Ok everyone. You don't need to vent the roof. That does not degrade the shingles. You don't rot the roof. It performs extremely well. You'll have a much more comfortable house and save lots of money on heating and cooling costs. I did my own house the exact same way and live with it each year - it's awesome. That why we show it on video. It works. Thanks for watching!
I watched several of your videos... in some cases you recommend venting the roof by creating a small space for airflow. running from the eave to the roof vent.... And then insulating..... But in this video you sprayed the foam directly to the roof sheathing. Without creating the airflow...
+mrpearl1 It is always best to spray directly to the underside of the roof sheathing. Allowing an airspace through creative baffle installation and foaming over it has been known to allow condensation to occur in that 1" air space. Spray to the wood deck wherever possible.
@marty pfeif one thing you have to do is get a whole house air handler / filter to treat outside air and bring it inside.... did you figure out your issue?
I just bought a new home and the builder is doing this type of insulation in the upper attic. I'm in Phoenix so it averages 110 degrees here in the summer. I can feel when the AC comes on and pushes hot air out before it gets cool in my existing house that has the insulation right above the ceiling in the attic. This makes it very difficult to locate low voltage and high voltage wire, plumbing etc. The new house will have the foam on the attic ceiling roof and I will be able to walk around and see all my electrical junction boxes, wiring etc. Makes it easy to add additional coax, cat5, electric outlets etc. Plus it will be a lot cooler. You don't want to go into an attic here in the summer times..
Did you have to seal all soffit vents and ridge vents? Ac inside the attic? Otherwise it could cause condensation do to the temp differences wouldn't it? Legit questions
I think you’re insulation videos are great but many of the jobs are best done by a professional with a pretty big upfront cost. I was struggling to keep my house cool in the Florida heat and realized that high humidity was causing of most of my problems. I installed a portable dehumidifier underneath my air handler at the intake and WOW what a difference it makes. The air “feels” so much colder around the whole entire house. 🥶😎
Totally agree.. i did the same thing last year and my energy bill went down half..this method is very affective and you will get your money back within 5 years..
How do you manage moisture and since this is an older vid, have you seen moisture issues on older foam installs. I live in hot humid climate, Houston, and inspect houses for a living and have not seen moisture issues related to foam, except in isolated instances. What is your experience?
By doing this wouldn't you trap the mosture and rot the wood? Are you supposed to vent the roof? Also by doing this you will have extra heat in the winter melting the snow and then refreshing at the edges creating dams?
Conditioning attics with spray foam is an accepted practice in the home energy retrofit industry. If homes are sealed "too tight" we can add mechanical ventilation (ERV's, HRV's or bath fans) as needed to meet any standard for air exchanges that needs to be met. We also will air seal attics at the floor to reduce air leakage into the attic and add Tru-Soft cellulose insulation to R-60 here in the northeast. Our decision to either condition attics or build an aligned, intact and sufficient thermal and pressure barrier at the attic floor depends on many factors, including homeowner preference
Like he said often times ducts and vents circulating conditioned air is affected by the temperature in the attic (IF these ducts run through the attic of course), also attics are normally built ventilated so the outside air is right above your ceiling. In cases where circulated conditioned air is not affected by attic temperature the attic floor will be sprayed instead of the roof deck; preventing air leak and/or heat eascape. (40% of heat lost through roof of homes)
So if I have a one story house, and all vents a d ducts run through the crawl space, would they spray the attic floor or ceiling? Im thinking about having this done. Also do you have any idea what kind of company I would need to contract?
Why the vapor barrier paint is necessary over the open cell foam? Also, I understand that open cell should be used under roof to allow for "breathing"; not to use closed cell in that application. Great video, nonetheless!
open cell is sprayed with a vapor barrier paint because it breathes and doesn't have a vapor barrier where as closed cell foam is considered a vapor barrier after 1 1/2 or 2 inches depending on manufacturer
I keep getting responses relating to the elimination of the condensation issue. I am in complete agreement with that aspect of the discussion, however there is a problem and that is with roof degradation. I know that there are studies out there, seemingly self serving but still measuring nominal heat increase on the topside of the roof. I am not sure as to the actual cause but it seems heat related. This effect is found on Asphalt shingle but I have found a surprising correlation to slate roof premature failure in the field where spray foam is used.
