This was a good concept, and clearly presented. Way too many "how much do x get paid" videos spend time on waffle and conjecture. I liked how you layered example ages on each career progression as well.
The figures for lawyers aren’t quite right as you’re not including partner salaries/equity distributions, only associate salaries. If you make equity partner you can expect to earn $2m to $4m per year at a white shoe firm.
Technically nothing wrong since we are simply comparing years after bachelor graduation. $4m in year 20 hugely different vs. $4m in year 15 (in a financial sense).
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Left medicine halfway and switched over to Law, best decision I ever made. Medicine is great but it just takes too long to get settled and build your life, even as a GP. Kudos to the medics who push it through but I couldn’t wait until my 30’s to reach financial freedom.
@@lavaboy1565 I’m in the UK, I dropped out from med at KCL and got in to law at LSE. I believe the process is quite arduous in other countries like the US.
@Quota matlab Chinese quality You need to visit south india,where docs earn minimal pay due to huge number of mbbs seats... And 5 years integrated lawyers earn more than docs,if you get placed at tier 1 law firms.
@Quota matlab Chinese quality Sir, that's why i have mentioned lawyers at tier 1 law firms... Btw,i agree on an average doctors earn more than lawyers. But law graduates at tier 1 law firms and top litigants out earn many doctors..
@Quota matlab Chinese quality 😂Btw,loved your id name... We need to end reservation from india... I'm also a law student, pursuing bba llb from GNLU,i fetched a seat here with all india rank 432 but many students with SC/ST quota got this college despite of having near about 8k-9k rank... And i guess under modi regime muslims have to face more discrimination compared to any dalits... But idk why dalits still rant about caste based discrimination even now...
Dr kim here. lifestyle of some physician specialties is 10x better than lawyer or IB. dermatology is one of the easiest of all doctor specialities. No weekends, nights or call rotations. Also benefits of being a doctor both seen and unseen are tremendous and not accounted for. Lastly the profession longevity and stability is far better as a doctor over both law and IB. one more thing. you can graduate from the bottom half of med schools and still be any specialty you want to be. No need to graduate from a top school unlike law and IB. overall if you pick a medical specialty that pays well plus good lifestyle, its hard to beat
@@mrbzliteyear Listen. some people think conventional wisdom and google makes them an expert. You have no clue. Did you spend 4 years in medical school, 1 year of internship, 4 years of residency, and 1 year of fellowship - 10 year total postgraduate medical training? I did. oh yeah, I went to at best mediocre medical school and ended up at UCSF for my fellowship and fellow grads went to Stanford for extremely competitive residencies, Columbia for plastic surgery, etc. Even a slightly above average classmate who went on to Dermatology which sounds incredible but he just had to work at it (more than most) but ended up in Derm residency in the middle of nowhere (Iowa? Nebraska?) - so there are ways. Hardest thing really is getting into medschool more than anything. But listen when you have hit $10M in networth- come back and talk to me. For that matter, your job does not do that for you. saving, investing is the path to wealth much more than any job. plumbers, electricians, etc anyone can do what I did , not as a doctor but whatever profession they choose. going for these high paying jobs are chasing after the wind if you think it's going to make you wealthy.
@@mrbzliteyear as a fellow asian immigrant (assumption?). i'm more proud of how I took care of 4 immigrant grandparents for the last 10 years. Just last night I told my in laws who were concerned about their giant dental bills ($10,000 between the two of them) that I would take care of ALL future medical/dental bills moving foward. that's the ultimate immigrant's dream. Also,never told you that was my networth. it's growing by the day. Don't assume anything you read. Let me give you a real number. 10 years ago my networth was NEGATIVE $400,000. while raising 3 kids, supporting 4 grandparents, working my butt off as an investor for 8 years is what gave me financial freedom. NOTHING to do with accomplishment from 20-30 years? you are way off. you think i'm 60 years old?? you must be 18 years old then. (exactly, not good to assume things "we" have no clue about).
