@@WarsunGamesRegardless of whether your first statement is true or false. The second statement is completely illogical amd irrelevant. There are many ways that gay people can have kids;such as surrogacy and adoption. And in the case of Raiden shogun, her "son" is an artificial construct, and there's no evidence to suggest that a puppets' creation involved normal sexual reproduction. At most it may have involved the use of Raiden's genetic material. Also, by that logic, the shogun is both her and her daughter.
I’ve always thought that Genshin was extremely critical of religion, how flawed the archons and other “gods” in the game are, unlike portrayals of gods in modern religion being perfect and without flaws. Their gnosis doesn’t really grant them powers either. It just connects them to celestia. And the portrayal of celestia as the most divine being, and the hints of how f*cked up celestia seems to be is all extremely interesting.
It's not that they're critical of religion. The Genshin religion is essentially based on a combination of Chinese belief systems and ancient mythology. Like, do you know how Zeus became the King of God? Have you heard about Lei Gong, the God of Thunder in Chinese folk religion and Taoism, who is tasked by the Jade Emperor to punish humans guilty of secret crimes and evil spirits who harm human beings, and his story of mistakenly killing an innocent woman? There's also Buddhism, with a lot of demons turned gods. There's Dakini-ten, who is a demon-turned goddess of bountiful harvest in Japanese Buddhism. There's also Guizimo (shén) or Kishimojin, who is a female demon of misery and unhappiness towards children and parents but later becomes a protector god of children and mother in both Chinese and Japanese Buddhism.
The gnosis is complicated. As a relic of the Third Descender, it does have powers of its own. And it looks like it connects Archons to the Throne of their element in Celestia. But a lot of godlike things Archons do, they do without the Gnosis. It seems Venti is the only one who really depended on his Gnosis. While that fight between Raiden Ei and Orobashi was done without the Gnosis. Ei is just that good at martial arts. And she probably was really angry about Orobashi eating one of her friends.
Dont forget the Implication Khearian likely caused a Disaster so bad 500 year ago they were effectively erased from Existence. Thing was. kheanriah was Ignored by the Archons and Celestia so they were effectuvely free from them...
YK HOW YOU SAID "either 7 or 12" 7 is the number of archons, but isn't the number of fatui harbingers 12???? They're not portrayed as gods in the story, but some of them have LITERALLY tried to turn into a god.
So, one of the big things about gnosticism is that things emanate thoroughout creation In similar ways. Its how even yaldabaoth's creations have some spark of divinity in them. So it makes sense to have the fatui as a sort of inverse archon hood. Of course, they could've deliberately done that. As above, so below.
Numbers are like one of the few things that’s so important, no. 3, 4, 7, 11, 12 are very important My fav is that no. 4 since it’s a bad luck number in china, but the traveler is the 4th descender, in the 4th samsara cycle in teyvat, so its possible the traveler is going to be the reason the 4th cycle is going to be no more and will be the final outsider to be considered a “descender”
@@catdownthestreet thank you for understanding the pain of someone who write fanfiction and posts it on a site where the stuff is either brilliant and could pass as a decently made novel or is so bad that it cannot even be generated by AI (if you didn’t figure it out I’m an AO3 author, I have a one shot that heavily implies that a character is corrupt and like a cult leader. I also have a very early in progress where the title directly references the name of a Bible verse that was meant be the actual name instead of the main character of the fanfiction’s name. I had the thought “I get I’m Christian but I’m not that Christian… would I get cancelled for this?” so now I’m bordering on keeping the title as is or making it directly quote that verse. Like “If you’re wondering where the name look at a Christian Bible and look for the verse John 3:33!” which makes me laugh too much! SORRY FOR GETTING OFF TOPIC PRETENT LIKE THIS SECTION ISN’T HERE AND IT’LL SOUND KINDA COHERENT!) which is amusing to say the least! But thank you for understanding!
I agree with a lot of your points, but I want to say that while Genshin takes so many inspirations from diverse set of cultures and ancient religions, most of them from the West (i.e. Gnosticism), Genshin is still made by the Chinese and East Asians have a different perspective and understanding on Gods and religion. Sure, the game has borrowed cultures, folklores, and ancient religious stories for naming their characters and creating plot lines, but as you have said, the God figures are not all-knowing and all-powerful. That's because the idea of a God being all-knowing and all-powerful figure that imposes rules and promises to save the people if they are following the said God is a very Western perspective on divinity and religion. In the major Asian religions, their Gods do not lead people, instead the people see their Gods as an example that they may follow. That is why in Asia, spirituality revolves around self-reflection and the goal of reaching enlightenment. It is very intrapersonal compared to the interpersonal values of Western religions. We see this theme a lot of plot lines in Genshin, especially from the Archons who would either question what they stand for (venti, zhongli, ei) or encounter a challenge against what they stand for (nahida and furina), and that involves a lot of reflection upon one's values and beliefs. I hope I am coherent in this comment. It is 5am and I tried hard to remember all the points I learned from my World Religions and Mythology & Folklore courses.
Oh that's such a cool and interesting take. I feel like there's more to it but your 5am rambling is so fascinating and I love that you also study mythology and folklore! I'm gonna ponder this a bit for my own theorycrafting purposes
Yeah, I agree with you. If you just look at the many deities in Chinese worship, you'll realize how flawed they are, like Lei Gong, the Chinese God of Thunder in Chinese folk religion and Taoism, whose duty it is to punish humans guilty of secret crimes and evil spirits who harm human beings. In one story, he punished an innocent woman to death. It was said that the Jade Emperor was furious that he wrongly killed an innocent person again. The Jade Emperor revived the woman he just wrongly killed as the lightning goddess, and as his consort, his punishment is to take care of her properly while she will oversee and help him punish others. That woman, Dianmu, will shine lightning using her special mirror so that Leigong will be able to see where he needs to direct his thunder and won't kill an innocent person again. There's also Buddhism with a lot of demon-turned-gods like Dakini-ten, who is a demon-turned goddess of bountiful harvest in Japanese Buddhism. There's also Guizimo (shén) or Kishimojin, who is often recognized as a female demon of misery and unhappiness towards children and parents but later becomes a protector deity of children and a mother in both Chinese and Japanese Buddhism.
