Would make it less modular, at least production-wise. But! The last "wall" stopping the "daisy-chaining" undead could have some elongation to stop misaligned attempts.
I think that would make them more expensive. It looks like you can just swap out the lever as you want, which doesn't work with your suggestion, because you could just swap the lever to another colour and things would now be massively frustrating, and you'd be ripping your hair out trying to figure out why the blue won't connect to the other blue.
@@seanbrockest3888 There is. It is the certification process that these haven't gone through - which is needed if you want to install them in a home's mains wiring. For the reasons Clive gave, I doubt these would pass. Which makes importation of these legally dubious.
This. Or string dozens in series, put in in an explosion contaiment dish and see what happens by putting unreasonable amounts of current through them 😉
i could see myself using these for audio experiments. they're tooless, unlike soldering XLR connectors or screw terminals that require A tiny screw driver. on top of that they're also cheap and customizable.
@@grants7390 audio on speaker level or balanced line connections would probably be fine, but unbalanced and/or low level connections are pretty risky when it comes to hum and noise.
@@KeritechElectronics like i said "experiments". as in does this have a chance in hell of working. I don't want to put in A tonne of time and effort with screw terminals just for it to turn out there is zero chance of the concept working. although nearly all audio i work with is balanced audio, un balanced isn't as sensitive to interference as people tend to think, as long as this connector along side electrical wiring there is unlikely to be a problem.
These are so close to being fairly cool. I was also reminded of the anderson powerpole action for the plugging two connectors together, though I feel like those make a more solid connection with a lot of copper-on-copper and self-alignment features. Perhaps if they had realized the misalignment problem and extended that end-cap piece to overlap the other side, it'd prevent most misaligned connections. Or an outer shield that also has to be aligned, a bit like the 4-pin Molex. Maybe a fun 3d printing project?
Yep all the need to do was make the Earth moulding unable to enter N or L [ oops already mentioned ]. Also use better materials. I would use them in the workshop but nothing above 7A.
I got a bunch, and they are wonderful for low voltage electronics protoyping situations, also because the not keyed and can be abused becomes a benefit. But I'd also never consider putting more voltage than I can touch without worry on them. Wouldn't even consider letting them anywhere near mains. (And I wouldn't even use them in anything that would ever be used while I'm not present...basically a clippy breadboard in my head.)
The Anderson versions have a steel spring backing the contact so "pushing past the bump" does not compromise the contact pressure, and indeed the wiping action is part of the self-cleaning property of the Anderson.
@@Woffy. The problem with that suggestion is that they'd have to design and produce a second body part, diving up cost. Just having a longer end cap for the stack means a bit more material, but the cost of that is almost negligible in comparison (and you only need to carve out a bit more of the mold, which also isn't particularly costly).
Reminds me of Anderson connectors, which I've grown to despise due to a past job. They have many of the double edged drawbacks of modularity as well, and it caused me no shortage of tinkering to keep equipment working
I've worked at a major electronics retailer in Australia. The amount of people who came in complaining about Anderson was never ending. There honestly terrible for what there usually used for, outside of vehicles with no weather protection. Unfortunately there's nothing as cheap and available as them.
Sometimes I am very glad that so much is regulated by a strict standard (in this case the VDE standard) in Germany. Many thanks for this, as always, deep and comprehensive insight.
I would use them for 24 volt heating connections, they would be very handy for these type connections. However, I would not use them for high voltage or high current applications. With a bit of improvement, they would be very useful, but limited at the moment. But that is basically what you said anyway.
Hi Clive, the connection mimics the Anderson high current DC connectors (of various sizes), which do work quite well at currents up to and over 100A. The capture clips certainly aren't high current capable, though. Thanks for the video!
You are probably talking about a connector from a real brand and not a Chinese counterfeit, with questionable dimensions, tolerances and no certifications according to our Western European North American standards and laws. This is to keep electricity safe.
