Is HEMA unnecessary and STUPID? Reply to Hard2Hurt 

This video was great. I appreciate that you actually addressed the points I made, but my favorite part of these is still your viewers arguing with things I didn't say. That's the best part of these exchanges.

In the firearms community we have a saying. Train with what you carry. If you intend to use a certain gun as your defense firearm, you train with it, take it to the range, classes, everything. If you intend to defend yourself with a sword I think you should do the same thing. Training with your weapon of choice will make you more likely to come out of the fight alive.

A 45 minute discussion about using swords and baseball bats. "What would you use for a weapon?" "An Axe" I gottasay I died from that xD

I trained MMA for several years. In more recent years I have done HEMA and Buhurt style armored combat. My grappling skills I learned from MMA have been useful (although they had to be altered, and some techniques were less useful or not useful) in HEMA and Buhurt. However, learning how to fight against someone who has a weapon with a weapon...is best done by practicing with a weapon...against someone else with a weapon, not by fighting unarmed. Anyone with a sword or other melee weapon can be dangerous, but knowing how to use weapons makes a lot of difference. And it took me a long time to be able to hold my own against skilled fencers/fighters. MMA experience didn't automatically make me vastly better with a sword...although I do still love grappling in HEMA and armored combat.

Seems that everyone overlooked one of the most important points. If you are invading a home with a weapon the chances, are you are somewhat prepared to use it, if you invade a home without a weapon and the homeowner has one, I guarantee you are running away as fast as you can, if you can. To add this too, Shad is right that if you are defending your home with a sword, you are better off with more knowledge in sword fighting because if your invader is intending to fight back that's because he already has a weapon if he doesn't, he will run away most likely, so the chances of fighting an unarmed home invader are quite low in comparison to fighting an armed invader.

Hey Shad, in reference to Dave’s point. There was a time when sportification was sportive combat, so people dreaded the arts becoming tag. That is pretty much gone now, people have started to respect the material culture in reference to the sources (not at entry level but overall it is now more common). Since you brought up I.33, in reference to the topic, I used to instruct on the material. The one thing people used to say is “no leg cuts” simply because the material says cutting low opens up the upper part of the body, namely the head. So people would say you are not doing I.33 if you cut to the legs. But as with most HEMA subjects, 90% of the online experts haven’t read the sources themselves, and this would be a wrong takeaway from the reading. You will find that to be the case with most of the arguments put forth in that vein.

I am actually a fairly experienced karate practitioner, who picked up some sword training recently. What I can tell is that with a sword, I struggle and make many rookie mistakes. I learn way faster than anyone who has no or little experience, that is true. However, against people who are more capable with a weapon, I become most dangerous when I actually get to short distance, possibly even drop my weapon, and just stop trying to treat the fight as a sword fight. Because then suddenly, I hit that switch when I am home, and more often than not, I can in the very least disarm my opponent and that's it. So, fighting with and without a sword is very different, and I wouldn't come into hasty conclusions about what is better/easier/easier to jump from to the other one/whatever. They are just different things. Something to think about.

I think what Shad is saying is that while Mike might be able to win 60 or 70% of the time the difference between 70% and 90% in a life or death situation is enormous.

Didnt think id be this entertained but this discussion was so good i didnt even realise over 50 minutes had passed.

In a home defense situation, I'd argue *anything* beats *nothing.* Whether you have a zweihander or a Mk18, either is better than using your bare hands to defend your life or the lives of your loved ones.

Love Hard2Hurt. Love Shadiversity. Would love to see a future collab between you two. I’m CERTAIN there’s more in common between you two than HEMA.

“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own” -- Bruce Lee

I want to add that I really appreciate Tyranth's crosstalk in this video, debating your points and providing another view! It definitely enriches the experience.

As someone who went into LARP from over a decade of martial arts training, I was absolutely more competent than someone coming in fresh, but I had so many bad habits that got punished and exploited by more experienced sword fighters.

I'm a Rapier fighter in the SCA and something I learned that I feel Mike is missing. No matter how much you *know* about sword combat, that doesn't necessarily mean you are ready to use it in a real fight. They happen so quickly that having real sword training and practice makes a big difference. It feels like he knows a bit about fighting with a sword, but has little to no muscle memory for it.

It makes me smile that mike got a reaction video from a very passionate hema youtuber. It's like free publicity for hema channels. I've watched this channel and 1-2 others before, so I'm happy to see this. You know mike was bating you and other channels to make another martial arts collaboration. Lol. I didn't think of it until part way through this comment.

