At the least, I think the reason Bruce doesn't kill is because he recognizes he doesn't have the mental faculties to only do it once. He can't kill the Joker, despite the lives it would save, because he might become something far worse. (And usually does.)
I think an interesting thing to look at is who these two target. Both might be called insane. However Bruce targets criminals and keeps his actions out of the lethal range. Joker kills and maimes to target show the chaotic nature of the world. It’s almost like the nature of their trauma is what chose their target
I call bull on that notion that he never cripples his targets. That situation played out in literally every other fight I've ever had in the Arkham games, to the point where if they're somehow still capable of walking at the end, that's a small miracle. Based on my cursory readings of the comics over time, I've come to the conclusion that even if he doesn't deliberately want to hurt people, he does want to make sure they can't get away or must remain immobile in some fashion. Not an entirely unreasonable conceit, but I can see how some could say he takes this ideal too far sometimes.
Has Batman put a lot of suspects in wheelchairs, walking with white canes and sunglasses or riding short buses for life and collecting disability checks?
6:30 "Batman didn't even tell the others that these plans existed." I won't use the word insane for . . . well, legal reasons, but Tyler, are you nuts? If you're going to prepare contingency plans for dealing with a variety of superpowered individuals, warning them you've done so is the last thing an intelligent man would want to do. That's pretty much telling them "If you do snap, or get mind controlled or whatever, the first thing you should do is take me out before I can activate my plan for dealing with that situation."
10:51 ok to be fair, he told Jason to stay away from the situation and when he got killed he at least tried to bring him back befor finding another one. I may be bias, but I'm still on Bat Man's side. He feels his emotions and stays true to his beliefs, his process may be alittle corrupted, but he is human, a perfect mentality system is pretty much impossible. Edit (2 years later): I just made the connection that Batman is supposed to be an agent of justice because of criminal injustice. He was a financial benefactor of his parents fortune and when he learned that the world is a chaotic place that takes whatever it wants he vowed to be his own agent of justice. The Joker has a bit of a different story despite how similar they seem. His back story isn't necessarily the clearest but his take away from that one bad day was that order was the problem. Any system of order is inherently flawed and as an agent of chaos he made it his mission to show that to the world and expose systems of order for their flaws. And that is why the Joker works so well as a batman villain. Even though he knows he is evil the point of his character is to destroy the concept of what good even means. And after a re-watch I think this video is a good example of why the Joker is kinda right. Batman's idea of good is flawed but the Joker goes far beyond even just Batman's idea. He doesn't even only target the justice system, in some of what I think are his best iterations, he stirred chaos among other villains and criminals, because he doesn't make an exception for organized crime and well thought out schemes. The problem with that thought process is that it justifies evil by radicaly undermining what it means to be good. And this brings me back to my point. Batman may have good intentions but I think his idea of what it means to be a hero can still be classified as unjust or even evil. Another thing I think makes him the perfect character for this role is that he was born into his fortune. The world he grew up in has been good to him and he views what happened to his parents as an exception to what is otherwise a good world, a world that is only bad because of criminal activity. And I would even go a step further than Tyler and say that not only are his means kind of insane. The ends to which he justifies them are insane, not only is his code flawed, the goal he is trying to achieve is inherently flawed, which is something I think we can actually learn from the joker. It sounds good on the surface to want to end crime. But his vision is (as far as I can tell) to do so within the system that breeds it. He has little sympathy for criminals and he makes no effort to change the system that leads people to commit crimes in the first place. Instead of using his fortune to help the desperate, he is using it to in effect become another enforcer, galvanizing the desperate to organize against him. The Joker being his arch nemesis makes alot of sense because in Batman's view criminals want to break the law and that justifies his perception that all criminals therefore are insane. (maybe that's why he sends the Joker to Arkham instead of an actual prison). This is evidenced by the way he sometimes tries to help criminals; he thinks that they are broken and in need of fixing without seeing how broken he is himself. I mean what really is the difference between Batman indoctrinating several Robin's and a gang indoctrinating a kid to steal for them. Batman and the robins even expressly use violence as a means of achieving their goals. Under the surface the Joker might actually be more sane than Batman, really the only reason batman thinks the Joker is insane is because the Joker takes batman's world view and holds it up to him like a mirror. "I'm the good guy I can't be the crazy one...right?" but his reluctance to put an end to the Jokers violent schemes is just enough to let us know that he is questioning it.
5:31 he does this because if one of them turned evil he would stop them,before criticising batman watch the episode of justice league where he gets kicked out.
Batman doesn't kill beacuse he is more than a man. He is a symbol. A symbol of hope for the short sighted of Gotham that *there is a better way*. He is *selflessly* willing to endure the pain of having inoccent people's blood on his hand because because otherwaise, the symbol will become corrupt. The Joker will have been right all along, and Gotham's soul (and so will it's people's) will break.
