Is It Cheaper to Leave Your Heating on Constantly? 

Try tomorrow morning’s temperature in Chicago 4f for the rest of the world -15c

I wear shorts everyday.

@Random somebodies in a mood

Save yer money mate. No need for Siberia - just have a cold shower every morning. After you’ve woken up the neighbours with your screams, turned off the tap and dried yourself down, you’ll feel fantastic - and warm all over!

They probably have cheaper heating costs in Siberia...

France was the only place I did a test like this and it really surprised me, I lived in the south and we had terrible electric heaters in an old town house with basically zero insulation but cheap electric in the afternoons and at night. I used to run it on timers the first year and then the second year decided to test the difference early December over two very similar weeks weather wise. 24/7 beat the timers by roughly 10% and over the next couple of months as it became colder, the energy uses continued to drop to somewhere between 15-20%.

Masonry absorbs heat. When you turn off the heating, then the room temperature become lower than the walls, then the wall gives off heat back to the room. It is called _thermal mass._ So heat convects into the wall pushing back to the outside of the wall the line between hot and cold.. When the heat is off this line moves back towards the room. If the heating is on 24/7 the whole wall may become warm, then acting as a heat sink - wasting heat pouring excessive heat to outside. If the heating switched off for a time during the night when the heat moves back into the room, less heat is lost to outside.

@@johnburns4017 You are probably correct, although why in my situation would you turn it off at night during the five hours while electricity was half price? In terms of units, I had been using 60 per week on timers, it went down to 53 when 24/7, then I got addicted to taking a reading every Saturday morning and during the coldest weeks in January/February it had dropped to 48/49 per week. I was amazed.

@@morourke2561 The thinner the wall the more it is not worth 24/7 operation. The thicker, the more heat is absorbed.

Interesting! This heat sink effect has been known for a long time but not not exploited enough. I heard of an office building built years ago that had a moat of big rocks around it. Warm air was pumped via a heat exchanger around the offices. All computer controlled. In Turkey they use a lot of concrete frames in house construction. This gives a lot of thermal mass. So that houses are not as cold as they would otherwise be on colder nights.

What a fantastic piece of nostalgia and a wonderful example of how things used to be built to last. The potterton kingfisher floor standing boiler was definitely in the same class . Hardly anything to go wrong with them. I love the fact that you bought your upgrade via an eBay auction for a bullseye. Fair play to you sir 👍. New floor standing mexicos can set you back a couple of grand. Water content in 28 mm pipe is on the large side, but so what. Suitably impressed David 👍👍👍👍

Agreed central heating kept on 24-hours a day on low keeps the house Warm of condensation moisture around windows

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

The condensation comes from moisture in the air. If moisture is a problem where you live, it's cheaper and much more practical to use a dehumidifier rather than a heat pump or central gas heat. I have a big two story house, about 1,700 square ft. Except for nights when I sleep upstairs, I am downstairs on my computer, about 10 ft. away from my dehumidifier. The difference in my indoor humidity, as measured by the gauge on my dehumidifier is tremendous. Depending on the season, if shut off, it can measure 80% (I'm in Florida) but if I turn it on, two/three days later it is down to about 40%. Very comfortable indoors with no condensation on the windows, ever. The dehumidifier is cheaper to run, quieter, and simply takes the water out of the air and purifies the air additionally. If I run it constantly, which I don't because on beautiful days I like to leave the sliding door open, my bill will jump maybe $25 or so a month. If I relied on my heat pump or a/c, it would be much more than that. The unit keeps the whole house drier. Additionally, if the heat is only turned on to keep the very uncomfortable cold off, it can be used for 10 minutes a few times a day and the rest of the time a sweater or layered clothes is adequate. During the night, a very low setting will keep the pipes from freezing if you live in the north. We can do with a lot less heat and a/c than we do, for lower bills.

@@yellowbird5411 excellent point about the dehumidifier

Heating on at night gives me a headache, unless I leave the bedroom window open which would be expensive anyway.

1960s and no cavity? Seems odd.

Only jerry builders were building non cavity houses in the 60s. I thought building regs banned this well before. My father designed and built a bungalow in 1954 with cavity walls. How many people can tell what a cavity construction is or even care and buy a house with their eyes shut.

This! How people think it could be cheaper to leave it on all the time I do not know. Nice and warm and cosy yes but never cheaper

Spot on!

