Is ACC Pay to Win? 

I think it would have been interesting to also test the agressive setup with tire pressure adjusted to hit 27.5psi, since it is an adjustment most of us could actually manage to make and has quite an important impact on the lap time.

Austin Ogonoski has been saying it for years, it's never truly about the physics when it comes to aliens, it's always about the exploits.

The tire pressure on pro setup is much closer to optimal, which makes this comparison not as accurate as we would like it to be.

I think this comparison would be very interesting if an additional free set up is used. Like the ones from fri3d0lf (this dude is awesome btw). Like I am a second faster with his race setup compared to the default aggressiv setup.

Maybe the solution is to have some fixed setup servers like in iRacing. Then you would have both and see who is more skilled in setups and who is more skilled in driving

I have tested this too for myself, to check if I am stupid on motec and RST on making car setups or maybe I am slow average player. I did the same like you. After some hours of playing I have discovered that setup which I have made was not bad at all, my driving style too, but I could not find difference why on bought setup I am 1 sec faster. Later I have found that on bought setup camber was set to crazy value 4,0 deg. So I have changed 4,0 on setup made by myself, and then I have found another 0,7 sec. Sometimes small crazy changes in setup will change a lot, but every setup is made for specific drive style of driver. For one setup can be interesting for another player rubbish. The best for me was to learn telemetry and setup, compare it to bought setup, find differences and improve my own setup on small adjustments and tests, to tweak it into my drive style. :)

It helps for sure. If you can’t get your setup perfect for you, then you don’t have the confidence (or aren’t able to) in the car to throw it around. But the best setup vs someone that is faster than you isn’t gonna help you win, maybe just get you a little closer to them. Also just helps you to be more consistent as the car will be easier to drive

Of course is the grip much better. You start with +1 PSI (28 PSI is perfect) and they reset after every round in hotlap mode. You should compare with the same PSI or drive in training mode for 30min.

Would be interesting to see how the pressures were on each setup, because ACC is very dependant on them and you didn't adjust them. That slone could make for almost 1s

It'd be interesting to revisit this topic in 3-4 months to see if (when?) the esports teams find new exploits in 1.9, and if those exploits convey as much of an advantage as the current ones do.

Thank you for these videos. It's nice to see normal people doing test like this.

It can only be considered pay to win if you were paying for something that would otherwise be unavailable. Everything possible contained within a paid-setup is available to everyone free, but the catch is you need a ton of experience, knowledge and skill to leverage it.

I'd be interested in seeing your time after tweaking the default setup more to your liking, as well. How close would that get you to the paid one?

I also use paid setups and it works for me, but if you're going to try to make a point with a vid at least bother with doing the test properly and make sure at least the PSI, fuel level and TC/ABS settings are the same.. You conveniently placed your face over the PSI display, but I can see the rear tires are around 26.5 in your aggressive setup test, and around 27.6 on your paid setup test. At least I can look forward to being select among a shortlist of winners.

Thank you, very interesting. I always thought that ACC was a bit weird and way too reliant on doing suspension setups that a player can't feel (using mid range or average equipment). The over reliance on the setups hurdle actually puts me off using ACC as a main sim. I would prefer the racing simulation to instead, focus on using dynamic road surface conditions, random track events, yellow flag events, and weather as more important point of difference for having how drivers and cars can be different and competitive from each other. The range in suspension setups should be more limited to how much can be varied so that the cars can be a bit more homogenized, and lead to having a more level playing field for all users. I want to race and not be wasting time on setting up, even though that is an important part in RL racing. The typical sim racing rig, doesn't have the "g-force feel" which helps to gauge what is happening to a car. I would prefer that the devs just ensure that the driver can feel the grip limits of the tires instead of an over reliance on suspension set-ups that are cryptic. A RL car's set-up is always a compromise anyway. IMO, if an alien's time is way faster than a RL track record, then there is definitely something weird. Although, more homogenized setups could lead to boring racing and so if the car's are too similar to each other then how do sim racers compete and still be entertained by a game? I think that for a sim racing game, that the drivers should focus more on having to manage a dynamic track surface with their radio /crew chief advising them, which parts of the track will have issues with grip due to random debris and spills and temperature. Some added focus in game development on tire wear management, car deterioration and economics. Also, adding more AI to AI car accidents, slip streaming, random track debris, impact suspension damage, smoke screens, dirty windshields, hot weather and overheating issues and more random track events eg. slight drizzle, fog, crazy spectator invasions, would make for more entertaining sim racing, than wasting hours of time trying to work out the perfect setup just to get anywhere near an alien's lap time. I doubt the aliens would be able to replicate their time in a real car anyway. I love the car simulation but wasting time on something that can't be felt is not that great. Maybe when G-forces can be simulated in the average sim rig, then wasting time on crazy set-ups would make more sense.

