Is Everyone Really Telling The Truth? 

I’m not trying to spread hate btw. I’m just expressing my ideas about this topic. I know people are tired of hearing about it, but I just wanted to break it down for people who didn’t understand why there’s so much hate. Also if you would like to join the discord: discord.com/invite/the-portex-space-station-849750171243249694

I was gonna just leave a meme comment but this is actually a very nuanced take on the whole situation. The fact that the audience of both these games are generally very young really hurts the discussion around them. It feels like the discussion of copying kind of just turned into "TDS vs TDX" with fans on both sides trashing the other for no real reason, and being toxic and arguing about arguments. When the drama was at its peak with the power-up stuff it should've been pretty obvious that TDS didn't copy, because they physically couldn't have. If memory serves correctly they posted their first power-up leak like, a few hours after TDX posted theirs. There is literally no way they could've seen the TDX leak, and made their own power-up system within a few hours. That is just straight up impossible. Not to mention that would just be an incredibly stupid plan LOL as shown by the amount of backlash they got. I genuinely just think that some of the admittedly similar updates came out near to each other through pure, weird coincidence. Anyways the two games are chill now so hopefully the communities can calm down a bit too. Although I admit I'm surprised you didn't mention how both TDS and TDX clearly copied Furry Tower Defense in this video, I guess you must've ran out of script-time?

I will never forget that one guy on reddit saying patient zero was a predator copy because they had a cannon arm...

y'all ever thought that.. the same developers work behind the scene?

People who are saying “tds copied tdx!!!” Havent even watched the video /: [i just finished it]

Unironically, the brawler just gives the feeling of pat fusty. High damage slow attacking on early levels. High damage fast attacking on the later levels with stunning.

I think below and John are in a chat laughing at a chaos when they come up with a update.

Great video! As a td game developer it’s really stressful trying to “think outside the box” with ideas that may result in people from another game trashtalking or harshly criticizing you for “copying”. But that is unfortunately what we the td game community have to deal with because these people think of copy, more than inspiration.

i've always found the discussion "tds is copying tdx" extremely stupid, especially considering the fact that there is evidence proving otherwise. for example, back in 2020, tds dev team hinted at a potential consumable system. i also find it annoying that the majority of people that spark these types of arguements are extremely young children that obviously do not know how hard it is to maintain relevancy on a video game platform like roblox, or maintaining a game in general.

i think another thing is how unoriginal and unique games (not just tb based ones) are often the ones who end up dying and rotting at the bottom of the discovery page "if it aint broke dont fix it" works in a sense that you are simply going for efficiency. But when you make a game, you take a unique spin on an already well-made game idea.

*"let's just stop and vibe"* Aside TTD, that game doesn't deserve love for a reason

As a guy who switched from Tower Battles to TDS, Commander isn't the guy who gives firerate to towers. It's DJ giving discounts and firerate buff meanwhile Commander gives range buff. Yes designs might look almost same but they are not same at all. So we can't say TDS completly copied Tower Battle's commander. And endportex, thanks for knowing difference between copying and being inspired.

They both copied toilet tower defense obviously

Yeah, I agree. If any idea isn’t original than what is Original

I hate how both communities fight like they’re the original ones, many other games are more original Ex: Tower Battles and BTD6

Thank you so much for making this video! So many people have been going at tds, now everyone knows that both tds and tdx did not copy each other, they got ideas from btt6, which other games such as tb got ideas from. Now the cycle can stop, no one copies each other, they get idea from each other, and show how much they like the ideas that they make it part of their game.

Really solid video, only thing that id correct is Below and John being friends. There is evidence to suggest that a few weeks ago, they were definitely unhappy with each other about the "copying situation". The two things that suggest this is John slandering TDS and (indirectly) encouraging his fans to hate the game by calling it out for copying TB. Also, a dev said "John and Below have now settled their differences" so at some point recently they were not friends. But yeah this situation is absurd, and so ironic how fans whine when the other one takes inspiration but denies how their game has done the same thing.

