I bought a digital Yamaha piano as an absolute beginner five years ago. If I had not been able to play with headphones I don't think I would have stuck with it because I hate the idea of other people listening in the next room, with me struggling painfully with a piece. I have just upgraded to a Kawai CS11 and am very happy with it - grand piano action, wooden keys, soundboard, hidden controls.
I've only had the Kawai for a month now. It's a much more expensive instrument than my Yamaha YDP-S31. Certainly the Kawai is reliable. I have also never had a problem with the Yamaha in five years except that the plastic sustain pedal now has a little squeak. I love that the Yamaha was so compact and has very few buttons on it. One day I would love to own an acoustic piano, but this suits my lifestyle.
Josh; nice, worthwhile, informative video. For 30 to $40.**, a lapel microphone, and a separate 20ft cable can be found on Amazon, (lots of choices). I think it would be worth the investment to have better sound level, and continuity in future videos. Otherwise, no complaints, nice job.
Just another detail, he's facing away from the mic which is a problem. If it were under the camera, the audio quality would be better because his sound would be traveling toward the camera and mic instead of it being behind him. and since piano sound radiates outward especially on a grand, it doesn't much change the sound if the camera is near the mic
Aren't these things disassembled before transportation? Obviously it wouldn't be good for the parts to be removed or put back again constantly. But I always assumed that the "lifting a fully assembled grand piano to a room 4 stores high" was only real in cartoons.
Grew up with two classically trained musician parents, a baby grand Steinway (still in the family) and a long-gone baby grand Chickering. 60+ years later I’m re-starting from scratch on a 76-key Yamaha keyboard. It’s no Steinway but I’m having fun.
I had the chance to play Gould's Chickering in Toronto. I was amazed how well the technicians were able to turn it into a completely viable instrument, with a smooth controllable action. Kudos to whoever worked on that one.
I think the biggest problem is developing touch sensitivity. Because you can change the volume with a button, it's hard to judge how hard or soft you're hitting the keys if you never play an acoustic.
There’s a lot of new keyboards that are very touch sensitive. I have a Roland RD 2000 that’s weighted and touch sensitive. Obviously not better then a acoustic but it’s pretty close. I can barely hit the key and it’s really quite and I can pound on them and it’s really loud lol
I kind of agree. I bought my kid a low range digital piano, and it doesn't have the touch sensitivity. While his teacher is teaching him on acoustic and they have paces where she tells him "now quiet", "now hard" etc...and they modulate the sound of the peace it's really great. He can't do that with our digital one so we just practice the thing kind of flat, and I totally feel he is a bit annoyed about this.
Better to be playing on a digital, than not at all, in my opinion. I was one of those people who swore up and down that I'd never own or play on a digital. Then cost became a factor, and the truth is this, going from an acoustic in absolutely terrible condition to a nicely made digital gave me the opportunity to play again and enjoy it. And not just that, but also the ability to polish pieces and tone production to a point completely unattainable to me on the acoustic that we previously owned. They have improved digital pianos immensely over the years. Is it the best piano to get me to the level I want to reach? No. Is it the best piano that I can afford right now? Yes. We plan to upgrade as finances allow. It's a temporary solution on the way to a better one. And I have the ability to train and practice as much as I can in the in between. It's a much better solution than allowing my piano playing to be stagnant until finances allow for a nicer acoustic. Buy the best you can afford and continue to save until you have the means to improve the quality of your piano. Better to be playing than not at all.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Playing music should be about ENJOYMENT!! If you find an instrument that makes you happy when you play it, I say that's wonderful. My old Roland has one too many keys that are malfunctioning, I don't want to try and repair it myself, nor do I want to pay for a technician, so I decided I will finance the purchase of a Yamaha I checked out the other day at cascio music. I tried a bunch of digitals, and since I've been playing on my Roland for 8 years, I know what I like and don't like. It's all about experience and joy.
Brenda, you passed up an opportunity to learn to tinker/fix an acoustic piano. It brings rewards, if you get into it, in that you can immediately reglue a felt on an errant key in an old piano. A while ago, 1978, I got two months rent free in a house by refelting their M&H grand. But, then, too, digitals have progressed from Kurzweil days. They're a serious alternative to people with limited means and space. Cheers, JL
Exactly and especially for beginning players.... BUY AN ELECTRIC/DIGITAL PIANO because maybe after playing a couple weeks or months you decide that piano aint your thing and then what? You bought a very expensive piano for the sake of trying it out. Only buy an acoustic one as soon as you are READY for it and as soon as you are sure that the piano will be used for music instead of catching dust right?
I recommend to start with a good digital piano, instead of an acoustic one, because as an music instrument, the accurate tunning, is way important than its touch and sound quality. As a piano tunning technician, I've seen many kids' listening was damaged by the bad tuned acoustic piano . They cannot tell the piano is out of tune even they have high performance level. And some of them get used to the wrong tuning. A good acoustic piano is good only when it is nicely tuned by a good technician frequently, and most people's piano are not maintained good enough.
