Hi Vince! What a tragic tale to have to tell. My heart goes out to the family of this little girl and all that were and still are affected by this horrible crime. I would like to start off by giving a little bit of cultural background involving the time frame of this case so that maybe our younger viewers might understand what was happening in our society. From about the mid 1960’s till about 1983 or so, was the time frame of what is known as “Generation X” today. This generation was the time period of the “latch key kids.” Both parents would be working full time jobs as the value of the American Dollar was the lowest that it had ever been. Consequently, many children were unsupervised or there were alternate methods of supervision put into place for the kids. The problem with this “culture” is that there were many instances where children were making adult decisions. It did however, make Generation X a very independent group of people. By the time of this case, (1989?), many parents were starting to see the vulnerabilities their children were subjected to via parenting. Parents became much more cautious of where their kids were and what they were doing. As Vince pointed out, many programs were developed to help parents try to keep their kids safe. “Stranger Danger” was a leader of these programs. As the years past, other programs would be implemented in addition to “Stranger Danger” to help decrease missing persons cases. With all the above stated, I think it is important to note that our victim was 10 years old at the time she went missing. Try to imagine a 10 year old back in 1989. There were no cell phones. Pagers would not come out for a few more years yet. Computers were in a very infantile stage and internet was “dial up.” It was a much simpler time and information was not widely available or shared like it is in current time. When he examine all this, along with the family dynamics of this young girl, does it seem so strange that this young girl could be deceived? Whoever is responsible for this young girl’s abduction is experienced. I will give an analogy from my own life experience in the military. Before any mission that we performed overseas, there was always reconnaissance performed on the target before the mission began. This required a series of different ways of collecting information about your target, so that you knew what to expect when performing the mission. I see this abduction as being no different. Whoever committed this abduction took the time to collect information about who Amy was, who her mother was and to find out what their phone number was. This person, (much like a con artist), had enough personal information about the target to make her feel at ease. He is an organized offender who probably was prepared in many aspects of what he wanted to accomplish and how to work his plan out. I believe that it may be possible that this offender may be working in a group or solo. The evidence in the crime could possibly point to either. I believe the school teacher is a VERY strong suspect just based on individual behavior- post crime. Who do you know that just quits their career, packs up and disappears for 6 months, only to be found later in a homeless shelter in Florida? Very strange. I wonder if detectives couldn’t do some passive surveillance on some of these key people and perhaps get some DNA from a cigarette butt, a straw from a discarded drink or likewise method in which to narrow their search down even further? It would be interesting to find out. Well Vince, I am afraid that is all I can offer up. I pray that the person responsible for the death of this young girl is brought to Justice. I appreciate you bringing this case to the forefront. As usual, you always do an excellent job.
Wow Doc! That was well reasoned! I was thinking many of the same things you are. Except it really bugs me that Amy met the man at the mall with her friends there, and nobody said Mr. science was there. Amy told a friend it was moms co-worker she was new and I don't see a reason she would lie. I think he is likely involved, he's just like a beacon of guilty behaviours, but it most likely wasn't him meeting her that day at the mall. I suspect the pedophile ring is actually a strong possibility, and Mr Science may have been a member. Normally I think answers like that are flights of fancy, but there actually was one in the area at the time. Whoever it is, I'm hoping DNA gets him while he's still breathing and can face justice.
Doc as usual another great summation and sharing of your knowledge and experience I so appreciate your comments. Of course you are absolutely on target about how this predator obviously operated. Well researched and conniving enough to separate this young lady from the safety net she may have thought was around her. I can only hope that when DNA technology advances that they are able to use what they have to finally solve this terrible crime. I do agree with you that they should be (and they may have already done so) gathering the DNA of every potential suspect so that when the best information is available, they can include or rule out whoever may have been involved in this sweet young ladies homicide. Thanks again for sharing your wonderful and thoughtful comments on this very sad story.
His comments are so great aren't they? I agree with you Shannon. I hope one day the DNA technology advances to the point where this case can easily be solved. Much appreciate your thoughts and input on this story.
Well, he's local. And if he's got the confidence to pull this off and keep trophies then it ain't his first time. So who left the area and where did he pick up again?
Thank you Britt, he sure does seem like a strong unsub, but after learning more about this story other potentials have me thinking too! Thanks for sharing your thoughts so appreciated.
