Is An EPDM Rubber Roof Strong Enough To Walk On? 

Absolutely nothing wrong with todays mineral felts its the incorrect application on badly designed flat roofs.

I have the same question. What is the insulation spec? Or put it another way, what can you put EPDM onto? Does it need to be fibre backed or would something like TR-27 be the best product?

No worries!

Just got back from Texas and have been using it out there in 100F I don't recommend using EPDM if you haven't got insulation under it as it gets very hot ( assuming you are living in the room below)

TEXAS? You get around Steve!!! It's a patio roof with an observation deck on top. I am going to ask my installer about putting white EPDM over the black material to cut down on heat and weathering. Its only a 7 x 15 foot deck. Thanks for the information!!!

Dont use epdm in that heat as its 4 years on youve probably figured that out... the primer for the flashing tape will go off instantly it will be impossible to stick down and there will be endless ripples. However! You can get white epdm which solves all of the problems

About 5 years ago I stripped a 30-year-old EPDM roof because the building was being knocked down I pushed and pulled the EPDM and I thought that it had lost about 5% of its elasticity

Yes it will stick

OnlineBackupServices why would a bird of prey land on a rubber roof and extend its beak or talons into it? I could understand a sabre tooth tiger or a Tyrannosaurus rex but definitely not a bird of prey.

Slashley gibbins this is a good point and definitely a situation for a scarecrow....

Why would firestone bother making a roofing membrane that can be destroyed by birds? Believe me they test all this stuff out ive even done my own tests such as trying to pull it apart with various tools, cutting it with blades of different sharpness, it even survived 15 seconds under the direct heat of a blow lamp and still went back to shape

No never used the 1.5 mm rubber, however have handled it. It is a lot heavier so hard to lay in big sheets but realistically like you I can't see the point of it. Over the years I have really abused EPDM rubber, I've used it as a tarpaulin in the back garden to cover over bikes and odds and sods I've never snagged it all made up then on it even when you're pulling it from the corner with all its weight you don't stick your fingers through it it doesn't tear.

'...Check shoe bottom for nails or rocks before walking on, pick up loose nails or screws you find ( hvac repairman)...' in our areas those are the most common and avoidable caused of leaks cuts and punctures. HIVAC service is the primary craft responsible too.

Trust me now epdm roof membrane is not the same as epdm pond liner the roofing membrane contains certain chemicals that will kill all the fish dont ask how I know

Unfortunately the sound coming from a metal roof or any roof that is solid is extremely hard to stop you need to put something on it that's soft

Buy them they're plastisol coated and will last forever

Hi Paul did you manage to finish your block and beam flat roof if so what did you do to achieve the final results as I’m in the same boat trying to finalise what to do thinking of insulation epdm and then concrete Thanks

@@RayRay-vt7hcwe layed the EPDM straight on top of the block and beam, then put plastic sheet, then concreted it and slabbed on top.

@@Paul_Hassell hi that’s great as Mrs was hinting can we finish it with paving slabs after concrete and what size epdm did you use 1mm or 1.5mm and did you place the slabs or concrete in an angle 📐 so the water can be directed to the channels or a hopper and how did you finish off and sealed the epdm on the sides did you cut to size exactly or did something else and did you glue epdm or just simple lay and concrete thanks

@@RayRay-vt7hc The rubber itself is 1.5mm and with the fleece back its probably about 3/4mm, and yes we had a fall on the concrete, and being as it was a large slab we put a couple of slits in the concrete as expansion joints. Hope this helps

@@Paul_Hassell thanks for all your feedback greatly appreciated our roof span is 8 meters by 7 meters

