Over thirty years in the business here and I have to say this. If you are driving a truck because of the way it looks you are not a businessman, you are big kid playing trucker. This is the kind of video that separates the "truckers" from the people who want to keep food on the table and stay in business when things get bumpy.
My question comes to 1: Truck depreciation difference. 2: If you convert your fuel savings into personal income, you subtract the tax (40%?). If you take this all into account, roll a projection for four years, and get a final count, I suspect it would all even out. Then, for me, it would be more a matter of enjoying trucking, and not so much about fuel mileage alone. Maybe it would be interesting to crunch in a few more numbers than just fuel. Enjoy your videos a lot! Keep up the good work.
I got one of these trucks. I get 7mpg with 605hp. At the end of the day it’s still worth 130k after 5 years. Repairs are virtually nothing. That makes up for the difference in fuel cost.
Great point. W900s and Pete 379s retain their value incredibly as opposed to all other trucks from what I’ve seen. I own a 2012 T-660 and am considering a new or newer truck in the next year and a half. Are you having good luck with your X-15? Any emissions issues? Do you run heavy and still get 7mpg? I pull tankers and we’re always close to 80,000 lbs.
@@caaguilar82 no issues with emissions, only problem I’ve had is an exhaust leak after all these years. Truly a great engine! Make sure you get the performance series variant. I haul Reefer and run at 62mph. I haul around 76k gross most of the time.
Ronen , Yes it is true I will never get the fuel consumption as your fleet trucks but you need to look at a bigger picture here and when I had my volvo I used to spend 18000 to 23000 in repairs annually starting from the very first year. The quality, cost and the value kenworth holds and the bottom line. " It's not what you make, its what you get to keep in the end " that's my line. However I did ordered a freightliner cascadia over a year ago and two of our finest dealers in Ontario failed to deliver a truck. 👍Happy Trucking!!!
@@DaveG7920 Yep, I bought my first truck in 2007 it was a 2008 model truck that was the first year of the new emissions and from day one I had nothing but trouble with engine aftertreatment, fuel injectors , injector cups , turbo blew up twice in two years the first time 25000 dollars in damages second year, and so on you name it .I finally managed to get rid of it in four years.
@@Artur_Khazin I think you'll find a lots changed since 07. Cummins motors from that time were absolute junk too. The tech has changed a lot. If W9's and 389's were the most profitable truck the mega's would run them.
@@DaveG7920 That's true, the kw and 379s were great with 3406 cats prior to 09 to 14 cummins isx , the company I ran for at the time had a lot of issues with them cummins did a recall in14 for an overhaul most of the engines and the aftertreatment system Those were the bad days.
Just got my cdl. I love everything that you are doing. I love that you are throwing all kind of data out there. It really helps when making decisions about trucking.
I think the comments about the bigger picture are pretty spot on. Looking at resale, depreciation, repairs, comfort and overall reliability are huge! To some those numbers/ideas may seem intangible but in reality at the end of the trucks life, who spent more to keep it rolling and who put more in their pockets. Nice try though, but the story is much more nuanced and complex than just fuel economy.
I know two drivers from Manitoba that own 2018 W900's with 18-speeds and 3.48 finals on 11R24.5 tires. Both are averaging 8.1 on a regular basis pulling tankers. The engines are X15 Performance Series that came speced at 550/2050 and were dialed down to 500/1950.
I think another thing you have to take into consideration is resale value. Wandering Pete made a video about that. A classic truck in the end wins. You might pay more in fuel but when you have to sale it you would get a lot more for your 389/W900 than you would for a any freightliner or volvo
Dont think this resale game will be last forever. Who want a used truck with bad mpg when diesel will be more expensive in the future? That will destroy the resale value of the classics. A Cascadia saves at least 15.000 US Dollar a year over a W900. Even if the resalve value is worse.... 15.000 Dollars three years in a row... Game over.
The more I do the numbers, it seems like the best deal would be buying new with a big down payment and operating for 250k miles and selling with the new trucks. After 250k everything seems to go out.