"Batman is always prepared" OBVIOUSLY HE AINT RIGHT IF THIS IS TRUE Really think about this -Imagine being on guard 24/7 your entire life -Imagine treating every ineteraction including private moments with friends and family as something to be observed for tactical advantage -Imagine having a legit contingency to neutralize or kill every person you have ever met -imagine investing your entire life with the explicit purpose of a single goal to the exclusion of everything else -Imagine literally training to seriously fight against magic, mind control, and supernatural entities -imagine staring death, ACTUAL DEATH in the face and sarcastically saying "boo" The man is built DIFFERENT
Of course he is, what mortal man witnesses his loving parents’ murder, becomes consumed by vengeance, trains under the most elite of elite, and THEN dresses as a bat? That’s not even considering Batman of Zur-En-Arrh. Batman is insane, but he’s the most sane insane man.
Wait.... So he knew he was going to go insane so he prepared a strict code that would keep his insanity from becoming dangerous... That's another level of prep time, probably his most important.
@@aaronrachiele5521 How not? I didnt say they were the same. I just stated that they both have a strict code that they stick to. Each for their own reasons. That code drives everything they do, and in that respect I'm am absolutely correct.
@@maximilianraley2457 Ohh, ok. No disrespect or quarrel, and I understand what your saying, but Dexter( great show ) having a moral and personal code, and Batman being determined to stay sane, by such extreme lenghths have nothing to do with each other.
😅 And honestly, this is why I'm not a fan. People compare Iron Man to Batman, but I use this to show the massive difference. I don't like reading about a character that I perceive to be so selfish, hypocritical, twisted, and yet encouraged. But hey, just because I can't stomach it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as a deep and rich character study with some of the most compelling narratives in DC. You do you, Demon Knight. You do you. 👍🏽
I remember this thing my dad asked about the Batman being crazy, he asked,” Is he crazy if he was right?” Because most of the time, the things he prepared for came true and he stopped it.
@@johnchris7278 I know that. The entire plot of the LEGO Batman movie was Joker wanting to be Batman's villain, basically a relationship. I was just referencing that.
The difference between Batman and Joker isn't in their past, but what they became afterward. The answer to the question, is Batman insane is found in a quote: "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... YOU BLINKED."
William Garcia basically joker wasn’t afraid to blink/go blind in the face of darkness while Batman is staring at it keeping his eyes locked in fear of going against what he wants to represent
That whole "planning to kill the Justice League" bit sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It's not paranoid when countless times the heroes have been controlled, manipulated, had an evil duplicate, or simply turned bad. When they're not just a threat to you, but the entire world. Whether they're his friends or not, it's logical and rational to create some plans to stop them. Hardly a sign of insanity just because it seems disloyal or deceitful. He can't tell them all about them because then they could come up with countermeasures to make the whole plan not work.
@@user-kd5th1fo2r Ok, he didn't personally lit him on fire, but he had PLANS to. I get that it's a weakness of his, but did Batman really have nothing else to use?
The reason for tower babel is that the first villain the justice league fought was starro a mind controlling starfish from space that took over most of the heroes, or the many times the justice lords or crime syndicate showed up or any other evil versions of the justice league before this. Its not paranoia if the situation has happened before
Batman: "If Clark wanted to, he could squash me with his powers. But I know how he thinks. He's weakness is that deep down... he's a good person. And deep down, I'm not."
feel like a lot of Batman's villains are just pieces of his character if left unchecked. Joker is Batman's obsession to make the world what he sees as better Bane is Batman's physical superiority and ability to dominate most people to achieve his means. The Riddler is if his genius was corrupt Penguin is the greed that could come from his vast wealth Mr. Freeze is if his deep connection and obsession with his loved ones got the better of him and caused him to abandon his morals for their sake or preservation. (Not really sure about Ivy or Catwoman)
@@thesquareeyeball8100 Also I think both Killer Croc and Manbat represent Batman's dark( if not monstrous) side and deepest desires. One out of desperation and the other to be free and wild.
Batman sees the world as black and white, either a person can be good or evil and Catwoman brings the grey to his life that sometimes you may be not evil, it's just the situation ( I learnt it from a documentary) & poison ivy is basically lust
That's true, but it was very selfish and paranoid of him to keep it to himself. Why should he be the only one that knows all this? Is he really so certain that *he* won't snap or get mind-controlled?
The Joker isn’t insane. I think he is super-sane: the sanest character in DC. I think Batman is insane. None of them are sane. They are true opposites: super-sane and insane.
"We don't torture" "We don't cripple" ... Ahem... Ever played a Batman Arkham game or seen the Killing Joke anime adaptation? Batman: "If it appears you were lying, I'll break the other one..." Thug: "The other wh..." Sound an arm being broken Thug screams in agony ... Happens way more often than he would admit...
So if Batman ever kills, he'll become the Punisher like DCEU one who shoots and burns criminals. Though that one never made sense to me because by establishing Batman doesnt have a problem with killing in those movies than suicide squad's joker should be dead meat right now, especially since they threw that headcanon that joker was robin under the bus a while ago
Pinchol.....you obviously never saw Batman V Superman, or the 1989 Batman or Batman returns. All of which you can easily look up his kills on youtube 👉🙂👉
Dceu, original Bob kane comics and hell even dark knight returns/strikes again /master race & 89. However even then he's not frank castle he's more than that due to his symbology and no one knowing he's Bruce Wayne.