Great video, love the content, keep em' coming! ; )

A proper setup will give you confidence, but it is also placebo confidence. Tyre pressures are the most important thing in ACC, and as everyone else is saying and as I noticed, you didnt have them set properly on the aggressive setup. You should definitely try it again with the tyre pressures set properly. Setups compliment moreso your driving style, but there are still ways to take a corner that need to be understood. The cars are all balanced properly ( mostly ) when it comes to engine power, so moreso track knowledge and understanding the car is also equally as important as having a good setup. you also used the pro setup after you already drove your warm-up laps around Spa, further increasing the advantage and your point of view on the setup. This is also an unfair point, as you had already invested more time into track practice by the point you changed to the pro setup.

Completely pointless, 1) set the pressures to be the same not way too low on the default. 2) don't run the "slower" setup first then the paid setup. You are just practicing for the paid run.

U can figure the setups on ur own if u truly care to. It takes time and patience but it's just as fun to me as racing

I started playing acc instead of iracing and loved the feel until I tried getting into a race with others… my PC is not good enough unfortunately. Gonna try rF2 now

The best option would be fixed set up options when creating a server. With only tire pressure and down force adjustments or something. As a casual sim racer I don't have hours to tweak a set up. This would be perfect to jump on with mates and have a few good eaves of an evening. Nothing is more soul destroying knowing your getting beat just becuase of your set up

3:33 "Thats Raidillon actually!" 😂

I found tuning the shocks with motec made a much better and faster car for me

suggestion next time, please start with the pro set up and then move to the aggressive one.

Great video! Can I ask you what gloves you have? Do you have a link?

Gut das du sagst es aktuell im Setup nix mit der Realität zutun hat bei manchen Einstellungen. Düse mit dem Aggresiv Setup und 2-3 Umstellung 2.18.5 Freu mich auf das Update wenn hoffentlich wieder die Werte das tun was sie in der Realität auch tun.

I used to buy few setups in the last years...now I stop doin it, I set the car by myself. I break every lap records i did...I think that exploited setups are very fast, but at the same time they forcing you to drive in 1 only way..a personal setup is more flexible, and it suits better on my poor skill ehehehhe! Thank you for this video

This is why I like fixed setups

Are these the same setups as the CDA ones as I just bought the amg ones and didn’t notice any improvement.

I have found a difference between even the different types of paid setups, if I compare what I used to buy compared to what I get now its nearly a second faster on every track of which both were faster than my own setups, although oddly enough if it comes to wet tracks I prefer using my own setups and I am faster with it then

I bought half a dozen setups. When I compare them to the setups I made myself, the lap times are identical. For me, the benefit of buying setups was I could jump in loads of different cars and spend 10 mins getting it ready rather than spending a couple of hours making it competitive. It opened up the game and gave me variety, which is my biggest problem with ACC. The lack of mods will hurt the game in the end. Such a shame.

I've often wondered if it really makes that big of a difference! For me at Spa which is definitely not my best track I get down into the 2:18s. I've seen as low as 2:14.9 which is ridiculously fast. I can't imagine a set up getting me into the 2:16's. It seems to me that most pro racers make up their times in the corners. Being able to slam the throttle down at the apex and having no issues.

I can confirm this just with an free RU-vid Setup. Got from the aggressive Setup a 42.3 on Kyalami and wasn´t able to improve. After around 3h with the other setup I drove a 40.9. -1.4 and this wasn´t a paid setup. So I think we can gain more than everyone told us. Mostly it was like "setup changes aren´t that important, even the presets are good". Yeah if you want a total different car it is okay. But I learn a lot more with a good time and fun in my back.

After you buy the setup how do you load it to the game? I have a PC. thx

you are driving faster with bad settings then me with pro settings XD

Easy solution: leaderboards with a "copy setup" function like in Live for Speed.

