Is First Strike Going Away? | Magic: The Gathering Phyrexia All Will Be One MTG Design 

I cracked a huge smile at this

"Don't forget about me." -Banding

The fact that the Protection Nation _also_ suddenly disappeared makes this joke even better.

Nice :)

@@Ritokure No, make it "Phased out" instead for the extra reference

That seems the way to do it, ye. Similar to specific protection.

Or first strike while attacking. Edit: saw the arguments in the video.

This seems like best option. It is elegant, easy to understand, and best of all short.

I would call it "Crap Strike" ;)

@@grimtrix "worst strike" maybe?

totally agree with you

This completely! Green and Blue get to have big creatures, black gets deathtouchers, red and white get first strike!

I love how you put this, hell yeah

The implication to make first strike only work on your turn also means it becomes defensively worse, pushing especially white and red, which are already aggressive colors to be even more aggressive and less capable to defend. It makes the problem worse and the options for the player go down, as you really only can attack profitable, as defending is horrendously bad deal for you (it already is, as you rather want to win by attacking, the game doesnt really favor you being defensive to begin with).

they could call it charge and call it a day lol

this

ALso then you could have First Strike while equipped; first strike on Opponent turn;

I think this is the most elegant solution, at least in English (and probably a couple of other languages). I wouldn't like a new keyword that is just another keyword but modified in some way (shroud and hexproof are the only example I can think of; even if it is justified, hexproof is just "shroud from your opponent"). New keywords should be reserved for new mechanics or unique but unnamed mechanics.

Hmm, The "Legendary" tag in your example gave me an idea, what if they short-handed "[Cardname] has [Keyword] on your turn into a Super-Keyword of sorts? Like "Attackers First Strike" or "Defenders Hexproof" (For "[Cardname] has [Keyword] on your opponents turn.)

@@jernmon It's "shroud from opponents", technically. Which is even shorter. Edit: However, it's not practical to use. We've seen effects like 'hexproof from black'. Turning this into 'shroud from opponents from black' is unnecessarily confusing.

I agree! How are white weenies and red aggro bois supposed to keep up?!

@@jordantaylor4390 We clearly need more 1 CMC white creatures with double strike especially in the common slot to deal with the loss of real first strike

Swift Assault?

Well toxic technically predates infect since toxic is literally just the poisonous keyword. Except it adds the counter without putting the ability on the stack.

Also, fwiw, toxic is a worse mechanic, but it's not strictly worse, since it still deals the damage to life totals as well as the poison counter. It's obviously worse than infect, because of the lack of -1/-1 counters, but it's not "strictly" worse in the sense that most people use that phrase for tcgs

agree with this 100%

Technically, toxic isn't inherently worse, depending on how it is worded. Let's say you have a 2/2 creature, that you've given Toxic 2, Trample and Double Strike to. You attack in, and your opponent chumps a 1/1. They take 4 poison counters. Now, same creature, 2/2, Trample, Double Strike but Infect instead of toxic, with that same 1/1 chump, they now only take 3 counters.

Compleated Thalia with "this creature can't block"

​@@_Ve_98 I think it's Shadow

rip to half of the pauper meta

That reminds me of a time where someone swung a lethal board state at me in a commander game. I had a first strike blocker and stated, "after blocking and killing your creature with first strike damage, I will cast Holy Day." This allowed me to strategically eliminate a key creature from their board, while also preventing myself from losing the game. I won that game on the following turn because of that.

@@SackofDooDoo big brain plays and capitalizing from mistakes can turn the entire game around

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. My thought was "Attackers" and "Defenders" [Keyword].

I like the idea of "offensive" and "defensive" being normalized keywords meaning "on your turn" and "on an opponent's turn" respectively. There's a lot of interesting stuff one could do with those from simple power and toughness changes to adding and removing keywords.