Absolutely fine to leave it exposed to rain, sun, snow, hail or whatever

There's a lot of people out there that do it wrong including this guy. There can be a few mistakes that lead to ripples number one is the adhesive you use youre meant to use a water based CONTACT adhesive meaning you apply it on both the rubber and the deck (which shouldn't be ply) the glue that you get from firestone isn't the best but let's use that for example as it is the right type of glue not PVA the glue has a blueish tint to it and the main property of the glue is that it does not dry fully kind of like tackifier meaning when heated the rubber can lift up ( which is normal because there's no way of stopping this) but the main thing is it will actually stick back down to the board once cooled however if you use the wrong glue say PVA it will fully dry under the rubber and when heated it will peel up but will not stick back down again. Secondly the type of boards you use with ply it can be very strong if you are trying to bend it but if you try to pull it apart like what the rubber does its very weak and either the glue holding the veneer together will give way or the veneer will split away from itself the contact adhesive really is that strong ive seen it many times. thirdly you get idiots like this thinking its okay to stick the membrane straight onto the insulation and the same problem will happen here as with the ply but a whole lot easier you know yourself how weak insulation is and how easily the foil peels off. Those are the main reasons you can see ripples or bubbles I hope this gives you a different opinion of EPDM there's a lot of people out there giving it a bad name and not many who do it properly if you're gonna do it do it right

Keep in mind that on a hot day a roof that is done correctly will ripple but it wil also stick back down once it has cooled off

Noyour not supposed to

Dont listen to this guy who calls himself "flatroofer" please you should lay the insulation on the timbers then boards over that then 200mm countersinking wood screws through to the joists there is no other proper way

If you're ever struggling for height and you need to be down by 120mm or so you can cut the insulation and fit then between the timbers its not ideal but that way is also fine

I asked the insulation manufacturers about this and all said do not do it. They said the problem is that the insulation compressive strength is measured over an area not a point load, so unless the tops of your joists are perfectly level and flat, there will be an array of point loads into the insulation underside which will cause it to compress. PIR insulation does not recover from point loads and so you could end up with soft spots on your roof

If you do this how do you install the VCL, which must be under the insulation on a warm roof build-up?

Yes no doubt about it a lot of fitters also provide a 25 year guarantee on the roof with a life expectancy of 50 years firestones words not mine I once stripped a roof off a Conservative club which was 64 years old (epdm has been around that long) and the rubber membrane itself was completely fine not perished or brittle or anything the problem with the roof was water getting in through where the rubber was stuck to the skylight tapes and adhesives weren't quite up to scratch in those days

Its also faster, easier, better looking if done right, no flame required which means not hauling big bottles of propane up the ladders the only disadvantage is the price thats it

There all much the same we like touse the 1.5mm thick rather than the 1.2mm as its not that more expensive. we buy all of ours from www.rubber4roofs.co.uk my promo code is LFR 2016 I think if not just ask any they will give the new one and you will get 10% off

John's manville is the best then firestone i wouldn't recommend classic bond to anyone those are the three main ones

@@kaicooper5917 firestone is the original manufacture of epdm and is by far the best the system is far better and I can stand water based glue I wouldnt use it to stick wall paper up yet alone stick a roof down

@@nickydavies4 funny how thats the stuff firestone recommend for sticking epdm to osb

@@kaicooper5917 they dont recommend it they allow it on roofs smaller than 100 square meters

Its firestone 1.2 mm thick EPDM rubber

Which is very thin not 1.2mm to confuse the public that doesn't use the metric system but .045 inches. Less than a nickle.

A lot harder to do with OSB three because you have to take into consideration it's if it gets wet or even damp how does that work

+Ravi Sunny Kumar The EPDM rubber we use is 1.2mm thick

+Steve Roofer, so that's about 45 mills. thanks for sharing.

No, thats .045 inches thick. Not 45 mill

Right, 1 mill is .001

Most of the EPDM rubber we use is 1.2 or 1.5 mm in thickness

@@kaicooper5917 60mils (0.060)

@@Charlotte_Photographer yes sorry I misread that

If the specs say 60 mil use 60 (1.5mm) i would suggest for anything else use 1.2 its more than strong enough, can make a big difference on cost if the roof is big obviously not a normal garage roof and its lighter

@@kaicooper5917 The job was 2 years ago. We ended up using TPO instead of EPDM. We had 40 buildings that were about 3000 sq ft each.