There also seems to be a theme in Liyue(and maybe other nations idk) of tradition and progressiveness. It seems to settle that you should respect tradition while also welcome progressiveness. Keqing is the prime example of this, going from strictly thing they don’t need Gods or Adepti at all to holding respect and admiration towards them. Xingqiu upholds a dying martial art form while he also struggles with being an heir to his family’s long standing business and secretly writes light novels. Chongyun, Yunjin, and Hu Tao are young and talented people who hold up traditions. Zhongli himself has witnessed all of Liyue’s history and talks much about it all while still contently living and welcoming modern day Liyue.
Yeah Genshin is really big on showing the connection between religion and culture. While it questions the authority of religion the game doesn't have any issue with the culture that forms around religions. Jean in Mondstat knows Barabatos is a drunken mess of a bard, but still offers prayers to him anyways. Venti's values are deeply woven into the culture and traditions of Mondstat and that's treated as a positive. Over in Sumeru the first thing they do to make us dislike the grand Sage is that they're suppressing a religious festival. The game really seems to get that for most people religion is a community and cultural touchstone more than it's a belief system.
We can take a look at what Nabu Malikata(the Goddess of Flowers) said to King Deshret. (Text from Wilting Feast of the "Flower of Paradise Lost" artifact). "You seek but to chain the winds. Upon the tombstone of divinity shall humanity become the god of gods." "Such a carefree dream was certain to be unmade. In ruins where lies are sundered, humanity will become the king of kings."
Oop, that's so cool. The Flower of Paradise Lost artifact set is such a huge lore drop. Also considering that we know artifacts are the crystalization of memories found in the Ley Lines, it's quite possible that those are literally the memories of the Goddess of Flowers herself.
Oh? Didn't know that. Could you tell me where you heard that from? I don't mind if it's a fan theory or something mentioned in lore. Also, somewhere in the lore the fan theory that Visions are, well, the vision of Celestia through which they watch humanity, is confirmed. I think it's mentioned in a loading screen line and expanded on in Nahida's voicelines.
actually celestia benefits from the vision holders remember? they're getting something back for each vision holder, that's why they're handing them out. Otherwise they would not be powering up the peoople who could "challenge" them
@@catdownthestreetin the genshin impact manga, when Venessa ascended to Celestia, it's inside is like a panopticon. A panopticon is a prison with a surveillance tower in the middle allowing for the warden to watch everyone in the prison. So it is theorized that visions are granted by Celestia to keep close watch at the people with potential to overthrow Celestia. This is also backed up by the gods like Ei that didnt know why there is no Electro Visions granted during the Sakoku Decree. The visions also act as a limiter. You don't need to pursue higher forms of knowledge/existence cause you will rely on your vision. It is also confirmed through adeptis that it's possible to gain powers without the aid of the gods (ex: Xianyun, Xiao, Shenhe, etc.) This is why even though Yakshas and Adeptis are powerful, they are still granted a vision. They are only granted visions to stop them from exceeding mortality. It is further confirmed that visions, and gnoses are surveillance to celestia. This is why Focalors have to destroy the throne of the Hydro Archon to sever that link so that Neuvillette will gain back his powers and undo the curse of the Fontainians through his sovereignty, so that the people of Fontaine won't die.
As a Christian I love Genshin Impact, I'm even working on a speedpaint/commentary series where i tackle each Archon, their ideal, and how the relate back to God Almighty. Venti's freedom and God's Free will, as well as how Venti is tied to Moses with being a prophet/storyteller. Zhongli's contracts and the covenants and promises God makes. Ei's eternity and how God is not easily understood or known and hiw he has long term plans. Nahida's wisdom and the wisdom and knowledge if God, Nahida is also very self sacrificial and is very loving of her people despite how they cast her away a lot like how God is always there for us. And Furina and Focalor is literally Jesus
Wow that's a really interesting way to see it. I'm Christian too and I loved these references on Furina's archon quest. The other ones I didn't notice but you putting it like this makes sense too
I'm not Christian but I used to be one. I go to a Catholic school so I was always brought up with religious education, and while it doesn't appeal to me much I fascinate alot on the religious themes of genshin but the Sumeru and Fontaine quest specifically, in the beginning lyney mentions people born with "sin" and how they will be washed away. Now havent we heard this story before? Yes, yes we have. The prophecy is similar to that of Noahs Ark when God washed away all the sinful people leaving Noah and his family only. Now the prophecy that Lyney tells us sounds more disastrous than how the npc we talk to shortly after in which the npc sees it as some sort of thing that once its happened. Its happened and he willingly accepts this fate with open arms. His perspective as well is similar to Darwins Theory of evolution and that the people of Fontaine once lived in water and belonged there but they soon started to evolve and have blood vessels and other body functions that require them to live on land instead. Some also see the water rising as just a natural phenomenon and nothing more and that the prophecy isn't much to worry about because it seems easily dismissed and not like a secured type of fate for them. Apologies I just ranted all of that and I just started Fontaine quest so I'm acc pretty hyped wekjfnkjeafhkshdkfjdfhskj😅
@@Paimon_food853Umm. No. The Oceanids did not evolve the Ability to walk on Land. The god Egeria literally gave them the powers and Ability to be able to Live on land and was punished for it as well as her Children. The people who saw the flood as a Natural Phenomenon end up having the terror of their lives when it was Shown they will Dissolve like what happened to Poisson.
@@Paimon_food853"Soon started to evolve" Egeria in the Corner who was Punished for literally giving the Oceanids the power to maintain a Form tgat can walk on land. 😢
5:16 singular is gnosis, plural is gnoses, also gnoses enhance the archons power and connects them with celestia, they do not give the archons their power. edit) it has been confirmed by hoyoverse that all of their games are connected to each other
@@quortazan2914 while yes, most of the archons power comes from the dragons authorities, they also have a baseline power, which is what they used in the archon war before the authorities were awarded to the seven.
@simsalabim00 I rewatched several in search for it, turns out it was several series she made. Pretty much all her videos, even the old ones, are absolutely worth the watch. I'm a huge nerd for mythologies and religions across history and cultures, and her videos are always incredibly detailed and beautifully researched with sources in the description. Even I learned so many new things in topics I considered myself a kinda expert
i don't remember the specific video, but there was one that expanded on how kind deshret aimed to use forbidden knowledge against celestia as it had higher "authority" (also a related tangent on pneuma ousia), and he was inspired by the dragon king. honestly, watch any and all videos that seem interesting, they're all good.
