I bought Campy on a steel race bike back in '82, bought other components on Bike Nashbar sales, and have been riding two steel Campy Record and original Super Record bikes since. Campy has always been a class of its own. The stuff just doesn't wear out. Their bearings are automotive class, bulletproof. In '82, if you raced, you used Campy. They're designed by dedicated cyclists, not marketers. I have a set of down tube friction shifters in a box ready to go when the originals fail, but they never did. The Record BB, headset, and wheel bearings are as smooth as silk after 75,000 miles. Tullio was a master. His engineers religiously carried forth his mastery and the brand is still second to none.
Did you know that eBay even sells replacement Super Record (Cobalto) brake pads for your calipers once those 40yo pads dry out and screech on you rims when braking.. I purchased them and fit perfectly! Still have those red Scott Mathauser pads too but I guess the black look OG on the pad holders.
i just last fall bought a campy wheel set. (the g3 spokes are just visually appealing). my old road bike also has campy wheels. campy groupset... well i wouldve bought one if it had come with the bike, but 105 to chorus is not worth it really.
My brother, my wife and me own a total of 6 bikes ranging from Campagnolo 9 speed to 10 speed to 11 speed. We have 10 pair of wheels and can easily switch between any of the bike because the Campy wheelsets are compatible with 9, 10, 11 and 12 speed. ~20 years ago, our initial bikes were all Shimano. But Campagnolo is just much more durable and better.
Hi Andreas.Have had Campag on my steel Bianchi since the 90s,came with 8spd Record changed it to 10sp Veloce in 2006 and later changed the cranks and deraileurs to Centaur. Still running this. I have other bikes with Shimano and one with Sram. Only my Kona hardtail mtb has disc brakes. I will stay with mechanical and rim brakes for road as long as I can since I can fix it myself.
I just built up a 2018 Pinarello with 12 speed Campagnolo Chours/Record. It's my first Campaganolo group set and I must say that the fit and finish is amazing.
Future is electronic sounds to me like in the late 70's the future of watches is quartz over mechanical. Also I get the compatibility issue they had up to 11 speeds (which was rather compatible), but starting from 12 speeds almost nothing is compatible anyway!
It will die if it doesn’t get to the OEM market. 10, 11 speed mechanical double on lower speed bikes would be entry level. Bring back Veloce and continue Centaur. Make brushed aluminum cranksets again! Neo retro look terrible with black. How about going for the touring, ranondeur market. Revive the triple. Find a new niche!
I have a steel road bike with Campy Potenza 11-speed and rim brakes. I absolutely love it. I also have an aluminum road bike with Shimano 9-speed Ultegra and a carbon road bike with 10-speed DuraAce. All three are wonderful groupsets with cable-actuated shifters and rim brakes. I have a Campy corkscrew, too.
In the UK it is similar, Campagnolo is not sold on many built bikes, if any, due to the lengths the other two manufacturers go to discount their equipment to the bike brands, it's all Shimano and now more recently Sram. You could not buy the frame separate and put the wheels and groupset on for the money they sell the complete bike for so i guess this is where Campy needs to go as the money is in the replacement parts. Not sure they are up for this as it has been this way for decades. Personally I have always ridden Campy and love it and will never change! Their wheels are a class above too!
I love my Ekar groupset so far! I wouldn't say no to an electronic Ekar version, and I think it would solve a lot of the little annoyances with the very precise indexing required for this cassette. However, the tactile feeling and feedback while shifting this thing is an experience in itself! I didn't think that was a thing until I tried it. The brakes are very nice as well, with the only downside being that the pads wear through quite quickly. The 10-44 cassette paired with the 40T chainring was really nice on my bikepacking trip with more than enough gears for both the steep climbs with a loaded bike and for the fast decents.
How do you like spending $45 for a shifter cable now? You said it, the shifting isn't very precise which is why Campy produces a special cable for that group that isn't cheap.