Hi there! I have a vented attic. It hasn't been reinsulated since the 70s. Is spray foam still an option for me? Would you just cover up the vents with the spray foam?
I dont know where these houses with airtight addict are placed, but i guess it is in the USA. I know that the USA is a very large place with many climates, from moist and cold, hot and dry to hot and moist. I live in a 120 years old house in Denmark, and only because its not airtight the construction is as healthy as the day it was cut. For some stupid reason the building codes dictates a very close to airtight houses nowadays. Several contractors and doctors have sounded the alarm bell: The more airtight a house is, the higher the humidity and the lower quality air, that feeds mold and fungis and very quick, relative speaking, degrades the construction of the house. This person advices to completely airtight incl an vaporbarrier your attict, preventing the construction to breath and every drop of watervapor will be trapped in the addict and slowly but surely be soaked up by the construction, while the construction have no where to send it too. Also spraying that insulation fiber, the thing made of shredded paper, is organic material, and in a attic with no circulation, no where to watervapor to escape and with higher than normal attic temperature, you are guaranteed to get mold and rot your construction in a relative short time. I have seen mold form in a 2016 newest standard A20 house attic form in just 8 month, they got rid of the shredded paper insulation and got two airvent in each end of the house, to this day not a particle of mold have been traced, and they checked every three month for two years. And i thought that fiberglass got banned decades ago due to serious respiratory illness, but i guess they have different kind of lungs in the US. This persons advice is very dangerous to not only your family and you, but your home also.
How about long-term experiences ? 20- 50 years? Could it be sprayed on tiles (which may have some holes to the out-side of the roof) ? What cover material? What insulation thickness is required? This technology is quite old, but still has not found mass usage in such applications - why ? Too much moisture because it is air tight ? Cost per m³ - spraying firm included? Which companies do provide this in Germany ? Does it burn ? Dangerous chemicals ? etc etc.
I have one question . Ok open-cell foam is vapor permeable. But is also air permeable or not?? I'm afraid about the condition of the wooden construction of the attic, after 30 years boards and rafters will not decay ? What to choose foam or wood, honestly foam sems to me to be better idea, better properties after years, but what about the wood ?
Fiberglass bats are always removed, asbestos and other proofs are removed as well before spraying to ensure a solid air/vapour seal. Can lights are covered with plastic vapour barriers and foamed as well.
In a situation such as this attic, what kind of insulation if any, would there be in the ceiling or at your feet where standing? E.g. would existing insulation be left as is or removed to seal any can lights etc.? Great video!
my house is a semi detached,do I need to have the both side of the gable wall on the attic spay foam or only the out side wall gable need to spay?Or both side of the gable wall no need to spay?Spy foam with beathable or spay foam need to install with vent card is better? Do I still have a leak once the spay foam in install on the attic?Please help.
what would be the best way to insulate a multi-gambrel house that can't be vented from soffits? would just applying closed cell spray foam between the roof joists be good? What about the flat area of the ceiling above the slanted walls and the knee walls? we want to insulate before replacing all the bad drywall in this 1931 house.
Larry, your comment below answered a question I have been seeking for quite some time. My home, like most in my area do not have soffits and I was looking to use spray foam. Although I will put a ridge vent on this spring when the roof is reshingled this spring. One more question, is it possible to spray in plaster walls if there is a in from the basement? Not sure if there is a flex hose that can be pushed up pre-existing walls to fill the cavity.
Why not use the spray foam on the floor of the attic and not heat the attic with the heat from the house at all? Seems like that is the idea of normal attic insulation, but you say that it's too hard to do. But seems like spray foam would be able to get all the nooks and crannies. They you're not paying to heat (or ac) your attic too! Is this a silly idea?
Question: Are Raft-R-Mates (RRM) installed before the foam is sprayed? If not, the asphalt shingles, if used, will cook and void the shingle warranty. Is there any issue spraying foam over RRMs?