I mean In my opinion at some point a game can become the baseline for what's expected. I mean like If your making a TD game you will inevitably copy BTD but at that point BTD has just become the golden standard, the baseline, the groundwork for what a TD game should be.

I love how now most tdx fans just ignore sledger 💀

I agree with so many things in this video, it’s actually heartwarming to see and feel I’m not the only person who thinks this way about TD games. From the copying vs. heavy/light inspiration argument, the impracticality and impossibility of making a whole new feature 2-3 days after another TD game does the same thing, the connection to art, the lack of appreciation from impulsive kids who don’t understand how hard it is to satisfy thousands upon thousands of people, the debating vs. arguing concept, and so many things in between. Having a more respected person express similar thoughts as mine on a more noticeable canvas than just RU-vid comments is so refreshing. I’m no old tower defense player, but I love it so much. It’s my favorite kind of game on any platform. But to see the most prominent figures of the RTD genre in a community vs. community state like this is just disappointed. Almost depressing. The worst part about it is how petty the cause is and how it’s between people who play/have played both games. I truly hope for more attention on this subject in a manner like this. In the end, we all just want an escape from reality, time to spend with loved ones and friends, something to keep us occupied, or something to let us experience a stressless sense of progression. Arguing and creating petty conflicts is drawing away from those things; we’re supposed to be spending our time in this “safe haven” wisely and using it for those things, not arguing on RU-vid and in Reddit threads about who’s favorite game “copied” who. We should be playing these games to avoid the same conflicts in the real world. *”Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent." - Carl Sandburg.*

1:39: "TDX copied TDS" "go drink liquid nitrogen"

Fun fact:i first play tds in 2020 frost invasion,and so 2021 eclipse event,from there i start playing more the game,until the people who says "TDS is trash","TDS copy TDX",and more,that makes me so angry of how people are influensed by strangers or toxic people,but people like you,corso,elite,and like that are very calm of this. I just want people from TD games to don't fight each other😔

heyyyyy I'm a long time TDS player and consumables have been leaked in like 2019 - 2020 way before TDX came into existence but this video is very interesting and I never noticed the war between communities

Best video on all of this drama. Taking as little bias as possible while also making sure you aren't blaming one or the other. Couldn't agree more! :D

My ass enjoying tower defense games while i see TDS vs TDX war everywhere

As a fan of both games, I agree, although it’s a pain grinding both games

Oh my GOD I have been waiting for something like this! you explained it perfectly in ONE sentence being “nobody owns idea’s”

Wow, really good video oncthe subject, we all heard smth like "copy !" Or "unoriginal !". As an og tds player (i have swarmer) i grew up with that game, and now seeing arguments of new td games that i enjoy (TDX or back then TBZ) about copying makes me loose my mind, i hope one day the community will be on a same ground and accept idea variants and other insignificant things

Im gonna settle this, they didn’t copy eachother, its almost impossible for td games to make original stuff, so to sum it up, they just remix each other’s ideas

1:39 the bacon on the left makes a good point

Great job for opening people’s eyes 😊 (and mine in some way with me accusing each one is copying each other like sledge copying sledger)

Regarding consumables, I also feel like TDS already had a basis for what it wanted to do regarding those, and I do believe they discuss updates with each other, hence why TDS took a different take on consumables than it originally was, a more TDX approach, which I think is good, because both games can provide ideas to another, which means they can implement better ideas more common!

1:39 That’s crazy 💀

If we are talking about games that was inspired by other games, I'd say doomspire defense was inspired by tds and tdx, doomspire defense has an advisor like tdx and the spawn tower in doomspire defense is like the elf camp tower in tds as both towers can spawn a boss, the spawn in doomspire defense spawns in the sword master boss at max level while the elf camp in tds spawns in the ripped elf boss at max level, doomspire defense was inspired by tds and tdx

You are right, it's like the same thing in each game but with different features. And it is not easy to come up with totally original concepts either.