Thanks for the video. I watched this one within a day of release, but I've been puzzling over what to think of this video. A few thoughts come to mind. I generally put a lower data quality on tips from exes. Even if the ex is honest, exes often see their exes in the worst light. They may interpret things in the most negative way because they now see their ex negatively. Someone seeing an ex as a potential killer is the ultimate confirmation bias. Even her memory of his call could be a memory of a discussion on a different night. Her memory of his being gone that night could be shaded by her belief that he's a horrible person anyway, so a night when he didn't come home had to be the night when Miss Mihaljevic was murdered. When exes are less honest, they may concoct these kinds of accusations to be vindictive. That the guy owned a car that could match the fibers is a reason to be suspicious. That his answers were odd thirty years later is weaker evidence to me. I certainly agree with investigating this man, but I can't say that he's a great suspect. I see where the science teacher would be seen as a great suspect. On the other hand, he seems too unstable to have gotten away with murder for all of these years. Many science teachers have the right degree because they passed college classes at the bottom of every curve, but they are not people of great scientific minds. That he was a science teacher doesn't make him more likely to have been able to get away with a crime. That he ran away and ended up homeless doesn't point to his being a mastermind of anything. Again, I agree with investigating him. I don't know whether he's really the killer. We don't know enough about the guy who chased James Renner to know whether he's a good suspect. Again, I can see why James Renner would think the worst of the guy. His bias against the guy is perfectly natural and reasonable. However, the bias is still a bias. The idea of a pedophile ring is interesting, and I can see why this fits. Pat Brown, the famous profiler, tends to dismiss organized rings as the perpetrators of crimes against kids from good families. Even with the upheaval, Amy Mihaljevic seems to have come from a good family. In Ms. Brown's eyes, this would make Amy Mihaljevic an unlikely choice because her loss would be noticed and more emphasis would be put on solving the case. The other side of this coin is that maybe pedophiles develop fixations in the same way that anyone else does. In that case, maybe the risk of taking a child from a good family would outweigh the risks. Maybe a member of this group would still rather go after Miss Mihaljevic than to pick up a random runaway in Cleveland. I don't study pedophiles, so I can't say that this construct must be true. I don't know. However, I could see members of this kind of group working together. Maybe the science teacher was associated with the group but not a leader. Maybe they used him to decoy her but hadn't told him all that would happen. In that case, maybe he left town because he "knew too much" and was afraid of being killed. Maybe the murder unbalanced him so that he left town. I can't really pick a most likely scenario here. The pedophile ring will almost never be the simplest explanation, but that doesn't mean that these rings don't exist and don't kill children. The other suspects seem great as suspects but maybe seem too stupid to have committed these crimes as they are described.
Thanks for another excellent video Vince!! I really enjoy these longer videos and the detail in which you cover these cases!! It’s appreciated bro!! I also feel so sorry for that innocent little girl. Preying on an unsuspecting and helpless child like that is the definition of pure evil. Just sick man. Take it E z Vince, I’m looking forward to your next video!! 🫡
Jamie, you rock, thank you so much! I so enjoy creating these videos for viewers like you who appreciate what I share. This kind of story is maddening to me because of how an innocent is preyed upon and then having their life cut short and why, I can't comprehend this...I am already working on the next one and I hope you continue to enjoy the stories I bring to the channel. Thank you so much!!!
This is one of the best presentations on this case. As I recall, 3 or 4 girls in total were called with the buy-a-gift-for-mom ruse. Also as I recall, all but one of the girls could be connected to the science center or the horse stables. If I am correct, how does that one girl fit the pattern? Considering the suspects, how might she have been selected? Or is she an outlier who has a more direct contact with the predatory creep? Another interesting point is, how did the creep know girls' moms worked? It's not like all the moms worked at the same business. A number of women are still stay at home moms. I think if a large number of girls had been approached with the creep's offer, some would have come forward to say they were called but their moms didn't work outside the home. Further, the creep seemed to know when to call the girls' homes so that they would be available to talk. What could be the common denominator?
@@oddmysteries-stories There is another story from that time which was read from a newspaper article on other videos. Before Amy was abducted, it might even have been the summer before, a girl had received some of these calls. One day there was another call when the girl was home alone with her brother. The caller announced his intent to enter her house. As I recall, she and brother locked the doors and windows and she let the creep know she had called police. I think they had not actually called police but subsequently called the mother who was at work. He scurried away, again as I recall, in a white(?) pickup truck parked down the street(?). This is not frequently covered in a general rundown of the case. Or, if this incident happened as reported, police considered it too far removed in time from Amy's case. Nevertheless, it could mean something, especially if there was a ring of creeps operating in the general area.
Since Amy thought this was meant to be a surprise for her mom, she may have decided to it was OK to relax the code word rule. He couldn't have known the code word because he obviously wouldn't have been sent by a parent. Otherwise it wouldn't be a surprise. So she took a chance that it was legit. Science teacher is a good suspect. But the shopping center man was described as having dark hair, I believe. I think science teacher has lighter hair.
