Oxalic Acid Vaporizer, Battery Powered. Interview with Janos Fenyosy, A Higher Dose may not be good. 

Having seen the InstaVap in action, it really is a great unit. Janos put a ton of thought and research behind this great product. Great interview Fred, thank you for sharing. Watching on my lunch.

1 of your best informative videos yet Frederick 👌👍.

And thank you Janos, i think i bought the 323rd one sold in us by Rob, ordered it as soon as Kaymon did video on it, it works amazing, first time in 8yrs of working with bees that my bees pulled thru winter like champs after 3 OA treatments in fall.

What a great interview. Thnx so much Fred and Janos. Love the Instantvap. Being a new beekeeper I have no prior experience with other units, but surely appreciate I do not have to do all the cords and inverter slugging! Was very nervous the first time I used it , but got it fired up and it performed perfectly. I did get the crystallization at my entrance and wondered what that was about....will tap the frames apart the next time. Thnx again Janos , for all your hard work and skill!

I bought one great tool , I live 30 kilometres from Budapest

Thank you Fred, once again very informative and so great to see actual beekeepers solving the temperature fluctuations by using 1st principals and heating the bottom and not the sides and was more concerned about safety. Great info on the purity / version of OA that is in use and in the "tar" left over and need to clean.

That was fascinating, thank you, Fred and Janos. One thing which struck me instantly was the huge variation in temperature due to the thermal mass of the chamber, OA, and evaporative energy used, and the large degree of hysteresis from bulk switching the entire heating element on or off. To explain why I found this surprising I need to give a little back story. In February 2017 I gave up smoking after a 40-year habit. My Doctor and several Consultants in a number of specialisms (unfortunately, I suffer from several conditions which require regular attention) tell me that they can no longer tell I ever smoked, which I guess is very encouraging to any existing smokers considering if they can quit effectively and usefully after extended periods of reliance, and a credit to my "lucky" DNA. The method I used to quit was vaping (I'd tried everything else over the years, unsuccessfully), and I chose right from the start to use a temperature-controlled vaping device rather than simply dialling in how many watts to apply to the heating coil. Since I'm fairly keen on DIY and something of an amateur science enthusiast I learned rather a lot about it, and there are plenty of circuits commercially available in quantity which vary the voltage to keep the temperature constant or by using very fast pulse width modulation, and measuring the temperature by continuously measuring the resistance of the heating coil, instead of by switching the power on and off with temperature sensing from a thermocouple. Most metals rise at least a little in resistance as they heat up. You can choose a suitable metal depending on preference, the amount it changes with temperature (temperature coefficient of resistance - TCR), or availability. Nickel gives a satisfyingly high TCR, making control very easy and stable, but is not that easy to get as wire or perforated foil suitable for use in a resistance heating circuit. Additionally, some people have a (fairly mild) adverse reaction to even very faint traces of inhaled nickel vapour, and tiny amounts of the coil (nanograms over months, so nothing to panic over) do off-gas. Titanium has a moderate TCR but is expensive and harder to obtain. Of most interest to us, thinking of OA vapourisation treatment, is stainless steel, ideally 316L formulation, which almost all temperature-control capable devices have a preset for. It is readily available in gauges of wire from about 10 AWG (2.6mm) to about 40 AWG (0.08mm), or even wider ranges from specialists, giving a wide range of resistances per cm. The TCR is relatively small, so really precise temperature measurement from that is more difficult and a little less precise, but quite adequate for our needs, I believe. It is approved, preferred or even required for commercial food preparation equipment, so no problems there (frying food in most cooking oils gives higher temperatures, so it is definitely food safe). Most conveniently, small strips of perforated foil with a nominal resistance (at standard temperature and pressure, or 1 bar and 20deg C) of 0.15 Ohm are readily available and could be clamped to any electrically non-conductive surface to heat it. And the range of temperatures at which these devices operate is perfect for OA vapourisation! I have one in my hand which delivers a stable temperature while varying power from 0 to 400w, just by varying the voltage, and it does not overshoot in either direction by more than five degrees Celsius (for the initial temperature overshoot, less than half of that thereafter), even using the relatively insensitive stainless steel 316L. Ever. It runs from a 4s Li-Ion battery, as used in drones and radio-controlled models, and has battery protection low voltage cutoff built-in, along with a range of other features like reverse polarity protection, overvoltage protection, short and open circuit protection, and others. it even does balanced charging through a micro-USB port at up to 5v 2.4A (12w), which is very good for the longevity of the LiPo packs. You can of course charge them faster outside the device, but the faster you charge or discharge them, the faster they age. You can set it to anywhere from 93-315deg C and it will, when activated, keep it there, using as much or as little of the 400w available to do so, taking well under a second to reach 210C from stone cold (with software, I can measure it - just - at just under 0.1s, but of course, any greater thermal mass would increase that). The only potential problem is that the duration of each individual application is limited to 20s, but I very much doubt if more than that per application would be necessary. Of course, since its intended use if for inhalation, the 20s is a safety limit, as very few people would want to be inhaling for longer than that, and so it serves to prevent accidental injury by pocket-firing the device. I'm certain that for a larger order the manufacturer could change that though - it is just a software setting. Mind you, with 400w on the job, I doubt if more than 20s would be necessary even for higher doses. Oh, and the circuit is over 95% efficient, so battery life should be fine, although it operates at a maximum input voltage of 4s Lipo (14-16.8v, nominal 14.8v) instead of 5s (17.5-21v, nominal 18.5v) as on the higher-powered packs for power tools. I'll try to contact Janos with all this and maybe have a direct chat, as this appears o be right up his alley!