@@HIYAharry Basically it's about to be warm and cosy. Few more quid per season makes such a difference? Not really. I always kept constant temperature. Once the walls will warm up there is not that much energy needed to keep the temperature on the same level. My boiler keeps going for short periods of time and work within 35 - 50 deg.

@@HIYAharry Not so if you have a heat pump. Look at my detailed reply in this thread, we have run 24/7 this Winter, vs. on and off last Winter. Our heat pump efficiency has increased by over 25% vs last year and we have actually used less energy overall by running it constantly. This is measured exactly, it's not guesswork.

@@basiltozer9078 Exactly. Hours on full power.

The company's make huge money on their "advance payments" yes they refund you, but they are making interest on all the millions of people's money they are holding. You can ring them up and they will refund otherwise it gets carried forward to the next bill. Due to inertia there are few people that do this. Smart meters get over this problem, so that you are only paying for what you use.

I fully agree with you.same here..heating on for the early shower..so heating on from 5.30am till 7am.. then heating on again before we come home 16.30 till 20.00..👍🏼

The global energy market is the reason for the price rises. All energy suppliers are currently buying energy at 50% (or more) than they're selling it for due to the price cap, which is why many have been forced out of business.

I was thinking exactly the same thing as you. I even rang up the Utility company and started telling them, but the lady simply said, "We are moving to OVO and it's their policy to operate monthly direct debit withdrawals. Also, Martin Lewis was saying the same thing on his money saving programme. He said focus on heating the 'person', not the whole house. In other words, use insulation as a means of keeping warm, rather then just external heaters. That way, you maximise the retention of heat.

Yes it was a complete misnoma

@@SkillBuilder Hi Roger / I know it’s an older vid - might be worth reminding people not to switch off their boilers completely during the night - like my neighbour has been doing to save money & so she’ll not be protected by the frost protection on the boiler. I fixed her boiler after the cowboys came & went & giving her a quote for a new boiler installation. The boilers in great condition - but the diverter valve pump gave up the ghost. Anyhow - found out what she’s been doing re turning boiler completely off. Also reminded her about the TRV’s & not to turn off completely but turn to the frost position on them. Cheers

...might see if I claim for heating on work expenses due to 2 years enforced working from home...

We have had a very very mild winter up to now Many days.in December were the warmest since records began I have not.once ,this winter had to defrost my van at 7 am before going to work

You could easily install a secondary meter to measure your consumption, available from BES.

@@geoffaries I looked at that a few years ago and I have a friend who is a Calor engineer but I can average out the consumption over a year and compare that way without having to seek Calor's permission as the only accessible place to put it is between the tank and the isolation valve where the pipe runs into the house. So the isolation vale would need to be moved first.

You don't hear an awful lot about thermal gradients these days. Basic building technology stuff at college in the eighties though

Same here. I have 200mm pir underneath the slab and the house is SIPS construction. We have found we used less last winter by keeping it on and never letting the slab cool.

Witchers don't get cold surely

Modern controllers can get metrology information from the internet for your location so no need for a weather sensor.

Or just use opentherm, which a lot of boilers have, and a nest (or similar) smart thermostat. Works the same as weather compensation but uses local weather information and predictions instead of a weather sensor.

Very good point.

@@alipaulstagram OpenTherm itself does not specifically use local weather online, that is just one of the potential inputs that can be used as part of its algorithm replacing a sensor, some OpenTherm installs just use outdoor sensors with no online connectivity. OpenTherm is just the bus protocol, similar to eBus etc.

Similar to us really.

Has your boiler got a basic on/off thermostat? If so it will be barely any more efficient than your old boiler. You’ve got a high efficiency boiler but without load/weather compensation it’ll be running too hot to condense.

@@thomassmith7819 although weather compensation will get the most efficiency from his new boiler, even if not condensing fully, it will still be circa 20% more efficient than the old boiler. I would try setting the boiler thermostat to 70 degrees, especially if the house insulation has been improved since the old system was installed. I wouldn't expect the direction of flow to have changed just because the system is now fully pumped.

We have a 1988 Potterton Kingfisher boiler which only needs a new pump every 15-20 years and a litre of inhibiter every 10 - 15 years. The Ideal combi which my son has was 15 years old and was replaced recently with a GlowWorm combi. The Ideal was nothing but trouble needing parts every few years.

