Iron Claw: the crazy truth, the shattered masculinity and the triumph of Zac Efron 

I think the fact that they "moved on" so fast, from the initial David tragedy to the next was to reflect how their father didn't allow them to sit with those complex emotions either, or even grieve, he didn't want them crying at all at the funeral. I think men are expected to not sit with emotions, accept things and move on as fast as possible, and I think in that way the movie nailed it.

I loved the writing of the father's role. The education he gave to his children resembles a football manager's organization. Make a classification of your children, only see them through the prism of their abilities and if abilities are struggling, replace the “defective” or dead child. I also loved that he was so loving with his wife. It was important to see that he is a man capable of love but that his goal of winning was greater than anything. He is not the big bad guy but just a man frustrated at not having been an accomplished wrestler. Anyway, thank you for this podcast, wish you well !

Fella here, I don't have any problem with your discussion around their different body types because I noticed it too - how the four of them had different builds. I think it's a valid discussion for a movie about a family of wrestlers and in real life, they aren't all built the same anyway. I was actually more distracted by why Kevin always wrestled bare foot lol. I also went into this movie not knowing what to expect, I didn't realise there would be so much tragedy involved and I only watched it because so many people recommended it to me. I was taken completely by surprise with this movie and was emotionally invested from the beginning. I think the theme of brotherhood resonated strong with me, having two brothers of my own. I don't care for wrestling in the slightest and a weaker film may have made me lose interest but this movie just had so many gut punches that I was glued to it. I think this movie maybe resonates more with men because of some of the different sorts of pressures that are put on us in life, especially if you've grown up in an atmosphere of being told not to show any emotion. Not many movies make me well up but that last scene where Kevin breaks down and his kids comfort him, really got me good - the tears were flowing. I loved this movie and I would definitely watch it again.

Anyone looking for more on the Von Erichs check out the Dark side of the ring episode on them. The film was heartbreaking but hearing Kevin tell it from his own mouth is just unbelievable.

The actor who played Mike is the standout to me and I’m sad to see him not getting the recognition like the rest of the cast. His story broke me more than any other although they’re all tragic. To not want to follow the family legacy….be forced to and then essentially die from it. His performance hit me hard.

I am a 57 year old man and I couldn't cry when my father died and that made me feel even worse, so I got falling down drunk. It wasn't until about 20 years later and I was pretty much an old fart that I finally cried for my Dad. Some of it probably most of it was societal expectations but some may be inherent in some men. Glad this movie showed the harm that it can cause to men and boys.

Highly recommend The Wrestler to anyone that hasn't seen it.

I found the portrayal of the dad very nuanced, and appreciated how it is not forced onto us to consider him as the outright villain. We can plainly see how over-critical he is, the pressure he puts on his sons qualifies as psychological abuse, and he only seems to love them conditionally - but it is most likely how he has always behaved towards them. That behavior is deeply ingrained into the family dynamic and accepted as just the way things are (the mother's denial, deliberately distancing herself and refusing to confront these issues is proof of that). And while his sons resent him for it,they never sit down and adress these problems as a family, there is no place for any of that kind of dialogue within that house, which is in my opinion the father's doing. It isn't until the end of the movie that zac's character comes to terms with how much of a responsibility his father has in the family's tragedies, making the confrontation that much more explosive. I found it very realistic that that is how sean durkin presents the story to us as an audience, no obvious pointing of fingers - the film lets us draw the conclusion ourselves, and we are witness to the overbearing weight and consequence of denial, silence and all that goes unsaid.

Thanks for reviewing the movie guys. I've been a wrestling fan since 1987. My brother and I watched it together. My dad, who was born in the 1930s watched it in the '40s live in Arkansas. The von Erich family was one of my favorite wrestling families of all time I have a very special connection to them. I know the tragedy like the back of my hand and I was super excited to see that they were going to actually finally do this movie and I saw it opening day and I wore My Kerry von Erich shirt and hat ready to go. I also trained in professional wrestling for a short amount of time. I am a die-hard fan of the classic days of wrestling. This movie really did a lot for me. It's my favorite movie of the year. I had a brother who killed himself and I've had a lot of friends that have taken their lives or have died young and the tragedy of the von Eric family. I've carried with me in a lot of ways I've had to be Kevin and carry the pain of my family because my father ignored my brother very much like Fritz did to his family so I appreciate your review very much. I know that everyone's entitled their opinion, but I'm a little sensitive when it comes to the VonErich family because it is such a tragedy and it's a cautionary tale. And if you come from abusive family very much like mine, it really plays on your soul and your heartstrings deeply. As a matter of fact that night after I saw it I was asleep and I woke up and my wife had to stop me from running outside in the snow because I was just so connected to that family and it brought out such emotion in me and I cried and I felt so much. This movie is really about life and the challenges that you get served sometimes and how you deal with them. People don't understand that about this movie. I deeply understand it because I live it everyday. I also have multiple sclerosis. I just got diagnosed a year and a half ago and it's really crippled my body it's been a very difficult transition throughout the years and everyday because I had to go to chemotherapy to get it treated. I was in chemotherapy. I thought of von Eric family and it really reminded me of how precious life can be and how easily it can be taken sometimes and how you take things for granted. But anyway that's what this movie means to me and I hope you guys found something to like about it. Have a good week!