Great video, it's nice to be reminded that people outside of the US are doing great work toward figuring out and in fact pioneering to keep the honeybees save! Thank you for showing this Man's commitment to putting out a working product, his skills and outlook is second to none! I wasn't so sure what to think about the treatment till I saw this video, less is better, I like his approach for sure.

thanks janos ,.and rob lorobee,and all your efforts, and mr dunn

I just ordered one based on your recommendation…really looking forward to trying it out! An early Christmas present to myself!

Great interview

I have one. It's amazing. Built like a tank. No more portable generators and dropcords.

i love this vaporizer i seen kamon's video got one wright away. used it about 200 vape's . works very well, did not clog once. easy to fill, i use dewalt battery's all ready have, well built, fast to use would recommend !!! good interview fred , thank you.

The measured plunger is icing on the cake! Would love to see what his dad thinks of it. Great job. Those engineers are out there.

Great interview, I’m excited to get one!

I bit the bullet and bought one of these vaporizers and oh my gosh I am amazed by how efficient, simple and easy to use it is. So fast. It’s actually fun to use!!!

Thank you for this one Fred and Janos. This was a great show as always.

i give this company a sticker: Super! very pleased to see beekeepers going the depth of a honey bee temp on the design of a vaporizor.

He was encouraging us to use 2 g because of a better treatment and that more study is needed, is that what you got out of his data? My wife wants to buy me one at the hivelife conf because she sees that I need it to care for the bees and I can get it for 450 instead of the 495. Also I am looking forward to meeting you and some of the other RU-vid beekeeping teachers. Thanks

thank you ,nice to get more good science,and understanding, im waiting for my batteries,bees active on this warm day,theyre hunting water,my colonies w formic pro were less active,as i wait out the treatment ,this weekend will see 28°f,so ill be curious on the offgassing and efficacy of the four to 5 days out of a 14 day dose ,much learning right now,thanks for all you do helping us keep being effective w our bees

Keep up with interviews this a great to show out of-box vdo

What a great interview Thank you

At about 5:30 I thought he said "formic acid" but probably means oxalic? Very interesting interview, Fred. I have the corded Lorobbee tool, and my main problem is the nozzle clogging between hives if temps are low. I keep a 1/8" bit in my cordless drill, which quickly takes care of the clog.

Great interview. Thanks Frederick.

Super Beitrag mit Antworten auf zentrale Fragen

I use 1g per box... has worked great...