@@fivish That's very good that the Ideal combi lastest that long, any combi that lasts more than 10 years is doing well, Vaillants probably have the longest life of any boiler, system or Combi. The inhibitor needs testing every two years and after 5 years it's probably not doing very much, in an old cast iron boiler this is not an issue, the main issue is sludge and corrosion radiators, but the main concern with old system is the design and positioning of the Open Vent and Cold Feed, not may old systems are "sealed systems".

Lol 😂 brilliant

Wow, it is good to hear that I am not the only martyr here, my lady is never happy with temperature while I am going around almost naked and suffering from heat.

280 a month in a new build that is shocking lol. I spent £55 a month in a solid brick end terrace.

£400 a month ?!?!?!?!! I hope your wife earns an income.

House too hot increases risk of stroke and heart attack. Keep fighting back lads! 💪

@@oldlonewolf9649 I worked in a secure soundproof glass office with 6 women and I honestly thought I had diabetes or was suffered from some undiagnosed illness I felt so ill with the heat being on all day. 22-24 degrees was not uncommon. Started to get leg cramps and everything it was horrendous lol

That is the issue in a nutshell but any house that is losing heat so fast that it can't be reinstated in a few hours is going to cost a lot more to keep at the constant temperature. You really can't apply your logic without knowing more about the building and the life pattern of the people. If they are out all day and you are heating the home to keep the cat warm that is going to cost you money. Heat is not free.

@@SkillBuilder I'm in 24/7 due to health issues... Hence the need to remain warm... I live in such a house and have spent all this cold spell trying to figure out the most cost effective way of heating it... I've tried solid fuel - reopening a fireplace, wood, timed gas heating and now constant gas heating, and it's the only one that heats the house in a cost effective manner in line with no heat at all, because the energy companies have raised the standing charges so high use it or not you're paying a substantial amount for nothing... You might as well get the benefit of a system wide heating system, and accept it's no cheaper or expensive as intermittent or supplemented with solid fuel... So far with a 19.5C day temperature and 17.5C night temperature (and 0.5C discrimination on the heating) I'm paying slightly less than 2 hours in the morning and 30 minutes in the evening and not reaching set temperature... So having to supplement with electric heaters on one room. Which restrict you to that room if you have a health condition... Not to mention the additional cost. With no rapid drop in temperature you don't get that cold damp feeling or condensation in the morning, my dehumidifier just isn't turning on - that saves 400w when it's on... and the reason you get the condensation is because you don't have the ventilation (aka heat loss) you had in the old days... The more you seal yourself in the more you have to maintain the balance artificially. I was throwing away 5.5 litres of water every other day extracted from the air, and no my house is not damp and does not have a leak. That's drawing 60%-90% humility down to 55% which is comfort level for me. It also prevents any accumulation of mould near windows too. As you well know as the temperature drops (especially rapidly) the ability of air to hold moisture reduces so it condenses on surfaces, hence feeling damp and mould... If your house is dropping to 10-12C then you've got a damp issue, and the heating isn't going to raise that in an hour or even two without putting a huge amount of energy into the heating very quickly... A very costly venture for a very highly rated heating system... So after two or three hours if your lucky the 10C is now about 17C (and that's with a good 30Kw system) and your five layers of clothing that feel hot is too much, so you're now down to three layers, but your heating has turned off and it's now reducing slowly by 1C an hour (which for an unheated house is quite good in subzero external temperatures) but you've never attained an acceptable temperature and will slowly suffer from the cold if you don't realise it's getting colder... Think of the old folk, think of those who aren't self regulating body temperature that well... Those at work can afford secondary and supplemental heating...

How much are you spending per day for that?

Opposite here lol my misses is always red hot 😁🙈

Had the same problem, disconnected the mechanical thermostat and covertly fitted an electronic programmable stat in an enclosure.the sensor for the programmable stat was in the mechanical stat. The wife wasn't aware of this mod and she still kept cranking the old mechanical stat up.😂😂😂

Women only understand how most men feel (hot) all their lives once they (women) reach the menopause!

Jaysus, you're climate change personified - a double whammy burning peat!

@@pumpkinhead456 nah he sold his private jet to buy the peat burner. He's practically carbon negative

@@pumpkinhead456 I grow lettuce too..carbon neutral I am.