10:50 It was actually confirmed by devs a long time ago! Hoyoverse has this thing called Honkaiverse, which is a multiversum where all of their games sit in. It mainly focuses on Honaki series (Honkai Gakuen 1 and 2, Honkai Impact 3rd and Honkai Star Rail). The thing is, Genshin was supposed to be named Honkai 4, but due to some law stuff I do not understand they could not do it at that time so they've changed it to Genshin Impact. Back in 2020 ish, around the launch of Genshin, one of the devs confirmed that Genshin is also in the Honkaiverse, hence it is connected to all of Honkai series. We can also see Dvalin at some point in Honkai Impact 3rd main plot teehee. Btw funfact - games outside of Honkai franchise are also in the Honkaiverse, although they are not as important. Take Tears of Themis of example - the game's characters are literally characters from a bestseller at Bellobog. Pela literally has them on her phone case.
You genuinely could make a 10 hour video recapping ALL the lore we know thusfar and I would EAT it UP. It's so nice to listen to your voice ;-; I love Archon and Heavenly principles lore
Thanks for this one E ! I'd read about Genshin and Gnosticism before but it's such a complex topic and you made it fun and accessible to many people. I honestly love that Genshin's writing is built over this humanist message and this amazing lore.
there is also this theory where the traveller power is derivative of the faith that people have on them, so basically we as player get stronger bc ppl are starting to putting their faith on this guy ik, not an known god just some guy that helps everyone, the traveller represents the will and faith of all people of teyvat and i think thats so cool
@@VictorHugo-od8wx @SolarLight-wc8py Basically, Hydro version of Traveler is the latest one, and also considered the weakest in terms of gameplay. Hydro Traveler throws hitpoints around and needs to gather them like all Fontainians, and they don't have much to show for it. Also, building the Traveler as a healer is quite hard. Maybe it's possible if they cooperate with Neuvillette, as they share those orbs they drop on the ground, so Neuvillette can generate the orbs, and Traveler can use them to heal the party. But the worst part is that no matter what you do, you need to waste valuable combat time trying to gather the orbs.
I just wanted to say that archons don't need theyr gnosis to be considered as archons since we learn from foclor that archons are placed on thrones and when that throne is destroyed than that means that they're won't be any more × archons
Hey! So something i noticed that i think connects to the idea of the age of humanity, each nation seems to have a mock-archon or rather, a human that leads the nation and is similar to the archon Mondstadt; (Anemo): Venti - Anemo Archon Jean - Acting Grand Master (Anemo) Liyue; (Geo): Zhongli - Geo Archon Ningguang - Head of the Liyue Qixing (Geo) Inazuma; (Electro): Ei - Electro Archon Yae Miko (or Kujou Sara not sure) - Head of the Grand Narukami shrine / Head of the Tenryou Commission (Both Electro) Sumeru; (Dendro): Nahida - Dendro Archon Alhaitham - *Acting* Grand Sage (Dendro) Fontaine; (Hydro): Not really sure which is which here between Neuivllette and Furina, depends on how you spin it but you get the idea. There's no way this trend is a coincidence, right?
genshn about to become the next "attack and dethrone god" meme. i'd have to check, but i think Ei's wiping out Orobashi was the sacrifice. which is to say, Orobashi might've made a show of resistance, but like many of the dragons, took on that role to preserve their land.
I’m only a few minutes into the video, but I was reading…I think it was “The Mondstadt Tower” book from the archive, and that definitely goes along with the video topic. It was a lot like the plot of Disney’s version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame and highlighted the corruption in religion and aristocracy. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Okay, so I've been cooking up my own theories lately, and that of course involves a lot of digging through lore. Something I've noticed a lot of people misunderstanding is what exactly happened 500 years ago during the cataclysm. Let me explain... There are a few things related to Khaenri'ah that we know for sure happened around the same time the cataclysm happened. One, the nation was destroyed. Two, Rhinedottir- known as "Gold" at the time- either created or summoned the Abyssal creatures like the Riftwolves. This could've been in response to or the cause of the destruction of Khaenri'ah. Also, it's more likely that she created them, as can be seen in the descriptions of certain items and creatures. Three, the Heavenly Principles stepped in to stop the destruction of the other nations, which may have been the final nail in the coffin for Khaenri'ah as a nation. And finally, four, two different curses were placed on the Khaenri'ahns. The first only affected pure-blooded Khaenri'ahns, giving them immortality but not protection from erosion over the years. There are some possible side effects to this curse- like corruption of the body, for example. The second affected the rest of Khaenri'ah, turning the people into monsters with no semblance of humanity left in them. It was basically an instant-erosion and monsterification bundle. Something we know for sure is that people from Khaenri'ah are unreliable narrators. The gods aren't much better, but my point is, we cannot know for sure whether the curse of immortality was from the gods or the Abyss. Personally, I think Clothar was full of it and it was actually the result of tampering with the Abyss that brought the curse and their destruction upon them. But you're free to draw your own conclusions on the matter. All I'm saying is, from what we know, it is extremely unlikely that the gods placed the curse on Khaenri'ah after destroying the nation. They probably didn't even destroy Khaenri'ah at all until its meddling with the Abyss became a danger to the prosperity of the rest of Teyvat. Also, if you watch one very specific theorist's video on the matter, you might've