The dumb thing about the "offset" problem is that if they had actually made the cover plate at the end longer, so it extends down the edge of the plug connector, it would actually prevent you from being able to connect them up in an offset way. They apparently just never actually thought of this or how to protect against it. These could be cool for lower-voltage low-current applications, but I don't think I'd trust them with mains voltages (even in the US) or with anything more than an amp or two of current. The overall idea is kinda neat, but the implementation just seems like it may not have been through the amount of refinement and testing really needed for this sort of a product in that sort of application. As you quite correctly pointed out, one of the really good design features of the WAGO connectors is that the contacts are designed to "fail closed", so it is actually the natural state of all the metal components to hold tightly onto the wire (and you must apply force _against_ the spring to open them). This means even if the plastic bits of the connector fail (or even melt) it will still continue to hold onto the wire securely anyway (there are actually a few videos where people have pumped way more than the rated current through them, and all the plastic around the connector basically entirely melted, but it still maintained good electrical contact anyway). These connectors rely far too much on their plastic bits for actually exerting necessary forces, and plastic under stress can fail or deform for many reasons (sometimes not even if it's overloaded, if for example it just gets too old, or too warm, or too cold, or comes in contact with the wrong things, etc, etc). No good electrical connector will ever be designed to rely on plastic under constant force for its proper operation. Doing so is a huge red flag.
Interesting connectors. Probably fine for tinkering, but no way I would use them in anything permanent. Glad your doing these connector type vids as I have been adding to my collection and I trust you to steer me away from the garbage. Thank you!
I believe the technical term is "hermaphrodite connector". I agree with the others here that we need to see what these do with 32A going through them (and preferably 4mm^2 wire, so the wire isn't the weak point).
I could see these being useful in low voltage applications, such as working with microcontrollers, where a failure isn't going to cause a fire. Cool, cheap connectors for projects where a breadboard is too small and you need to make some connections :)
I Love your in-depth analysis into these kind of things, "things" that would be a "tempting" purchase for some (maybe due to price or apparent function)... but as you state, they're (and as they most definitely ARE) un-predictable... They should, likely be (very much-be) avoided...
I think it could be safer if the earth modules had their connector mirrored, providing a key and making it very unlikely that a current wire be conected to earth. Doesn't stop L/N swapping, but if the recommended layout is separating L and N with an earth it would be mostly avoided.
Because opposites will be mirrored, plugging two identical power sources together with the yellow earth keyed would still mate, yet short live to neutral twice as solidly as the plug can normally connect! A keying that has one plug upside down would avoid that and also allow a simpler shape of the bronze spring plate .
I think the end plates should extend and be made in a way that if you misalign the connectors the end plates interfere. (Please contact me directly for my royalty cheques).
The could easily add a "key/finger" to that closing plate that you put on the final position of the stack to eliminate the misaligned insertion issue. But, as many others have commented, I'd really like to see some current/temperature tests on these things.
Yup, the mis-aligning risk could be _lessened_ if they made the end plates stick out next to the non-directional plugs. That way, you could only offset the assemblies in a _single_ direction. And to mitigate the risk from that, it would just be enough to always put the incoming live and the ground that goes to the machine onto the connectors that would remain unconnected. (And by elimination, the neutral wire would go in the middle. ) You just have to be able to trust that what you call "live" is indeed the wire that carries a voltage with respect to ground.(*) (And as long as the incoming/outgoing cables are wired into their intended sides of the assembly.) In fact, I think this order should *always* fail safely, even if you shifted the connection one place in the other direction (as long as the appliance doesn't have a fault). (*) Another reason not to use these for any place where some other electrician can get their unqualified hands on the system.
The hermaphrodite "bumps passing in the night" technique for mating contacts is what Anderson use for PowerPole and other connectors, which go up to 350A (if I remember correctly). Advantages are that parting/mating them scrubs them across each other, doing a bit of cleaning, and by the initial contact/last break being on the forward faces, but the live connections on the rear faces of the bumps, means that any arcing won't be on the surfaces carrying the live current - not that you're supposed to mate/separate them when live, but people break rules 🙂
I use wago 734’s for that type of application. It works about the same except you use a little tool as a lever instead of the lever being a permanent part of the connector. You can pull them apart and snap together more slices to change the number of pins if so desired for the female connector, but the male connector cannot be easily modified. UL rated for 10 amps (300v).
Thank you Clive for another practical and interesting investigation. I'm happy to stick with Wago since they're cheap enough, even packed in small quantities in the DiY store nearby to us in France.
On the modularity aspect: it seems you can pre-fabricate cables with eg three leads, and then combine one end into a bus by peeling off the lid and joining multiple connectors. Useful.