Great points. I haven't really decided if any of these people mentioned have more credit than any others. But the pedo ring, I am now learning is a possibility. Thanks for commenting on this sad story.
Seems like we've got three great suspects. I tend to go with science guy, but it's iffy. Sure could use some new leads. So sad. My heart breaks for the family and for Amy 😢
Agreed Michele, there are so many strong possibilities in this case. But I do hope that one day the culprit is caught and the family receives some justice for what happened to poor Amy. Thanks so much!
Like 99% of abductions occur by relatives or close fruends family....NOT strangers. 1) kid eyewitnesses said it was her father. 2) the blanket was covered with dog hair of her dog. The mjakivics let their dog ride in the car, a blanket for the dog to lay on would be covwred with dog hair. 3)mark had a cell phone in 1989 and could make calls from anywhere, including the odd call to amys mother with amy telling mom shes fine.
Not so sure this was a complete stranger to Amy and her family. And not so sure this crime was committed by one single perpetrator. Crimes with the similar element of a phone call ruse have often had a pair of accomplices, one being the mastermind and the other being just the voice on the phone.
Heather I have family and friends that live very close to the area where Sue lived and this story happens. I certainly have this story on my radar, along with Brandon Swanson. I may just do them both back to back. Uff da what stories they are you betcha.
My deepest sympathies to the family, and to Amy. How heartbreaking for them this must have been and must still be. I need to rewatch this, something is bothering me but I can't quite pin it down. Thanks Vince!
The science teacher! Wouldn't Amy's friends have recognised a teacher from their school if Amy was with them at the mall? Why wouldn't she say she was meeting Mr Science Teacher? After researching carefully, I think the pedophile ring may be the answer. Normally I find answers like that to be sensational nonsense, but in this case it seems likely. There's a missing link in the chain of contact somewhere that will explain things. It just seems like more than one person was involved, or that town was simply filled with the kind of people who have secrets and shady pasts. It almost seems like a group of perverts and creeps all congregated and settled there.
I'm stuck on the fact that it it was the science teacher she met that day, wouldn't the friends have recognised him? I rarely agree with sensationalist type answers like a pedo ring, but I think that's it in this case. Perhaps several or even all the suspects were involved. And I gotta say, that guys mug shot?! Wow.
Wow, sounds like there were some pretty strong suspects in this case..maybe police didnt have enough evidence to arrest someone or theyre thinking they should look in a different direction. The child pedophile ring would not be a stretch at all. This type of activity is probably more common than many people realize, its just such a horrible and monstrous thing that people struggle, understandably, with the thought that there are people who could commit such atrocities towards children.But its happening all over the world. I feel like in this case the abductor may have been somewhat familiar with this girl, but whats throwing me is that other girls were called as well. So Im not really seeing a 'personal' fixation with the victim. Someone was definitely hunting these girls though. All of the theories are strong and I truly hope theres a big break in this case. Thanks for another great breakdown of an unsolved case👍!!
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I do try to capture as much information as is reasonable to include in the stories. I sure appreciate the acknowledgement of those details. It's very sad that Amy became so vulnerable and ended up dead. I hope one day her family and friends find the justice they so deserve. RIP Amy.
It's so sad that this case couldn't be solved. It's odd how a school teacher would all of a sudden leave his career and steady income and take off to Florida. It just seems weird to me. I read too that Phil Torsney, who was a very well known FBI agent, and one of the first of the 50 that filtered into the Bay city area, came out of retirement in 2013 to go back on the case to try to help solve it once and for all. He said in all the years and all the famous cases he was involved in, including Whitey Bulger, Amy never left his mind. Sadly it looks like it didn't matter, because it has yet to be solved.😞
The State of Ohio convicted a 15 year employed Berea junior high school teacher 1974-1989. In February of 1989 Barry Zwiebel was convicted and sentenced to 8 1/2 years for sex crimes against students. In June 1989, the state of Ohio early released Zwiebel to the city of Westlake, bordering Bay Village. Is the state of Ohio intentionally not solving Amy’s case because investigating Zwiebel if found guilty would reveal the state of Ohio’s early release was key in causing Amy’s abduction and murder? He was free & looks like the police sketch . Why wasn’t an early released sex offender investigated in the original investigation anyways? It is Suspicious.
Very interesting details. I wasn't able to find anything about these details in my research, but you may in fact have identified a very plausible suspect. Thank you so much for sharing this information with us, much appreciated.