heard of the idea that Celestia actually tried to save Khaenri'ah through the curse, but it failed due to Abyssal corruption and led to some becoming mindless monsters and others becoming immortal, both eternally tortured by their mistakes and erosion. If Celestia really did place the curse on Khaenri'ahns, that theory would make a lot of sense. After all, do you remember how several of the Archons gained their gnosi? It was because of their love and well-wishes for humanity, not their power. Greater Lord Rukkhadevata and Barbatos are excellent examples of this! After all, one didn't kill any gods at all despite being fully capable of it, and the other slept right through the war. Feel free to correct me on any of this if it's wrong. I just wanted to clarify some things about the cataclysm, as well as provide some possibilities for what could've happened. It still works with your ideas though, E. Even if Celestia was trying to save Khaenri'ah as well as protect the other nations through the destruction of the nation and the curse, they still failed on both ends. Teyvat is still suffering the consequences of the Abyss and Khaenri'ah's mistakes. Not to mention the Celestial Nails... yikes on that one. One thing is certain: there is no such thing as perfectly good or completely evil in Genshin. Everything falls into a grey area... except for Dottore. That man has no excuse 💀
I forgot to mention one thing: I think you're giving Celestia too much credit. The Heavenly Principles seem to be trying to destroy and protect Teyvat at the same time. They chose the Archons based on who would care for humanity the best, but then don't seem to care if the Archons step down and stop doing their duties as gods. They attempt to protect Teyvat from outside forces like Descenders, but then they force Descenders like the Twins to stay on the continent/planet anyway. They stop potential threats to the safety and stability of Teyvat (which includes threats to themselves because they maintain the world and its- cough cough- principles), but then let harmful things like Abyssal creatures and forbidden knowledge run rampant and harm their precious humans. Not to mention the times they destroyed entire ecosystems with their Celestial Nails. The Chasm, the Great Red Sands, and Dragonspine would be completely safe and inhabitable if they hadn't, y'know, dropped incredibly destructive pillars on them and royally screwed up the Ley Lines. Not to mention they unintentionally(?) started the Archon War, even though the point of handing out the gnosi was not to cause war but to find suitable protectors for Teyvat's nations. Just... the Heavenly Principles have no clue what they're doing. That's very apparent. One minute they're trying to save everyone, the next they're actively destroying the harmony they seem so reverent of. I bet if you ask anyone in Teyvat what they think of the Heavenly Principles and Celestia, they'll say something like "The gods are mysterious to us because their will is impossible to understand by mortals." Y'know, kinda like what hyperreligious people say when you ask them why their deity/deities don't do anything to prevent bad things from happening to humans. Another thing that makes Genshin a game that is critical of religion in general. Don't you think?
Also, you're not wrong, the Heavenly Principles are the Demiurge of Teyvat. But remember how you described the Demiurge of Gnosticism? A blundering buffoon. That's exactly what the Principles are. They're incompetent.
Love the presentation of this video! And yeah I agree with most of your takes, especially with Focalors *deceiving* the Heavenly Principles it put the nail in the coffin that the actual uprising has started now. some minor corrections and/or remarks that don't really affect anything you said, but still: 1) Catholicism *is* Christianity, arguably (one of) its oldest form(s). I know you most likely have an American background in which Protestantism or the Evangelical group is considered 'real' Christianity, but... nah, they're really all different sects under the grander umbrella. 2) The Gnos*e*s (that's the plural, not Gnos*i* weirdly enough) are the 'proof' that an Archon is an Archon, but only enhances an Archon's already existing power. 3) Ei's situation was even worse, she also mourned all her dead friends of which roughly half she had to kill or mortally wound *herself* 4) The Heavenly Principles sent down the nails to prevent the Forbidden Knowledge from completely destroying all life on Teyvat. But still, yup, no regard for the people that lived around the planned striking zones so a dick move. 5) Orobashi sacrificed himself *by* putting himself into a position to get executed by Ei because he basically declared war on the Shogunate. He forced his own death, thus a sacrifice. (afterwards though, Ei allowed the people of Watatsumi to still worship Orobashi, real queen shit imo) 6) In one of the Sumeru Desert world quests we do find out that Celestia and the Archons tried to prevent *anyone* from getting destroyed by the Abyssal explosions of power, it's just that Khaenri'ah was already too far gone.
Umm. Given the effects of Forbidden knowledge on People. Those people were already as good as dead. When faced with an Existential treat like forbidden knowledge, taking drastic actions not out of the question. Worst still if the people infected with forbidden knowledge are contaminated and so have to be removed regardless.
in greek 'gnosis' is 'gnosis'... you read the adjective for it (gnostikos) and said that's the noun, its even in the article excerpt you put on screen!
Like what the other reply said, Venti did a title drop in the prologue archon quest, but y'know your first question made me think about how genshin also means something like "original/primordial god" and that the 1st descender is called the Primordial One. Like, whose impact is the title REALLY about - humanity or the usurper or both? Who has the greater impact on the world? that kinda thing
@@gierosajie9357 I say it's the impact of Allogenes. Because we do see their impact, while the Primordial One hides in the annals of forgotten history.