I would recommend using weather compensation in the UK precisely for the reasons that Roger gives, I'm also a fan of programmable room thermostats, where I time shift the temperature throughout the day, my house has default temp. of 18deg.c

Mathew, You hit the nail on the head here my friend, Opentherm is essentially the means of smartly controlling the boiler modulation, much like the commercial controls solutions that I install. Essentially as the boiler flow and return temperatures get closer together (this is called DeltaT) the smart thermostat (Nest, Hive) etc will reduce its signal to the boiler and allow the boiler flame to subside to a minimum output and its during this time the boiler is operating at its most efficient.

Yes, I have the Nest Gen 3 which is Opentherm compliant, although my boiler is a Worcester Bosch so I bought an adapter from the Netherlands to convert WB language to the Opentherm standard. The Nest does weather compensation as it gets live weather data and also learns how fast is takes my house to heat up so all in all a good solution. I think the optimum temperature is around 55oC for condensing and you can see on my boiler the temp going up and down as it modulates to suit. It means your radiators are not always red hot which can confuse people but it’s doing its job! Imagine the amount of gas we would save as a country if all boilers were set-up with Opentherm - bet that wasn’t mentioned at COP26! 😏

Vaillant/Gloworm is eBUS many others are OpenTherm, problem is the installers not pushing it and/or consumers not wanting to replace all their existing controls with compatible ones. Also why Vaillant is one of few suppliers that do not support OpenTherm in the UK (yes in NL they do but officially do not sell the board to make that compatible), but their eBUS does the same thing if using their own controls.

Yea, it should be made standard for all new installs, it’s a no brainer especially in a emission-conscious world we’re now living in. But again installers are either not aware or just don’t understand the technology. I know Baxi, Ideal and Intergas support the Opentherm standard and others do their own propitiatory version.

Gosh, I’d feel freezing if the house was below 68°F (20°C)! Offices are almost always kept at 72° (22°) because that is always thought to be a comfortable temperature for sedentary occupants. My friends and I had to ask a friend to turn his heating up from 64°F (18°) when we visited last winter because we were all so cold! I always keep my thermostat at 72°F (22°C) and turn it up a degree or so if I feel cold.

I have the same situation like you had and I am going to do the experiment, as I had the thermostat set at 20 degree only when I am home ,in specially after 8pm until morning and it costs me 5pounds per day,which I think it.s quite a lot for me. So, I am going to proceed and leave the heat on the entire day. Hope I will have good results same as you. I am glad you wrote about it ,it gives me more courage seeing someone already did this, cause i was doubting a bit. So..thanks😁 Have a warm winter and Happy Holidays !

That’s interesting. We live in an old 1940s cottage with old double glazing and very little wall insulating. I think as our houses take so long to heat up, leaving the heating on all the time is the best way. It’s okay if you’ve got a house that warms up quickly - switching heating on/off works.

@@The_oven_door I have now switched to the timer and a slightly lower temperature to see if I can cut the bills. It's already noticeably less comfortable but I'll wait to see if it really has any impact on finances, it's a very worrying time!!

@@gibfear So you prefer to be uncomfortable for the sake of lower bills? Funny dude!

@@TRPGpilot I'll tolerate a slightly less comfortable house and be able to pay my bills. Can you comprehend that?

@@gibfear no, you live in a 1st world country . . .

Nice of you but have you ever watched those kinds on University Challenge? They make me feel very stupid.

Orrrrr.... instead of moving house they could simply apply some common sense and logic by turning the heating off when they're out/when it's not needed lol how anyone could attempt to argue against the Laws of physics/Thermodynamics is beyond me - I always leave my engine running incase I need to go anywhere, cheaper than turning it on again

@@numerouno2532 That comparison doesen't make any sense

@@soulfester6241 I know! I also leave the oven on the whole day because it's cheaper than waiting for it to heat up again every time.

@@numerouno2532 The comparison is different yet it's nonsense like the other one 🤣 How can you compare those two things to not having your home reach 15 degrees and then having to heat up every evening all the way to 20/21?

@@soulfester6241 I know, did I mention I keep my toilet button pressed down constantly too?

Don't forget that flueless gas heaters create a lot of moisture.