This video helped me understand the issue with tds and tdx, and indeed we should be grateful for such an amazing game the devs of tds and tdx have given us! So the lesson learnt is be grateful, be patient, give your ideas and don't start fights👍

If games weren't allowed to take ideas from other games, then the amount of games we would have would be VERY, VERY low.

video games are an artform themselfs. they are a mashup of a ton of different artstyles such as music, architecture, gameplay design, ect. it takes a ton of skill to make a video game due to the amount of other skills you need. its hard, yet so worth it if you can pull it off. it could be an engaging, fun masterpeice that moves and inspires you, and stays with you for the rest of time. or that videogame is escape running head like no seriously did that game even exist or was i on acid.

Im also thinking longer update development times is somehow better but mainly because of how live service is used today, because I don’t have to come back constantly for a limited time event or battlepass as both games are making more permanent content addons to say the least

Love how these two games are going at each others neck while tower blitz and other tower defense game is just chilling

As someone who has played tons of different tower defense games, you start to see so many similar ideas with little differences thrown into it. Hell i've seen lots of obscure tower defense games that had unique tower mechanics that got added to the bigger ones months to years after the smaller one had it. Nobody talks about these though because nobody cares about the smaller games as they don't play it. The real problem is the formula the td genre follows. While some may put a spin on it with a unique mechanic (Good examples being Pixel gun TD, World TD, and Another Tower Defense Game just to name a few) most just follow the normal place and upgrade tower to stop enemies following a set path. If more TD devs jus tried to spice up the generic game formula they could make something that really stands out. That's just my opinion as a TD nerd

(sips coffee) to me, its cool to see tds and tdx have similiar updates, its not stealing to me, its nice cause i like to see an idea of a nuke or an airstrike in two type of styles, tds is more cartoony, and tdx is more realistic, and i like both games, however, tds could make stuff less laggy 😭

i agree with this,but there are still a LOT of ideas for a game they haven't taken account for. Like tower perks, most td games don't have those and either or both can make them, the system isn't very complicated to work out, because there are still a few games with perks like critical td.

1:53 This is a rework, but the armored factory in TDX was planned a month ago. I’m generally silent about the concept, the concept came out a year ago.

It’s crazy how TDS: Modded slipped though the cracks with this drama

woah guys i will act like otherfs do 0 views in 1 minute wow he fell off wow wow its so over these types of comments sucks and i just cringed myself

I personally found it very odd that TDS was updated like 3 days after TDX was updated but I never called TDS copying since it’s ok to be inspired to make a balancing change to a tower or make a new tower in general. Personally a little inspiration is what gets everyone motivated to add a little change with their own twist just like how you said it about Art and RU-vid

If devs release an update without testing all would be disaster because too much bug to fixed

I feel like it’s mostly the TDX side instigating the fighting. They don’t even mention updates like brawler because it would invalidate their point of tds copying everything from TDX

Oh hey that's my post at 0:27

As a fellow player of TDS and having played almost 3 - 4 months and being rank 92 i understand that both games are indeed inspired by each other as the TDX creator actually used to be in TDS trailers and in the beginning a youtuber doing content about TDS, so we can guess the TDS devs are really close to TDX devs because of the past and if it was copied the Devs can claim that the other game copied them and cause a lot of out spark but they never did, and i am not being bias either since I played both games and I found TDX and TDS are very fun and also since these games are made for entertainment and to have fun , it doesn't matter because people have different playstyles and Devs try to make their game for everyone to enjoy , so arguing and claiming that TD games copy each other is ruining others experiences of players who find no fault but TBH both games are awesome and deserve popularity with no backlash and we also have to remember that we falsely claim TD games copy each other not realizing these Devs are spending hours and days making updates that their players would enjoy and the fact we hold backlash against the Devs of the TD games are very disgusting. Especially since we play the game for enjoyment not to judge the games and the similarities