I can imagine him going batshit crazy like Batfleck once something horrible happens. Simply losing his faith in humanity - he believes that everyone can be redeemed, or has a chance for redemption, but that could easily change.
Pinchol batman in BvS even kills the people he fights when he was saving Martha. He throws a crate into a man's head and it shows it splatter on the wall. He kills the white Russian guy when he shoots his gas tank on the flame thrower. killed two guys with a grenade. throws a guy through a wall and stabs the last guy onto a wall. car chase. there is no way the people in the car he dragged around survived getting thrown around at high speeds multiple times. then crushes another car with people in it. an SUV roof comes off and a guy with a turret shoots at batman. batman shoots him dead and the car explodes obviously killing the driver. one of the guys in the trailer on the semi with the kryptonite gets crushed by the batmobile and thrown out of it. I barely started and he has already killed more than 10 people. did you not see the ultimate edition?
@@shikigranbell7608 no, it's because she is from a what if story, and by the time she was added to the main story, damien was already a thing so they made her Spoiler
I think that Bruce is crazy and he knows it. Which is why he has to prevent himself from killing. Hell, The Batman Who Laughs is from the Dark Multiverse, which basically details what Batman thinks would happen if he killed the Joker: he goes far off the deep end and kills everyone.
@@DoubleBoost23 He was first subjected to severe mental trauma and his parents death was recreated over and over heroes and villians were killed, and gotham burned. The toxin infecting him was the last part of that. The prime universe batman was able to fight it for a week but that is only because he wasn't subjected to the same trauma the Batman who laughs ways.
He went insane because of the joker toxin within the Jokers body being released upon the Jokers death. I personally would've like it if batman went insane because he killed him and not the joker toxin.
Agreed. Quite honestly I only know that story because of this video. But as smart as superman is I would have expected him to understand why Batman did that. The only reason they are mad is because one single human being, a species the other heroes consider helpless, has found a way to take down every single one of them. That probably hits a nerve with them.
@@maximilianraley2457 Exactly, the people who argue against Batman usually assume that the rest of the Justice League are saints who can do no wrong. That's not true. They are just as corruptible as any human... Maybe even more so considering that some of them have never experienced a true failure unlike most average people. Who's to say what their mental condition would be like after a major dilemma?The Justice League is more powerful than every single government in the world...combined. Batman is pretty much the only "normal" human in the league and as such he should definitely act in humanity's best interests. A plan absolutely has to be put in place even if the worst never comes to pass.
He's not saying it was stupid of Batman to make those plans. What he means is that it was wrong to make them from a moral standpoint. There's a difference between morality and objectivity, to Batman the ends justified the means. The JL as PEOPLE who trusted and saw him as their friend for years have every right to be mad at him for this, especially when it oh so spectacularly backfired on him. Honestly, my main gripe with it is the piss poor security he put around it, Batman of all people should've been able to make better defences than that. You'd think that he would keep the plans to take down some of the world's most powerful heroes more secure. Let's not forget the possibility of him going rogue/ mind controlled/ snapping where his only solution was to take someboby he cares about hostage, which wouldn't work if he went crazy since they'd be the one he kills first( Batman who laughs).
@@justsomeguywhomayormaynoth7441 It would have been wrong for him to not make those plans, from a moral standpoint. These are super powerful beings and mind control, magic, possession, personality swappers, etc all exist in their world. To not have plans to put them down when it's needed, would be not only stupidly naive but also potentially deadly to millions. Refusing to plan for response to disasters is negligent and immoral. Every member of the Justice League should have their own plans to take care of the others.
“Memory’s so treacherous. One moment you’re lost in a carnival of delights, with poignant childhood aromas , the flashing neon of puberty, all that sentimental candy-floss… The next , it leads you somewhere you don’t want to go… …somewhere dark and cold, filled with the damp, ambiguous shapes of things you’d hoped were forgotten. Memories can be vile, repulsive little brutes. Like children, i suppose. Haha. But can we live without them? Memories are what our reason is based upon. If we can’t face them, we deny reason itself! Although, why not? We aren’t contractually tied down to rationality! There is no sanity clause! So when you find yourself locked into an unpleasant train of thought, heading for the places in your past where the screaming is unbearable, remember there’s always madness. Madness is the emergency exit… You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened. You can lock them away… Forever.” *-The Joker, "The Killing Joke"*
Oh come off it with the JLA contingency plans being “inhumane”, Batman makes the perfect argument for why they’re needed. The whole reason he has those plans is so that a scenario like Injustice never comes to pass, plus he makes a plan for himself in case he too turns against his allies, showcasing that he’s perfectly aware of what he’s doing. The issue the JLA had wasn’t even the existence of the contingency plans, it was the fact that Batman never told them he made such plans. Had Bruce been honest about the plans there wouldn’t have even been much of an argument
@@liltaco4119 It’s funny cause I’m the animated movie adaptation, Green Lantern was the only one to see clearly. “I have no problem with Batman’s contingencies, but letting someone steal them was pretty damn dumb”
Albert Einstein I think once said that insanity is doing something the same way over and over and expecting the same results. Sounds like the case with Robin.