But if youre losing $90k on fuel, are you really gonna get that savings? Nah, even if the resell value was $0 for the Volvo I think you would still be ahead
Let’s get into more detail. Are the company trucks governed at 65, while the w900 isn’t? What was the idle right for each, and what will be the resale value of each when it’s 3 or 4 years old and has 300-400k miles?
it's not always all about the money. i spend more time in that seat rolling than any other one place in the world and i, for one, can tell you i'm just as comfy piloting that 379 as i am on my sofa at home. every driver makes his own decision but those that have never driven a hood don't know how badly they're getting beat up every damn day.
I thought a buddy how to drive in my w900 with 280inch wheel base and 13 speed. He went to prime Inc flatbed and complains about how he hits the ceiling in that new frieghtliners
I drive a 2004 379 with a c13 13spd. It's too bad we are in CA and the truck was sold today. Driving a 579 right now and it's not the same as driving a hood. The 2004 rides better than the 2014 truck.
I drive a 579 and that seat is fantastic. Previously I drove an International and it had the worst seat ever, 2 months and I never could get it adjusted right. Everything else about that International was excellent however, especially bunk layout. Prior to that I drove a Cascadia, not a bad seat, but man, the bunk was a prison mattress and never comfortable, along with a lot of other awkward things about driving the thing. The whole bunk area was a crammed nightmare and I hated it. Point being, I agree with OP here, comfort matters, we live out of these things. My current 579 makes the experience the best: a great spacious bunk area with 2 windows (I can still stand even in the mid-roof), and a very comfortable seat.
Hi from France, I drive à petrol tanker here in France, work for a huge company as a company driver. Yeah,they drive us crazy with fuel economy and driving techniques.The truck has about four monitoring devices in it,i'm followed by either téléphone or satelite or à combination of the two. Yeah,between the driving techniques,tyre (tire) pressures,the type of tyres (winter or summer) and correct maintenance the figures here à quite impressive. It's only relativly short haul,nothing compared to your mileage per month. Great video. Have a great day 😊
Great job , im subscribed to your channel and im owner operator in texas I have a 2003 freightliner classic xl with a cummins isx , mi millage per gallon it's only 5.5
Very interesting Ronan. In the uk our Volvo's are getting between 10 and 11.50 mpg, admitadly that's with the truck set at 56mph using cruise control. I understand with the vast distances in the USA & Canada you need the extra speed to get the freight to the destination in a reasonable time, but it just goes to show a reduced speed increases the mpg significantly.
@@NorthAmerican-Trucking-News one thing I didn't mention Ronan, isn't it slightly unfair comparing a manual Kenworth to I presume a auto frieghtliner & Volvo?.
Truly appreciate this video as I’ve been in talks with Inland Truck Center about a W900 Aerodyne or T680 and your raw data from your actual fleet is appreciated !
I am facing same confusion i would say. I was going for W9 talked to the inland guy he was like go for t680 now i am stuck with 680,880 or the cascadia which is costing me around 220k.
IF you buy a truck I recommend you get the bunk windows deleted. The window seals rot and leak which leads to your truck interior being destroyed by mold. Also your driver may forget to close them at the end of the trip causing the same water damage and mold problem. Once you get mold in your truck it will never be the same again. Also, without bunk windows the bunk is much quieter, and stronger.
I don't believe anybody was. I think he's looking at the whole package. But personally I have no idea why anybody would want one unless doing heavy haul or something. Paccar 300 pounds lighter Paccar better fuel mileage and Paccar B10 engine life vs cummins B50 engine life.
@@pepsonautotransport1322 paccar engines are shit in hauling flatbed. Had one in my fleet and it last 6 months. I knew then when I was a company driver stay away from paccar engines. One of our guys was driving and his jake brake activated and wouldn’t cut off even though the jake was never engaged. I knew then my W9 that had a 3406e in it that old school is the way to go. c15 I’ve had no issues except turbo in 2 years
@@lilripstaSSF4 the old cats where great only probably is finding good reliable parts anymore. You can only rebuild things so many times. I'm thinking you probably had a earlier paccar so I would agree. But they have been upgrading them since then. The new one's are 510hp 1859 ft. That's like saying all cummins are garbage because of the reliability issues of the isx 15 especially 2016 and earlier. Fuel pumps piston rings cams snapping in half just tons of problems but they got it right over the years with the x15 from what I hear. Everything takes time to develop
@oramlll - bull crap, my dd15, 2019 cascadia gave me 9.6mpg over the last 35,000 miles. I can send you pictures on my dash read out if you post your email to prove it
A question i'd like to raise is how are the drive trains different between your drivers rigs? Drive ratios? Example : 2.47. Is power lost between the second and third axle? Do various automatic, automated, and manual transmissions fare different for mileage?