- excellent point! I agree fully ... the quality of digital pianos has greatly improved in recent years - as a teacher I have no hesitancy to recommend a Yamaha P-125 over a poorly-maintained acoustic piano. I myself use the P-125 and find that the opportunity to practice more frequently at odd moments without disrupting family life is having immense paybacks - my over-all playing is staying at a consistently higher level. And when I go to play on our church's Yamaha CFX 9 it seems to just draw out all the finesse of the practice on the P-125 - the transition is practically seamless ....
Hey Josh I appreciate these videos. I play in my free time as a hobby, just as a thing I enjoy and want to get better at. I like that you don't have the condescending attitude that a lot of people on RU-vid do towards people who aren't trying to become some piano prodigy. Your content is very helpful.
Also worth mentioning is you have to consider the logistics of owning an acoustic piano. If you're at a point in your life where you're moving a lot, ( for school, job, or whatever, military,) you may not want to have to lug around a big acoustic piano. If your goal isn't to be a concert pianist and just want to entertain yourself, IMO a good quality digital piano will meet the needs of most people out there.
More interesting than this video is the comments. I know teachers who will not take a student if they don't have an acoustic piano. I am of the thinking that if one has a keyboard/clavinova with real sized keys that are weighted that will suffice. In this situation, it's important to have access to an acoustic piano. That being said, much of my piano practice has been on a keyboard. When I was in college 90% of my practicing was on a keyboard that didn't even have all 88 keys. This was easy to keep and use in the dorm room. Everything transferred perfectly for me when I used an acoustic piano. All this to say, play however and on whatever you can. It's most important to play.
donita murphy-sims I used to have a keyboard but now I practice on a KORG digital piano. I had a lot of problems about intensity: I was used to getting the same sound, no matter the strength I pushed the key with; On my digital piano, with acoustic-like keys, it turned up to be big of a problem.
As someone else mentioned, digital pianos have made substantial gains in both sound (sampling/modeling) and keyboard feel (escapement, let-off, etc), even compared with models from 5 years ago. Try a new Nord or Kawai (If you want to do both, try the Nord Grand, which has Kawai keys). No, they won't feel the same as your Steinway, but they are 5-10% of the price, and much easier to move.
Hi Josh, I took lessons about 40 years ago, Oh wow, I'm old. Last year I bought an Arturia Keylab 88 after watching many videos I thought it was the best for me. It comes with their Piano V software which is a virtual piano, no samples. It is amazing. Things are starting to come back after all this time. I'm 63 btw. I enjoyed you video very much. I found it after watching some Bach videos. I will be watching for more of you vids. Thank you.
I love how people talk like every person in the world can afford or even have space for an acoustic piano. Yes we would love to have an acoustic and have a big house in the middle of nowhere so we can play as loud as we want. But it's not how it is so thanks to digital piano tons of people have a chance to start practicing right away. Don't listen to "purists" enjoy your music
@classical baby all he's saying is not everyone has the money or the space for a Steinway. In fact, Most people don't. He's not wrong. Not to mention, not everyone has the luxury of being settled down. If you have to move a lot, (for school, military, work, ECT.), it's not very possible to lug a grand piano with you everytime you move.
Unless you expect some day to have people pay to listen to you play, just get the best piano you can reasonably afford. If it's a $150,000+ Steinway and you have the money, buy it. If it's a $150 cheapie, and that's the best you can do, buy that. If someone's not paying to listen to you, you only have to please yourself.
Jason Carr was between that model and the P115 and almost went with the P45 to save money, but remembered I paid $600 for my phone. If I was willing to pay that much for a phone, then the price for a piano should not be a big deal for me.
If you are close to a public university, you can go to the music building and practice in the practice rooms which should all have at least an older upright piano. Just go when its not busy and hop in a practice room. I would use these practice rooms while working towards a Math major and sometimes will stop by if I'm in the area nowadays.
Just bought a 645 for my son as he is now taking formal classes. This after we gave him a basic 100 usd Casio keyboard for Xmas and 2 months later was playing things like Fur Elise or Bohemian Rhapsody just by learning from RU-vid. He is super excited and I have to admit I am taking self taught lessons after he goes to sleep on it . Learning piano was always my dream as a child but my parents CV old never afford an acoustic piano or lessons for me. I am glad we have more affordable options and resources now.
That's good to hear, I'm seriously considering a CLP-645. Wood weighted keys, beautiful cabinetry, it seems like a piano that would do you good for a long time.
If you are concerned about your neighbours when practicing a lot of technique and exercises, the Yamaha N-Series is perfect. I myself have the N1 and the touch and resistance of the keys is like on a grand piano. Indeed inside it has the hammers lying down as it is in a grand piano. I have also a very good upright piano, but for playing scales and exercises I even prefer my digital one because it gives me more eveness through its resistance.