Hello Frederick Dunn 🥰🥰🥰🥰

Fred great vdo i will get one ty

Got one last month, a great unit!

Might be quite easy to measure the outflow of gasses lime carbon momoxide with LEL measurement devices . Decomposition gives huge volume expansion ,so when decompose there will be a flow at the end of the copper pipe used .

Hi Fred, I would think that Dr. Sealy or your young High School Student could take up the project of identifying efficacy at various temperatures using standard lab analytics that can identify OA, Formica Ac., and other compounds that come off at each temperature…

First let me say I think this vaporizer is great. Api-Bioxal was originally created in Europe to be used in vaporizers that had a self feed system, I believe Italy. I don't know if these still exist with all the progress that has been made with vaporizers. It is a finer powder that "flows". It would fall out of the plunger on this unit though. It uses 3 excipients to make it "flow". All 3 passed requirements of the USDA and EPA to be used on honeybees. It does leave a sticky residue in all vaporizers. The USDA did originally own the Oxalic Acid registration. The USDA granted distributorship to API-BIOXAL and Brushy Mountain Bee Co. The EPA signed off on these distributorships and I'm sure these companies jumped through hoops and money to get this done. Brushy Mountain went out of business and left only Api-Bioxal to be the only legal Oxalic Acid available to us. In Dec. 2022, the USDA turned the ownership of the registration of Oxalic Acid over to Api-Bioxal's (Parent Co.) My Tablets have been at the EPA for registration since early last fall. A 13 month costly ordeal. The "binder" in my tablet is completely inert and already approved by the EPA. My tablets leave no residue. The comments about tableting "pressing the water out of the oxalic acid" makes no sense at all. It does not happen. Also you cannot make a tablet of Oxalic Acid in a tablet machine without an excipient(binder). If you could, I would. My tablets are within 2 seconds as fast as powder when vaporizing, not 20-30% more time as he stated. Oxalic Acid Dihydrate is approximately 25% water, just as my tablets are. In research I tried Oxalic Acid Anhydrous which doesn't have the water. Randy Oliver told me I would only have to use 75% of it to equal a like amount of Dihydrate if I went that route. Turns out the the OA Dihydrate forms a better tablet and vaporizes more readily. You must always read the label on your OA you buy online as I noticed many sellers sell the anhydrous type of OA. I would also like to say many sellers of OA, including Florida Labs, would not give me a Certificate of Analysis for their Oxalic Acid. For registration, the EPA required 5 of these certificates from each supplier I might use to make my tablet. I asked my consultant why companies might refuse to supply these certificates of analysis as many did. His response was they are hiding something. Most oxalic acid sold in USA (none is made in USA) is used for industrial cleaning or dyeing. 99% of it doesn't require a certificate of analysis even though the manufacturer has to supply one when the big chemical distributors import to USA. Not only does the EPA want 5 of these, they want to know how the analysis was done on these certificates, step by step! Some of the COA's I did receive were very inadequate. This EPA requirement insures to us beekeepers the OA being used comes from manufacturers and distributors who monitor and properly record the analysis of their Oxalic Acid product. Once my tablets are registered, I have to keep records of batches and what certificate of analysis is involved in the production. I have to send these records to the EPA on an annual basis. These certificates report the purity, heavy metal content among other things we would not want near our bees. My tablets cost a little more than powder but are easy to use and are premeasured. When they become registered you can be guaranteed it's pure per the label and meets the sourcing requirements of the EPA and USDA. reliable There are no harmful chemicals added to the OA in my tablets. I have treated my own bees with these tablets for 2 years. Mr. Fenyosy's comments about tablets are either he just doesn't know, he is an electronic engineer and a good one, not a chemist or he feels they are competitive to his self measuring system. I don't know but I don't feel that way at all. His invention is a great vaporizer for those that can afford one. I am the owner of Mikes Bees LLC, with the help of my Son and Grandson we make EZ-OX Tablets. Shakenbake 68-69 refers to a school I attended before going to Vietnam as a 20 year old Army Infantry NCO in 1968. I am a 100% Combat Disabled Vet and I have 21 hives of bees. I have been a beekeeper for 10 years or so. EZ-OX Tablets will hopefully be available in the fall of 2023 if not sooner.