6:39 There's a pretty small TD game called Critical Tower Defense, one of the towers, Tempest, functions very similarly to Brawler (it slows enemies, does more damage on the last hit of a melee burst attack, and is bought from doing special quests / gamemodes)

errm is brawler that one thing from that one game from that one thing

Those communities are cry babies, both communities, bias crap, both games are fantastic I am a tds fan, but tds and tdx are great games, comparing them and saying the other is shit

I honestly like both games, they are unique in some way. I dont mind the "copying" vise versa because they are all free good games with high quality updates and great game design

this video is really help full for those who said "tds copied tdx" "tds copied TB" and in the end they have their own version of their game

Lets all make up and kiss eachother I think itll make things better 😍😍😍

Drink liquid nitrogen is crazy💀 love you daddy portex❤ Send a therapist to me pls

There’s a game with brawler but most people don’t know about it but ngl you are right about everything cause it really don’t matter if someone copy’s another game there not the exact same each game adds there own twist and people who complain about are honestly just annoying to deal with

You thought i wouldnt notice you using "Kurzgesagt - The egg" at the end there. Jokes on you i listen to that almost daily.

brawler is in wtd (world tower defense) but I doubt that they even played the game wtd long enough to get the tower. So the tds brawler probably wasnt even based on the wtd one.

I wish tdx and tds copied toilet tower defense

I’m so glad that you made this video, It’s spreading light on this predicament! I hope people take this video seriously.

In the worst case of somebody did copy another, at the end of the day who cares both have different gameplay styles and are very different games. it’s like saying skyrim is assassins creeds because “oh well they both story action games that takes place before modern day.” If anything I like they are taking inspiration like this as it leads to light competition and drives devs to make better content.

Based ass video

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This is why I don’t really interact with both communities, they are just toxic wastelands in general at some points.

It really did just boil down to “the updates and leaks were just at the same time, comedically” In terms of Tdx and Tds. It’s fair to have suspicions about it, since literally John had his, but it probably was just timing as again, TDS would’ve had the idea figured in a similar development time as Tdx, not right after they announced it.

Tds didnt copied tdx

TDS did copy TDX, there I said it and that's why TDX is dead!

Why did this get so philosophical for no reason (its super cool but doesn’t happen often…)

I get what you're saying but i still have this feeling of me to protect tdx when i'm good at tds too, i just don't know why.

The developers might just be together thinking off ideas and then when they think of one they publish them. Maybe it just take longer for one of them to release the update.😮

It genially makes me sad to see everyone pointlessly bicker over these kinds of updates, the Devs really are trying their best to keep their game afloat, and inspiration is a large contributing factor. As a book author, I sometimes take inspiration from other books and put my own spin on it, and I know for a fact I'm not the only author to do so. So why its suddenly such an issue when TDS or TDX do the same with each other, beats me. My point is that those who pointlessly argue over these updates, needs to realize that inspiration is in everything in the modern world. And even if one copies the other to some degree, I don't see the issue. Since John and Below are good friends, they should be allowed to bounce ideas between each other, and add their own personal ideas as well. My friend will sometimes give me suggestions for my books, and I'll either use them or add them with my own creative spin. Either way, everyone just needs to calm down and let the Devs cook.

Now way whe are coming back to those times when everyone was yapping about TDS always copied TB 💀

I said something in a comment section about how they both came out with consumables and how tds got intermediate mode. The intermediate mode could be a copy but the consumables were too close for both games to have copied

Damn I can’t believe two games in the same genre on the same platform utilizing the same concept of zombies invade are similar 😐

When my friends introduced TBS to me i got so much nostalgia from it because it was very similar to TB. I noticed the similarities and differences but i was saying that tds was inspired by TB because of these similarities and differences but they said i was saying it was a copy. They then said that TDS came before TB. I proved them wrong very fast.

not only he solved most td game arguments, he solved my anxiety of someone calling my work "stolen" too 😅