@@oddmysteries-stories several years back his criminal records disappeared from the Cuyahoga Clerk of Court records. I took a picture of the criminal case record before that happened.
@@DONNACEDOHIOK12 That's very interesting information. Why were his records scrubbed did something happen to change his conviction? Thanks for sharing this information with us.
My take is a state cover-up in my opinion & I allege the state of Ohio intentionally leaves Amy’s case unsolved. For the state to investigate Zwiebel the evidence proves him guilty, would reveal the state of Ohio early released Amy’s murderer to Westlake in June of 1989 when he otherwise would’ve been serving an 8 1/2 half the sentence for sex crimes and good students. That investigation would lead to new discovery in Zwiebel 15 year employment at the Berea City school district.
4:15 Maybe Speitzel was the guy all along 9:10 I would highly recommend writing more succinct script lines. Some of these detailed sentences are so outlandishly structured I've had to rewind the video and listen more than 3 times just to understand what the F you're trying to say
Interesting factoid to your question. As a Great Lake state, Ohio has 312 miles of shoreline along Lake Erie. It is estimated that over 2,000 ships have been lost (sunk) in Lake Erie; nearly 600 are believed to be in Ohio waters. So while possible, it's not an easy crossing. Hope that answers your question.
@@maureenarmstrong5441 Two things, the person had to be someone Amy knew and trusted. Calling internationally from across that lake wouldn't make sense, along with making the treacherous crossing for this type of crime. Thanks for suggesting this, but it's really not plausible in this story.
@@oddmysteries-stories Never leave any stone unturned; I find children very trusting but then I have a friendly persona and work with children so to any child even a stranger like myself may appear okay; in those days the telephone book easily made Amy vulnerable to anyone Mom or Dad met unless their number unlisted which I doubt. This story really is troubling as area is small, and if profile indicates someone known then it would seem plausible to unravel the mess. I have heard of dieing from broken heart and the spirit shrivels. Ask Stephen King about his latest "Holly" as he said himself he had no idea about the evil embedded in older folks. I began to doubt their profile as accurate based on one phone call harassing nut. Thanks for exposing the details. I remember the case of Adam, and son of FBI agent who began the interstate searches, and son snatched in dept. store by excon. That story haunted my Canadian suburb.
"Stranger Danger" is an utter disaster devised by TV personalities. From personal observation, it either terrifies children so much that they are horrified by anyone outside of their families. (I am sure this is very convenient if there is SA going on in the family.) For average kids, what constitutes a "STRANGER"??? From early years, children meet and accept strangers because adults say it is OK. Pre-school and first grade teachers. Pastors, police, librarians, babysitters...the list is long. SO....OF COURSE.....creeps know how to evade being classified as "STRANGERS"! Just say you are a distant relative just arrived to visit the kid's mom and dad. Maybe you are the brother of a favourite teacher. Or an assistant for the scout leader... Create a connection and most kids won't think you are a "STRANGER"! Meanwhile, in the real world, I have read of two cases where children, lost in the woods with their lives in peril, EVADED RESCUERS for hours because....well.......the search & rescue people were "STRANGERS"!!!!!! This kind of crap is going to get someone killed! Either a kid will freeze to death in the woods or brave searchers will have deadly misadventures in those extra hours when a brat, fed terror by parents, cheerfully hides from "STRANGERS"! In a personal case, I once lived in a small town and observed the little neighbor kids across the street putting a toxic plant in their mouth. I was concerned enough that I stood in the street and kindly spoke to them, asking if they were eating the plant. About that time the step-dad came boiling out of the house, offended that a "STRANGER" would dare speak to his kids. Later it was said that creep stepdad was doing things to the kids and he didn't want his territory trespassed. This was such an unpleasant incident that I decided if I ever saw endangered children again, I'd just call the police & coincidentally report the parents for not watching their kids. I mean only if the kids were in major danger. I'd guess "STRANGER DANGER" has been a disaster for kids and parents and a boon for any creative creep determined to do the unthinkable to their gullible, easy to convince prey. THINK ABOUT IT! Hillary Clinton may grab headlines with, "It takes a village (to raise a child)", but "Stranger Danger ensures that outside of immediate family, the village in popular imagination, is wholly populated by predatory maniacs! I seldom write anything showing bitterness or anger I may feel on a subject. I am angry because I always believed everyone should watch out for children. I am a decent, middle aged woman. Because of "Stranger Danger" I know never to get involved with anyone's kids, no matter what kind of danger they may be in. That's what police & CPS are for! My extreme anger set in when a small child evaded search and rescue for an extra day because, "Stranger Danger"! (I might misremember but something sticks in my mind that this kid had to be subdued in a net.) I have done search and rescue but not for children. I have skills that can be valuable in such a situation but I would never waste my time or risk my well-being trying to aid a brat who has been victimized and terrorized by the TV slogan "Stranger Danger"! I'd guess the majority of the world's population would like to look out for children and aid them in times of danger. "Stranger Danger" makes that impossible! Family against the world...and isn't that convenient when family members are abusers? 😆 😏
WOW Anna, thank you for sharing your experience around "Stranger Danger". I suppose it goes without saying that any seemingly good thing has a downside and I've never considered that when I child goes missing that they may avoid seeking help because everyone becomes a stranger. Great point. I also appreciate your mention of "It takes a village" I have never subscribed to this being of any value. I for one, feel no responsibility for the uncontrollable spoiled brat down the road, that lacks in proper parental guidance and discipline. Maybe I missed the point, this is just my opinion. Thank you so much for bringing out such valuable thoughts around this story I truly appreciate your feedback. Again thank you.