Lovely damp feeling bedding and clothes that never dry. 😔

@@TurinTuramber Great point, very true,…..I have a very well insulated castle so it retains heat and doesn’t feel damp…… I do however visit homes which are full of mould because they don’t air their homes or put on the heating combined with the moisture producing human habits ie. Bathing, cooking etc

@@TurinTuramber My house has so much damp that when I put the heating on I get condensation literally running down the walls. :-(

@@TurinTuramber dehumidifier sorts the clothes drying.

@@djtaylorutube I would put the heating on long before I run dehumidifiers!! I moved out when I was 19 so was poor and cold for many years. These days I like my comforts.

And once dressed, trying to scratch a hole in the frost on the inside of the bedroom window, to check the weather!

Thank you, it has been a long hard road to get here but getting back to zero may be quicker.

Hi Paul I fully appreciate your point and I thought long and hard about this very thing before making my video. I may return to the subject because there is a case to be made for leaving your heating on low but it is not economy. If you simply compare one year with another you need to make all the adjustments for the variation in temperatures. All the trials I have looked at show that the heat loss from buildings needs to be replaced. You can either do this by matching the heat input to the losses, which is your approach with good controls, or you can let those heat losses do their thing and then top up the heat for the periods you need the heat. My assumption is that people heat their house for 1 1/2 hours or so in the morning and then for 6 hourse in the evening. When the boiler kicks in it will be running cold and the heat input will be high. The initial firing up will be in condensing mode but towards the end of the period the boiler will be hardly condensing. Even in a non condensing mode the efficiency is going to be in the high 80's. So we can say that the boiler is running, maybe, 6% below the efficiency that it would achieve running at a flow temperature of 50 deg. All this will be subject to wide variations according to outside temperatures. I am nowhere near clever enough to run a computer simulation for all the variations. If you can produce a graph that proves your point then a lot of boiler manufacturers will be interested because, so far, I have only seen evidence that supports my statement. I am happy to learn and issue a correction or even take that video down it I am wrong. As I said in my video, thermal comfort is greater when the temperature is even so it may well be that you can set the room temperatures lower. That would be a game changer and I suspect this simple fact would be enough to explain why so many people are saying they save money.

@@SkillBuilder can you provide me with an email address and I can send you graphs proving my point.

@@SkillBuilder OpenTherm Explained OpenTherm is a communication protocol between heating controls and the boiler to modulate the temperature flow through a heating system. This can increase the energy efficiency of a heating system whilst maintaining the desired set point temperature in the home. Here we explain how three types of heating systems operate. Heating systems with basic controls Basic heating systems control the temperature of a home by heating the water running into the radiators at one temperature, then switching the boiler off when the room reaches its set point. The boiler will then switch on again when the room temperature drops below set point. This standard on/off operation often over/under shoots the set point when used with basic heating controls. Heating systems with ON/Off modulating heating controls ON/Off modulating heating controls adjust the average water temperature within the heating system by cycling your boiler On and Off periodically. In this setup the water temperature produced by the boiler itself is still fixed. The On/Off period is determined by several factors but is primarily based on how hard your heating needs to work to reach the target temperature. For example, when heating up a cold room or during cold conditions where rooms are cooling quickly, the boiler will be On for longer periods - these are ‘high load’ conditions. In ‘low load’ conditions, such as maintaining a temperature, the boiler may only be on for a few minutes at a time. This translates to high load conditions generating, on average, higher water temperatures than low load conditions. When compared with basic On/Off thermostats this uses less energy to maintain more comfortable conditions. Note: may or may not overshoot, but there will be a small ripple around the setpoint OpenTherm heating system with OpenTherm modulating controls OpenTherm modulation operates on a similar principle but is achieved more directly by setting the desired water temperature from the boiler rather than by cycling it On and Off. For ‘high load’ conditions a high water setpoint can be requested from the boiler. The water temperature being requested will then reduce over time as the room temperature approaches set point. The important difference here is that the boiler will run for longer periods but it will be producing water at lower temperatures, resulting in less energy being used and maximising the time spent in the higher efficiency condensing mode. One of the main benefits of OpenTherm modulation is more stable and accurate control of the room temperature, even when compared with On/Off load compensation controls. Note: May or may not overshoot but will have a stable control (Very minor fluctuations - but better than On/Off load compensation).