I missed the poll but in the company truck I was in, I averaged 8.7mpg in the winter (i like the cold so the truck never idled long) and 7.6 in the warmer months. Werner doesnt have the separate bunk ac so idle management would take control and basically the truck would idle 4-6 hrs a night and sometimes not even turn off at night. As opposed to the maybe hour and a half that it was doing in the winter.
If he's pulling loads less than 80,000 lbs he should have these final drive ratios: 3.08:1 finals with low profile 22.5 tires 3.21:1 or 3.25.1 finals with 11R/22.5 tires 3.36:1 finals with low profile 24.5 tires 3.48:1 finals with 11R/ 24.5 tires. The DD15 and X15 engines do not need extremely tall gears to run in places like the Rockies. What they need is a driver who knows to back out of the throttle when the oil temps start spiking.
I love these comparisons: Lets say the W900 Operator drives his truck for 48 month and has to pay an additional $1500/mos vs if he had bought a Cascadia, he will be paying an additional $72,000 over 4 years for choosing the W900. at 60mos/5years it is $90K just in additional fuel expense. That is $90K that can be put towards a mortgage. But at least he will be Stylen and profilen
You can actually run the kw for 10 yrs or more plus where the cascadia or a Volvo is a throw away truck. Payments never stop, so the goal should be to get your equipment paid for which allows you to say no when someone wants you to work for 1.55-170 per mile.
@@davidgillis3939 Perhaps most 90% of Freightliner Leased trucks and many of the operators are not paying the bills so they get run down a bit faster oppose to someone that buys one new and actually looks after it but Have you seen 10 + year old KW's or Pete's for sale? the Inside of them look like Whitney Houston's Bathroom, many of the gauges and switches are broken When you buy one, you gotta spend $5-10K just to get it re-upholstered. Many of them are just Nasty. Maybe the Better ones are on the road but the ones I have seen currently for sale are awful. Check out Ohio Truck sales they have the largest batch of KW and Petes for sale right now.
Because even if the volvo and cascadia had a resell value of 0, it would still out perform the resell of the w900 if it were 90k used. You're talking about 90grand wasted with using these numbers. YOU SAVE $90,000$ in 5 years, If the w900 resell was 90k you would still have a value of $0! Where if the resell of Volvo and Cascdia was $0 the value would be +90k
I have a 2019 T680 with Cummins efficiency series X15. I average about 8 mpg. On lighter loads I can get up to 9 mpg and on heavier loads 7 to 7.5 . South east regional truck no winter …
If you close the air gap under the W900 and streamline the underbody, install longer side fairings, close some of the air gaps around the truck, install wheel covers, you can get at least another 0.5MPG out of it. Enjoy.
Well thanks to these numbers that I can compare myself driving the old cascadia 2014, I don’t drive fast but always try to keep at 65mph most of the time in Cruise control, and I got average mpg around 8.1 - 8.3 carrying over 40000 lbs!
My husband is not the type of guy who buys a new truck a few years. It's his first truck and he just rebuild it himself which actually save him a lot of money. He doesn't want anything to do with newer trucks and the emissions system cost
Thanks for pointing out the fuel consumption. İt's not only good for company and drivers but also reduces CO2 emissions which also beneficial for everyone. Don't get me wrong my father drove an R model Mack for 35 years but at the end he retired with very little savings. Truck driving is a though job and you should make a lot to Justify the time you are spending away from your family. Thanks again for sharing this data keep up the good work I appreciate it.
I drive a KW T680 and average 8mpg and even though I'm a company driver staying in Michigan, I've only had to fill twice in the last month at around $700 a pop. ~$1500 a month in fuel.