@@charlesmansplaining No, you've got that upside down. The cable is in order to guarantee the precision of the shifting. With 13s there is very little room for error and the balance of tension in the return spring on the RD vs the tension on the cable - you are essentially balancing one spring against another - so the tension on the cable (including any friction in the outer) needs to be carefully managed so that it falls withing tighly-controlled boundaries. The maximum Smoothness inners are designed to deliver that fine control (even in case where there's a full run of outer, front to back). One of the hardest issues to crack with any index system has always been consistency in the cable acting basically as a spring - you'll note that Shimano's change to a smoother, teflon-covered inner cable was coincident with their concealing of shift cables under the tape. The reason was that the tighter bends needed in their revised design needed a lower friction inner cable than they'd previously used. Campagnolo's cable uses a teflon impregnation technique, amongst other things, which prevents cable "fluffing" as can be seen on other "coated" cables, which is more expensive but also makes for cables with approximately twice the service life of the old UltraSmooth inners, as reference to their technical data manual shows. The same cable, BTW, is used in 12s.
You can use Campag wheels with Campag cassett on both Shimano and Sram bikes. Just so you guys know. There even was pro teams that only used Campags Super Records chains for their Shimano and Sram bikes!
except for the MTB, my fleet is all Campy. The shift levers are the _biggest_ reason why. I don't like Shimano or SRAM's take on the brifter, and the Campy ergonomics suit _me_ much better. Most reviews of Campy end up indicated the ergonomics is better there, so I guess I'm not alone on that, but Shimano has such a "grip" at this point it's hard to dislodge. I really like Ekar, and surprised how 1x13 is quite usable on the road too. Most of the market loss is Campagnolo's fault for having ceded it by not innovating when it counted in the 80's into the mid 90's. They caught back up again by 2000, but splat, too freaking late... NOW is where things get interesting because when Shimano (finally) released a Dura Ace 12sp Di2 groupset, it's now MORE expensive than Campagnolo Super Record EPS. So Campy Chorus, Record are now less expensive than the former "everyman performance" 105 group, SR is less expensive than Ultegra, and SR EPS is less expensive than Dura Ace. But now that Shimano is this generation's Campy, the Chinese mfg's like Microshift are probably going to eat their lunch like Shimano did to Campy.
Thanks for watching and for your comment! I doubt microshift and similar brands are getting anywhere close to the bigger 3 for now. Their products are just not of good enough quality to compete at the same level. One day maybe.
@AndreasIhm we were saying that about Shimano into the early 90's and look how fast it flipped. Shimano made massive inroads by being good enough and much much cheaper. Particularly against the big Dino Campagnolo. Now it's Shimano not innovating quickly currently and showing Dino weakness while charging more than current day Campagnolo. Somethings going to give there. Possibly soon, possible not. Hard to say
Dead ? Completely lost on me this topic , seems to have become cool to hit on campag … narrative clearly driven by sram and shimano . The fact is it’s still the best kit and if you want the Best Buy the best , buy campagnolo . It’s lighter , better looking , wears in not wears out like others . Chorus is better than any other groupset on the market never mind record and super record .
I have two bikes with Ekar - a Ritchey Swiss Cross and a Velo Orange Pass Hunter. I think the Ekar components are Record and Super Record-level quality. The gear ranges are the best of any 1x I've tried - great range and close gears at the high end. I put a set of Campy Levante wheels on the Pass Hunter. Nice, and light. I've always preferred Ergo shifters over Shimano STI. However, I just built up a 1x with SRAM eTap AXS and I have to say it's nice. Simple to set up, easy to shift and only one battery on the rear derailleur. Ekar would be nice like this and would have better cassettes. I think the new Super Record EPS system at somewhere around $5,000 US will be out of my price range. And I don't have a frame that would do it justice either.
Freehub body cost 40-50USD, chain costs the same as quality Shimano, cassetts are more expensive, but absolutely perfect. Mechanical groupsets are the same price as any other top brand.