Having trained in kickboxing and karate most of my life and recently transitioning over to kendo as an adult, I have to say Shad makes some really strong points. If you plan to rely on a weapon as you self defense tool to save your life, you should be training with it regularly. I had an easier time transitioning into kendo from my background in karate, but for the first year or so would still have preferred to rely on my hands when it came down to the wire because I've trained with them for way longer. I was also still making a ton of newbie mistakes despite my martial arts experience, and still am today lol. Now that I only do kendo regularly, I trust myself less in boxing and feel more comfortable with a sword. From a self defense perspective, your plan for an invasion should be something you can rely on when you stop thinking and training kicks in, which is why you should be practicing with your weapon regularly if you plan to protect your life with it.

Why would you decide to buy a sword for self defense but think it useless to train with it? Its like buying a gun, go to a shooting range once and conclude "i'm good" because I am able to throw a baseball. Also in support of Shads argument about fighting the weapon. Look at the guy with the bat. His counter attacks alway go at the buckler.

I practice both HEMA/Kenjutsu and MMA. The only two things that really cross over is footwork and timing. Everything else has to be learned. Including distance (which has to be relearned). I also agree that experimenting by yourself also helps solidify stuff that works.

At that 32:30 mark, I also think Mike’s dropping of the buckler really illustrates Shad’s point. In boxing and other striking martial arts, it’s a noob mistake to have your guard up, and then drop your hands once you start fighting. Mike knows this principle, and yet he still makes the mistake.

There are many attacks against people who wield machetes or knives. You likely won't have an equivalent weapon but you might have luggage, a chair, or even a stick that if you do have sword training you stand a far better chance of winning the encounter than simple hand to hand training.

I liked your mention of Xu Xiaodong, because he is treated so unfairly for showing the folly of rigid dogma within martial arts.

I think the MMA training is actually counter productive to sword fighting. He seemed focused on direct blows and grappling. As you pointed out, he doesn't withdraw his blade at all, but there's also no sweeping slashes to control spacing or use of draw cuts. He basically used his sword like a very short spear.

This is the controversy I didn’t know I needed in my life

I think Mike was being purposely spicy with this one. I'm reminded of another take he had regarding BJJ (which he practices): A big guy with some basic BJJ training can probably take down most people he comes across with, whereas if you're a smaller person you'd need far more training to be effective. Weapons and techniques are force multipliers, if you are already capable of outputting force (through strength training or just sheer weight), the amount of force multiplication that you need to be effective is less than with someone who is less capable of outputting force. When it comes to weapon against weapon, I do think that Mike might be forgetting that, well, the other person is also wielding a force multiplier that they don't need much training to be deadly with, so at that point the difference in training and experience are what might tip the scales

There's nothing unnecessary about learning.

I think people often forget something very important: IT'S FUN!

well i gotta say i was waiting for it when i've watched Mikes video,still i think he was just taking a piss out of HEMA and having fun

I like Mike's content, but I would really love to hear him explain the logic behind choosing a specific weapon for self defense and not practicing with it. I'm pretty sure if we asked him if it's a good idea to buy a gun, put it on a shelf and think that you're immune to home invasions, he would tell us to go to the range and practice with it. Also, he doesn't seem to understand how probability works.

Some things I'd like to point out: In firearms training, as well as training with melee weapons, "weapon retention" is something that students drill on. In other words, no a trained swordsman is NOT going to let you disarm him. He knows what you're planning, and he doesn't want you to do it. I've done grappling in street fights. Even ground fighting in street fights. People tend to forget something about street fights. Specifically... they're on the STREET. Ever rolled around on hot asphalt in mid July? Because I have, and it is NOT fun. And that's before you bring in the issue of weapons, multiple opponents, etc. Simply put: you want to AVOID going to the ground in a real fight, under most circumstances. Lastly, Mike's comments about HEMA reminded me of the early days of the UFC. When the standup strikers would complain about the grapplers (particularly the Gracies) who insisted on going to the ground (and making a few good points in the process). But then the standup strikers decided to ACTUALLY TRAIN IN GRAPPLING. Even when they didn't become experts in ground fighting, they knew enough about to AVOID it. At which point the grapplers were forced to start standing up again (and then the Gracies sold the UFC without hesitation, because the main reason for starting the UFC was to advertise for their schools).