I have a 1.5 story craftsman bungalow with no insulation and an unvented roof. The two bedrooms upstairs are essentially attic space, with an attic crawlspace on both sides of the house, and a small dead space above the rooms. I'm in MO, where we see high humidity, 100 degree summers and very cold winters (it was below zero two nights ago). I'm having trouble finding any info on how to properly insulate this type of situation for both extremes in seasons without causing condensation. Thanks for any insight
Lonnie Sullivan I'm trying to research a similar issue and what I am seeing is needing closed cell foam spray insulation with no venting for the living space.
1.5 craftsman, run 2 inch double foil iso. board, strap with 2x4, longer to create new facia and vented sofit, deck strapping, ridge vent and shingle, creates new vented roof deck!
Have this insulation in my home, however is it normal that they sprayed some of the attic floor? I have it by my AC unit and it is difficult to get to the air filter to change it .
I have a 124 year old house in eastern Canada. The roof is made with milled lumber so has the slight gaps also the eaves where made with no ventalation. I made two vents at the end of each gable roof to compincate . But if i do use spray foam does that make the attic to tight? or is there something else i can use besides spray foam
I live in Northern Indiana. What would the harm be in closed cell foam spray on the roof deck and also insulating the attic floor? Provided the floor was also sealed with foam or a vapor barrier plastic sheet and batt rolls? Also would I want to ventilate or no?
2:32 why install vapor barrier paint on open cell and not closed cell spray foam directly? another question is air flow from soffit to ridge vent block or did you install channel behind spray foam
I am about to build a new home and I am building it on a slab on grade with Hydronic floor heat, nothing but truss system in attic area, would just spraying foam directly to attic side of ceiling be a good idea?
This would not work in Southeast Texas as the attic would not ventilate through the ridge vent causing unbelievable moisture in the attic and thus mold !
Do you ventilate your rooms with a ridge vent? When you seal everything in the attic it behaves the same way as a your closet downstairs. With no humid air getting in there is no reason for mold to grow.
The idea is that during the winter the attic won’t be a place of drastic temp difference thus decreasing the chances of condensation. The same is true for the warmer months.
Can you explain why with spray foam, the roof rafters are insulated? Wouldn't all the heat escape up through the attic floor into the attic, it seems like a lot of energy would be wasted with the heat from the house going into the attic. With traditional insulation, the attic floor is insulated for the reason I described.
Earl Eggert The difference is with traditional insulation you are not getting an air seal, so the air is leaking into the attic anyway. It's less efficient with traditional insulation because the air leaks into the attic and leaves the building through the attic vents. With spray foam the air can't go anywhere once it's in the attic. This prevents the stack effect and stabilizes the air in the entire house. So while the air does make it's way up into the attic with an insulated roof deck, it doesn't really matter because it stops there and maintains temperature.
@August I’m with ya... I’m not sure how a “conditioned” space is sufficient enough to combat natural expansion and contraction. I don’t see it being effective when a ceiling is completely insulated and sealed off.
I seriously have a question how does the roof breathe if you fill the cavities with insulation I thought it was essential for the roof to breathe after roofing for many years I was always told proper ventilation was key to a long healthy roof mold free is this material able to let the roof still breathe question not criticizing truly asking questions there's someone out there have the answer to this I would like to know
Open-cell foam is porous so it's a smart move to use it on a residential home. If you ever had a roof leak, the water would drain through the foam, which tells you that water vapor can also get through, allowing the roof to breathe. Depending on your climate and the efficacy of sealing the attic, a dedicated dehumidifier may be needed in a closed-off attic. One thing to mention. If closed-cell foam was used, it would trap the water and rot the roof before you knew you had trouble. I hope that helps!
Do you apply vapor barrier paint to a closed cell foam as well or is it not necessary because of the closed cells? ... Is this material fire retardant?