@@PabloMartinezLive hey Paul, would love to chat to you as I am also well involved with the Bms company at an office building I manage. Old fashioned 4 pipe active chilled/heated beams. New boilers but still high gas Bills. Anyway, my opentherm at home is currently controlling my boiler to 30c flow temp with a comfort set point of 19c 24/7. Sometimes I see this creep up as high as 35c if it gets colder but in general it's just ticking it over. Some rooms are nearly at 21c but the coldest room on the hall is 19c. It sets back at night to 18c but heating the home with 30c is great.

Whats your boiler? I fit alot of weather compensation as most customers are home all day plus the boiler condenses as you say.

@@tomhilditch3882 Thanks for your interest. The boiler is a Valiant ecoFit Pure 418 18kw installed last week. I Currently have a Nest control system. My understanding is that I would have to switch to the Valiant control systems to get weather compensation.

I have a nest and a viessmann which lets me use opentherm mode - so the nest is controlling the boiler temp. That’ll be room compensation/load compensation so the flow temp will be based on the difference between current and target temp and how long it detects it takes to get up to temp. Similar to weather comp but not using an external sensor. In current weather its often running around 46-50c and gives a nice comfortable feel

I would say your house is very badly insulated , or your radiators are too small, tiny radiators are a pain .

Wear a jumper not t shirt and shorts. This is northern Europe not Southern California.

@@billgreen576 hoodie and jogging pants are standard attire when in the house. Thanks for the tip though 👍

Would it not be cheaper to exchange the Mrs for a variant which doesn’t require 18 C at night.

Sounds like your radiators are undersized which seems common nowdays when, with a condensing boiler, the opposite is desirable. A result of competitive tendering (imo) since large radiators obviously cost more and people don't compare rad sizes at the quotation stage. Or may be your rads are clogged with cobwebs & dust on the airside fins so greatly reducing convection (radiators heat 85% + by convection). Easy to fix with a bottle washer brush, a lamp and a mirror (not so easy with the enclosed type finned rads that have a top casing, i assume that this is removeable !!) The Mrs won't need an 18 deg C bedroom if she had a modern electric under blanket (with room temp compensation, room colder, more heat into bed; they come with individual temp. controls for a double bed) and a high TOG duvet with a blanket on top of that if needed. A good dressing gown & slippers are useful too. People forget the old British Gas `Guaranteed Warmth' advertisements (late 60s ??) .... the guaranteed temperatures were ..... Bedrooms 60 deg F (15.56 C); Hall, Kitchen, Bathroom 65 deg F (18.33 C); Living rooms 70 deg F (21.11 C). N.B. I live in an 1890s end terrace, my bedroom routinely falls to 14 deg C at night and I'm quite warm enough in bed with only boxers on. I've certainly never left the heating on all night. Today I've had my heating on for 2 hours in the morning (the living room stat never attained it's 18.5 deg C setpoint but nearly did) and nothing since, the living room temperature has decayed to 16 deg C and I don't feel cold - I have 4 T shirts, one Jumper and two pairs of `Long Johns' on. A bit eccentric? Yes i guess, I consider it a challenge to use as little gas as possible. Having a shared warm wall helps of course. It depends on one's mood as well to some extent how much heat you need in the house, and on exercise - coming back from a long walk one feels warm for quite a time in a cool house.

Exactly as expected. :-)

Yep, you are right, Your answer is better. Obviously, switching the heating off, will save some fuel, because, obviously, for a time the house being colder, the heat loss will slow down. BUT, as you mentioned, the saving will be minimal, and so, will not justify the hassle of being cold till it heats back. The same goes for heat recovery systems. Those are damn expensive, and the heat loss for the few minutes every day opening the windows will be much cheaper than the gizmo.

Leave it on continuously and set the temperature to 14 minimum and turn it up when you need it warmer. You will keep away from the dew point and remove any damp corner mould problems

In essence your idea of running the heating all day would have worked, if you set the target temperature higher to start with and then each hour reduced it by 1 degree throughout the day, then increased by 1 degree an hour to reach a desired occupancy temperature by the time you come home. So maybe 20 by 08:00, then 19 by 09:00 and so on until you reach 15 by 01:00 and then slowly increasing again so that by 04:00 it would be 18 and by 18:00 it would be 20 which you again can slowly drop over the evening until bed time.