4:29 Shad is confirmed as Shōnen anime protagonist 5:48 if it is stupid but works, it ain't stupid 6:39 I believe this is how part of Hero's journey, starting how to grow yourself 7:50 Everyone can punch, but punching effectively without injuring yourself is what makes knowing martial arts better than just self-taught 9:24 *Facepalm* that's comparing apple to orange 10:35 I agree on this, the best way of self-defence is just get gun and trained with it 11:09 I believe the real martial arts function is to achieve harmony trough self-discipline 11:50 this is what he thought that traditional martial arts, it is obsolete compared to modern martial arts 14:29 just because you can fight in certain martial arts doesn't make you expert in handling swords 17:09 & 20:39 knowing is half of the battle 19:38 that's definition of simple yet awesome, simple movement can turn the battle 20:22 Practice make perfect 22:58 that's the lamest sword movement I ever see 23:06 Stance is the most basic thing in martial art, yet the most important thing that will decide the outcome of combat 24:33 I don't think just a couple of hours training can make you instantly expert, constantly training conditioning your body to act and react to such situation 25:00 Truth 34:22 Home attacker more likely taking something light like knife or handgun rather than something cumbersome, to maximize the chance of escape in case the homeowner strikes back 34:35 that's the half of battle 39:35 Go for the head Shad! 41:14 Expertise in one subject doesn't mean you can be an instant expert in another subject, even if it almost same 42:50 You can tell he isn't an expert because of his lack of self awareness 44:17 this is why gun is better for home defence 45:09 Clever guy 45:28 That's a load of BS 47:56 You can tell Shad had expertise from an actual sword fighting here 49:25 He's completely clueless about HEMA obviously 52:11 Simple things can change the course of action 52:38 Final conclusion of this video 52:51 Closing statement

Icy Mike overextendeds himself in these topic. He is a great teacher of hand to hand combat...not so of traditional weapons

I was a little surprised that there wasn’t a cold open with Shad going into an nerd rage… But then I remembered Shad has no issue addressing the argument without getting upset. Well done guys!

You and Mike should definitely do a hands on experiment on this. Now that would be a great collab!

Man, watching Shad's instantaneous reactions to every attempted attack is mesmerizing. One swift motion and he's gone from defending to the perfect attacking position. Every time. Without HEMA training I'm looking at this and just thinking, "How do you beat that?!"

The vast majority of home invaders (who don't have guns) will be armed with a prybar, or maybe a hammer. The thing they used to break in. So you need to defend against that and against being tackled, and you're pretty much set. A shield keeps them from getting a hit in with a heavy, unbalanced weapon, and a sword ready to thrust will deal with an attempted takedown. Unless, of course, you're a small, weak person, have a physical disability, or your home invader is extremely large, competent, or on PCP or something. Then, you're screwed. Which is what guns are for.

Another thing, Some offenders can be hyped up on drugs, which means they might be able to continue their attack, despite taking mortal wounds. This has happened in the US where responding police officer still get attacked despite shooting the attacker. So knowing how to property defend yourself while attacking is a good thing. Then again, I believe in never stop learning.

The martial arts RU-vid world finally crosses over with the medieval youtube world

Ending a fight earlier is ALWAYS better. Especially when weapons are involved. HEMA giving you the ability to end the fight earlier is a massive advantage. The longer the fight takes, the more likely you are to be injured.

its odd for someone that does martial arts to make such a bold claim. just like how everyone can throw a punch, it takes practice and guidance to throw a punch effectively. its even wilder when you introduce things that arent intuitive like joint locks and breaks which involve understanding certain body mechanics of how things ARENT supposed to bend. It also a whole different story when you introduce an opponent and then suddenly having to apply that knowledge on an person that wont just let you hurt them. TLDR: Just because you can swing a sword, doesnt mean you know how to use it.