Be sure to look up the dealer in your state for this vaporizer if you're looking to get one.

Ty you so much for. These vdo

thank you so much very intresting

Loved the interview, he said he strictly uses OA. I wonder if he does maintenance doses all year with brood in the hive or creates brood breaks or only treats late fall or winter when bloodless

Very interesting! I wonder if it would be better to do 2 g and another 2 g rather than 4 g at once? Everyone seems to be jumping on the 4 g bandwagon. Glenn

Good to know if you over heat OA, you could be making formic acid and killing your queens or causing them damage, I'm still using tripled dosage OAE sponges, and with good results, time will tell if I'm hurting my bees, all my double deeps had it on for more than 90 days.

First!!!

I use a Oxalika with the automatic tablet dispenser on top cost me a lot with import duty and a load of tablets close to £1000 but the unit doesn’t work as well as there video. I have a drill to unblock the nozzle but also the tablets can become sticky and you have to stop and clean the whole thing out a good unit but disappointing after using many different devices I find it hard to believe any oxalic vaporiser doesn’t block up. Do these battery units that every body is talking about really not block up I find that hard to believe.

Great video He said he only used OA for his treatments and that he has had no loss since he started doing this How often does he treat Fred how do u treat O A is cheep I use mite away in june when I remove the honey suppers, then apivair strips, july for the late treatment, I dont want a brood break they need to build up for the winter we have dearth from june to oct but not much come in so I am feeding from the time I take my suppers until winter when I put the candy sugar on top. They cost alot, I use Oav now treat every other week going in to dec there is no brood break till maybe in late dec because I now have that wonderful vap that he made it is set on 445 and does wonderful best tool I have ever had it is great. I have 30 hives I hope all that makes since thanks again for the video O 1 more question what was that battery that u use u are able to treat all your hive with just 1 I want to get 1 for my self I have 4 small ones that do not last long at all thanks

Hi Fred hope you are well. As you know we have the mites here in Australia now. I would like to know if you remove your honey supers when you are going to use oxalic acid vapour treatment for the mite control? We still don’t have much direction here about treatment so I am gearing up to use oxalic acid. Thanks. David Love.

Fred I have received info from the people looking and checking about the mites here in Queensland. Got this notice this week. Can you tell me what type of mite we have here in our port hives. There are 2 species of varroa mite: Varroa destructor and Varroa jacobsoni. We have the Varroa jacobsoni. What does this mean for us here? Lost as to what we have to do😳 Thanks Fred. David. Brisbane Australia.

I use petrolium jelly. none toxic and is ok with high heat. and cheap. you can get at any store.

Great unit, practical - but expensive.

We just purchased one. really no operating instruction so i think i heard that a 2g dose for 2 boxes of bees is suggested. and the proper temp is 445f correct?

Frederick a quick question --- I purchased a Instavap and need direction on the purchase of Oxalic acid Man lake sells Api-Bioxal as the " Approved Oxalic acid for bees. I can find many suppliers for OA some expensive some not so much how do I determine the correct supplier ??? is Mann lake the best supplier for this product???

I think that it is a shame that the experiment to measure the OS started at 200C and not at 157 C. Can It be that OS "sublimation" as we are doing it is in fact Formic acid sublimation? In China there are already using Formic acid vaporisation.

Ha Fred I watched this again did not quite get it was told research says 1 gram per box does not work need 2 grams per box, so I have been using 4 grams is he saying that it sould be 2 grams that 4 grams drops the eficiency and does not work because of the temp drop thanks

I greatly appreciate all your knowledge you share, you know alot about Gods bees, I haven't heard you give our creator credit for His amazing bee's so I was just wondering if you know Jesus, I'd hate to think you didn't & I didn't make sure your trust is in Him. You mentioned something about evilution on last q&a so I just wanted to check if you have your faith in Jesus:)

No sound

Has anyone had any issue with tip clog at all?

does this compare to Lorobee new vap?