Couple comments. N3W is the same spline pattern as their standard freehub, but it is shorter and allows a 10t cassette. If we're talking about road wheels, you can have either freehub. Or you can use a Shimano cassette and chain, quite frankly. True for 11s and 12s. Not true for SRAM compatibility. Aside from that, yes. The user base was always much smaller, even in the 90s or 2000s. The cassettes and chains are more expensive than Shimano. If we ignore that, they use different shift cable heads, so you can't substitute shift cables. Few mechanics these days are familiar with it. You can read the instructions and the principles behind the derailleurs are identical, but the lack of day to day experience means something. And it's at a price premium, and these days it definitely doesn't perform better than equivalent Shimano or SRAM. As such, it's objectively not possible for me to recommend that a newer rider switch to Campy.
I have 3 kestrel first Gen carbon with Croce de Aune components. I know I spelled it wrong. They are down tube shifting but this is what I grew up on in the 80s and 90s. I was always a Dura Ace fan still am. But the technology intrigued me to build something different.
Bought my first Campagnolo Nouvo Record derailleur in 1971. I've used T.A., Sugino, Stronglight, Suntour, Shimano, Huret and they are all in the dust bin. All my bikes use Record 10 or 11, that is except for my Mercian Super Vigorelli (1973 resprayed in 2021) track/road which uses Campag Pista. I prefer mechanical groups, but then I drive a 6 speed manual VW TDI. My brother owns Grand Performance in St Paul, tells me that I should really try Sram, but then he is in the business, as he winks at my stubbornness. I don't mind being one of two or so, in my riding groups, with Campagnolo. It's like steel, its real.
Hello and very well covered subject. I’m a fan of Campy, for there wheels. I have a set of 2014 Shamal 🥰 on a shimano Groupset for my BMC TeamM. SLR. And I’m doing my n+1 multi-surface bike with EKAR. I’ve been on Shimano since 1990s DX and LX for Mtn bike. For N. America/ 🇨🇦, the key is about accessibility and via Marinoni in MTL area, they also cover the 2nd ley point, TECH support (very competent they are). And lastly, I prefer the Campy manuals and technical to Shimano is good, but Campy is easier to follow. Voilà, bonne continuité 👍🏻
I think that in NA you are correct -- people buy Campag who already know and have used the brand. When I got a new custom steel road bike a couple of years back I had it designed around Record 12 speed mechanical disc brake because this bike was an update/upgrade from a bike I had ridden and loved for years with Campag Record 10-speed. So, I'm the poster kid for this comment. The new bike is lovely and I'm super happy with the new Campag stuff on it. I also have Shimano group set bikes and like them too, but that Campag stuff is just sweet!
For me, living in the us, Shimano is dead. Won't ever buy a bike with it. Campagnolo only. Unless another non Chinese manufacturer decides to open for business
I think one of the reasons is that it is often out of stock! I wanted to buy a set of chorus in February this year and asked the dealer. Until the other two days, they told me that the order can be ordered, but it will take 3 months to arrive. Although I still choose to order, but more people will choose to buy shimano directly, right?
I have the Super Record EPS group and I think it’s very good overall. They do need to work a little on the overall weight of it though. One area that comes to mind is the Super Record 12 speed cassette. The 6 largest sprockets are monolithic, which is definitely a big upgrade (from an engineering perspective) from the Super Record 11 speed cassette that had the 6 largest sprockets pinned together on a carrier. However, those 6 pinned-together sprockets were titanium, so the 11 speed cassette was significantly lighter than their 12 speed cassette. I believe their 12 speed cassette should have the same 6 sprocket monolithic piece, but machined from titanium instead. Also, the 6 smaller individual steel sprockets should be machined from one piece of steel.
The possibility was examined of a Ti monobloc but the gauge of the teeth precluded (in practical terms) making the biggest six from Ti. All the testing showed that the Ti's sheer strength would not be sufficient, using material that could realistically be machined - if cost were absolutely no object, then, like anything, it could be done, of course - from a production engineering point of view, though, steel was seen as the best option. Check the overall weight, comparable transmission to comparable transmission (i.e. parallel crank lengths, cassette sizes and chainring sizes, same BB cup type) and at the time of launch, SR12 was lighter on nominal weight than comparable Di2 systems - although, as component weights are generally a few percent either side of nominal, a "heavy" SR might be heavier than a "light" Dura Ace ...