What if they made a film about the Hart family. Dean and Matt forever.

Talking about how it feels like the deaths don’t always fully capitalize on the emotion, I think that was on purpose. Throughout the story thanks to the dad none of the characters are allowed to grieve, instead they have to just keep trucking forward without ever stopping. And so in that way I think it helps us empathize with Kevin, he’s never allowed to spend the time to grieve and so neither are we, at least not until the end.

17:20 It makes me feel better knowing you ladies can acknowledge how much effort it takes to have an healthy body without sexualizing. I try talking with younger men about that and I guess brush off my words. It's ok to admire others for their efforts in taking care of themselves especially if you're doing for others.

As a wrestling fan, there are very few tragedies the surpass the Curse of the Von Erichs. I knew what would happen going in but seeing it play out really hurt. I think there could be some other wrestling stories that could be told in this way; such as the Brian Pilman story, the Life of Terry Funk, the Eddie Guerrero story, the Bray Wyatt Story.

I just saw it yesterday and discovered your channel immediately after watching it. :) Happy I did too. About the portrayal of the dad; I see what you mean about being confused on how to feel about him. I knew the story going in and knew how bad he was but my interpretation is that they wanted the audience to see him the same way that the brothers saw him. It would have been very easy to portray him as an antagonist and say "the brothers hated their dad because he was abusive". But listening to Kevin talk about it, the brothers all loved their dad. In fact, Kevin even says they think the movie was a bit harsh on the guy when I think a lot of wrestling fans thought the movie wasn't harsh enough. As for the conversation about men's bodies, you didn't say anything unfair or untoward (and I appreciate that you considered it). Wrestling itself is a very cosmetic business and muscles are a big part of it, especially in the 1980s. For example, there were periods in wrestling when WWE wouldn't hire any men under 6'1". There are some movies (mainly superhero ones) where I'm concerned for the male actors' health and think it sets an unrealistic expectation for men but in the case of The Iron Claw, I think it's more about being authentic.

I find this discussion incredibly interesting as a lifelong wrestling fan. Despite already being familiar with the Von Erich’s and their story, I assume most media to do with pro wrestling will be tragic and depressing given how many sad, awful, and depressing realities come out of wrestling in those eras. Only now in the 2020’s we’re seeing a shift where wrestling and wrestlers aren’t associated with early deaths, drug abuse, and a toxic hustle culture where you’d be wrestling for 300 days in a year. Where a layperson might see the pomp and poppy colours of 80’s wrestling and associate it with fun and silliness, I and maybe those more familiar with wrestling and its history associate it with something much darker.

From a male point of view, the conversation around the bodies is 100% okay and almost necessary because it's part of the film. It isn't anywhere near the same as objectifying a random person on the street, it is part of the craft of the acting in this film.

Another breathtaking episode 🎉! This film serves as a good reminder that sports looks only fun when you are a spectator, but when you're the one doing the job, you realise the years of struggle behind each success, and at times you can still fall short. Plus, Zac Efron has been my fitness inspiration for ages 💪 and he's proven he's not just his good looks. Another sports drama film y'all may be interested in viewing is Dangal (lit. Wrestling Competition) (2016), which essays the story of two sisters from India who take up their father's mantle of wrestling with his constant support and approval, despite societal pressure. I just hope you can find it with english subtitles. 😅

As a fan of wrestling growing up the thing about not having a certain family dynamic at the dinner table was completely intentional. The father treated his sons and really his family like the way he handled his wrestling business, cold calculated and preformance based. That adds to the pressure the boys felt trying to succeed to level he wanted. And yes from stories about them he did use psychological things to push them in wrestling and to at time assert himself over them. The fact that the brothers never really harbor any jealously to each when he is constantly jumping from one favorite to another is a testament to their love as brothers.

The Iron Claw tales place during the pro wrestling era of The Fabulous Freebirds, Bruiser Brody, Harley Race, Ric Flair, The Missing Link, The Great Kabuki and Jerry Lawler. It is the era of the pro wrestling territory of Fritz Von Erichs and the tragedies the family has endured.

Hey Maisie!! Big fan of your work!! 2 questions all 3 of you! Has this movie peaked your interest in wrestling in general and have you seen Zac from in Charlie Saint Cloud because this is probably a tie for how good of acting Zach has done?

LOVE! I enjoy these more than the actual film lol. I think it was alright to talk about their bodies as they had to change it so much to fit the film, if they spoke about how much a woman had to change for her role I would find this just as interesting and fair... x

just discovered and am excited to learn more about film analysis and how to do it. Also why does Han like the shattered masculinity genre?