My one argument would be that “bringing in Tim was a bad idea” because you kind of implied that Batman didn’t change his opinion at all about having a Robin after Jason died, but in reality he was against having another Robin, and Tim was the one who theorized that Batman needed a Robin to keep him from going down the more extreme path that he begins to take in the year following Jason’s death. Tim is the one who insists on becoming Robin if Dick won’t do it, for Bruce’s sake and for Batman’s. So it’s not exactly that Bruce was like, “There goes another one. Whelp. There has to be another black-haired twelve year old boy somewhere around here.…” *starts scanning crowd*
That's exactly how it was in Titans. Once Jason died, Dick finds a whole file in the Batcomputer of "potential Robin recruits", including Stephanie Brown and Carrie Kelly. That really threw me for a loop there. Bruce would NEVER consider another Robin if one died.
The issue with the Babel series being wrong is that, well, batman wasnt in the wrong for gathering that information. They are all beings capable of mass destruction, and its possible they could go rogue or be controlled, and need to be stopped. The only real problem is that his shit got hacked
Yea, this video is playing from a really idealistic bent with the idea that countermeasures aren't a good idea to have in a world full of mind controllers and parallel dimension evil dopplegangers.
Yeah, I agree that those countermeasures were absolutely necessary, but still, a normal person doesn't calculate the things told to him by friends in moments of trust and figure out ways to kill or incapacitate them. His plan for Martian Manhunter is literally to burn him to death. Necessary though it may be, can you think about how hard it would be for you to conceive of doing something like to someone you cared about and respected? Accepting that his measures are reasonable and necessary, just think about the kind of person you have to be to envision ways to kill and maim your friends. The part that really struck me was his plan for Kyle. Kyle is ultimately a regular human with an incredibly powerful piece of technology. Not a real metahuman, not an alien or an amazon, but a person who can take his ring on and off, and his powers along with it. As smart as keeping countermeasures is, someone who hears a friend tell them that losing their sight would make them less of themselves and then go and think "yeah, that's a good center for a contingency plan against them" is not entirely healthy and socially well-adjusted.
As we've seen from a fair few of the DC franchise's materials, it is entirely possible for each of the big name supers to go bad in some way or another. Or otherwise be made into a person that does NOT do the good/right thing. And as the Joker points out a few times, people are just one sufficiently bad day away from just losing their grasp on the commonly held right and wrong and developing their own blue and orange morality. So yeah, Batman is completely justified in the grand scheme of things. He NEEDED to collect that information so that the Justice League, which in and of itself was a few bad choices or a few bad days away from going bad, could be stopped. This likely would NEED to include himself. Plus, as we know, he did have some nonlethal contingencies that he would PREFER to enact if at all possible BEFORE moving on to the lethal stuff. It may be natural to pause and be all "Wait... You planned to kill me this way?! OR that way?!" but two layers of context missing there: Bats doesn't kill if he can help it and just 'cause they go bad doesn't mean they necessarily STAY bad. Meaning there is a chance to save them and be the biggest of the big damn heroes for managing to do so. And as the Imaginary Axis himself points out from the canon, Bats' shit got hacked. So it's not Batman's fault that the League went down so much as the bad guys' fault for enacting the plans and removing those plans from the context of "If these guys stray from common morality, do these things." Yes, he did come up with the plans but CONTEXT. That's important and SOMEONE had to. Even if they didn't like it or want to. Even Superman would agree that if they stop doing good or cross specific lines, they need to be stopped.
Sadly, no, its not that hard to conceive. We do it every day. Especially as parents, I check the doors, I make sure my weapons are safe, ready to use and put in places with easy access if you are allowed to use them. I'm retired military as well, so that may impact my world view, but at the same time, it also gives me more insight into the real dirty nature of mankind. Trust is something earned and maintained. I don't even give out keys to my house to family that doesn't live with me. Call it paranoid, I call it common sense. Thats excluding world altering power and civilization destroying capabilities.
Axis seem to have invented an ideal situation for himself in the babel-scenario that should go something like this: - I am a sucker for lollypops, they pretty much depower me completely. - Great then I'll give you one and beat the shit out of you if you ever turn evil. - WOAH I Thought we were just having a conversation as friends here! - Oh, ok. I guess I'll find some other way to bypass your immortality, superspeed and world-busting powers then. Anyone who can place themselves in the situation Batman was in would have done the same as he did if they were just a tiny bit smart. The part where he fucked up was the accessability of his plans, revealing them or even their existance would have taken out his edge.
Plus batman is completely right to be cautious of his friends, just look at injustice, superman became a dictator killed people who spoke out against him and murdered his 12-14 year old fan because he brought up his wife, and DON'T even get me started on the villains that can use mind control, like the DC rebirth superman vs lex luthor.