@@t.estable3856 The issue here is that there is already a Defender keyword. "Offensive X" and "Defensive X" would circumvent this problem. You'd just have to make clear somewhere that "Offensive First Strike" isn't it's own Keyword, but that "Offensive" grants the keyword behind it on its turn. Otherwise you'd get into headaches like "Reach can block flying, but I have *offensive* flying, that's different!"

I'd throw my vote (if I had one) behind "Offensive/Defensive X". They already have the Initiative by the way from Baldur's Gate.

@Blackbot Yeah, I can see how "Defenders First Strike" might be easily confused for "Defender, First Strike" I think it'd still work Mechanically, given that they are different words, but from an Accesibility standpoint, "Defensive" would make more sense.

First strike lets white and red’s small creatures keep up with blue and green’s big creatures and green and black’s deathtouch creatures!

Well but this effect also hold first strike creatures back in design. The fact that they are so powerful on defense and with this lead to generally unfun boardstalls, means that they have to be balanced around this interaction - if they only have first strike on offense but not for defense, it allows the stats and costs to be more pushed with lower risk.

At the same time, first strike is an ability that makes a creature Better in combat. Deathtouchers are really good at defence too! A 1/1 deathtouch can hold back a 10/10 attacker! Although thinking about it, the deathtoucher dies, but they still lead to board stalls. I always thought triumphant adventurer had the "on your turn" clause because they saw fit to ALSO give him deathtouch

This video coming out a week after they released First Strike + Deathtouch ( + destroy enchantment / draw card / kill plainswalker) Glissa is pretty ironic.

​@@majordude83 gavin talked about it in the video

Yeah in French it's "Initiative"

Yeah same thing in French, there's a good chance it's the same thing in Spanish and Italian but I have to check before speaking nonsense, and I find it pretty telling like a "I'm choosing the odds and ends in this fight", very D&D flavor if you ask me. Cheers!

That's really cool. I've always disliked First Strike being 2 words

@@XannMagus How does the french version handle "gain the initiative"? Genuinely curious

@@antivalidisme5669 in Spanish it just Hits First.

Great comment. If I had to choose between the two, I would take board stalls over passing ships 100% of the time. I get that Wizards is pushing for shorter games, but I prefer games to be decided by skill rather than luck.

yeah board stalls aren't an issue, peak magic is turn 20 boardstalls trying to think if you have lethal or not

They call it quick attack in Runeterra. MtG could call it quick strike

quick attack sounds like a pokemon moves no magic

​@@L8RSTORM it's what Legends of Runeterra calls this exact mechanic

Quick Attack = First Strike and Haste on your turn

Originally first strike was to invoke the idea of a soldier with a lance , pike or spear. EG: the card Lance. It’s sill to restrict it to offensive only use.

@@PostprandialTorpor Ironically, lances have almost no defensive use (unlike pikes).

Extremely Slow Zombie says "aieeeeeee"

It's more interesting than deathtouch IMHO.

It's weird they want to take tempo control away from white when blue *exists* and that's kind of white's thing.

@Z Kane blue is the original tempo color.

The issue really came to light in Oath where Zadas commando really slowed things down and held off a ton by there just being two on the board and the additional cohort ability. It wasn't a good limited environment to start with but then they made that deck have a long game as well. Other white cards also had issues in inherently formats where they took aggro and basically gave it a long game so those decks dominated limited formats.

@@showingthelinks8441 not trying to dismiss you, because I appreciate your response, but why would we care about limited to such a degree that we would forever alter all other formats? Sacrifice relevant formats for limited, a format that's typically only affordable while the specific set is active in standard. I don't mind "draft chaff" either, as a surprising number of those cards are actually decent with certain strategies. Giving white card draw and taking away control seems like a neutering of that color, where in the past WOTC neutered a color by offering its specialties to other colors. Just saying I disagree with this move, and have since Q4 last year when Gavin told us they weren't going to print first strike anymore... right before they printed new first strike in Crimson Vow. It feels like there are at least two factions within wizards, the people in charge of the youtube channel are trying to push the folks who make the cards (I understand these two groups overlap, but maybe (? You tell me) not 100%) into doing something they don't want to do based on public perception, but then a majority of the public seem to disagree with the move. Someone gets the banks on the phone XD

They can block, if they can maneuver into the extra cost. a 2/1 First Striker dies to two creatures that add up to 3+ toughness total. Which is different from Menace, as the math and results change.