This was very interesting! The fact that the archons (AND PAIMON) are named after demons is something that has been haunting me from the begining, i'm very curious to see where this is going (and also what the hell paimon actually is). Also, since you seem to like history i think it would be very interesting to talk about all the origins and inspirations for the nations sometime. I mean, aside from the obvious ones we all know about all the nations have a lot of other references to different places, cultures and time periods from the real world, like some characters in mondstadt having names of nordic origin, tsurumi island having references to the ainu tribe, the chasm apparently being based on mongolia, fontaine having some references to italy and england, etc etc
Oh that's so cool! I knew the nations were never solely based on one real life culture but I didn't realize there were direct references to smaller tribes and obscure nations within the larger ones. How interesting! Also, would you like to hear some of what I managed to figure out about Paimon? Since you mentioned being excited to learn what Paimon is. I'm sure it's nothing you haven't seen in other theories before, but I do have a lot of information I think you might find fascinating. :)
Oooh sure, i would love to hear it!! I've heard a lot of very different theories about paimon and i haven't made up my mind on what to believe yet haha
@@Shinoot Just so you know I'm working on making a quick overview of Paimon lore, but it's gonna take a bit to finish without making it too long. I'll keep you updated :)
10:45 btw E !! About the Honkaiverse theory, if we use the imaginary tree theory as a basis actually every HoYo's games we already know are a part of the same universe it's not a multiverse , which is a common misconception because of mistranslation... Each games is a "world", from the imaginary tree's pov it's a "leaf", composed of their own planets systems, etc... AND the Astral Espress's purpose is actually to travel between worlds, again from the imaginary tree's pov that means it can travel along a branch to find others leafs...(like the Travellers in Genshin impact !) So I had a theory that the Travellers might have known the Astral Espress but since they were flying at the beginning of the game i could be wrong... But ! Considering everything is in the same universe (and when genshin and star rail respectively released) maybe one day we'll get in Teyvat with the Astral Espress. or... maybe Celestia is stopping anyone to get into their world to protect the one thing that can rule it... the stellaron !! That's right the stellaron, that orange cube and you know where we last saw that in genshin, at the very beginning of the game the Unknown God used it to "seal" one Traveller with red cube. (with btw look like it's Honkai 3rd but iIdon't have any idea what it points to i'm not caught up in Honkai impact 3rd lore...) and maybe the source of the powers of the Travellers is actually the stellaron, hence why Aether's color scheme weirdly match with it... maybe they travel between worlds to get stellarons, but idk why they would, but that thing could explain why they adapt so well to Teyvat (meaning being able to use elemental powers without gnosis) but yeah that's all for my theory 🤠
As a muslim can i just say that Gnosticism is low-key serving. Like, "The true divinity is within us all along." Making self-empowerment so straight-forward kinda slaps✨
i also find it interesting how every archon has praised humanity in some way, saying how they all might have had something that they didn't. nahida praised their curiosity, creativity and emotional connection ei praised their ambitions and them looking forward to the future and their progression as a species zhongli praised how independent they are not needing a god venti with their freedom and expression and egeria and focalors sacrificing everything to save all of humanity and focalors last words saying how much she loved humanity and how special it was, and praising furina for being a human
The way you delve into the deep deep depths of genshin and like so many topics its connected to is so cool if you ever started focusing on like lorecrafting like plotting genshins future lore it would be OVER for any other lore content creator youd get sued by hyv for predicting their entire storyline Like this video was more focused on its own like lore and deep dive is more focused on genshins lore itself rather than like connecting it to other topics( those videos are very cool too tho!!! I related to the trans coding of wanderer so much) and its so cool because you really get into the DEPTHS of genshins lore and connections
Part of the reason I love genshin so much is how much lore they draw from a variety of real world religions. A loooooot of terminology got borrowed from gnosticism, which actually lines up pretty well with Teyvat's pre-creation story of Before Sun and Moon.
not to mention 3/5 gods so far WANT to be human. venti, zhongli and foçalors all think/thought(rip) humanity is fascinating/honorable and wanted to be one of em buggers and just live like a human
"The gods envy us. They envy us because we’re mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we’re doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." ~Achilles from the movie Troy...
@@calladricosplays Someone needs to take their meds. Gives the save vibes as the guy saying Humans are Superior to God because only Humans can Self Terminate.
One thing to note is that the negative side-effects you were attributing to the nails was actually due to Forbidden Knowledge. It actually is bad for Teyvat/the Human Realm and the nails do help neutralize it, so that complicates things a bit. Celestia might be pricks, but they might also be trying to save Teyvat from outside forces, as well. Khaenri'ans might've been in their rights to reject the Gods, but there's also the suggestion that they were also naive, and so they may have done something to justify their demise. Signs point to a series of complicated situations.
Exactly. Despite Kheanria can be seen as Victims. They werent portrayed as Innocent Either. One of the Oldest lore drops about them were the Field Tillers and how Warlike the meaning behind the name was.
This might be a stretch, and this goes against some other theories regarding visions, but maybe, expanding on this theory that the story of genshin is about humans realising that they are more than what the heavenly principles wants them to think, visions are the physical manifestations of this realisation. Visions are something that people with immense passion and determination receive, mostly after achieving a great feat, so maybe visions are the physical manifestation of humans “realising their own power”. All humans are technically capable of receiving a vision, and visions give the wielders control over one of the seven elements, elements that have been a part of Teyvat since the sovereign days. A gift from the creators themselves, to acknowledge that they realised they’re as, if now more, powerful than celestia These might just be some insane ramblings on my part, but I think it’s cool to think about visions like this!
That's such an interesting theory! It makes me wonder if the Heavenly Principles actually want humans to reach enlightenment on their own, but have to step in when their attempts to reach it cause harm to other humans. Take for example the destruction of Khaenri'ah, which was more by their own doing because they were tampering with the natural order through using the power of the Abyss, which led to the creation of certain creatures that nearly destroyed parts of Teyvat and caused the cataclysm. The gods stepped in to stop it, from what we can tell. Also, forbidden knowledge may not be the enlightenment humanity is supposed to reach, hence its destructive nature. Celestia may be bad at its job but they most certainly did not intend for most of the harm that they caused for humanity, else why would they select archons based on their love and goodwill for humanity? (Venti slept through the Archon War and Greater Lord Rukkhadevata didn't participate in it at all, hence why I know this is true over the more common belief that the strongest of all the gods were chosen. If that were the case, some of the current or previous archons would not have been given a gnosis at all.) This does not mean that Celestia hasn't intentionally caused harm- just look at Dragonspine. Did an entire ecosystem need to be destroyed in order to save the rest of humanity? Did Sal Vindagnir even deserve that destruction? Who knows.
Not nearly as unhinged as I expected from the title (then again, I watch Ashikai) but great theory. Given the stuff in the lore, it does make sense and I love the plausibility of it.
a video collecting all the different religious allusions and references found in each regions religion to real world faiths would be awesome!! im a world views student and would personally find that video a joy to watch!
absolutely devoured this one as per usual ✨ a bit of a side note that stuck out to me during the celestia portion of the video was the mention of how they try to limit and control the spread of knowledge due to the power it holds - PERFECT nod to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in christianity, but also got me thinking not just about gnoses, but also visions. there have been theories floating around for a while about visions being bestowed not actually as a blessing meant to harness one's power, like we're led to believe, but actually as a means to control or repress that power in those deemed ambitious enough to seek truth AND powerful enough to potentially uncover it. no idea at this point if those theories will be proven true, but it wouldnt surprise me if celestia viewed powerful citizens as threats to their rule, just as much as they do the archons. another key note: celestia tasking the archons to fight for their place in teyvat and granting divinity to the successful seven is the most PERFECT way to not only control the strong, but also use the strong to wipe out the week, thus leaving every archon that remains and poses a threat to celestia under its watchful eye. for those with supposedly "heavenly" principles, they sure are devious in that regard...... but that's just a theory. a game --
(Commenting while watching the vid) I find it so interesting how SO MANY gods in genshin have demon names, except the 7 + Paimon, all ancient Liyue gods do too , not to forget Decarabia too and I’m probably forgetting some I’ve . Ive been kinda obsessed with this too
This is the best of discussions I have partake in, it's such an interesting take on the story and lore of Genshin that it just seems to connect all very well. I truly want to say how much enlightened I do feel about all of this and that, thank you E for creating such a well-written , immersive and good summary of what has all happened in the story. If all of this does end up tying the knot of what the game is about the 'Truth of this world' then I dare say it's an amazing lesson and story take that a lot of us needed to be reminded off and I would truly love to see it all unravel till the end. My passion of understanding Genshin story has increased and your character explanation through your videos thank you so much.