Each robin was a completely different person and he does not kill what else would he do with them and by that logic your saying police are insane by just doing their job every day
@@kaibaboy3374 Not really, we're not expecting different results but the same results, which is a happy and healthy mind and body, if you're expecting to have an exciting life doing the same 9-5 over and over then yeah that's insane, but expecting it to never change but still be okay with it isn't insanity. The full Einstein quote is "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again... but expecting different results"
@@RobotguyHsss what makes it insane is that he just beats people up, throws them in Arkham and to change when he knows they won’t, he’s doing something over and over expecting a different result but keeps getting the same one
@@straightface8564 he doesn't EXPECT them to change he just hopes they do. One of the reasons batman doesn't kill is because he believes that there are other ways to deal with people, to change them instead of getting rid of them which to me makes sense. And the criminals he catches are almost always mentally ill ( joker harley quinn ect.) So he doesn't really have another choice, he can't kill them but he can't just let them go free aswell.
The fine line Batman walks between sanity and insanity, and his imperfect moral compass is largely what makes him so great and interesting to me. He's well aware of his flaws and vulnerabilities and fights to overcome them and in spite of them. It's clear that none of the Robins (except likely Damian) need Batman, he needs them. Them and Alfred are the closest things to moral and sane anchors he has. It's been pointed out numerous times that there are few things separating the Joker from Batman, that's largely why the Joker is so obsessed with him. Batman is a broken man trying to do the right thing and protect those who cannot protect themselves. The Joker is a broken man who just wants to watch the world burn, regardless of who gets hurt. Though the Joker and Batman suffered similar pain, it's what they want and try to do with that pain that strongly defines them, even if their methods can sometimes be similar or have unclear moral consequences. Batman's imperfections and dark nature become ever more clear when he teams up with Superman; their dynamic as best friends is very intriguing and fun to depict. Batman is my favorite superhero, so I find it weird when ppl think it's something new to point out his instability and unhealthy behaviors and perspectives. This fact is clearly depicted in literally all media of him from comics to cartoons to movies and video games (as was to clearly and well laid out in this video). Anywho, great video; I love analyzing Batman and the dynamics of his character and that of those around him.
He helped Dick to grow from his trauma and he turned out fine, He helped jason, till the joker killed him, and Superman gave batman the kryptonite. And he needed to help them for his own trauma of being helpless. But he is not the sanest person. He needs to fight criminals to function. And calls himself batman in his mind.
His arguments with the Robins is that they WILL get into trouble whether he's there or not. So he's trying to guide them so they don't become another monster on the street. He's preventing the rise of another Joker or Mister Freeze or Penguin.
It's a fun & intriguing theory but psychologists have analyzed batman and his rogues gallery and it turns out that none of them are insane. Some do have psychological disorders though, like the Riddler's OCD for leaving clues. Heard it in an audiobook called "Batman and Psychology: A Dark and Stormy Knight".
Hmm thats cool but when it comes to comic books characters idk if its better to trust a comic book nerd who studies a bit of psychology for youtube vids or a psychologist who studies a bit of comic books. Subject matter expert vs issue at hand expert. Hmm
@@UncleForHire I see it as Batman is so complex in his character that we can have different and opinions views on his psyche. Hell almost every version of Batman has a different a psyche.
I remember in Marvel comics after Cival War, when cap was shot, Thor came back and realized what Tony did to cap and beat the s*** out of him because you don’t do stuff like that to your friends! I like to see heroes just kinda re-examine their motives and actions after a big event
IPlayVideoGames [GD] another fanboy denying the truth, don't get me wrong i love batman since i was a little kid but in handsight this is actually true that he might be insane in some capacity
While I agree it was fairly obviously a joke, the problem is that it's exactly the answer you'd imagine a Batman fanboy would give. You know the sort I'm talking about, the ones who think Batman would find a way to beat everyone in the omniverse regardless of whether they have an exploitable weakness or not for no reason other than that "He's Batman".
*In the voices of Adam West and Burt Ward* Batman: "Hold on Joker. I'll hit you with my Bat-Sanity Spray." Robin: "Did you have that this whole time?!"
I know why he doesn't kill. And if you don't, look at it from a different perspective. Don't see him as an individual character that makes choices, but rather one of the most popular superheroes of all time that children around the world aspire to be. If he would kill, in his stories it might make sense, but what kind of message would that send to young comic book reading children? They might misinterpret it as "It's okay to kill people who do wrong" not specifying the wrong that it would imply is being done. The creators know this and explain to children in these comics that batman doesnt kill because killing is wrong, all the time. But they also have to explain to their older readers with a more complex and somewhat poetic reason as to why he refuses to end any criminals' life.