They complained about threat of activation on this turn already

Least game design aware person

It took 30 years, but WotC finally admitted Wall of Spears is too powerful. To be fair, I once beat a board wipe in limited with a top-decked Voldaren Stinger (First Strike when attacking, pumps +2/+0 for 2R) attacking and forcing chump blocks from a bunch of big fat creatures my opponent had held in their hand to play after they they wrathed. For like 5 turns in a row, they dropped a fatty, and I just attacked into it with my Stinger and pumped (they had to block at 6 life). Eventually I drew a Lunar Frenzy and won. So, "first strike on your turn" can still be pretty powerful. Still if you're playing white and red (the only colors that get First Strike at common) in limited and you're doing a lot of blocking, you're probably losing anyway.

If we introduce timing keywords, it could help in a lot of places. How about 'aggressive' or 'proactive' for 'As long as it's your turn' and 'defensive' or 'reactive' for 'as long as it's not your turn' (potentially also the '-ly' adverb style, for more elegant English)

@@retnuhytnuob4068 I do really like 'Proactive/Reactive' for this. it's very self-explanatory

Love this

Hahahaha YES I was waiting for it

Back, when vigilance wasn't a keyword, a friend and I had many stalled matches due to my Royal Assassins. Fun times.

is this sarcasm?

@@FartRainbows nope lol

@@powerworddab huh, thanks for answering!

@@FartRainbows Nope. It was fun when both us waited for the card, which could break the stalemate and win us the game.

MaRo recently said they are moving away from Upkeep triggers... maybe he would get rid of upkeep phase

Coming to MtG from Runeterra, it feels *so* obvious that first strike is an old old mechanic, from the fact it's on block, to the fact that it opens up an entire separate damage step rather than just being before the blocker. It definitely feels like something that has been dramatically overdue for an overhaul, on the level of regeneration but not as nightmarish for rules. The fact that not only is an evergreen but an original alpha keyword capable of doing something like opening up new game phases screams "this came out during the game's infancy before we established what things should and shouldn't be possible". Especially since we already have on attack only effects. In a game where first strike is intrinsically only on your attack like LoR, you can freely put first strike on almost anything and it's tolerable. Granted, it's also a game where all things intrinsically have haste and vigilance. Of course, runeterra might not be an amazing point of comparison, given that the equivalent of provoke is evergreen there.

@@tinfoilslacks3750 Have you ever played Eternal? That game is much more similar to Magic than Runeterra is, and its first strike analogue (called Quickdraw) is also Attack only. It's strong, to be sure, but doesn't cause as many board stalls as in Magic, and almost exclusively shows up in the local equivalents of red and black.

@@GGCrono i haven't played Eternal sadly. I really really like Runeterra it's probably my favourite TCG even moreso than MtG, but I still play MtG as well mostly because it has the biggest scene and highest level of mechanical complexity. I should definitely try Eternal, but the shared round initiative pass system really clicked with me in LoR and it's super hard to go back to conventional turns after playing it. For all of its faults, its got some of the best QoL stuff that truly feels like it's directly iterating on MtG. I think it's absolute best development on top of MtG is the creation of the Strike action, which cleans up so much of the damage step.

Unrelated but it would be super cool if there was an ability sort of halfway between evasion and Trample where your creature could still be blocked; but, all damage it deals it applied to its target, whereas the defender deals it to your creature. Something like a reckless berserk charge flavor. Could absolutely break everything though so disregard

Charge sounds great! Simple, creates a fitting image, feels right.

Glissa has really good abilities. That incentivise attacking.