The funny thing about the Archons being argued to be twelve (in actual Gnosticism) actually can be followed in Genshin as well IF you count the 5 sinners of Khaenri'ah who "attained powers that of a God" since their whole shtick is that they're like walmart Gods, they were trying to be like the "higher beings" of Khaenri'ah, which is supposedly a godless nation. Not only that, if you look inside of the domains, depictions in the murals as well as the floating rings (or, I'd argue crowns) are always depicted as five, could also be referring to Phanes (The Primordial One) and his 4 shades. So if you count Phanes, his shades and the archons, it all adds up to 12. Edit: OR you can see it as the 7 Archons and the 5 sinners of Khaenri'ah as the bumbling buffoons that's not the "real god" with juxtapose to Phanes, his 4 shades and the 7 Sovereigns as the true ones (or that they're also another "fool god" that just came before the current time cause Genshin has a thing for reoccurring events and fate loops and time being a flat fucking circle)
OMG.OMG.OMG /POS E YOURE LITERALLY A GENIUS !!!!! All,of this makes TOO much sense, ur videos are so fucking good they're emaking love this game even more
12:10 Even if there were twelve of them, there was also twelve archons in Genshin. Each nation apart from Mondstadt and Liyue had two archons (so ten in total), and then we add Barbaros and Morax. Coincidence?
Love this video, thank you so much for the perspective on how divinity is portrayed in Genshin! It's very interesting to see how Hyv tackles divinity especially in comparison between their games like the Archons of Genshin vs the Aeons of HSR. Really loved this video
I really love this video because in most theories about genshin always returns the concept of ghosticism. Understanding the stories behind ghosticism helped me understand the game in a way.
E!!! I loved this video very much, and youve opened my eyes even more to the religious context of the game. I hope to see more videos like this if you feel so inclined
I wanna add 3 facts that prove your point about humanity being actually more powerful and a true threat to Celestia 1. It's basically confirmed that Celestia is hella scared of humans to understand the true nature of this world, it's clearly depicted and told in various story entries and especially murales that Celestia and humanity where first in harmony, but as humanity progressed and evolved, becoming less and less dependable from the Gods, they started having doubts and then openly question divine authority and what happened to those civilization? First they were abandoned and then they got obliterated, Celestia throw down they're divine nails erasing countless of life: We have actually seen many of these civilisation ( Dragon spine, tsurumi island, the Sumerian desert, the chasm and probably we'll soon find out another nail in fountain) 2. The power of elemental mastery that people get to use is not of celestial origin but of dragons'. Let's analyse it,we know that the one controlling the elements in teyvat and the one who first ruled the land were DRAGONS, the power of elements is of dragonic origin. We than know thanks to skirk that the Gnosi, that are artifacts that contain high amount of elemental energy and seem to be the source of the archons enormous power itself, was used to channel the dragon authority so that Celestia could use it. That's said we know that humans are capable of obtaining a vision (that are of dragon origins, with the hydro and anemo traveler is highly implied that they are mimicking dragons combat stile and not the archons) when they have a strong desire; vision allow human to do the impossible and humans with vision can actually beat up gods if they want ( see ningguang, Childe or kazuha like girl they are not real???) And apparently Celestia is aware of the human potential, hence 3. Thanks to Renè notes+ Vanessa story we know that getting a vision isn't really that great because you get bounded with the fate of the world = Celestia recognise you and we we have seen what happened to Vanessa when she ascended. She didn't found any paradise but the manga shows us something more like a jail??? So in conclusion, Celestia is aware of humans energy and potential, they fear humanity, hence they both oppressed the one who tried to question and rise up and controlled the other one with the archons (fake gods) making them believe to be weaker than the celestial authority so that they can continue to rule and gather their elemental power for currently unknown reasons
None of the characters you mentioned have beaten any being close to the heavenly principles, and kazuha did not beat anyone, he blocked an attack. Celestia fears forbidden knowledge, which is not the power of humans.
I'm not 100% sure about your explanation of what a Gnosis is and how it works, what you said 5:50 "to activate their [the Archon's] legitimate divinity and connect them to Celestia" - the first part is what the Divine Thrones do, not the Gnoses (that do the second part), and yeah, they're two separate things and I'm still unsure how they work together. I will explain how I understood it because I got confused at the end of Fontaine about this exact same thing so I had to re-read a couple things. At the end of Fontaine Neuvilette gains back his full Dragon Sovereign powers, but he doesn't have them because of the Hydro Gnosis since he gave it away to Arlecchino. He gained back his full powers because Focalors destroyed the Divine Throne and gave back the Authority over the land to Neuvilette. So, the Divine Throne is the symbol or the concept of the Archon position as the Authority of the land. It can be destroyed if Archon's "divinity" is destroyed, as in Focalors, the separated "divine" part of the Archon. The Divine Throne is this thing/concept that Celestia has imposed on every region, and when an Archon is chosen they become one with it, so that's how the Throne got destroyed - because Focalors destroyed her divinity that was fused together with it. Then what are the Gnoses and what are they for? They are parts of the Third Descender and they harvest the elemental powers of the Dragon Sovereigns, and they resonate directly with Celestia. Archons can use the elements without it, so it's not what they're for. Giving up or having your Gnosis taken away does not mean giving up your Divine Throne: Ei, Venti and Nahida are proof of this, they're still Archons of their regions and they still have the Authority over them. Who's the most interesting here is Zhongli, who seems to both have given away his Gnosis AND have left his Throne vacant, because Azhdaha said he can sense that he's "no longer the Geo Archon" and because he can't create Mora anymore (although it's unclear if it's the Gnosis power or the Throne power, so maybe I'm off here). Although Akasha was created with the power of Dendro Gnosis, so creating Mora might be in the same category, but Azhdaha's remark still makes room for speculation on the Throne itself. Can it be left vacant or can it only be given from previous Archon to the next one? Also, it was implied in Scaramouche battle that the Archon War was fought over the possession of the Gnoses, so they might be Symbols of Authority created by Celestia, but they do not hold that Authority by themselves - the Thrones do. So it might have been "win the Gnosis - win the Divine Throne" type of Celestial deal back in the Archon War. So despite being an older game concept, Gnoses are still more mysterious than the Divine Throne that was only introduced recently. Again, this is only my understanding, but what is 100% certain is that The Devine Throne and the Gnosis are two separate things and they're not as connected with each other as you'd assume. Also obligatory EN is my second language so I'm hoping this huge rant is at least coherent.