Funny he once killed alot in the early comics same with he once used guns commonly it was only when another editor-in-Chief came along and didn't like Batman killing a monster with guns that his using guns and killing fact was axed afterwards, yet Robin still had a kill count for abit going even after Batman stopped the killing and gun usage. So it was more like the Editor didn't want Batman killing but let Robin have a kill count keep going is rather odd to pull if what you say was the main reason back then . So the thing is that aspesct only really was a fact after Batman became even more well known that it was a fact the writers and such write him like that
Lloyd Landrum, you do know that's back when racism and such was still showed in cartoons and comics right? But no, let's point our fingers at Batman and Robin for killing people because that was the main problem with our cartoons and comics, killing, how offensive.
It was a contingency plan just in case one of the justice league members go rogue, he even puts one for himself. Why the hell would he tell the other members? So they would be ready right before going rogue?
Batman is the security officer, his job is to make sure there is a contingency for every situation, whether its an alien invasion, multidimensional threats, gods, demons, or rogue/alternate leaguers, in fact him being "part time" actually facilitates that role as he is outside of the influence of whatever might affect the league as a whole and observe critically from theboutside
Yeah. He knows if time comes he would have to resort to killing and that would make him the thing he don't want to. He wants to make a world (or at least a city) where no one wants to kill other person, and to begin that he have to be one of them.
hmm that would be correct come to think of it. Maybe he thinks guns are too quick and easy to access and put someone on a tshirt so he risks the knives??? not sure on that i remember reading the gun thing i mentioned in my main comment from a comic book.@@Eternally_Listless
It's Smash Time by what he says in the stories of him dealing with it he very well is aware and actively holds himself back everytime. I think it makes him more... "human" in that even the caped crusader is just a mentally damaged man who yearns for his parents.
I feel like they should show this in the comics as him being insane and explore his character a bit more and this would not make him a perfect human like everyone sees him as, he is actually vulnerable, and he is not that different
Eddy The Martian They have. Read Batman: Arkham Asylum - A Serious House On Serious Earth or Batman: The Killing Joke, those talk about it. Hell, even in Watchmen, Rorschach is supposed to be Batman if he were in the real world.
I never got why they decided to make that a thing. It's like he's saying I'm not going to do something immoral like kill a murderer while he's murdering...I'll leave that to the cops...with guns. I'll just play with him using my toys and give him a chance to kill as many people as possible until a cop can figure out how to put a bullet in him
Unfortunately, the bat man who laughs knew his own contingencies and destroy them. Batman if he’s as smart as he is should’ve created contingencies that he himself doesn’t know (ie hiring someone, random plans, memory erasing, idk)
+The Imaginary axis On the other hand, What if Batman is actually supersane like the joker? I mean have you noticed how whenever he does something so improbable that people question how he does it he always responds with, "I'm Batman." Maybe...just maybe that's because he KNOWS he's Batman and he can accomplish anything through the power of the author!? O.o just a thought.
I love batman BECAUSE he is nuts. He tries to do good, he tries to do the right thing, he tries to surround himself with those who have a good conscious... but he knows that it wouldnt take much to push him over the edge and become something akin to the punisher. Who is also one of my favorite characters, and who is also clearly out of his mind.
Batman is possibly insane but the problem with an argument of justifiable means is it leads to absolutes “I think I’m rational therefore the ends justify the means “ It’s only through a series of rules or laws we can frame his actions as moral or immoral He doesn’t kill ... often He doesn’t torture ...much He doesn’t use guns ( anymore ) He’s sane enough to know his actions have consequences but thinks his motivations are justified He has enough reason not to kill very often , to use guns unless you count the early canon and to use torture only where necessary The test is whether a judge could consider his rationale as meeting a given standard Given the fact he creates as much crime as he prevents it suggests his reasoning is flawed at best
Since torture violates international law, military law and human rights, makes prisoners confess and accuse others falsely to stop the pain and causes death, disabilities, Stockholm Syndrome and PTSD, it is definitely not justified, despite the "Ticking Time Bomb" excuse often given. The actual motives are sadism, fanaticism and revenge, not interrogation for evidence or tactical data. Like it or not, some moral absolutes (such as "my enemy is wrong for attacking me") are needed for self defense and peaceful co-existence. One may cite the Salem Witchhunts, Abu Gharaib and Nazi Holocaust as examples of torture.
You could even cite the CIA's torture - sorry, *cough* enhanced interrogation *cough* - of terror suspects as proof it doesn't work. Even their own reports have admitted that it doesn't work, though they also keep insisting it's neccessary, which implies a Batman-esque sadism. They even ended up with a completely innocent guy confessing and making up false intel to give them, to get the pain to stop. I think it's been proven that torture doesn't cause Stockholm Syndrome, btw. But yes, it is brutal, dehumanising for both the victim and torturer, and completely unjustifiable. It's definitely part of the reason Batman causes as much crime as he prevents, not even counting the innumerable human rights violations he commits himself. That's why, to me, 1960's Adam West Batman is the only good Batman. A "duly deputised agent of the law' who works closely with the police, never kills or hurts anyone worse than punching them during a fight, and never breaks the law - he even prevents Robin from jaywalking. Although even he is flawed. He has Robin. He drags a 14 year old orphan with maths homework into a fight with an insane clown with a tendency to build death traps. That is criminal endangerment.