@@PabloMartinezLive You're absolutely right, maintaining a level of heat that is comfortable and efficient for the boiler to maintain, without letting the temperature drop to steeply would have been the optimum way to run it. But the system was an older type with quite a basic electronic LCD display type controller. So it was either off, on constant or timer with very basic on and off timing options, the thermostat was a rotary mechanical type on the wall, not the most accurate but functional. Although to be fair I had individual rad thermostat valves and had 2 zones of heating upstairs and downstairs, I just used to leave everything fully open because we needed the whole house heating, having a family and multiple bedrooms. The heating system we have now is a much more efficient condensing boiler type with a tado controller, so I have much better app control and finer control of temp etc At the time of the experiment, I just wanted a system I could set and leave, not have to monitor it or adjust etc So it was a good valid test that confirmed to me the most gas used was getting the temps up to comfort level from cold ie first thing in the morning, then later in the day in the evening after it had been off all day. The most efficient for us was a mix of leaving it on all day at weekends when we were all mostly at home and shutting it off during the week in the daytime as we were at work or school. What I could have done further was find that optimum temp of comfort and efficiency, which is more or less what you suggest by adjusting the temp to the lowest setting possible without shutting it off completely to maintain a suitable level of comfort. My test was like an all or nothing approach, in winter our heating was on full, it was a cold house with outside winter temps of -5c up to 7 or 8c max, 10c maybe on warmer days through winter but very rare. Those were the days with the solar gains through the windows our house warmed up naturally without any additional heating but they were the exception rather than the norm. The conclusion was leaving the heating on all day used more gas but surprisingly not that much more. It was an easy decision to make for us, I remember how cold my house was growing up, just a single coal fire down stairs heating an old back boiler that didn't really work properly! Yes frost on the inside of my bedroom window, condensation, damp walls, my mum trying to make a fire first thing in the morning, us all huddled round it in our coats shivering! I also remember my dad fitting central heating in that same house and the difference through winter was incredible, we were TOO hot lol happy days! 😊

It can't actually work out cheaper if you heat the house to the same temperatures because the rate of heat loss cannot be less, but you may lower the temperatures and increase the comfort levels so, under those circumstances, you may have a very marginal increase in gas consumption. The boiler will be more efficient at a lower temperature so that is another factor.

as someone mentioned in another comment about french houses with stone walls. the technique of having it on 24/7 on a low setting, seems to work pretty well there to because of the thermal buffering capabilities of the hard stone material, you're basically heating up the bare stones, and get ambient heat radiating from the walls at which point it probably also pays off to have very big radiators as you're focusing more on distribution. the fact that there's no stucco or wallpaper getting in the way of the stone probably helps quite a bit. i think all these factors play a pretty big role, thermodynamics is complex matter lol

True though. The oven thing is definitely sound advice.

Star jumps are the best. Warms you up and good cardio vascular exercise. They should be compulsory- 20 star jumps per hour.

You say “not much more expensive” but the difference in those figures is more than 25%. I think most would be happy to reduce their heating bill by a quarter….

@@nigelbarton8350 must apologise nige on reflection I forgot not everyone can or do leave there CH on for 14 hrs a day ! An extra 10 hours is at 7/5 ratio so who budget and do say 8 to 10 then 4 to 9 cost go from 33% - at min 50% more Impossible for struggling families people on benefit on old prices ! God help them now at these predicted prices ( ELF quoted me 9p plus for gas on 24 month deal ffs ) My 2.4p deal ended in Nov sob lol . Now every man an his dog curse ridding the fireplace an gas fire , at least we could toast our feet before going to a ice cold bedroom or sit on a freezing toilet seat lol 😂 It does amplify my reply an yours to me how varied things affect us depending on our situation . I came across as a pompous well off but I’m a Caring single OAP sickened at cuts to the poorest sadism is truly rife in Tory party !

@@jimmorris5700 Hey don’t be hard on yourself Jim, you didn’t come across that way at all. I was just thinking that the daily difference doesn’t sound huge, but over a year it is. We have moved to using our wood burners far more and turning the rest of the heating down for most of the day, we’re lucky to have lots of wood for free as neighbours are keen to get rid of it when they have tree work done and I am hoping to break even with last years bill as a result. But as you say I pity families on lower incomes or without this fallback.

yeah i tend to turn it off or very low when i go out too i just like to have the option of giving me that kick of heat when you turn it up again.

Been considering the same set up for a 4 bedroom detached self build but adding thermostats to all of the zones hoping this will work well.