I drive a t680 I never get past 6mpg last load I did I got 5.5 most people I know that have newer cascades are getting 6.5 just depends on your driving pretty much .
The kenworth is still the better truck. Holds it's value way better than the volvo and freightliner. I guess you Canadians have never heard of fuel surcharge. 🤣
There’s not enough sensors and the wait list is long, very long. When your NOX sensor go out, you can be down for months. Freightliner has more sensors (parts) available than kw, and kw has more electronics(sensor shortage) problems than Freightliner. But still, buying an emissions truck in 2021 is a big mistake as there are electronics(sensor) shortages.
Diesel is very expensive right now. Can you talk about how it is effecting O/O and ET Transport? I am about to get my CDL but because of BRANDON, our fuel is very High and I don't see it ease up until 2024
I’m an owner operator leased on to a tanker outfit doing power only. With higher fuel prices the fuel surcharge is higher as well. By having a fuel card with a good discount we actually do better when fuel prices are higher as opposed to cheaper. Crazy right? Give you an example: Memphis, TN to Williamsport, PA $4895 gross plus $1174.80 in fuel surcharge. I get 62% of the gross so my part was $3034.90 plus $13.55 tolls plus $1174.80 fuel. If you take a similar load but for a different customer who pays less then your linehaul will be lower and therefore your fuel surcharge will be lower. Watch out for companies who skim part of the fuel surcharge and keep it to themselves. Hope this helps.
What he fails to say is his fleet trucks are locked to 65 mph, so I’m sure the o/o is running at whatever speed he wants. He never brings up that when talking about fuel consumption
@@lilripstaSSF4 All trucks in Ontario are govern at 65m/h, its the law . What Ronen doesn't understand is that every truck, equipment, operation, direction of travel, weather, driver habits are different situations , I refuse to run at 55 to 60 m/h I believe its not safe period, every one is different, those numbers means absolutely nothing its logical to say that the aerodynamic trucks in general are more fuel efficient then the classics and he is looking at it from his fleet perspective and the wages that the pay, but for the one truck operation what you want is quality, I owned volvos before its nothing but junk plastic fairings crack, rattle, breaking apart on the third year all around. Not to mention the accidents, more damage cost you more. The is a reason why people still buy classic trucks even when they cost more.
Ronen is also forgetting the fact that there is this thing in Canada called taxes , the fuel is your number one expense but it also your number one write off .
Loving all the topics that your doing, keep up the great work. Also I’m a 46 yr old looking to get into the industry, would you recommend a reputable driving training company that most business’s use and also what the pros and cons are when going with a cheaper company. Even thou I wouldn’t it would also be a great topic thanks for your time.
1. Don't get in trucking. 2. Still thinking about it? Don't get in trucking. 3. Bigger companies (mega carriers) will hire you and train you and totally rip you off in pay and work you like a horse. They chew up drivers and spit them out because they have the numbers so you're just a number to them. The benefits are you don't have to worry about problems with maintenance on the road, they have many loads, and you generally have very basic tasks just being a driver as long as you're driving all the time. 4. Smaller companies are more personal, chances are you're going to find a family owned company, known by name, paid more. However the process takes time, you would have to get your hands greasy sometimes, it would be more hands on with you at the front lines compared to mega carriers where they have a different department fix everything and you sit like a zombie. You still have to work alot since it is trucking, you have to be on the road. Many companies promise the world to you "weekends off, high pay" all that junk but in the end if the truck is sitting they are losing money so they need you driving. If they can put you in the truck for the rest of your life they will do it they don't care. That goes for big and small companies. 5. Don't get in trucking
I like your channel. The mpg videos are vague ie what weight and terrains. Hills, mountains,flatlands.The rich vs poor driver i wanted to know the weights.The 500hp W9 can pull 40+ and not work as hard as the other models
How are you getting 8+ mpg? I drive a 2021 T680 auto w/ paccar engine. I’m avg 6-6.5 but I do leave cruise at 72. I haul stepdeck and usually close to 80,000
Do you have any tag axels on the ground? At 72 mph youre hitting a TON of wind a literal WALL of air the truck is fighting through. Also, you probably also drive with traffic and a theory is when you stay with traffic youre gonna have to speed up and slow down a lot where if you dialed down that speed a little you wouldnt be hitting the WALL which is around 65-68mph, and also having to re-adjust your speed as often. Also, if you only drive mountains that sounds about right :), but if youre in the flats you really need to re-adjust (if you care to) some driving habits because ive driven that truck a lot and was always around the 7.2-7.5 mpg
72 mph is way too fast for good fuel economy. Keep it at 62mph or below, cruise control on 98% of time and you should see 8.0+ mpg. Keep trailer tight to the rear of the truck, and accelerate slowly. If all else fails, tune the engine down to 400hp and leave the torque the same. That will net you 9.0 mpg easily.