I so much love this Aston martin but without setup there is always oversteer in corner

Im considaring buying some setups because with self made setups i nearly qualified for mclaren esports with (0.5-0.8 s behind the best drivers best laps + im with logitech g29 and 60 hz monitor) .I guess because of real life racing experience im kinda good.... if esports setups give half a second faster times it will be nice :)

the most importent is the tyre pressure. You drove the aggressiv setup with rear tyres below 27psi and the bought one with kinda optimal rear tyre pressure. dosn´t look like fair conditions @ all

Does anyone know how to interchange the functions of clutch and brake pedals in G29 on ACC ps4

I don’t know anything about acc but cool video

I'd never pay for a car setup. There are plenty of guys with good lap times showing their setups on youtube for free. I choose one with a low lap number and just get used to it

At least half of the difference was from the fact, the aggressive preset had way to low tyre pressures.

What's the average pricing or price range of those "pro" setups?

I'm probably also a quite typical below average driver in ACC. I tried all cars om Monza to figure out if any particular car would appeal more to me than any others. I just went for the default aggressive for all and by far the AMR was the worst car to drive with that setup on that track while, for example, the Audi-setup seemed to match the track pretty well. The setups will vary quite much in performance depending on track I think. I continued the test with just a few cars and on Spa. The default was not good at all with the Audi there. I just did some Aero changes to it though and then it was 2s faster. Mainly because I was not continuously just working with keeping it on track (pretty much how it looked for the first 30 mins here). To answer the original question I'd say: Of course it is! All simracing is to some extent and it is just not only the setups. You also have the whole equipment side, wheels pedals, monitors etc. It is kind of a given that there is a reason pros do don't complete using mouse and keyboard on a 15" screen.

This is why I like fixed setup race and why the first ac is so terrible for me.

I totally agree with your conclusions: I'm kindy a driver like you, same laptimes in spa; default aggressive setups are for the bin, even with adjusted pressures (sorry to say this...), custom setups taken freely from youtube and I'm 1-1,5 s faster

cheers for the free advertisement haha🤝

Used to be the truth pre-1.9 update. Now after the new physics update, it's really easy to get a fast setup from the aggressive one. I"m sure they will find some exploits again, but for now times have DRASTICALLY dropped on most tracks and are much closer to the fastest times online. I haven't bought any ready made setups, but i asked a guy i know who sets up race cars in real life, to come and help me setup my Audi for Monza. Before that my best times were hardly dropping in the 49s. After he came and set it up for my driving stile, instantly dropped into the 48s. Now with the new physics and aggressive setups, out of the get got in the 47.5xx, but the main difference is that now i can feel the grip and when over steer is about to happen and don't have to correct after it has already occurred. For Imola i downloaded one of the older free setup of CDA and despite it being at least 3 updates older, times instantly dropped from 1:42s to 1:40s.

Share the set up and let us test ourselves 😅 interesting how you say "kinda" regarding pay to win. It is not. Imagine if you were the set up guy. It's a community thing. Like coach and team, I paid a few to join and learn when I was in iRacing. I paid, but the winning part is on me, if I applied what I learned or not. If you feel they are taking advantage of you, you don't have to pay. You can scour the internet and find free tutorials that teach the same thing. It's just your time and enjoyment that you manage and weigh your spending vs happiness.

Let me guess. All dampers maxed, 0 bumpstop range, 0 spring strength, and maxed bumpstop rate? so stupid, cant wait 1.9 to change it.

I know this is a few months old now but can I say firstly whats going on with your driving view it seems zoomed and when you drive and see the outside world its almost like things are going past too slow for the speed you are doing ? Secondly the setup you tried 2nd you should of left the traction control to how they set it up cause they all combine with each other if you use a great setup from someone and then change the electronics as in abs and or the tc the setup is going too feel different to how it was made for....

It’s interesting that you say you wouldn’t set a car up like that in real life. Maybe that’s where I’m going wrong 😢

Can ps5 have a F1 or any other city map modes?

Paid setups are an inevitable consequence of how complex the game is. Most players don’t have the knowledge or time to create or work on these. So the paid setups fulfill this need. And RW drivers don’t need to work on setups, they have a race engineer and an entire team or manufacturer backing them. So using a paid setup is akin to the real world.