Cats arms do not have the force of a hammer also 2mm is very very thick for epdm its thin for a reason, because it can be its a lot tougher than it looks if you have a sharp knife you'll have to apply moderate pressure which may not seem like a lot to you but for an animal to do that its impossible they simply haven't got enough weight to them so let your cat free

It doesn't mate dont worry

Stretching or shrinking in EPDM s a well-known factor. Any large flat roof should have perimeter fixings to the EPDM as per the manufacturer's specifications. Back in the 70s this was a big problem, but the manufacturers of the EPDM have A) changed the EPDM makeup, so it shrinks less B) recognised the problem and specified perimeter fixings. Follow the manufacturer's specification on all products.

Steve Roofer thanks for this. I used to have Duradek on my deck and it pulled away from the edge after 5 years. My new contractor put this stuff on it this week and when the Duradek folks finally showed up to look at it for the warranty, they told me that I would not be able to walk on it . My contractor told me not to put furniture directly on it. I have ordered artificial turf to put over it which should resolve the scratching issue Knowing that it is less prone to shrinking is helpful

🤣

Of course it is. EPDM doesnt like sharp objects though. I saw one pierced easily when a roofer had a copper nail caught in the sole of his boot but that said, its all about using the right product for the situation and most importantly the people that install the product have to be skilled enough to overcome all issues when fitting.

We did a new EPDM roof on Henreys the 8th Palace at Hampton Court, the old lead roof was eaten away by squirrels. Ten years on and nothing has eaten the EPDM rubber roof. I've never seen or had cats or birds damage reported to me.

U are not supposed to stick EPDM to foil backed PIR insulation. There are fleece lined insulation boards that must be used for warm flat roofs where a membrane is to be adhered directly. The fleece is mechanically bonded into the insulation and impossible to tear off, unlike foil. I think Steve is used a standard PIR board here to demonstrate impact, he doesn't imply this is correct material for fixing to does he?

If you watch to the end you see I do use the end of a hammer even sharper than a claw hammer. Name me a roofing material you can abuse like this Asphalt would smash Mineral felt would puncher I don't know of a flat roofing materials that wouldn't brake or puncher with this sort of abuse

rick baker ... the world is waiting for negative... and if the claw end of claw hammers are to fall from the sky we will all have leaky roofs..cars..heads...

Ply is better than OSB

@@faz.. im not arguing with cowboys on here sorry

@@MrFlatroofer who said otherwise?

@@MrFlatroofer please don't tell me you're a flat roofer in real life...

Pick hammer yes... pen no the pen broke who would need to stick a pick hammer through their roof?

GRP is brittle and would smash and crack! Do you do GRP? have you seen the video I did last week on GRP? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_7m7vFqBO-E.html GRP as a fantastic material but brittle.

thats wtf i was wondering too....talk about lack of common sense...he cant be a worker. his hands are way too pretty to be a roofer.

Perhaps but we don't have racoons in the UK the best we have are squirrels, and I've replaced a flat lead roof that was being eaten by the squirrels with an EPDM rubber flat roof, and it's been OK for seven years now.

Perhaps but we don't have racoons in the UK the best we have are squirrels, and I've replaced a flat lead roof that was being eaten by the squirrels with an EPDM rubber flat roof, and it's been OK for seven years now.

Ply over first is the way I alway wont to go, unfortunately, lots of customers won't cheep flat roofs and that exactly what they get, It will last but it's not as bullet proof as it could be if the EPDM was laid over OSB and we alway use tung and groove OSB

WithoWithout a doubt go over the insulation with Ply or OSB we use Tunge and grooved OSB over the insulation its leads to a lovely roof. Manufacturers of insulation suggest that you can just go over the insulation with the EPDM. This may save money, but it's not as good.ut

This flat roofer guy on about "its not a warm roof" the rubber doesn't need to be touching the insulation to be a warm roof it is sealed around all edges by wall trims, gutter trims, cap trims and silicone on top of that also all rubber roofs no matter how big or small MUST be mechanically fixed using trims and screws around the whole perimeter you cant just glue a trim on and thing that it will last

Epdm is not vulnerable to beaks dont worry😂👍

When you feel the stuff yourself you'll see how tough it is