About Orobaxi: he basically unalived himself by jumping on Ei's sword. He pretended to attack Yashiori to conquer it for Enkanomiyans who were hungry and wanted fertile land, but it was just a good excuse for him to unsubscribe from Teyvat so that Enkanomiyans don't question why he did it and didn't find that book in the pursuit of the truth and didn't curse and doom themselves like he did. So he did it to save them. Orobaxi d13d for our sins, he's my Archon fr, Enka story and location are my favorite in Genshin.
We don't know if Zhongli can't create mora anymore. He sure retired from being a glorified money-printing machine, but he created the first Mora before he won the Archon War, and will probably be able to create Mora even if somebody else takes his place as an Archon. It is entirely possible that he just refuses to create Mora, because he lives as a normal person now, and normal people don't create Mora. Azdaha's opinion is more solid argument, though. Azdaha has no reason to be able to sense a Gnosis, but every reason to be able to sense Throne/Authority. P.S. English is my second language too, and I think your English is pretty good. No complaints from my side.
I’ve always gotten the impression that Genshin is more critical of divinity than it is of religion. One thing I’ve always found interesting is the Church of Barbatos, and -to put it bluntly- it’s irrelevance. In all of Genshin, it’s the closest thing there is to modern-day religion (this might just be because Mondstadt is based on western Europe and Chrisianity just happens to be the most prevalant religion). The fact that they have that and just kinda don’t do anything with in has always made me think that Genshin isn’t too concerned with the social aspect of religious organizations, but instead with the very concept of divinity and how we conceive of it.
That being said, I think there’s definitely something there in regards to the implications of those themes, and how that maps out when applied to religion. The whole idea of challenging the legitimacy of the supreme authority and attempting to seize that divinity is basically what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. Also, these themes do apply to any kind of heirarchy, and just about every religion (certainly the mainstream ones) are inherently hierarchical, so you know there’s that too.
“Some say a few are chosen and the rest are dregs, but I say we humans have our humanity. We will defy this world with a power from beyond” Dainsleif told us everything right from the beginning
Thank you so much for this video. It made me think about a lot of stuff and how some moments might be escalated in the future. Kinda opens the curtains to what this whole story is about. Again thank you so much
You know this was a really good video and makes you think. I don't believe at all that the Sustainer/Celestia are doing things maliciously for one BIG main reason. The Honkai, we know that Teyvat is on the Imaginary Tree not a bubble world in the Sea of Quanta. So it follows, where is the Honkai? Since Honkai and honkai energy are a universal "law" amongst all worlds on said tree. Or Is the reason why Celestia destroyed Khaenri'ah is they were advancing to a point that the Honkai would've started noticing Teyvat. Cause technological advancement is a trigger for the honkai to start manifesting. What if Celestia is somehow shielding or obscuring Teyvat from it? We will just have to wait till later to see how Hoyo is going to end this part of Genshin while also connecting it to the larger Hoyoverse.
I honestly feel like it’s the totally opposite, you can tell there’s minor peaks of representation of religion in every region. For example, Fontaine and Mondstadt could represent Christianity/Catholicism. Furina/Focalor represents Jesus as He sacrificed Himself for our sins and He walks on water. Neurvillette is kinda like God the Father as He forgave our sins because Jesus was the sacrifice, not to mention He’s also know as a justice and merciful Father. Mondstadt has that church, Barbatoes had angel wings, there’s nuns, and so much more. That’s just an example. It’s obvious Genshin was inspired by religion
Spot on with this take. I'm Catholic myself but the religious references were rather obvious when playing and despite being not explicitly based on any given faith, it's pretty obvious to connect two and two together
drawing inspiration from real-world religions for fantasy-counterpart religions doesn't necessarily make Genshin as a work not anti-religion. The game's consistent theme of portraying gods as flawed at best (the Archons) or outright evil at worst (Celestia) very much implies anti-religion and to a lesser extent anti-authoritarian messaging
@@DreamyAileen So you're just going to ignore the entirety of Sumeru and Fontaine. Nice. By the way, the game is primarily based on gnosticism with mostly _minor_ influences on Eastern faiths.
@@DreamyAileen Wow you could be more wrong. Venti flaws in all is shown to be there helping when his nation needed him. Zhongli helped build a strong nation that could stand on its own and now continues to watch over it from the sidelines. Raiden was suffering from immense grief and made some bad choices ok sure, but is now trying to make things better. There is no more benevolent god then Nahida. And Focalor literally gave up her life to save the lives of her entire nation.
I love finally understanding the basics of Gnosticism :P But I can't help but think... the Demiurge is kinda tragic. He didn't ask to be created, he didn't understand what he did wrong (if anything, he was just ugly??) and in the worst case he's just acting out an inferiority syndrome here. Doesn't help that Wanderer is my favourite character and I see a bit (a lot) of overlap, hehe. Maybe in the very end we'll have some sympathy even for the faulty Celestia when we understand everything fully?
Loved the video just a correction on the greek (source= I'm greek). gnosis=γνωσις (ancient Greek)=knowledge (=γνώση or gnosi in modern Greek). Gnostikos=knowledgeable or related to knowledge. Also, plural of gnosis is gnoseis (=γνώσεις, both in ancient and modern Greek), which is pronounced exactly like singular gnosis, so as it's not a Latin word, plural gnosis is still pronounced like gnosis.