I'm lucky to get 2:25 with a ferrari evo on this track 😢

Here's to hoping rennsport isn't as bad as ACC in terms of setups making such a difference

18 eggs across all the posts. I hope this is the right place

It’s not just about the initial quick lap..but the ease of the lap, that a good setup provides …less stresses on the senses …so can you imagine if you’re in a endurance race…fatigue, whether you’re driving a real car or virtual..is a thing and adds up over time….so you just imagine the implications. I’ve been into SiM for a long time, working on setups, always in search of the holy grail of setups…it’s a lot of work, but satisfying when you finally get the car when you want it…then the Dev throws out an update which totally trashes all the work you just did 😡 At the end of the day..knowing the basics, but not limited to: toe, camber caster, spring rebound ARB as well as your diff settings…can go a long way. Imho, one of the easiest to change right off the bat, is camber…for whatever reason…Devs usually will have way too much neg camber..in the front..affects breaking..rear, affects your power out of turns…as with the higher camber there is a lot less rubber on the tarmac….so for me, I will usually do a few default laps then reduce camber, front and rear…and 9 times outta 10, I am quicker…

Not pay to win at all…..learn how to do setups and they will be better than a generic setup off someone else

Interesting. You wonder why this isn’t the standard setup. Out of the box.

Is there a new exploit list out yet? - max negative toe - tire Temps - softest of springs - what else?

i think you should use your own setup vs paid setup, because your setup is your driving style.

Agressive setup is a good setup. After months of practice you will improve, mostly at the beginning. *Any PRO will be faster than you with that same setup. If after that you feel out of pace in the lobbies you race, try paid setups. They are not the holy grail, i mean if a PRO does 2:16, maybe you are not able to do even 2:18… because of the handling. I have tried some paid setups and I am faster but the negative side is that chances of crashing multiply, so i prefer to build my own which is kind of a middle ground between PRO-agressive

I had the same problems with the aggresive setups in ACC and after weeks of trying I spent some money to a racing team which make also good videos on RU-vid. Driving the cars makes now much more fun! You can spend so much thousands Euros into rigs, wheels and pedals, that this money is like nothing. And who is talking about, if direct drives or load cells are pay to win, when having "only" a G29?!

Also, wtf is the line out of Blanchimont into the bus stop, just straightline it, that’s a tenth right there for free

Funny, reported this off things long LONG time ago in AC and they transferred it to ACC. It is bit of a shame, guess making sales (the suit department) with ACC was more important than finishing AC and than move on to ACC.

I miss playing ACC. I basically stopped when Sim Grid stopped daily races. Online lobbies are horrid, and Low Fuel is way to hard to even get into.

I mainly race, iracing. And I have a subscription to. VRS Set up shop. There are a lot of guys on iracing They say, I won't buy a setup but yet, they'll pay $14.00 a month.$14.00 each car. And. And $15 a track. But won't spend $9 extra a month To always have a good. Like you just said. with the set up the The car was much more. So they're spending all this money. And for $9. They're missing out on a lot more fun.

Will they patch the exploits?

I dont think i would pay for setups i get my setups from youtubers who show them for nothing.. but they are handy as I'm using a setup from a RU-vid now and I've moved up from AM to AM sliver also using a g29 but now i can get a race time of 2.19.8 on spa.

Tried some paid setups for different tracks and cars, seems that the exploits are the same across these combinations so it’s to do with the physics engine rather than model specific settings. I used this same approach to make more setups and they were all faster and more stable than the aggressive preset. Don’t think of it pay to win, more like pay to show the exploits. Will be interesting to see if the new updates affect this.

That's always been the problem. I found the same in F1 codemasters games over a decade ago. The effect of changes to setup didn't line up with common sense real world. In iRacing I've paid for sets from VRS which were quick then got setups from aliens which were vastly different, easier to drive, and over a second a lap faster. And again, the way it was setup made no sense. It's not exactly pay-to-win though is it? We can all, if we invest time in exploring combinations, stumble on the alien-fast setups.

I have done a lot of A/B testing on many tracks, my results are that with the bought setup, i am generally 1-2 seconds faster in both hot laps and race pace comparing to default setup. However, those setups no longer work in 1.9. Everything from base safe or aggressive to bought set ups all undrivable at this point. I stopped ACC and move to iRacing now. I dont care about setup, just give me something so i can enjoy driving and racing.