It has finally happened. My love of and practice of mixed martial arts, has blended into my love of sword fighting and historical martial arts. And it’s from two of my favorite RU-vid channels! I love it! 😁

23:00 hell ya brother 😎 I'm a firearms instructor in America so someone breaking into my house is going to have such a bad time but love this video. This MMA guy's overconfidence is a common thing among that crowd in general. "Someone untrained with a deadly weapon can be deadly with it" is an obvious statement with zero application. The same could be said with guns and MMA itself, not just swords. If I gave a completely untrained person a gun and at least showed them how it worked, they can be deadly with it. BUT they would stand little to zero chance against a trained person with a gun. Same goes for swordsmanship and even for MMA. I did MMA for years and even when I was brand new, I could over power people with years of experience if I was much bigger and stronger than them or surprised them... Because my size and strength advantage was a force disparity. As the force disparity increases, the less training is required to be effective, especially if an intuitive weapon like a stick or sword. The problem is, in a self defense situation, you never want to voluntarily give your opponent a higher chance of killing you and if you win 80% of the time untrained, you would win 99%+ of the time with training. That's an astronomical difference in real life where you don't get a second chance. Even a 5% difference is astronomical in life or death terms. If this guy tried to spar with a trained swordsman, it would be hilariously humbling for him to realize he would never land a strike unscathed.

Okay.....before I start fully watching this: I hear homedefense + HEMA and my first thought is "well....where else if not at home is it viable?" Its not like the police uses ballistic shields in formations or anything. You add a pointy-stabby to that and become an armed intruders worst nightmare. (assuming living in america :) ) But calling ANY sort of martial arts (or even hobbies in general) stupid is it itself a stupid statement. Listing a few reasons for martial arts: exercise stress relief fun the surrounding community self-defense boosting confidence just because you, personally, dont like a hobby doesnt mean its shit.

The thing with real life fighting where your life is in danger is even if you know concepts of fighting, actually using them effectively is going to likely fail you in the heat of the moment. It's why in martial arts your are taught techniques repeatedly over and over again to enforce the muscle movements in your head to not just do it properly but instinctively. No matter if you tell someone to hold a proper guard and they know how to do it, the moment someone is coming at them with a weapon and a fight ensues, chances are that guard they have is going to fall apart in the heat of the moment, something only a lot of practice is going to help stop you from doing.

"An mma fighter give him a few hours with a rifle he's more dangerous than a soldiers who's been on half a dozen combat tours" - icy mike

Ah, another installment in my favorite series, "Revenge of the Shad".

I watched his video where he says Hema is useless but not fencing not realizing fencing is kind of part of Hema lmao

Mike's got to fight a hema expert now

I think the biggest takeaway is that if you don't know a martial art then it's way too easy to undervalue it. You don't know what skills you're missing out on and if you try to beat them at their own game you very quickly learn that training and experience adds a lot more on top of the core skills (spacing, timing, etc). You'll get heavily punished for all your mistakes and a lot of what you try will be countered. Ideally, train with what you plan to use. Also, if you can force the opponent to fight in a way they're unfamiliar with then that's going to help you out a lot. I.e. Sword and shield + HEMA will do you wonders against most people.

The back & fourth is great. Animated, enthusiastic, thoughtful discussion.

One very important point that both Mike (not sure of his name) and Shad are overlooking, or at least don't seem to take into consideration here, is that there is a very good chance, that the house break in is not done by ONE person. Wasting time with one opponent is a very dumb thing to do when you don't even know for sure that the opponent is the only enemy.

Being a Modern Classical Fencing practitioner - this isn't new to me. Since we're kind of in the middle - both HEMA people and sport/olympic fencing people make fun of us and like to point how we do things 'wrong' or 'non-optimal' etc. I'm so numb to this discussion I can't be bothered anymore. I know what I'm training and why. I like it this way. It's mostly for fun and health - it's not like I'm gonna walk around with a sabre to defend myself from muggers .🤦‍♂

No matter the argument, you should never say learning this or that is unnecessary. Information and training is so useful, even if a technique is older than more used techniques. You’d just be increasing your arsenal at that point.

This turned pretty quickly into a "How to beat up sword user house owners with a baseball bat tutorial".

Shad, you’re responding to a man who thought that unarmed he could beat a large wolf by blocking its bite with his arm and “not let it pull him down”, and wasn’t sure he could beat a sloth because they have big claws and he could die of infection.

I should think HEMA, isolated from other martial arts, is significantly better for home defense than it is for typical self-defense, but that's because HEMA is using lethal force, and there are many fewer times when lethal force is justifiable for self-defense than for home defense.

Oh hell yes! I’ve been waiting for this since I saw Hard to hurt. 😍

This video is really good, it shows one thing, Training matters, the problem they have there is basically they never used Swords, so they don't have the reference of an actual trained person, this is why its good, it puts an counter from someone who used it, the only better is them going to an actual HEMA trained person and doing the same like a control test, to see how many times the "not trained" others can touch them in comparisson

Shad it’s also worth mentioning how exposed the bat wielders hands are. Love your videos man!!!