32henryj friend had his whole house done they put closed cell in the walls and open cell in the attic , the closed cell would light ,the open would not? think the open they put in the attic would absorb moisture ,
I have an older Michigan house which currently has rolled insulation in the attic rafters falling down and blown insulation on the attic deck completely packed down with open air vents on each side of the house. My mother likes to completely seal up the vents "my money is escaping" and now shingles are curled up! So where would the spray insulation go? Rafters or deck? What happens to the shingles if I close it all off to keep the heat from escaping then I'm going to end up paying for another new roof because of the moisture and heat curled up shingles? If closed foam on the attic deck verses blown will my ceiling drywall get mold from the moisture and lack of air flow? Ready to commit to lower bills but need information and have watched all the videos. So -50 winters to 101 degree summers needs the proper correct insulation formula....
You have to leave the vents clear and open. Fresh air from outside enters the vents under the eves, and escapes through the vents in the roof. You HAVE to have air circulation. That's just the way it is. There is a formula to use as well, beings you need the correct amount of vents in eves, per square foot of attic for proper flow.
+applejacks971 there are 2 at each end built into the building not the roof. If I deal them up as my mother did it will once again damage another roof so then what is actually insulated the attic floor? So then spray foam is not used? We use the attic for storage and she wants to put her office up there so then it must be a conditioned space. How would that all be insulated properly?
I have the end vents as well. Ceilings/floors of houses in my area aren't insulated between stories, as the walls and ceilings of the top level are. Air from the 1st level rises, which heats the ceiling (which is the floor of the upper level) It sounds like you'll be finishing out the attic space, so a licensed contractor would give the best guidance regarding your particular floor plan. Pending if your attic ceiling is angled down to the floor, or straight walls up to the ceiling, how big the space is, will prolly have a lot to do with how everything is finished out and ventilated. Sorry I can't be of more help. It's possible though, just make sure its done correctly. I'd get a couple opinions if it was me
+applejacks971 it's an angles wall peak to floor aka ceiling of he lower level but a huge space. I've gotten several opinions but will do it all myself and one of the reasons I'm watching all the videos it seems to be just a matter of opinion which everyone has however I do want the closest thing to absolutely correct for now and 50 years from now when I will be unable to do it myself. The weather is extreme here and my mothers heating and Ac bills are .....through the roof!!!! Little play on words humor.
I definitely understand. I spend a LOT of time watching videos and trying to lean the best way to accomplish my goal. I take a lil bit from everyone! I hope it turns out awesome for ya. Nebraska isn't to bad, at least I'm not in Duluth lol!
What paint did you use as the vapor barrier? I tried finding someone in my area to spray closed cell on the under side of our kitchen roof but could find only open cell contractors. I now have ~6 inches of open cell on the underside of the decking but it is open cell foam. Can you recommend a vapor barrier paint that is friendly to the open cell foam? Thanks!
Yes, look into "buried ducts". There are things you must keep in mind. Here is a good video about it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YZX5r5ula2s.html
+Cory Gerling You dont have to But At that point The Old Cell is Doing nothing.. Its just give Mice another place to Nest..... Spray the Roof and Get all that Old Dirty Stuff out
EricLDunn Actually Eric many of the major shingle manufactures (like Elk and Certainteed) have tested this system and have found that is does not adversely affect the life of the shingles.
Open-cell foam is porous. If you ever had a roof leak, the water would drain through the foam, which tells you that water vapor can also get through, allowing the roof to breathe. However, if closed-cell foam was used, it would trap the water and rot the roof before you knew you had trouble. With open-cell foam, this is not an issue.
+Matt Greenwood if they have to remove the Wood when redoing the Roof They will have one HELL of a Time lol ... and Yes the Close Cell Foam Is like concrete and Will for sure stick to the plywood
Attics need to breathe as a roofer I can’t tell you how many times a homeowner needed to replace the entire decking because someone sprayed foam on the attic for insulation and closing all air Gaps then all is rotten to the point it won’t accept a new roof, specially in the humid prone states. Better to add electric or solar air vents and air blown insulation.
I just hope that the roof above is not fiberglass reinforced asphalt shingles. If so, that roof is toast. These products must be allowed to transfer heat through and into the attic. That does not make sense either but it is the nature of the beast. Five years - tops and the roof is toast if it is fiberglass/asphalt.
Total BS! That's a myth and there's absolutely no truth to it. Spray foam does not destroy asphalt shingles. Why would it? Making the attic 65dgs in the summer instead of 140 can only help your shingles. They still have the heat from the radiant sun, but at least they're not getting baked from both sides.