@@oddmysteries-stories Public service/public health efforts frequently lead to collateral damage. I like the suggestion about a password. The poison plant incident angered me personally. Other than that, I am a journalist and an official Ripperologist, having contributed a tiny crumb of original research to the Jack the Ripper saga. There have been some truly awful cases in the UK and the commonwealths. One of the most tragic child cases is that of the Beaumont children, all three taken in one day in Australia in 1966. That was before "Stranger Danger" was a TV catch phrase but the parents had warned the children about strangers and Jane, the oldest girl was very smart and protective of her younger siblings. In discussion groups it is greatly argued how the children seemed to know "The Man" with whom they were so friendly, the man who has never been identified. And I got to thinking, a "stranger" is only a stranger until that unknown person gives a reason why s/he is not a stranger. It doesn't take much to hoodwink a kid. Distant relative. Scout master's assistant. Youth pastor. Friend of mom or dad. Think about it! A friendly demeanour plus confidence and a good line of BS is all that's needed. As in the Amy Mihaljevic case.
@@annalisette5897 All so very true and I suppose that's why we no longer use the term lightly here. IT's not at all foolproof and our children are still being murdered and worse even with that campaign. Thank you so very much for sharing your back ground and experience with me it's truly very interesting. I've never heard of a "Ripperologist" before your mention of it. But then too being here in the states I wouldn't have the same exposure to the term. The gentleman that operated the channel before me, did do the Beaumont children story. I did leave the video up for a while but have since removed it so as not to create confusion with my videos. Thanks again for commenting so appreciated.
@@annalisette5897Good point about the over emphasis on Stranger Danger. Though I think in recent times , because of public awareness of the fact that many child murders are committed by a child's relatives rather than a stranger, investigators look at the parents first of all. In the past the possibility that parents could be responsible for their own child's death was anathema. Sadly experience has taught us otherwise. Childhood is a vulnerable time, who can you really trust ? Back in the 60s, I wonder how far the Beaumont parents were investigated by police? I'd like to know the last time the three children were seen by neighbours and friends, not just by people who didn't know them but saw children that they thought might be them. The mailman said initially that he saw them in the afternoon,alone, RETURNING to their home.
@@lorrainedalgleish7616 It is true that family members are frequently involved in child disappearances, etc. But there are also fiends who simply snatch little kids off the streets. And there are others with elaborate ruses such as happened with Amy Mihaljevic. The Beaumont children were last seen by a clerk who knew them, inside Wenzel's bakery. They bought a quantity of food and drinks and paid with a one pound note which the kids did not get from home. The food items were pasties and finger buns and one of the children said, "And a pie for the man." The one pound note in those days would be comparable to a $20 bill (USD) today. Kids did not have that kind of money back then. Mr. Beaumont was out of town on a sales trip and did not get home until late afternoon. Mrs. Beaumont visited with some neighbors during the morning and afternoon and so was seen in the neighborhood. There was only one vehicle in the family and Mr. Beaumont had it on his sales trip. Tragically there were, near where the Beaumonts disappeared, a number of horrible criminals who targeted children. In subsequent years there were other terrible events such as two girls snatched from the Adelaide Oval and the McKay sisters. There is also the Wanda Beach horror where two teen girls were brutally killed. The McKay sisters were found deceased. In recent times, police charged Arthur Stanley Brown with the crime but he was very old and demented by then. He was unfit to stand trial so he lived out the rest of his days in a nursing home where he died. Despite recent books, Harry Phipps is extremely unlikely to have caused the children to disappear.