When you purchase truck your business starts purchasing spare parts and $50 for sensors lol you need approx 12 to keep you going along with the program for your motor cost $5000 tops
OK, but your own data shows that he's idling way too much, which is a big hit. Had he gotten an auto, and probably better rear ends he'd be doing better. True, he's not going to hit the mpg that an aero truck will, but man the ride is amazing. Resale will also be better over a Freightshaker or a Volvo. I do, however, with you could still get a Detroit in the kenworth. Thanks for keeping up the great content.
The “higher resale” argument doesn’t work. Of course a truck that cost $50,000 more to begin with will sell for $50,000 (minus depreciation) 4 or 5 years later. That initial $50k will also have to be financed for that period or will be depreciating if paid in cash at the onset. All for an extra $2000 a month in fuel costs, which by the end of 60 months is $120,000.
@@Freightlinerbob Valid point of course, but still plays into some people's decision process. For what it's worth, I prefer an aero truck for the fuel savings. But, I'd go KW or Pete myself, over an FL. That's just personal preference though. My other points still stand, too much Idle time, and not carefully spec'd. My old business partner is getting 8 mpg in a carefully spec'd 389, running his own trailer, and generally light loads on a dedicated run. Even he admits, he probably should have gone aero, and likely will on his next truck. It sure is pretty though.
@@Freightlinerbob I bought my W9 for 35k with 1.1 on clock did an overhaul and I’ve put another 250k on clock so far. In the last 2 years I’ve had 1 breakdown where I had to wait on a turbo, other than that I rarely breakdown since I have no def or egr. Yes I spend more of fuel only because I do rgn loads sometimes. When I run my stepdeck or even light loads on my gooseneck I get 6.5-7.4mpg out of a C15 6nz. I also don’t do the mountains too often unless I have too
@@lilripstaSSF4 well there you go. A W9 for $35K while a comparable FL would be $10K. Guaranteed that the KW cost way more than the $25k resale difference. The resale argument does not hold water. But happy your tuck is working out for you. My C15 wasn’t a very happy experience.
@@Freightlinerbob my KW if it already had an overhaul done would’ve cost me 65-90k. W9’s and 379 Pete’s drivers take great care of them. I even see W9a models still on the road in better shape than most cascadias. Those trucks haven’t been made since early 80’s. People treat FL like the trash it is
I also want to add you mainly talk about the cost of fuel and how much you save on those Volvo's and cascadias but you don't really touch base on the maintenance on them with the emissions system which is crazy expensive to replace.
I stay local drive about 60k to 70k a year since I don’t always get pay by miles so it’s doesn’t effect me much this comparison for people who do long haul and drive 2 dollars per mile. Moral of the story if you pull dry van and drive 12 k per month buy aerodynamic truck but if you stay local you can drive stylish truck .
It's not only about economy. The W900 is alot harder to backup, the mirror setup is not as good as Volvo, there's more blind spots because the stacks are in your way when you're looking in your mirror, and the turning radius on the W900 is terrible. Volvo is definitely got the best mirror setup, the quietest ride, drives like a car, and has dynamic electric steering which is proven to reduce driver fatigue. Freightliner is what you buy when you want to have water dripping on your head as you roll down the road. Volvo is what you buy when you want to haul freight and you value your safety. Volvo will save your life and prevent the truck from becoming unstable in an emergency situation. It's a much, much more stable platform.