77Avadon77 35 years in the business says you don't know what you are talking about. Slate, Tile,Metal - OK, but not asphalt roofing shingles! New Shingles will bake in a short 5-7 yrs. Either with foam or with fiberglass bats, the heat is reflected back into the shingles and they become trapped between the hot sun and the insulating barrier. The shingles are getting baked from both sides - you don't get it. They burn up, plain and simple. I have photos of many of these problems from the field. Just take a look at the manufacturer's specs on shingles and see for yourself regarding insulated decks. Voids roofing warranty for a reason.
No I don't get it, because it's totally untrue. It's a false meme running around on the internet by roofers wanting to scare homeowners into getting new shingles, people have been fiberglassing and foaming the roof deck for decades now without adverse effects. I googled it too, the myth of an insulating roof deck ruining shingles is totally untrue. I know it's untrue because I have a spray foamed roof deck. My shingles are fine, and I live in the high desert, one of the sunniest places on earth with very high temps for half the year. How would they be getting baked from both sides? LOL!! That doesn't even make any sense!! The insulation stops heat from one side. At best you could make a ridiculous argument for heat on one side, which they would get whether you insulated the underside of the roof deck or not. I'm not taking your word for it when thousands of experts say your wrong with just a quick search in google as well as my own personal experience with it.
Well watch your roof degrade. Asphalt shingles and especially fiberglass based shingles which only contain the adherent asphalt, without the base being saturated in the manufacturing process, must have heat pass through them and into the attic. I am no longer an advocate of asphalt shingles even though I installed them for many years. I have seen this first hand. Check with the manufacturers; Check my own website under asphalt shingles: www.fourseasonsroofingandsiding.com/asphaltshingles.htm . Before the internet was, I witnessed this firsthand. Why do you think that ventilation is pushed by the manufacturers? It is because reflecting the heat back into the shingles will bake them. Fiberglass shingles will develop striations and then cracks. They will no longer bridge the thermal movement of the roof deck becoming brittle and cracking along the sheathing joints prematurely. I have seen this happen with new roofs of only seven years of service. Quite possibly you can incorporate a baffle along with continuous intake and exhaust venting with holes at valleys and skylights, etc. Become an expert at this and sell value! Realize the truth instead of becoming entrenched in a wrong method. That is my advice to you. I hope you can take a look and see the error of this type of retrofit.
***** Keep parroting false information and we'll leave you in the wake of dinosaur builders who did things the old, substandard ways. You're logic doesn't even make sense. If an attic is 140dgs in the summer (very common) shingles would be getting baked from both sides and expedite curling, cracking or striation. Now if we remove the heat from the backside by foaming the underside of the roof deck, the shingles only have to reflect the heat, which is a much easier job then being heated by both sides. Manufacturers are now finally agreeing that foamed decks are meeting and even helpful to their warranties You're really living in a fantasy land of opinion and conjecture. No scientific facts back up your claims! None!
Habacuc Garcia - not a expert. Just doing tons of research myself. What I saw somewhere else is that you sort of cover the vent with a baffle and spray behind it. There’s a RU-vid on it.
Oh, 40 yrs of running an insulation company. Stick with cheaper fiberglass and cellulose to your walls and ceiling of living area. Make sure you have high efficiency furnace and AC designed for the correct sq. footage of your home and only do this if it is still not comfortable in your home.
Or if you are planning to make a living area in your attic, in which case, it is probably your best bet to keep cool in the summer as it has a higher R value per inch.
+Josh Garrett Dewpoint control stops mold and mildew,, not airflow. If the surface temp of the foam under the deck is ambient or close, you have eliminated the possibility of dewpoint. Introducing outside air , to supposedly vent out "humidity" is pointless and counter intuitive.
Supposedly there was a new code in 2018 that calls for a vapor diffusion ridge vent for unvented attics to vent humidity quicker especially in hot humid climate zones. Basically a normal ridge vent but has tyvek over the cut slit then ridge vent cap then shingles. I might have to do this to my foamed house in Texas.