Has anyone tried to make a story where the joker and batman switch places. Like batman finally decides to no longer follow his moral code and just becomes evil and the justice League are trying to stop him but are cautious about the contingency plans he has so they try to think of a way to get around his plans and then, out of nowhere, the joker somehow manages to break into the watchtower and decides to help the league and his reasoning, for helping the league, ends up being "I'm the opposite to batman."
There actually is a recent storyline out there called Batman: White Knight, that follows this EXACT setup. Joker goes sane (again) and plans to beat Batman from the inside by exploiting the absurdity of his crusade, portraying Batman as the true criminal through his demeanor, tactics and interactions with criminals. Check it out.
There one major factor that's missing in this video. The Batman you put under the microscope...wasn't Batman. !?!, yeah I know...what the hell. Don't get me wrong here, I Loved the video, but scientifically it's Wrong. You didn't analyze Batman. You analyzed the Group of Batman. The Group of Batman is a Crowd of different iterations of the character since first created by Bob Kane. That was the First Version of the character. That makes One in a Crowd of iterations over the last 75 years. Each version, even the plethora of multiverse versions, is a Stand Alone and independent character. The Number of versions of Batman is the same as the number of WRITERS for the character. Each version of Batman is a reflection of two things, first is the writers Perception of Batman. The second is the mental faculties (stability) of the Writers themselves. Therefore the analysis done in this video absolutely will seem like the conclusion is that Batman in his own way is indeed insane. All of those conflicting points make sense when you try an analyze a Group as you would an individual. Myths and legends work the same way over time. Becoming more a collection of perceptions and stories that Comprise a character. Another facet to consider is that through the lens of psychology the host has forgotten to consider the Cultural lens to add to the mix. Not all societies today would critique the character the same way say when it comes to the Robin's. While the Overall analysis is correct showing Batman to be not insane, but someone conscious and in forethought of their actions is operating under High Functioning PTSD. Using also the Babel story where Bats just in case plan is used against him and the league is Distasteful for certain, I call Prudent Planning. Because in the hands of over eager writers eventually in order to do something New with the characters, writers have taken them out beyond the original Boundaries of the imaginations of the people who created them. Perhaps a video on Which iterations of Batman are Sane or Not over 75 years might be in order. Anyway, great video bub. Liked it a lot. Keep it up.
I think if you break down the core essence of the character, no matter what iteration is being portrayed, you can still leave with an idea of Bruce's mental instability. His parents were killed right in front of him as a kid. That's scarring for a kid. I should know, my father started to die slowly from ALS when I was 9 and eventually died when I was 13. But my mother sent me to therapy soon after, knowing I'd need it. Granted, it did nothing because my therapist was terrible. But eventually I found the therapy I needed and recovered from the trauma. Alfred never took him to therapy. Why? Who the hell knows. But it's pretty messed up. Look where it led. Bruce thought being a vigilante dressed as a bat who fights crime was the logical conclusion to his pain and suffering. And Alfred allowed it. Yes, Bruce is sane, but very, very mentally unstable. He suffers from severe anxiety, depression, self-hate, delusions of grandeur, and thinks hiring kids to fight crime is a-ok. Yeah, he needs help, desperately.
The more you think about this the more it makes sense. Batman insistence on following his code specifically to the letter mirrors another famous psychopath of Pop Culture Dexter Morgan. While their two codes are very different their insistence on an objective morality is interesting. They are both intelligent enough to understand that they can't properly access good vs bad so they use an external compass by which to live.
Actually there was an Earth where he killed the Joker for killing Jason Todd. After that he kills pretty much every major supervillian and makes a kind of utopia where the justice league retires.
I think when it comes to his rule against killing... It’s essentially the most tyrannical thing, basically to assume so much power that you can and have the right to decide whether someone else deserves to live, and Batman is generally someone who fights against tyranny.
It's not tyrannical at all. It would be tyrannical to assume on your own that you know for certain if someone deserves to die or not. He doesn't take that decision into his hands. Tyranny is implicitly rooted in control. Batman does not take that control over someone elses life, therefore he cannot be tyrannical with power he doesn't have. Deciding that someone else has the right to live isn't tyrannical, it's common human decency. This is what Batman believes in. Deciding that someone else has to die isn't common human decency, it's tyrannical (without a reason). This is why Batman never takes it into his own hands.
That’s one of the reasons he doesn’t kill: it’d be tyrannical to decide who deserves to live and die (for example Joker obviously does, but what about Mr Freeze, and Catwoman, and some versions of Harley Quinn) Plus there’s the whole trauma from watching his parents get shot in front of him when he was a child. And the fact that because of this, if Batman were to kill the joker, the odds are he wouldn’t know when to stop. He’d keep killing and killing unable to control himself.