That’s one speciality. Physicians in general experience just as much burnout. Also even with dermatology, you still have to slave it away in residency where the lifestyle is actually worse. And for the same reason why you’re talking up derm, countless other ppl want to do it as well, making it extremely hard to get to. Once attorneys and IB make partner their lifestyle is not as bad, and that’s around the same time frame as a specialist physician would actually get to start their career (after all that schooling and residency). The only thing I’d say MD has over the other fields is that with MD you can go to any medical school in the US, and you’re essentially locked for a 6 figure job eventually. For IB and law, employers care a lot about prestige, so you have to go to the top law and business schools to get your foot in the door.
The fact that I work far fewer hours than an IB analyst, get to experience a wide variety of projects and collaborate with brilliant colleagues for a little less salary reassures me that consulting was the right choice
I really really really liked the way you broke down the values and explained things. I guess that degree and talent is proving its weight in gold 😂 Any chance we could get a SWE salary vs IB breakdown? Curious to see where SWE lands in the mix.
This was well done although I'll note if you're in the top .25% or so and you're partner at a large firm you'd be making $1-2M a year at least as a lawyer by year 9 or 10 out of law school (with way more upside as you become even more senior) and a bit more as an i-banker or in private equity. Medical doctors don't scale nearly as well, even at the very top of the profession. Thus if you're a top student at a top school and you're mainly looking to make a lot of money, then I'd never recommend going into medicine. Go into medicine if you're passionate about practicing medicine. You will make way, way less than top tier lawyers, i-bankers, private equity principals, etc.
I'm watching this (crying) as a 3rd year medical student lol. Still wouldn't choose a different profession based on compensation, you really can't stress that point enough. Great video man.
@@rareliquid it's definitely worth the "opportunity cost" of choosing the delayed gratification. Hard to beat the feeling of having patients tell you "thank you" for making a difference in their lives.
@@C_LittMD French GP here. What you say is even more true after a few years. Some patients tols me things that even their wives didn't know. Some of then come to see us for advice that are barely related to medecine, but they put our advice above the ones of their friends or relatives. I even have a woman who moved away 50 km (35 miles)and still prefers seeing me than any other doctors while there are quite a lot between my office and where she lives. My totally biaised point of view is even if it's hard, it's the most beautiful job in the world.
having a older brother and a younger brother who became GIs, that number is completely wrong. it really depends where you are, for areas where there is a big demand like GI, you can make a lot of money and work 9-5pm. Cost of Living is low, you definitely will enjoy life. Me working for a top 10 investment bank on the technology side, you definitely don't make that much, not many makes it to a MD level. Plus you are force into living a HCOL area.
@@huitin752 that's an interesting point. I'm going into EM so the job market really hurts those who want to be in big cities with high cost of living. Thanks for the insight though, much appreciated
Not sure about the breakdown when you factor in hours worked, but having previously worked as a software engineer in the same major investment bank as our hero here, from intern to VP, I can definitively say that software engineers in the finance industry make far less than investment bankers. We were still compensated well, mind you, but these banker salaries are seriously staggering. Software engineers at a select handful of high profile companies can make more than engineers in finance, potentially even approaching those mid-tier investment banker salaries for bad ass senior engineers, but the vast majority of software engineer roles pay less than those in the finance industry. In other words, the finance industry pays well, even for tech folks. But even for engineers, the finance industry is often long hours, working in a very complex problem space, and burn out is a real risk. It's less glamorous than it may sound. But the money is good.
@@rdean150 1, vast majority of finance workers in retail banking make way less then most entry level software engineers. Looks like you only consider IB or hedge fund as “finance” industry 2, software engineers in finance don’t get paid that decently, not select handful but vast majority of tech companies offer higher compensation than, let’s say Goldman Sachs or JPM.
@@aspartame_xu My comparison to investment banker salaries is based on the numbers presented in this video, not to just any random retail bank employees. The investment banker salaries quoted in this video are far higher than 99% of workers in any field, in any country, will ever make. As for comparisons between software engineer salaries - you may be assuming that most software engineer roles are at "tech companies". They are not. Pure tech companies pay well, sure, but there are far more software engineers working in other industries, solving problems specific to a given business or supporting legacy reporting systems or migrating customer data to a new database because some paper company merged with some printer company, etc. These sort of jobs are not at "tech companies" and more often than not they do not pay as well as an engineer who builds tools for traders at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan or Blackrock.