Arguing with Shad is like trying to shout down a jet plane

One interesting thing about Hema is that it isn't JUST swords and shields and medieval weaponry, it also has wrestling, pugilism, savate, and various dagger/knife fighting styles. Taking that into account means that Hema cannot be written off as unnecessary or useless, as it has teachings for every kind of encounter. Weapons? Check. Striking? Check. Grappling? Check. Modern fighters could learn a thing or two from older manuals and books if they looked into them, especially considering that many of the "modern" techniques are similar to older ones or are directly evolved from them in the case of many wrestling moves.

“most guys” seems to be the point both arguments hinge on. The stereotype comes to mind of a person untrained in any form of combat intent on robbery. “Most guys” would probably also be unarmed or have a gun, knife, or club type weapon. They would probably depend on intimidation and surprise to get what they want. In that situation any form of training would give you an edge.

Ohh I was waiting for this one lol. Seriously, didn't think the response will be so quick.

“What are the odds of a home invader being trained?” Honestly? High. There are good chances of them having fighting or martial arts experience, especially in some regions more than others; you don’t put yourself into a position to fight people unless you’re comfortable with the possibility. If you’ve got two people with weapons with fighting experience, but one of them is not just generally experienced but experienced *with a sword* and *has a sword*, then that’s the key advantage compared to a guy with knife who’s used to street fights. That’s what Shad’s angle gets at.

I'd say the majority of hobbies are unnecessary and stupid to people who don't care about them

I knew that Shad was going to cover these spicy hot takes the moment I heard them

"Give an mma guy a sword for two hours and he's a problem" Absolute crap if he's talking about the opponent having as much experience in HEMA.

As someone who watches both of your channels for quite a while. I would be more inclined to agree with you. Excellent video as always. And God bless you.

Hey Shad, great video! For me, this is very comparable to chess. Some people are just naturally good without any training at all and figure it all out on their own. Some people can get very good with a large amount of training, and some people will just straight up never be good at chess. Just because 1 person might pick it up really quickly, doesn't mean that all other people with the same background will do so as well. And even if you are a natural who is capable of learning and experimenting on your own, reading a book, or getting a coach, will get you much further along than you could by yourself. No doubt doing MMA and having that physical awareness would make one more predisposed to understanding sword work than someone who isn't athletic. You'd probably learn it more quickly, but to think that just because you know how to move, therefore you can figure out all the intricacies of the sword to the point where taking lessons is irrelevant would be very arrogant. And that line of logic doesn't work for anything else. I couldn't just "figure out" everything there is to know about taekwondo just because I can box. Swords have different types of systems. Just because I can use a longsword doesn't mean I can use a cavalry saber or an axe. Perhaps the argument is that MMA is just very universal and adaptable, which I would agree with, since it is called Mixed Martial Arts for a reason. Is a person who does MMA going to have an advantage over most home intruders if he has a sword? Yeah. Pretty much any person with a sword would have an advantage over someone who didn't. But stick em with the pointy end is the very first lesson. If beating the lowest common denominator is all you want to achieve as a swordsman, sure, MMA would probably be enough. But if you actually want to learn how to use a sword, you have to learn how to use s sword. Some people might be prodigies, but that is an exception, not a rule. And just like chess, the results will speak for themselves. It doesn't matter how good you think you are. You either win, or you don't. And if you don't then it's time to reassess and train properly.

Well, I guess there are reasons why Eastern Martial arts with weaponry always starts with a wooden sword. You'll have to forgive me, but I am a HUGE believer in a strong foundation and repetition making sure your mind is ready when the offal hits the air circulatory device. It's become a reflex. In my years I've seen some pretty stupid things done by seasoned practitioners.

A concern I have when using a sword in home defense is most homes have a hallway a little more than 3 feet wide leading to a bedroom. Also, the ceiling is often only 8 feet high. A sword will often hit walls and ceilings in a fight. Even a baseball bat will have an issue in tight spaces. I see a lot of home defense guys training in a wide open gym, instead of fighting around furniture.

I would love to see a pressure test. That way we can see you and Mike or another two people actually run some test. Icy Mike is really good at creating and running real life, practical field test!

These are probably my favorite types of videos. Would be cool if you could collaborate/debate with Martial Arts guys for stuff like this in addition to the responding.