Stone Cold Steve Austin said the Von Erichs were a big inspiration for him wanting to become a professional wrestler. God bless the Von Erichs

A wrestlers physique can be a very important part of his presentation. In real life, Karry actually had the best physique. I think in the film Kevin’s physique was a manifestation of the work that he had put in how he wanted to be the best. He wanted to hold the world championship, but got passed up by his younger brothers who didn’t work as hard as him. David and Karry Both did drugs and partied Kevin worked really hard. Chris also worked hard and wanted to be a wrestler more than anything, but he couldn’t succeed as a wrestler because of his physical disability, which is why he ultimately took his own life. Never wanted to be a wrestler, but was forced into the business, which is why he took his life. David’s intestinal rupture was most likely caused by a drug overdose. Since he died in Japan a full autopsy was never done. Karry hid the fact that he only had one leg from the fans and even the other wrestlers. His drug addiction cost him his career in the WWF. Which is why he took his own life.

It’s perfectly acceptable to discuss their physique. It was clearly highlighted in the movie and it’s just a part of Pro Wrestling. Jeremy Allan White was put in a tough spot. Have you ever seen the real Kerry Von Erich? The dude was huge. I grew up watching the Von Erich’s wrestle so it’s interesting listening to you guys discuss them and this movie.

They could never imagine a brotherly love that’s what it comes down to 🤷‍♂️ oh well some people see films as something to ctritique some see it as life oh well lol

Generally speaking in wrestling they are hitting each other they just know how to minimize the damage and the rings aren't spongey. The ring is made up of plywood boards so what they're getting slammed on isn't soft.

What do you mean wrestling isn't real?! 😫😭 Jk. I've always liked movies like this, that show the emotional side of show business from a male perspective. And I have a bit to share about the body conversation: I started a dedicated fitness journey less than 10 years ago. For the first few years, I bought completely into the harmful stereotypes; I was driven to push for the "superhero physique" like you saw with the early Marvel movies. It wasn't until I learned that Chris Hemsworth was hospitalized while shooting Thor 3 that it began to turn for me. I had to listen to actual bodybuilders who were on social media telling the truth about the industry to come off that mindset. I'm still sort of working through balancing the desire to be fit and healthy with wanting the Hollywood male physique that's considered "ideal". All that to say, I appreciated the discussion. I didn't take issue or find it objectifying at all. There's two sides to the discussion: recognizing the dedication it takes to reach that level of physique versus celebrating that as the ideal and setting the bar for everyone at that level. I always feel that, as long as we celebrate the effort made without holding everyone to that, we'll be fine. And at the risk of being controversial, I would say the same thing is generally true of women. One can appreciate a woman's beauty without objectifying, or using her appearance to put other women down. It's a shame that it's such a slippery slope that that's what ends up happening so often. And I now have a new friendship goal: cry in front of Hannah.

Is this lady from game of thrones Arya stark ??

The message for men isnt and shouldnt be "it's ok to cry." It should be "know when to cry." That's why they struggled the way they did. The truth is that you cant teach people to be emotional and vulnerable when it isnt in them. In my case i felt utter shame and anger anytime i cried. And it wasnt something i could control and growing up i was never thought i shouldnt cry. It was just something that i felt. But as i grew older i came to the realization that maybe i felt the way i did because it felt that it was a situation that was something i could control and that i should be able doing something about it. And then there are situations that hurt you that we have no control over and its ok to be vulnerable in those situations. We have to learn as men when too distinguish both. That's the "when". The next question is to learn with whom to be emotional with. In the film there were times where he tried being vulnerable but his parents were closed off. Its one thing for the father to do so. But it was also the mom. And that is the experience of most men. As much as women claim they want an open emotional man. Many women become distant with that man. They look to lose respect for them or use that as something against them. Which is why they avoid getting emotional in front of women. Which is why having brothers is important. Blood related or otherwise. And there are things you share with your brothers and other things you can share with a woman in your life that loves you. No honest good man judged Zac Efron's character when he cried after all that he's been through. However, i think the movie would have hit different if we constantly saw him cry after every tragedy. As men our mindset would be "well i lost a brother but i still have my other brothers." And you hold it in. But towards the end where he lost ever single one. Yea, let it out bro!!!

Are these ladies considered to have “northern” accents?

Multiple concussions is something that must of played a role in their suicides.

I find your analysis callous and lacking empathy. You utter disregard for the after life scene, the void of emotion. The surviving brothers spoke on that scene, particularly and said how much it meant to him seeing it and how touched he was. Your general review lacks any real insight, I think, cause you are removed from male experience as I said before your lack of empathy really highlights how separate and unseen men feel even in settings portrayed in the movie just look at the staggering rates of suicide compared to women. Tbh this was my first view of your podcast and I've generally empathize with you in the past and enjoyed how authentic you seemed to be but this seems like it comes from an ivory tower and very elitist in tone.

these takes are herrendous . a bunch of oh this was good but oh it oculd have been better. oh this must of been this but it wasnt this . oh they didnt really shiow emotion ...... yea they were stoic men who were taught to be tough as nails it wasnt because they werent acting they were being real to the characters... "I wanted it to be spelled out to me" 🙄🙄

It really bummed me out that Chris wasnt added and acknowledged in the film as one of the 5 brothers who took their life. Out of all the brothers even though he was smaller he had the most passion for the business and really wanted to be a wrestler and to be in the business but was undersized. That to me was the saddest death. Wrestling was his literal dream more so than the other brothers.