Faulty logic. Joker is insane, period. He dresses like a clown because the vat of chemicals he fell into made him look like one, thus creating his persona. For Batman, the Bat guise is purely tactical. Batman has the skills to fight criminals, but that's not enough. He needs to become something more than a man to the people he's fighting, they need to fear him, so he dresses as something a bit more mythical and intimidating. The thought of a bat-man beating up criminals at night is more unusual and thus scarier than the thought of an ordinary man.
It's not that simple - lot of context...consider this...what's the difference between wearing a police uniform or a soldier's uniform and wearing the outfit of a hero or a villain - all are in essence a thing...just one isn't mandated by government...but doing something illegal doesn't make someone crazy
killakaynyne yeah if you wear a police uniform and you're a policeman your not crazy. If you wear a police uniform and you're not a policeman you might get arrested you may or may not be crazy. You dress like a bat... You're probably crazy. If I walked around dressed like a link butterfly... Like you said. Context.
@@ginoyesano5649 pretty much every hero is a weirdo, and their sanity is at best questionable. Then there's deadpool who is downright batshit insane, but they would be boring if they were normal people
This is why Batman is such a good detective because he’s like Will Graham from hannibal he’s actually insane himself so he knows what an insane mind would do
the one with him making contingency plans for the Justice League wasn't crazy at all take it as there are these people that far exceed normal humans, if they decided to turn against the planet what would be done about it? the government's don't have a way to stop wonder woman or super man if they would have gone crazy Bruce was thinking ahead, he even made a plan for himself if that was the case. Other points like the robin's make sense I can see where that's coming from.
It is also worth considering what his training did to him, I mean those years are always portrayed as lonely and intense. There is only so much a person could take of that. And honestly, I have always thought of Batman as insane, which makes his story more tragic and him more heroic. Because he doesn't just give up on morality, like the Joker. No, he tries to emulate it, because he really wants to do the right thing that much. The times where he messes up, like the Tower of Babel, are some of the best Batman comics, because you can see the cracks in the facade he is putting up.
@@dooomalexA true (super) hero is defined by the number of corpses they left behind, and how much they ENJOYED it. Anybody can be a hero. Heroism is no different from stupidity - the only difference lies in success. But only Plutonian can be true “super hero”. No weaknesses, no limits - just destruction.
142doddy It pretty much is. Yea they say its not for certain and could be a lie told by the joker. And it may not even be a cannon story, but every time a movie or show uses an origin for him the use the killing joke. Its safe to say that its his origin.
I really hate how everyone use the "why doesn't Batman kill the Joker" line like it's just that easy. If Batman kills the Joker, could it be a one time thing? if the Joker is deserving of death than what about Scarecrow or the Penguin or the Mad Hatter or even Two-face? The reason Batman does not kill is because once the door is opened once, it can be opened again... and again and again. The one place that sums this up is in the animated movie Son of batman when he says "You cant fight crime by becoming a criminal". But yes batman is insane or mentally unstable, I thought that was common knowledge.
I just don't see Batman as a judge or an executioner, i see Batman as a differently dressed cop who doesn't go through the paperwork. Remember after Batman brings people in he doesn't have any say so about what happens to them, they could just give them the death sentence but they keep putting them in Arkham. It's not Batman's fault they keep getting put in Arkham or how they keep escaping, he just returns them to the police, what the city of Gotham does with them is out of his hands. Commissioner Gordon doesn't have a no killing rule and i bet he has been in a couple situations where he could have shot the joker and been over with it, so whats his excuse?
Batman bends the rules, but does not break them, not to mention he works with the police and in his spare time with a group of god-like to help them protect the planet, at this point I would not even clasify him as a vigilante anymore.
nathan gillespie Gordon did actually shot the joker in the Endgame story line, but the Joker had in himself at that time dionisiom, some sort of liquid metal that had healing properties, so yeah....
I honestly love how he doesn't talk about how Tim Drake asked to be Robin and Bruce told him "No.", until Dick Grayson talks him into it, and makes it seem like he chose to make Drake a Robin by force.
Dunno if it was covered in the comments, since at time of writing this, there are currently 2,509 comments, but...about the Robins. You've got that whole thing very, very wrong. Dick would have ended up like Bruce or worse if he hadn't been allowed to help get justice for his family. Jason was a basically homeless street urchin who tried to steal the tires off the Batmobile, and probably would have ended up dead after trying to steal from Penguin, Two Face or Black Mask. Tim figured out who Batman and the original Robin were. Nothing would have stopped him from fighting crime, and Bruce knew that. Damien was raised from birth as an assassin, one more than capable fo handling any criminal in Gotham, and even then, Damien pretty much just stole the mantle of Robin. Also, insofar as killing goes, Bruce doesn't for two reasons: he knows it's up to the courts, not him, to decide...and he knows he'd never stop. Some people disregard that excuse, but if a person KNOWS they'd get a taste for killing after taking that first step, them not doing it is a service. Imagine Batman at his best, with all the training, intellect and tech...then make him a killer.
Heck, according to the New 52/DC Rebirth, it's stated that Dick would've been recruited into the Court of the Owls & Jason would've been a Gotham crime lord had Bruce not interfered in their lives.