Good video, will have to check out Mike's video as well. Interestingly, after watching the clips of Mike sparring with sword and buckler I think his MMA training actually hurt his performance rather than helped. Once the distance closed he reacted as though he were going to face his opponent unarmed and almost seemed to consider his weapons as an afterthought instead of as the primary means of engagement. That's NOT a knock on Mike, since that's one of the goals of extensive training (so that you react to certain stimuli without having to pause to think). It does make me wonder if a complete combat noob, given an hour or two to mess around with the weapons in question, would perform better precisely because they would lack those "go to" conditioned responses. No idea how one would fairly and definitively test that, but it's an interesting thought.

I love BOTH Mike and Shad's channels, but no matter how you slice it (pun intended) Mike gets what he wants out of this interaction. For context I have 20+ years of HEMA and HEMA-adjacent experience and currently 4 years active in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I love all combat sports.

Hearing this convo, it sounds like a mix of Martial Arts (like jujitsu) and Hema can work together in shortening the training of either. And it could be further that, in order to become a great soldier in medieval times, one must train a bit with multiple kinds of weapons to grasp how they might be used, then master the one weapon

When people tell me that hurting someone with a sword is easy and you can just learn everything in couple of hours and be really competent I try to use a target with some kind of fabric around it (to somewhat simulate actual oponent) and giving them a sword so they can try themselve. They very quickly learn the words - edge alignment. People vastly overestimate their abilities with edged weapons and fail even the basic concepts of actually delivering the energy they put into the strike directly into a target. Some things seem intuitive until you actually try them and realize... hmm there is actually a lot more to this than just grabbing it and striking forwards.

Can I just say that I love long videos like this? 🙏🏻 That is all 👌🏻😌

I knew this was coming but man, I didn’t really expect it to come this quickly.

icy Mike in a couple of hours from now: "okay nerd, nobody cares". Not knowingly that he is a part of sword tube now (raid shadow legends included)

A lot of problems you will encounter in a home invasion situation are not applicable to either traditional or modern martial arts. I doubt either HEMA or MMA will prepare you for stepping on a Lego barefooted while trying to fight somebody. The answer to a guy with a bat when you have a sword, just like any other weapon is to wait somewhere in your home where the intruder must pass in order to harm you or your family, preferably where they will have no line of sight on you, and ambush them.

Is HEMA unnecessary and stupid:? Are videogames unnecessary and stupid? Are recreational sports (playing sports with friends) unnecessary and stupid? Are board games unnecessary and stupid? Is dancing unnecessary and stupid? No hobbies are literally necessary (whatever he means by "necessary"...). Calling it "stupid" is a matter of his opinion but... unnecessary? WTF he means? Saying that certainly is stupid.

You know what needs to happen right? Mike needs to train for a few hours with a sword and buckler and Shad needs to train for a few hours in MMA and then have a sparring match where you take turns with the baseball bat vs sword/buckler

One of my pals is a HEMA instructor and he often told me, that his pupils are often a bit reluctant when it comes to (historical) grappling.

Shad! Train him! Give him a few pointers over video chat or something and have him test again and see if he improved enough. That way you might have proven your point. Especially if you later could test you and him and train him a bit more IRL.

I think you really have a good point, especially when you demonstrated around 21:00 minutes or so where you pulled the sword back to retain it. That is something that would not be natural to even a trained MMA guy if he messed around with a sword, and it would be paramount to have those reps in terms of sparring specifically with a sword to understand those very important nuances if you wanted to use one for home defense. No offense to Mike, but I think that's a but of Dunning Kruger in effect. I honestly didn't think of little things like that that give you a very important edge, and you would not know then unless you trained hema. It's easy to generalize something when you are already looking at it from a 30 000 foot view. But having the specialization in it gives you much much more.

This may loosely apply to HEMA, but in a way applies to: I've seen a World War II hand-to-hand combat manual where the Brodie helmet was used as a sort of buckler against a knife attack. Has anything like this been done historically? (using similar helmets as a buckler?)

the Channel waponism has some great videos that show how experience with the weapon is a HUGE factor, when fighting someone of roughly the same physichal skill, but completely different discipline. one that I found specially interesting, was when a single dual wielding man proved to be a mayor problem for a group of regular kendo practitioners attacking at the same time, and it took the most experienced fighter in the school a couple of tries along with the group to actually manage to get the defender.