@@aspartame_xu But I take your point. There are shit engineer jobs in the finance industry as well. That's surely true. I no longer work at an IB or a hedge fund, but still work in the finance industry and still a software engineer, and I happen to be making far more now than I did at my previous role doing similar work in an investment bank. So I guess it goes both ways there. But the bottom line is that there's a lot of money in the money business, and engineers are valued there. But yeah don't expect a Google or Apple salary if you're applying as an engineer at Morgan Stanley.
I am becoming both Banker and Lawyer. Currently doing undergrad in Business administration with focus on banking and finance. After that I will do Law and an MBA.
@@sebastianpirela7329 Because Finance is little boring and very hard industry, Law is more interesting and easy to work in. Plus having both degrees open new doors like M&A, Corporate Law, Tax Consulting etc these careers need high knowledge in both finance and law.
Clearly had a bias towards I-banking. Assumed the best-case scenario for I-banking. Associates in big law are considered for partnership after their 8th year where their salary goes up to 1M-5M.
Being a successful as investment banker or big shot lawyer, you need connections, it works like Mafia. Where you graduated matters a lot. To be a doctor, where you graduated usually doesn’t matter and you generally don’t need a Mafia like connections.
Law bonus scale is wrong. It’s considerably higher, up to $120K base bonus capped at 8 years (not 10 years). At firms like Latham & Watkins you can earn up to 150% that, so up to $180K bonus at 8years, not $70K. Also after 8 years you can be considered partner, where you start at $1.5m and rainmakers make upwards of $10m/yr.
That's a great comparison there. Please also make a comparison of investment banking career with that of financial auditors, fraud examiners and management consultants.
Korean-American here. I was always good with numbers and wanted to go into a profession where I can make a lot of money without having to go to a lot of school. Thank goodness I found my career in finance
@@annajones9701 if you go in the sales route, yes you are correct. Financial Advisors and Wealth Advisors have a base salary but most of their income comes from fees and commissions. However, there are analyst roles (what im doing) that support the FAs in which youre paid a pretty good salary. But I do want to go into sales eventually because that’s where I can make a lot of money.
Great video as always Ben. Would be nice if you can add the pay for Management Consultant and SDE at big technology companies for a side-to-side comparison. Will be interesting.
@@kanglinan4350 I really want to be a lawyer but i don’t want to work no more than 50 hours. I don’t care that much about the pay. I just want my work to be meaningful and support my finances, that’s it!
@@ela6252 in many cases, it's not i want to work so many hours. It's that i need to take responsibility to my client, some cases may go way more complex than they started. as a attorney, you never know what emergency will happen, especially if you are practicing in criminal cases.
A big difference is you forgot only 5% of the investment banker can make to MD. All doctors can earn that amount of the money you posted. You are comparing top investment banker with regular doctors. If you look at top 5% of doctors, millions of income as well in a very relaxed working environment because they get income through partnership. From a doctor
Lol when you picked dermatologist as comparison. Those folks make quite a bit more compared other specialties. For specialties that pay less, the debt starts to become a much bigger problem. Wife ended up in medicine and I chose to bail out of that profession and am in pharma drug development. Simply put, our household could not afford to have two doctors due to the cost of education.
that's why at the beginning of the video i said i'd be comparing people at the "top" of each field. know derm is one of the most competitive given the pay + work life balance. best of luck to you and your wife though sounds like you'll both be fine eventually
@@SuperBoudoir I agree 100%. While the study drug may be free, all of the standard of care can be expensive for patients. If the drug is working well for you, reach out to your doctor or study coordinator -sometimes the pharma company or the hospital can offset cost (with slush fund) if you ask for it.