On AEG power tools, the 18V and 14,4V batteries are different in length. The connectors are literally identical, BUT... The "rail" that guides the battery connector to the connectors on the tool is simply longer on the 18V (or 'elongated' if you will). This very simple difference results in the 14,4V battery comnectors not reaching an 18V receptacle (because the 'recipient rails' it slides into are longer). And an 18V battery connector can't reach a 14,4V connector because the rails on the 18V battery are too long for the 14,4V recipient. (Fits like a glove, but reaches the end before the connectors can mate) Such a simple an elegant solution, I feel. As per THIS connector shown in the video; there could be 'crossbars' between the female connectors - one at top side, one at the bottom side (and mirror image thingies between the male connectors) that would only allow them to connect when all 3 pins line up
I think the simpler fix for these modular connectors being able to be connected out of sync with each other would have been to have each color key differently. Meaning that they come in pairs and the connector rod has a particular shape that can only push into its partner that it's paired with. Similar to how power connectors on a typical PC are keyed. So in this instance with three pairs of colors you can have One completely circular one completely square and one half circle half flat like a dome. This way when you try to fit them back together they should resist plugging in to things that aren't keyed to its mating pair.
Exceptionally good advice. I would be interested to see what would happen to the plastic if you put a soldering iron tip near it. Some plastics have a higher melting point and I could bet that wago ones offer better high temperature tolerances.
I really worry about the popularity of these wago knock offs. They are fine for low volt projects but I'd never trust them for mains. I know most of them have been tested as good enough, but I worry about the consistency. Modern load centers should protect most people but these could get burn your house down sketchy in older homes. Like you said, there is zero chance of 32 amps going through that without it spontaneously becoming a heater. I also dont like the idea of these being plugable for mains for the reasons you mentioned. Imagine pulling a motor with a load and catching the arc with your finger. Ouch. I'm sticking with the name brand wagos and ideal connecters for my mains projects.
I think I'll just stick with the "bee sting" wago clones I have, the ones with the thin levers that snap down so hard that if you've left a finger in the way, it feels like you just got stung by an angry bee... :P
I’ve been using some Wago clone connectors in the building of my 3D printer. They are modular like these in that they may be connected together in order to create any number of wires connector required but they don’t disconnect in the middle. The hole to test the connection with a multimeter is in the middle of these. For permanent connections I’m switching the Wago clones to the heat shrink wrap with solder in the middle and for non-permanent connections I’m using JST XH connectors. Connections to/from the power supply are done with spade terminals or disconnects. Except for a fan or two, which are 5V, everything is 24V after mains electricity goes into the power supply. The Wago clones are great for quickly setting up tests before finalizing everything.
A very interesting insight indeed. I have been contemplaing these kind of connectors in vehicle electrics but dismissed them as I wasn't sure about their connection resistence and the amps they can take. A "meltdown test" would again be interesting here.
Clive, They sell something similar to that in the US that is used to repair a damaged cable. It will actually allow the repair to be done in a run of cable that has no slack and without a junction box. It is the only one I know of here that allows a joint or splice outside of an enclosure. It is even permitted to be buried in a wall or floor without easy access. It is, of course, much better designed and made.
You've got a good point about pushing past the optimum pressure point as they click together, but couldn't help but notice, that with the angle of the connector surfaces, there is going to be quite a bit of increased surface area, copper to copper, as it advances beyond the peak pressure point, They may just have had a little bit more insight than were credited for. 🤐
I once removed an old style fuse from the main fuse box under the stairs as I was going to add a new light fitting or socket or something. Anyway,these were the ceramic holders which you laced with fuse wire (a terminal near each end had a screw to hold the wire). The previous homeowner must have been a George Michael fan as he'd left 'careless whispers' of fuse wire sticking out either end... right where I grabbed it. Lordy! We all learnt something that day.
Hi Clive! You'll love WAGO 890-223 + 890-233, I just ordered a 100 of them for work! Technically only allowed for lighting fixtures, but they often come in handy for small mains loads or 24V quick connectors when IP rating is not needed. As you'll see, WAGO have taken care of all the mentioned concerns, because german engineering...
I see now what you meant (in your reply to my comment on your short) about their modularity being more difficult to key, since it can't be done on the prongs while keeping the modularity. But if the end cap pieces were extended to the full length of the prongs, that would prevent offset connections (so long as you used the same number of modules on each side).