In my SCA group we always could pick out larpers. We concluded that the swords are so light and fast that they had improved reflexes.

Learning how to use a sword most effectively is the best way to learn how to use a sword effectively. Who would've guessed.

He has a history of sh***ing on other martial arts. I'd have thought after doing the same with Jesse Enkamp and having the guy extend the hand of friendship he'd have learnt his lesson. He just seems to think MMA is the best, so why does anyone bother doing anything else? I think Mike adds a lot of great stuff to the world of MA and has some brilliant insights on practical self defense, but I wish he would stop trying to bring everyone else down.

i have to agree with shad because i think generally people are underestimating how important it is to end a fight quickly. the thing is that, even if you have a sword, the longer the fight goes the more you drain yourself, and the more tired you are the more likely you are to make a mistake, and the more likely you are to make a mistake, the more likely you are to make a life ending mistake. even assuming you have some level of modern martial arts training it would be so much safer to get even just a few months of hema or equivalent training to learn proper edge alignment and very basic sparring techniques so that you can end a fight as fast as possible to make sure you don't take longer than necessary and get tired and make a simple mistake that costs you your life, because that can happen regardless of your opponents training level or armaments.

the part of rushing in on someone with a sword is very true in than even a noob will figure out that they can put the point between the attacker and yourself so that they impale themself. when I was in fencing (foil) we had someone who just applied tons of offensive pressure and getting inside your blade. he stopped doing that after I dropped into a low lunge and he bent the blade in half on his gut. we had to retire my favorite blade in the club after that, but we all learned how to deal with someone trying to close the gap. and he learned that even a very flexible sword to the gut still hurts a lot through protective gear

What we really need is Shad and Mike trying this against each other. That would be good content too!

Here is my stance that will annoy everyone, both Mike and Shad are right, thats right, Im gonna sit on the fence. Joking aside, you dont need the old manuals to know how to parry with a sword, especially if you know how to parry a strike with your body, but I dont think that learning from the old manuals is useless, like shad said, it can take hours if not days or more off of your training time, its why learning guitar by picking one up and just fiddling with it takes more time than having a tutor or using tabs and books, in most peoples cases. HEMA is a lot like Karate in a way, people think the very old school traditional Karate isnt dangerous or effective, but it can be, but you have to understand where the forms end and the fight begins, HEMA has that issue, most people just want to swing a sword around "the right way" with a few friends and thats all it is, but there are people who want to be able to say, "if somehow, some way I end up on a 14th - 15th century battlefield, im going to be able to handle myself" which is as good a reason to practice as any I think. One last Karate example, there has been many a book written on Karate, its history, its origins, and the real nitty gritty of each and every move or technique, do you need to read them to know Karate? No, but it will never hurt as long as its not the only thing you do. There are people who know Karate, there are people who understand Karate but the people who are the most effective have Both. Really good Video, cant wait for the Shad x IcyMike collab, its gonna be bonkers. ~J

HEMA at the very least, actually expands our knowledge of history as it interprets manuscripts and makes sense of them as well as aids in deciphering tapestries and other works of art (Discerning what is meant by various artistic decisions), this in some cases can go beyond what historians can figure out based on archaelogical evidence and theory. It is also fun. It's a hobby that can be done for fun. For the most part, any martial art is not necessary to learn because engaging in combat is not a particularly likely event in modern times and is as such primarily a recreational activity (One that also is exercise to boot)

With swords as well as guns: unless you want to put them in a museum and never use them, practice. Being a virtuoso violinist or swimmer can inspire you, but not train you. Train to make sure you don't injure yourself with a misused weapon, and to make sure you don't accidentally injure someone you should not injure. A weapon, a tool, is a responsibility. If you rely on it, you train with it. If you don't seriously train with it, you don't seriously rely on it.

I follow Both Hard2Hurt and Sensei Seth...and also you Shad. I would love you to teach Icy Mike some anti home invasion sword moves. I'm from the Caribbean and Machete Training is so important here!

As a lover of both these channels, my biggest hope is shad doing mma content and mike doing hema or other swordsmanship content

That look when the choice was axe and Shad’s brain tried to think of a move and was like “nope, that was the right choice, hard to beat it” lol. Although out of weapons i might propose a mid-spear as another great option since them coming into an enclosed hall with you able to brace and jab is one of the worst scenarios for them haha But seriously tho, that scene needs to become a meme