@@WoodcraftBySuman Well, I'm in France so I don't have to take in considération the cost of médication. But I've seen a case that really shocked me, I had a patient from central America who had a drug for his prostate. The medium income in his country was 6 times lower than the one in France, yet the médication was 9 times more expensive over there. It was tamsulosin so not something complicated to produce, nor rare. Sometimes it's wild
You should talk about the failure rate of getting into those programs. I knew someone who was only an undergrad at U Chicago and was 150k+ in debt ( not even into the law program), and you guess it did not even do well in undergrad and transferred out.
You didn't really take into account the compensation once a lawyer makes partner which is where they can really leapfrog above an MD in an Investment Bank as they now essentially own a portion of their business.
Doctors can become partners in their own private practice as well making similar money, just depends on if you want to run a business in addition to practicing law/medicine or just work for a hospital/law firm and only worry about your respective work
@@techwerido3625 open your own law firm and get your own clients！ i am currently earning 280k after tax at age of 27. and the income is increasing rapidly every year.
While the numbers look great, I wonder what percentage of analysts can eventually become VP or above? It feels to me there are a lot more old Lawyer or doctor than bankers (i don't know if thats accurate)
I think the consultant's salary progression is similar to lawyers' number-wise. Also, both professions require you to have advanced degrees to progress (MBA or something similar for consultants and JD's for lawyers).
consultants don't require MBAs actually you can straight from undergrad but do agree consultant pay is probably similar. Maybe will have to make that into another video haha
@@rareliquid Oh I meant that it is usually a requirement by consulting firms that their young analysts get their MBA in order to progress to higher positions. So if you were going to make a video on consulting salaries, you would probably need to include the expenses of an MBA. Also, I believe in kchoi's, you mentioned that you were applying to business school, so could you share your thought process behind this decision. For example, some of the pros and cons you considered and if you believe it is actually worth it. Thanks, your videos are the best!
If you compare top 10 consulting firms to top 10 law firms, I suspect that consultants on average make less than lawyers, especially the partners/principals. Consultants of course have a much broader range of exit options though and generally don't work as many hours as lawyers in my experience, although consultants typically have to travel significantly more.
Can you make one comparing CS or software engineering compensation to finance roles like IB PE etc since me and lot of these days are deciding between these two when going to college.
lmao CS/SE is easy and not prestigious there's no comparison with finance! Finance is finance, it's prestigious and highest paying field. You cs craps want to put their nose in everything which doesn't make sense.
@@vumpa3644 big tech is nothing in front of high finance. And also tech is not prestigious at all every second person is studying cs and end up being developer. Finance is the most highest paying thing in the world and besides finance, we can compete it with medicine... CS? i mean lmao it doesn't even make sense to compare them.
The one whose money grows at the fastest rate is the one who makes the most. The janitor will make more than the CEO if his money grows faster and he lives long enough.
Kinda fucked to assume no debt from undergrad for ibankers. Also your Big Law numbers aren't accounting for partnership (which usually happens after Year 8) and typically starts out at $1.25-1.5m total comp. and higher as your firm profits per equity partner increases. Weird that you included the high end of finance bonuses but not the high end of Big Law bonuses.
It sucks that income is not always commensurate with the type of degree one has attained. How many of these banking managing directors have doctorate degrees in finance/banking? I am pretty sure that those analysts who are making a ton of money just have BAs, right? I feel for the doctors, especially during a pandemic. Hang in there docs. Thanks, Ben.
I’m still in undergrad and hope to work in asset management. With that being said I’ve interviewed with a bunch of big firms (JPM, MS, HSBC, etc.) and was fortunate enough to converse with a bunch of VPs and pretty much none of them had anything past a bachelors degree
@@IamDevron a lot of them have to get certifications though, like CFA (which takes 3-4 years on average to get) or CFPs (1-2 years on average) and before that they have to take series exams. And then every 2-3 years, they have containing education. These exams are not easy. So there is an education element.
To be fair, I wouldn't make it a point that the money you earn is dependent on the degree you earn. It should be decided by how much value you create by doing your field.