This idea of extending the end caps was the first thing I thought of when I saw BC's short video. Another excellent explanation, BC never fails to make everything clear.
Some notes here: The connector part of it where it overlaps and clicks into place it's quite similar to the Anderson powerpole connectors. Not identical, but works on the same principle. (I'm using the SB50 connectors in several places) Each color should have its own keying to prevent the "offset" issue and allow for building truly unique connectors. But they seem to be a nice basic idea though.
Thank you for your thoughts, I agree personal non-plugged sockets only, also plastic and not rated I can understand. I'm having trouble though, since as you state they are modular, that also implies modifiable, so the poor connection aspect should be able to be adjustly bent once and work for Xk # cycles given other things made of copper's ability to bend.
As a concept design, I think these are... interesting. I do like the modularity of each connector, but as noted, some security and rigidity issues need to be addressed. Over all though I would probably use these in low-voltage DC applications such as audio/visual connectors, but even then they lack proper shielding so "cross-talk" over the exposed connectors could very well limit this functionality.
I agree that high current could be an issue. I think it would have been fairly easy to engineer misalignment safeguards. I’d probably only use something like this for low voltage like lighting or speakers. There are definitely better connectors available for reliability. The only reason I see for these is saving labor, which is questionable as a justification.
Among many excellent diagnosis and comments regarding spring contact designs and their engineering is a consideration of what makes a reliable junction … disregarding plating thicknesses, barrier metals and direct but inadvertent submersion in aqueous solutions ( spillage, humidity and sweat for example ) is the concept of a gas tight contact area where the normal force Between the joints is sufficient to prevent atmospheric air to ingress … the contact normal force … the pressure exerted by the mating contact areas … is sufficient to provide contact to contact low resistance over the lifetime of the contact … and to keep air from migrating between the contact surfaces.
Interesting design. I'd imagine you could at least partially solve the misalignment problem by having the cap piece extend into the connector area, similar to a JST-XH style connector, but you would need end caps on each side of each connector. The 32 amp rating is hilariously terrifying though.
They could fix the misalignment issue by keying the different colours differently, so you can't connect a blue to a yellow or brown, only to another blue. The connection from module to module could be fixed by making the plastic connectors themselves click together rather than the metal contacts, so the contacts don't have to slip past their highest spring point. Or there should be some mechanism that applies pressure to the contacts after the connectors click together and they've slipped past each other. As for relying on the integrity of plastic to maintain a good connection, you'd pretty much have to adopt a "Vago" style spring contact, which may be difficult if Wago has patented it (not that it's ever been a problem for the Chinese manufacturers before). Either that or mitigate the problem by using a high-temperature plastic or one that otherwise doesn't soften/deform due to heat. Or you could just spend a little extra for the genuine Wago connector. There's a reason why they cost more, and I suspect if you fix all those issues with the cheap one, they wouldn't be quite so cheap anymore.
There's a lot of potential here, I do like the basic idea. I agree it has a few issues but I believe most of those could have been avoided if the design was only a little different. I also kind of like how the lever works when compared to Wago. On one of these if you've used a wire that's too thin, the lever will give you that kind of feedback because it feels loose. On a Wago connector (I use the 221's, usually) that is spring-actuated and you use the lever to release it. That's the opposite way round, so it always feels like there's tension there even if (actually... especially if) the wire isn't being gripped all that well. Sure, the Wago will keep on going if the plastic has melted, but if things get that far, your connector acting like a fuse might not be the worst thing that happens to you that day.
I also niticed that they are marked 32 A 250V. So they would be unusable on 230/400 V 3 phase circuits(common in most of Europe even for small houses). It might also be 32 chinese amps, maybe 8 real amps.