You still should be able to achieve it through delta t balancing, it can be more tricky with a mix of underfloor and rads which is one situation when hydraulic separation like a low loss header would help.

Is it a suspended floor? How is it insulated so that you only heat the boards and not the sub floor? Does it work well for you? I've been considering it but am skeptical.

@@ChrisLee-yr7tz timber boards on joists so there is an air gap. The UFH was installed by clipping the pipes to thin aluminium spreaders, bent into a U shape which were attached to the underside of the boards and the sides of the joists. It was a self build - only cost £300 but it wouldn’t have been possible except for the fact that the basement below was being dug out and the ceiling was down, and I had help from a mate who knew what he was doing.

Which thermostat and trvs do you use ?

@@christophercrowley7574 we use the Tado thermostat

Good luck mate, hard times

@@greggreg9677 Indeed.

@@greggreg9677 Cheers, Merry xmas

I live in a block of flats,I have GCH & put on my heating on a low setting on October & leave it on until March,my flat was built in 1978,the Sound proofing & insultation isnt great,my flat stays at about 16-18c & it suits me fine & works about 75p - £1 per day.....I cant bare a home that is really hot & stuffy....

Exactly the same for me. If heating on timed periods I have to set to 21c to feel warm because the fabric is cold. If I leave at 19c the house is much more comfortable and the boiler runs on opentherm so rads are about 33c.

I thought this so I tested it over the winter and spring this year and having the heating on constantly with the thermstat set to room temperature to keep it comfortable was a terrible idea. I have now switched over to the timer which runs 4.30 am to 5.30am and then 6.30 pm - 7.30 pm and this keeps the house comfortable and cost far less. In spring we are only running for an hour in the morning. Turning the heating off completely is a bad idea because all the pipes start radiating very cold air and your house just becomes one massive fridge and be way too cold even on a sunny warm day. So yea, big advice is KEEP ALL DOORS IN THE HOUSE SHUT at all times and RUN heating once a day for a short period. In winter you can increase the timing of the 2 heating periods. You will defo save alot on your bills whilst keeping your house at comfortable levels.

Yes there is going to be another big rise. I don't think that Boris has any real problems right now compared to the shit that will hit the fan when people start getting cut off. I can see the headlines now.

Can I ask what temperature you have your boiler at the moment please? I've been experimenting with a flow temp from 55 - 75 over the last week or so. Low flow temp and heating off at night the house was not getting warm. Last night flow temp of 75 and left heating on all night with thermostat at 16....house is a lot more comfortable but I have turned the flow down to 70 today....it's a minefield! Thanks

@@Mrs.S-UK I have a Bosch Combi boiler that is 11years old,I’ve set the room stat to 24 degrees C and put the boiler temperature down to 3,this keeps the water circulating in the central heating all the time day and night and keeps the house nice and warm and at a steady temperature,if we get a warm day I just turn the boiler temperature down to 2, I have done this for the last 40years obviously Not with the same boiler,this is only the third boiler I have ever bought and this is my second Bosch. Each house is different because of the amount of insulation is in it,I have loft insulation double glazing and cavity wall insulation in my current property,like for like with our neighbours our Gas and Electricity bills are always lower than theirs even though we’re retired now and they are still working but they have theirs on a timer which switches theirs off during the day and durning the night but they run their boiler at the maximum boiler temperature,getting it right can take a few days to sort out but it’s worth the trouble to have a warm house all through the cold winter months.

@@davidellis279 thank you. We have a small two bed house with the same as you re insulation windows etc. what would you say number three is on the flow temp ish? I’ve turned it down to 65 tonight and will leave it on again tonight at 16 on the thermostat and turn it up in the morning. It makes sense to have the flow temp lower and the thermostat high so the radiators don’t keep going off and on. Thank you do much for your reply.

@@davidellis279 just googled it and I think 3 is around 60

@@Mrs.S-UK No problem,it’s all trial and error until you get it right,changing your boiler temperature a little can take hours before you feel the difference, it’s a bit of a pain but once you’ve got it right it works great just leave it alone to get on with it, it will need adjustment from time to time as outside temperature’s change, if it gets to warm reduce the boiler temperature a little as I do and if it goes cold again just reajust the boiler temperature back to where it was. Hope this helps,have a great Christmas and New Year.