This is one thing I think Genshin does brilliantly, the depth is insane. I've played several games in my life, Final Fantasy, Persona, Pokemon, Zelda, and several countless indie games, and I have never been so impressed by lore and it's real-life connections than in Genshin. What a silly little anime gacha game
Another interesting thing to note that the fact that in gnosticism there are 7 archons but some say 12. This is also reflected in Genshin. There are 7 archons, and aside from 2, none of them were the original archons. So that would be 5 extra previous archons. And what's 7+5? 12. Just something interesting I noted
E finally gave matpat an answer, plural of gnosis is gnosi(eye) 🙇♀️💜 Other religions are so interesting, so thanks for being an unofficial teacher 💔 as a Christian(☝️🤓) it’s now my duty to love this video more then I usually would 🙇♀️💜
"[...] but I say we humans have our humanity." Is the Dainsleif quote mayhaps referring to the quality of being human meaning you're more divine than the false god? 😮
That's not what he meant at all, humans were created by Celestia, they have no "higher power", what he meant was that humans have the potential to govern themselves without Gods.
I love thinking about genshin through its religious viewpoint. it does, however, make me curious how they're gonna represent a character like istaroth, who seems to keep breaking the celestia standard 🤔🤔loved the video!!!
E or Enlightenment you should watch Dawit. He's a youtuber who views Celestia as a different limelight. Mostly as a savior and a benevolent being that has problems creating people/archons that can serve them justly. For example Khanriah and King Deshret were on the path of dooming humanity if Celestia and Nahida did not intervene. Apep in Nahida second story quest details how Celestia loves humanity. Celestia warring against the dragons can be seen as a necessary action to create humans. Final thing forbidden knowledge like how the background of celestia/the outside world of causes doom such as elezar and those weird monsters that are seen in Apep boss so Celesia's gatekeeping of it is a necessary evil to protect humanity. Archons are flawed but Celestia does act as a God in a monotheistic faith. Edit: The disappearance of Celestia can be seen as an homage to how people currently are becoming more Secular and how there have been no miracles or breakthroughs in popular Religions for 1400-2000 years. Also Khanreiah had it coming so bad like Rheindotter created dragons that destroyed Fontaine and Mondstadt just by existing and she created the wolfhounds which are worse monsters.
An amazing topic yo pinder about. Ive aleays thought of it as not just Genshin being "anti-religion" but anti-control. As in powerplay. The way hyv comtinues to do things that put the CCP's policies in question (with several HEAVILY queer coded characters, femme-boys etc. which the chinese govt. has tried to crack down on). Their portrayal of gods as flawed also pits into perspective the need for humanity to take control of their own destiny. Even with their divine powers, gods are not the only powers that maintain a watchful eye on their people. For eg, when Morax "died", the Qixing were the ones incharge, however, Ninguang is still stated to be able to watch over all of Liyue Harbor's happenings from the Hade tower. As of right now, Fontaine is the only truly "godless" nation, not counting Neuvilette's presence as the dragon sovereign of Hydro. Liyue's whole arc put emphasis on putting power into the hands of the people and Genshin's biggest plot point stems from the inherent negativity of the Heavenly Principles. That always feels like a reference to the censorship in China. Especially considering that many of the archons actually dont want anything to do with celestia. There's also several small things to note about religion and superstition within the interactions in game, with one being with one of the head doctors in Bimarstan in Sumeru. The other NPCs will greet you and say "Blessings from the Dendro Archon," and always say that medicine is a hift from her but the head doctor always says that begrudgingly and adds ut as an afterthought or to correct himself. Now, ehats really interesting is E's mention of Archons (in gnosticism) being false gods. If so, then Celestia/The Heavenly Principles would be the Demiurge since it is Celestia that gave the Archons their Gnoses after the conclusion of the Archon War. We are Constantly told about the gods of old before the Second Who Came (celestia) and Phanes is mentioned as the creator of humanity on Teyvat and the first invader (true coloniser moment here lol). Phanes was the original God, and their 4 shades were also akin to concepts like the Gods in Gnosticism, for example, Ishtaroth being the Godess of Time. This, combined with the loading screen looking like someone's idea of heaven makes me think that perhaps we could be Christ in this story, inadvertently saving Teyvat from the clutches of celestia. And if we aren't, and are just "witnesses" like Zhongli said, then perhaps we are helping the true Christ. Paimon? This raises more questions as to her true motives for accompanying us. Why do we need to feel for the people of teyvat? Why do we need to help everyone? Who exactly are we? Who is Paimon? The Battlepass's intro video, narrated by Venti presumably tells the story of true Heaven. And the whole "mitosis moment" with sophia and the demiurge could be a nod to the siblings being twins. Perhaps the King of the Kingdom in The Sky, The Supreme God of Heaven has sent us to purge the demiurge. I think the bp story only tells half-truths as is always the case eith Venti.
Its not Anti religion at all. This video is pumped full of the Western Perspective as God being all powerful when this game uses the Eastern religion perpective on their gods. And even than they are more on Self improvement so many of those gods literally have flaws or mistakes they end up overcoming. No different from Genshin Archons.
To add. I know that Sumeru doctor because of Comissions. They called the Medicine the blessing of the Dendro Archon because its so Bitter people have trouble taking it. And that Doctor is tired from being overworked
10:50 just to clarify it's not even a theory atp 😭 it's literally confirmed by one of the head people in hoyoverse that all the honkai/houkai games and genshin are all part of the same universe (or multiverse if you consider the English translation but it's called universe in Chinese)
I'm thinking that the dragon sovereigns are the original gods of Teyvat, which is why the Heavenly Principles was so desperate to take them down. We see Focalors say she wants to "return her power to it's original owner" before she gives it to Neuvilette. I'm thinking the dragon soveriegns may play a big role in the fight against Celestia🤔
While I goes far beyond the scope of this video, its also interesting to compare the genshin/honkai takes on gnosticism to other games. Xenoblade (the first one) is absolutely dripping with gnosticism, including false gods, real gods, and the potential of humans to achieve Godhood.