As someone already said, keying them would make them safer, but you could just key the earth so only earth can be plugged into earth, that will eliminate most mishaps that are dangerous to the user. I've seen American videos saying to wrap electricians tape around the levers on Wago 222s before putting them in a backbox so they don't open (I've never found that legit 222s would open easily, even if they caught on something and you should always pull on the wires after installing to be sure it's done right) so that might work to hold these closed, unless they melt. Changing the lever to make it fail-safe like Wagos would be better. I assume having the lever act as a retainer and not a spring 'loosener' also makes these far less reliable than the Wago connectors in areas with heat cycling and vibrations, probably barely better than the old screw down terminal blocks *after* taping the levers down. Making the connection better when plugging them together is hard to think of in my head and harder to put into words, but an inverse * or + shaped hollow piece of metal that's sloped and flexible enough to deform in one direction or the other may work, add a detent to the ends and a small pip to the tips of each blade in the hollow star shaped piece of copper may allow it to bend the click in place with more connectors than just 1 per wire. Might require a lot of force to push together and pull apart though. Another option is to add a second connector to the side of each one (horizontally and vertically) so you get double the connection area. Or just have them marked A and B for a male-female arrangement. You're always going to use 2 of them together anyway, so making them that way would work. Makes it a bit harder to use them in something where you may want to swap a love one around for different things though, but that would likely only be used in lower voltage hobby stuff.
It seems like the designer could provide end plates which have a locking clip that extends past the connector ends and has a receiving plate with the latch pip that captures the clip. If they were on each side, then the connector could not be assembled offset and there would be some mechanical support for keeping the sides latched together.
Could the manufacturer address the potential for misconnecting the two connectors at an offset by making their "clip on" panel to have a longer piece which goes across into the same space on the opposing connector and only allowing connection where the correct pin is aligned? In some ways I love to see people try to produce a similar project but include their own tweaks and "design enhancements", rather than just trying to produce a rip off version of an existing product but cheaper and almost always inferior. I guess that sometimes the evolution is an improvement, other times it's dangerous and you have to look carefully at each product version . Thanks Clive, very informational video as ever.
An extended end plate would only stop misalignment in one direction . If system is redesigned to always have live on left, the end plates would be on the same side and collide .
My God man You put the R in Rembrandt. Pure digital, high gloss, rasterized excellence & goodness Just saying. Now I need a cigarette! And oh yeah. Another GR8T video! But don't let that go to your head
I bought a dual version for quick connection for my fish tank lid, so just for 12DC. What he didn't mention is the plastic parts, at least on mine come apart real easy. I wouldn't put 110v AC on them if the house was turned off.
This connectors are designed for attaching to PCB, so responsible unit should have solderable pins. Instead of solderable pins it has wire connectors on responsible unit. The idea was that furniture installers will connect integrated kitchen appliances without damaging socket cables. However only whirlpool uses such type connectors, other brands still manufacture connections through box with screws.
Interesting concept. Looks quite flimsy on the negative side. Seems very handy for quick prototyping on the positive side, e.g. in a project where you haven't quite decided what types of connectors you will use and you know you will need more than a couple of types. I'd consider them for low voltage and low current (both conditions met at the same time) applications. I don't like the fact that the spring is not permanently connected to the bar conductor and that its tiny pivot is made of plastic They don't look like they would last for decades in a permanent installation. Perhaps in a low voltage, low current installation that might be acceptable in certain cases, e.g. a small, low-powered battery toy.
They look pretty nice, though that rating of 32A on the side is a bit optimistic! With any of these kinds of connectors I'm only tempted to use them for low voltage stuff, or for temporary connections.
Household mains AC is low voltage (< 1000V AC / 1500V DC). I certainly wouldn't be pushing more than say 3A through these; they're good for lighting maybe and that's about it.
The connector tab looks very similar to those on Anderson Power Poles, which are rated for 30A when paired with appropriate wire. Going past the peak is a good thing. When they slide together, it provides a wiping action to clean the contacts, and the two sloped sides give a much larger contact patch than the peaks would.
The one major difference though Anderson connectors have an additional piece of spring metal under the connector which ensures it is always pushed tight against the other mating surface
A Wago, Phoenix and an Anderson Salesman go into a Bar, they discuss their products. Wago: our spring loaded clamps have a nice lever to use without tools but they arent flexible Phoenix: our SC2.5 and SP2.5 spring loaded modular connectors are incredibly flexible to use. They can even be keyed. Anderson: our connector may need tools and is not very flexible but we only keed the shell and 2 connectors which saves a ton of money for production and logistics Some Chinese businessmen on the next tabel: Write that down, wrote that down
A lot can be said to buying your electrical needs from a local supply shop where all the regular sparkies go, as they will only be stocking approved products, then maybe picking up some more online once you know this particular product is ok in your area.
I think they would be good for messing around at the work/play table. I work/play with 40 -12- 9 or 5 vote 90% of the time and these would be so much better than doing the single twist to hold the wires for a few min testing,