Brawler is from a cool tower defense game based off of OG Roblox called Doomspire Defense. It's the starter tower but they look nothing alike and do kinda the same thing. W video just thought i'd yap

Is understandable that everyone points out TDS as the ones copying, mostly because of their historial of copying TB since their release. TDS wasn't a planned game, and was a school project 100% based in TB (Or this was the argument back on TDS-TB drama). But on their release the game was almost a copy paste of tower battles with a reskin. Nowadays is a totally different game even if it stills takes inspiration from other games, as you said, 100% originality is impossible to reach.

I agree with majority of these points made but the consumables have no excuse, doesn’t help with john himself being upset about it and arguing with below himself, I still love both games but the way these updates are being handled and pushed out does reasonably warrant some eye brow raising

Thank you for settleling not the debate but the argument because it is not a debate

This whole battle has already started with TB vs TDS drama, all about this even made TDS changed many things on its own to differentiate itself from TB, even Planet seems to be aware of TDS. Every single TD games aren't exact copies to one another... So far as we know, I feel like the TB vs TDS drama has been warming up for some reason...

Why don't we just agree that both of the devs are maybe just sharing their stuff together? I mean, they're friends, right?

i don't understand why people are mad at games with quality. i love playing both games and i'm pretty sure john only decided to make his game bc he was inspired in some way.

Now that i think about it, bloons td 6 released a hero similar to a tds tower (brawler) the main catch of both is that they can relocate.

The only parallel I can think of when it comes to brawler, is bottom tree super monkey in BTD6 cause level 3 bottom tree lets you teleport the tower within a certain distance, and max level lets you teleport it anywhere.

hey, for you is it possible thath in tdx we get a tower similiar to the accelerator? like a tower thath shoot a beam of energy like the medic but at the enemies? it would be soo cool

Honestly no mater how many times we tell each community that nothing is original and everything is based of ideas and inspiration, People will STILL be biased to one game, Due to them being incompetent, Denial over opinions, And mostly kids not learning as such. I remember someone said I was wrong when I said most TDS features aren't Original, He even believed that towers such as Pursuit was original because of the way it works. 😭

honestly I understand them, making games is stupid difficult, and I understand when they make bugs, nobody is perfect, what I don't understand is how the broke rangers max level, and then after fixing it they broke the damage meter on all towers, those 2 things barely have anything in common, how did they break that? theres a couple more examples but that ones the one I understand the least, like I said I understand that people make mistakes, but I don't see how they could break something thats almost completely unrelated to the thing they fixed, they also made no changes to the damage meter, so its not like they were working on it

Really the idea of tower defense wasn’t started by any Roblox games but games like bloons, however, it’s important to note you can’t copyright an idea like tower defense, as long as you change towers and designs then it’s not really a copy, of course if a game is doing very similar things, suspiciously close then that’s copying

I hope more people gets to see this video i actually think this problem goes further than just 2 or more roblox games. Most likely all the social media its affected by this.

Well there is a tower named "tempest" in critical tower defense, which is really similar and also there is a tower named "legacy citizen" in zombie madness tower defense, which they are pretty similar imo

Finally, the tables have been turned. Both games are taking inspiration / working together . I should start playing TDX now... wanna see how good it is.

The quote in the end gave me chills

In johns live stream he didn’t say the first time win on map u get more gold, because he said this: there’s a certain game to copy that (or something like that) and he was YAPPING of tds, but yeah I guess it’s inspired

John and Below are an example of healthy rivalry

Back in 2018-2020 I was really not happy with how Tds took way too much from Tower Battles (that is a massive understatement lol), and while I do agree in that TDS did slightly branch out from its roots over time, I still feel like TDS should at the very least mention/credit Tower Battles for inspiration. That's my say in the matter.

If im being honest if these games were "copying" each other it would all lead to the btd series like all tower defense games kinda build off the btd series (for inspiration of course)