Setting up your FFB is more beneficial

I bought a full set of Stups for the BMW M4 and have to say it did not make me much faster then before (maybe .2 or .3 of a sec faster). What it did for me is it makes much more fun to drive the car because i can just go online a don't have to think about the setup, only thing i have to change is the tire pressure and then i have a good car to drive on every Track. And it is really cheap to just buy the setups instead of doing them over and over again and still not be happy with it.

Wonder how much of it is subliminal. Like you car is faster after its been washed, or some colors are faster. If you "think" you are in a faster set up you'll drive differently

Yes, it is. Without a good setup, you are ~1.5sec slower. So you either have time and very good knowledge of how to build setups or you have to pay. Aggressive setups are terrible.

Annnnd with possible next physics update, will those "paid" setups. straight to the bin? Not to mention using exploits in official races should always result in ban.

I can't even get my LFM license so setups are the least of my problems.

But test it in a hotstint. Comparing hotlaps is best when you have a qualifying setup. But that wasn't your intention here, or was it?

Ok, I have only just watched the first 3 minutes so, as yet don't know the outcome, but one thing always seems off with these kind of comparisons and that is the first part of the test is always with the so-called lesser setup. So by the time the better setup is used the driver has got the rhythm of the circuit and, in my view, will likely be quicker anyway unless the setup is completely useless. What would be ideal would be after the better setup test, then go back to the basic setup to see if the lap times on that setup have remained consistent with the first session. Otherwise, for me, the results are not reliable.

Please don't cover the HUD in the corners with your camera the next time 😢

Stop sandbagging and show us them tyre pressures 😂😉

Fixed setup for all > open setup for all (change my mind)

Surely The [Esports] setup is more great then ACC setup, But the skill still is the point

DaveGaming said, that, since the last Update, the preset setups are just shit. And on yt u can find fast setups. Even they are a for previous updates, with some setup changes they are working fine

now add to the bank the prices of a newer GPU/CPU , plus some good pedals and a DD wheel of your choice...

1. Will the new update coming mid April render the existing bought setups useless? 2. If you bought a setup, will the seller do an update for free?

You should have set tire pressure correctly.

For me it's pay to midfield😂 I really need Coach Dave setups to compete as i find the defaults very understeery and i have neither the time nor knowledge to create my own. And now with their Delta for only a tenner a month its not exactly pay much to win considering how much the sim rig bits cost. Nobody said this pastime was cheap!

but why don't you share the settings ? i mean, then it wouldn't be pay to win anymore ?

This is why Sim racing will never be fun at the very top end. At least in our lifetime, maybe when someone creates a 100% realistic perfect Sim in 100 years. Middle split will always be the most fun.

Setups are the main reason I never got onboard with ACC. I prefer the ease of the fixed races on iRacing. ACC should really look into fixed setup races

iRacing is even worse in like the GT3's or LMDh's. A generic paid setup like one from VRS is only good enough for mid pack now of days and a fully developed setup is needed to win top splits. Casual players like Casey Kirwan don't drive in open setup races regularly because of this.

no easter eggs here 😂🐣☝🏽

I will never buy setups, I would rather mess around with setups myself but the fact that you can exploit the physics in acc and the tire pressures being overly sensitive drove me away to rf2 and iracing where I can just jump into a session once a week and have a fun race. Actually AC1 open lobbies have been fun lately. shout out to the Mazdas at brand's hatch server pumping out some great racing this week.

the problerm is that its difficult to make setups because you need stupid setings to get fast and these setups have nothing to do with real setups so you can t build logical setups you must try crazy things and in had no time to make such setups. i bought setups and i was 1.5 seconds faster without much driving but when i look ant the setings that i bought there are complete bullshitt settings if you compare with real setups

Setups can only affect your times if you are already at the limit. I always laugh at people that are 3 seconds off the pace buying setups thinking it's going to help.

well, its not really pay to win. You can only do it one time. And also you can change the setup yourself. Or look at free setups online. There are enough out there! And in every simrace game it is about exploiding the physics and the game code. Thats always the case. But there are 2 things Kunos can do. Or change this physics so they become more realistic. Or, give this information about the physics exploids to every player! Just put them in the game.