of the shoe, destroying it over time.
How is this ( 4:01 ) nose down? Isn’t nose angle relative to the ground? If the far left of this still shot is the leading edge, aren’t you measuring relative to the launch angle? On a flat shot, wouldn't your throws expose the bottom of the disc to wind-force drag? Your drill is exactly the opposite of Stokely's anhyzer cut roller drill, which worked great for me: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OYHFDEmwdWU.htmlsi=y4EAa6y20JoHa-EX&t=636
Thanks for watching and commenting! The nose angle is similar to angle of attack, which is the angle of the object above the incoming air stream's velocity vector. I had the camera in a bad spot to see it, but the disc's nose was below the disc's flight path. Since the flight path was so steep (high launch angle) it was hard to see how the nose was a bit below it.
If you are referring to the one-leg drill that I use at the beginning of this video, it's just a constrained throwing style to help teach certain things :) So, for normal throwing on the course and in the field it would be more like what you have seen where people are also using the back leg.