@@graemefk6519 interesting. So you mentioned that the Ti sprocket shear strength wouldn’t be sufficient. How has Shimano managed to use Ti sprockets in the large cluster for 12 speed Dura-Ace?
@@RB-xv4si Maybe SH made different materials choices, or balance of costs choices. It's like anything in production engineering. There are aseries of choices to be made, some of which are about the raw material cost, some of which are about wear and tear on machinery, some of which might be about what other jobs the machinery might be used for, for instance ... Shimano may have found a way to do something else at lower cost elsewhere that allowed the attrition on the machines involved in machining an alloy of Ti that was resilient enough for the job, bearable in the context of overall production costs. Production engineering is aset of compromises - it's raely about "this is the only way to do it" and it's usually about "these are the parameters we made our decisions within. Because of the amount of highly valued IP that is bound up in those decisions, it's rare to get a completely comprehensive answer unless one works inside the production engineering team - and those guys are usually bound by a series of NDAs (as am I). But ... that's the top & bottom of it.
I realize they have to evolve to keep with the times and competition, but the soul of Campagnolo is a slow death. Note I said the 'soul' and not the company as a whole. Campagnolo used to have embellished components like a bike wearing jewelry. Now its just black do-dat blended into boring digital tech land. Since they still have the tooling, wouldn't mind offerings of the polished or anodized 9 speed sorts in mechanical. Brakes can be hyd disc but give them some old school Italian flair. Also, you'll never get a chance to physically tour the factory as they're very secretive and protective. I suspect some is jobbed out by Asian sources.
Alloy is not where Campagnolo are at any more - to make a crank as light as SR in alloy, is a very tricky job, one which Shimano have achieved but they've not done it without some very obvious problems along the way, now quite publically coming home to roost. Campagnolo chose to concentrate on composites and have developed many unique solutions to problems in composite manufacture ... there's little or no chance they will go back to manufacturing a polished alloy group at the high end. It's simply a non starter for them now. They still have the dies etc., true ... but the factories are generally much cleaner workspaces now than they used to be and forging is not a very "clean" activity. I remember when I fisrt visted Campagnolo in Vicenza in the late 1980s when they were at the peak of alloy group production and it was very much a "satanic mills" experience - now, you could eat your lunch off the floor ... Contrary to what you imply, there is little that Campagnolo bring to market in mechanical terms, that is not made in-house. I am at the factories 5 or 6 times a year and I'm pretty sure all those machines and people are doing *something* ... 😀 There are 3 main factories - HQ in Vicenza, employing over 300 people on the production floor and 2 wholly owned factories in Romania, employing around 400 people between them. There is a small, wholly-owned business in Taiwan, Primatek, which employs less than 50 people. Some highly specialized (and in general, electronic) parts are of course made by specialist manufacturers - Shimano and SRAM do the same, it makes no sense to try to be a motor manufacturer when there are 1000s of specialist motor manufacturers out there, who will make the product that you need, to do the job you need doing. Some generic things are also purchased and one or two other parts of assemblies that are more efficiently made by a third party are, of course, outsourced. This is not unique amongst the groupset manufacturers, to Campagnolo. Occasionally, Campagnolo do organise factory tours - there is even a tour permanently laid out at Vicenza (I am pretty sure the staff don't need the explanation boards that are sited strategically around the production floor) - but yes, commercial sensitivities do make visiting the factory difficult - most manufacturing workplaces don't throw their doors open to just anyone, because a little knowledge plus the sight of some of the machinery can either tell an informed person quite a lot, or lead them to draw some badly misinformed conclusions, depending on their competence. Either way, in these days of mass participation media (like this) most companies have to think about just how much they want to show the world.
I have one friend that is stuck on Campagnolo mechanical. Him and I would only ever use Campagnolo (Chorus) on our bikes. I even had some Record once. But when electronic shifting came out I had to try it. I haven't gone back to Campy since and it's been about 3 years. Now Campy just released their new wireless electronic group and I have to say I still won't consider them. They dropped the thumb levers and made the price an insane amount of money. It's not the quality it used to be and is not rebuildable or repairable like it used to be. It absolutely makes no sense to choose Campy over another brand that is half the price. Campagnolo is dead to me.