@@spigbungus very well said , some dropouts are earning more establishing gaints while some people struggle with lots of degrees ... Btw seeing lots of AI evolution what you say which field is getting ahead and which one is getting saturated?
There is one point I do want to correct. That’s the preparing for law school part. Actually law schools like a diverse field of students with diverse work experiences. I even heard stories of how some law schools don’t like paralegals. So people’s pay before law school mostly depends on what they do immediately after college. I know MBB analysts, veteran officers, scientists, researchers, political activists, NGO workers, and many other careers who ended up to law school.
who the hell spends this much? $3000 for rent? Jesus Christ. My salary is peanuts compared to this, but I feel I'm not so far behind on the saving front.
lol wtf? They have to study finance, economics in undergrad then MBA then CFA/CFP etc. And they have skills in EXCEL, financial modeling, planning, presentations and other stuff related to finance..
you guys have it all wrong....be a plumber - no loans and probably takes a doctor until 45 until they get in front of the plumber wealth wise. Its low stress, you get paid to learn and you have a life as you'll be home at like 5pm every night Monday-Friday. With less people taking up a trade they'll only be getting paid more as time goes along
you can't scale in your field you top out at maybe 100k a year if you're in a big city that's it, if you're in finance or lawyer you can scale bring in more clients to grow your business
Heavily dependent on individual situation. I know docs making $3-4M annually. As for your friend he'll be making at least $700k if he works for Kaiser.
Is it really realistic to expect to become a managing director by 37? For CS at least it gets really hard to be promoted past a certain level, is that not a thing in finance?
It's not realistic by 37. Only a few percent make it to MDs ever, the same with CS, 80% of the people stay as individual contributors their whole career. There are hundreds of engineers for every VP... Top investment bankers make millions, but it's just a few percentage of them.
This assumes that you can get to managing director, which is VERY DIFFICULT to do. Same principle for lawyer (surviving all years). Also, lawyer's median pay is way below what is quoted here. In an ideal world, IB beats lawyer or physician, which will happen only for a select few. If you something better, hedge fund or private equity will pay even higher amount than IB. It would be great if you can make a realistic comparison instead.
"A lawyers median pay is way lower" so is an ibanker. He's comparing the tippy top of firms and hospitals with each other. The average ibanker outside of the bulge bracket isn't sniffing this comp
Undergrad pedigree doesn’t really matter much in law school admissions. gpa and lsat are all that matters. Getting into a t14 will give u a good shot at big law.
Interesting to see this. I did see a lot of people who used to be investors and went back to medical schools, and there is a reason behind that. I would say, it is not fair to compare a job at Nonprofit organization to a job specifically designed to make money. Majority of the doctors' jobs are in the univeristy or nonprofit hospitals that serving for patients receiving medicaid and medicare, that changes a lot of the potentials for the doctors to earn more money. Top doctors earn less in this game unfortunately due to the settings of practice and the purpose they choose. However, as a doctor, you save lives and simply helps others, it is worthy of millions of dollars when you knew that you had changed someone's life and someone's life changed because of you. I am sure as a doctor, you will have the moment as well. =)
for bankers, not really. they don't have to get specialized training and put together powerpoints for a living. the other careers determine if a person lives healthily or dies, rots in prison/debt or lives freely without constraint.
You and you friends are completely biased. Here is the right answer so no one has to watch 12 min of nonsense: Who gets paid the most: Doctor > Lawyer > iBanker
Hey there, you kinda screwed up with the Doctor Role. First of all, I am more biased towards the IB side, and it's my dream to start my own Hedge Fund/ PE firm. Yet, there are other positions which has a much greater earning potential in comparison to dermatology. both my parents are doctors, though I should mention that. for example, orthopaedic surgeons and OB-GYN surgeons can bring in seven figures in their 40s if they work in the US, also if they have a strong track record. I do think you should've taken a surgical role as the speciality for the doctor in the video.
they are fucking bottom of the barrel. As a CPA you become an SFA or a controller making $150k max. Rofl after tax take home like 100k ... accounting is a dogshit profession.