One thing never brought up in these fuel comparisons is the resale value. Realistically after 5 years, the resale on a Volvo or a Cascadia is a lot less then on a W900 or a Pete 389. That should more then make up for the miles per gallon.
As usual valuable info, do you guys do Paccar Kenworth challenge soon, or you might have some info about that engine. Planning to order new Gen t680, do you think the 13 sp transmission manual will give me good milage, and what would be the best gear ratio and wheel base, I will haul van, sometimes flat up to 45000lb. Thank you for your suggestions!
The calculation between resale in 5 years vs the cascadia or Volvo. 25k to 35k higher than the others. The driver can improve by 1.5 mpg potentially. Do we have an apu for Ac and accesories? The quality for a long term use goes to the Kenworth by far. Pros and cons to consider
Let me break the news to you, your KW will run into emissions sensor related electrical problems within the first 3 years after you bought it new. Wait time on parts is many many months long. Good luck keeping your truck while waiting on parts.
Fuel prices always fluctuate. I remember back in 2008 we were paying $4.80 to $5.00 a gallon, but we made it through. I have driven Freightliners, Volvos, Macks, Internationals and Kenworths in my 21 years in this industry and I will always prefer the Kenworth. They ride better and and at the end of the day you don't feel like you have been beaten to death. When you spend hours behind the wheel day in and day out, driving a truck that doesn't wear you out trumps a $1500,00 a month difference. But, that's just my opinion.
@@jaeinnmoon3279 I hear ya. Maybe when I retire what ever truck I own at the time I'll have them put one of their sleepers on it and turn it into an R.V.
@@gweisenbar1776 - no, order a day cab with 265 wb truck, then you can get a 97inch cab. Or, you can order a 285 wb frame day cab and you can get a 120inch ari sleeper. I am ordering a 265 wb to get a 97inch ari sleeper that has toilet, shower, full kitchen
defiantly makes me feel better for buying new trucks, but i want to buy a used truck and it just doesn't make sense. wish there was some new trucks out there to buy.
Excellent videos Ronan. Thanks for the info on Cummins performance out there. I’ve been curious how Cummins compares to Detroit in real life. I currently have a 99 Peterbilt 379 averaging 6 when it’s not winter, hoping to upgrade to something soon that gets 9 mpg. Another subject to consider discussing is Canada’s carbon tax. I’m a US O/O traveling to Canada daily and am paying this ridiculous tax every quarter which keeps going up. A Canadian O/O told me his carbon tax gets reimbursed when he files his taxes. I wonder if there’s any way a US O/O can get reimbursed too. Anybody out there have any information on this?
you have to throw in repairs on the plastic trucks though for this to be legit. It's the whole package that makes it not just fuel. good video though i do enjoy the content.
All trucks break down, that's why all the dealers workshops are full of mechanics. If W9's and 389's were the most cost effective the mega's would run them.
I wouldn't by any of that garbage they call trucks out here. Been driving commercial trucks for 37 years. Been an owner operator for 29 years. I would love to buy a new truck but they have more issues than my 22 year old truck. Everyone I know that is in the same boat as me ( owner operator for years and has the capacity to run a business) everyone of them that bought this new junk either went out of business or got rid of it the moment they weren't upside down with it anymore and bought an older truck. I would love to give a dealership my money but it just makes more sense to give it to the parts man
If you are getting 8 mpg but spending 💰 on egr , def , dtf trouble and not turning tires . Mpg is out the window. Can you do a video on the cost of Def, Egr, DTF and other issues these newer truck come with. So we can weigh the good bad and the ugly.
I have a Volvo with an X15. (I just don’t have faith in the Volvo engines) it averages over 8MPG. Is the KW worth buying…. Sure, if it’s 1985. That’s the time I owned a classic conventional. Still can’t believe someone would actually think about taking a significant financial hit for nostalgia.
@@DaveG7920 I think we all have our bias. Just know too many guys doing injectors, cups and cams prior to 500,000 mi. I love the Western Star as well but, that one box scares the shit out of me. But let’s face it, with every power train there is an element of finger crossing that you have a good one. :-)