I know this video is about digital pianos but what I missed was comparison with uprights. Of course, a grand piano is a whole different story but when I was buying my Clavinova, I was thinking about getting a second-hand upright for a similar price (at least in the Czech Republic you can get a decent one). The advantage of an upright being that it's still the acoustic instrument so you have the contact with the strings so to speak and thus more control over the sound. Also the wooden keyboard feels more natural to the touch (yes, some Clavinovas have them too, but those are more expensive). The main disadvantage for me was that I still tend to move from time to time so the weight of the instrument is important. Also, uprights don't have escapement and most of them don't have the sostenuto pedal. All in all, if the weight and space was not such a big deal for me at the moment, I guess I would go for an upright.
Yes I also missed that part. But in my opinion, I would rather go with a digital piano than a upright in the same price range. Digital pianos want to simulate grand pianos, and I think it's clear that Grand pianos are always better than uprights. The new digital pianos make this really good. I have Heard a good upright Starts also at about 15.000$. So I would believe most uprights at about 3.000-5.000$ won't be quite good, whereas a digital piano in that price range has really good feeling and sounds amazing. Thought I have to admit, an upright will probably last longer than a digital piano. I consider it good when a digital one lasts 15 years or so.
Picked up a YDS-164 for a great price and it features their GH3 action for repetitive notes and a synthetic ivory feel. I'm extremely satisfied with the sound and touch from Yamaha.
I never would have gotten into piano if not for having a digital piano, even if I had access to an acoustic. The headphones provided me with absolute security that no one was listening to me play, which let me play as bad and painfully slow as I wanted. The first piece I ever learned was Clair de Lune, before I could even read sheet music, and I spent months sounding absolutely terrible to the point where the piece was unrecognizable. Only after I got comfortable with the keyboard would I have ever felt comfortable practicing on an acoustic.
Good presentation. I like it that he praises the Clavinova which proves he is not a musical/ piano snob, and also he is realistic about what students may encounter on their musical journey. I would just like to add that I draw the line at keyboards that do NOT have weighted keys - Casio comes to mind but there are others too. Some of these may be fine for playing non-piano keyboard parts, but if it is piano skills you are after ... run like hell!
I wanted to throw in a pitch for Kawai digital pianos. I've played as a (serious) hobbyist for 25+ years now but I've never had the opportunity to own my own acoustic -- mostly because I always lived in a small rented apartment without good sound isolation (and before that, dormitories), and with frequent moving it would cost a fortune to deal with moves. However, I've always had access to insanely good community pianos throughout my life -- for the past 15 years I've practiced on a Bosendorfer Imperial Grand, Steinway Ds, and lots of other fantastic grand pianos all within biking distance. But then Coronavirus hit, and I haven't had a community piano to practice on. Having played several digital pianos before I have to say that the Kawai action seriously impressed me, so I went in on a Kawai CA-48 so I can continue to practice at home during this time. Yes, of course, the *sound* isn't the same as being in front of an acoustic grand, of course*, but it does have very realistic hammer action and double escapement and is really enabling me to keep practicing technical pieces during this time. Kawai has done a really, really good job on the action. One of the main things you need to consider is that the most important thing is to have *something* to practice on without hesitation. You shouldn't not practice just because it's late at night, because it will bother your neighbors, because there is an epidemic, or because there are purists out there who own a million dollar home and have space for a grand without disturbing their neighbors and are hating on the idea of digital -- don't listen to them. Rather, the key to digital is to accept that the sound *will* be subpar, but as long as the action is realistic you will be able to learn pieces and improve technique, and a lot of higher end digitals solve all of these issues. For those in similar situations I would also strongly consider post-epidemic to look into community pianos that you may have access to (many public libraries, universities, and chapels have pianos, and some schools won't mind if you ask nicely!), and consider e.g. practicing 5-6 days a week at home on digital and 2 days a week on a community piano which is also a good balance. Back in high school I also used to often practice after school hours on the grand pianos at school, even though I had a digital at home. Another way I see it is that digital is a fraction of the cost of acoustic, so if you later have the financial means for an acoustic, at that point you probably won't mind eating the cost of the digital that you owned previously. * Side note: I find digital pianos to sound much more realistic with a good pair of headphones, and of course that's also well-aligned with the fact that you might want a digital piano precisely because you don't want to disturb your neighbors.
Josh--nice to hear your comments and hear that you're open-minded about keyboards. An observation: depending on the family's budget, and of course, the privacy in practicing factor, a good Yamaha (like a Clavinova) is often much easier for mom, dad, and big brother to deal with while little Susan is taking her first few years of lessons. Cheaper, quieter, and doesn't need tuning. I was a pianist and keyboardist in US Army and Air Force bands for 27 years and played on all sorts of gear. I have never owned a Steinway D (my dream race car, if you will), but I've played on quite a few of them. The funny thing is, and I know you know this, line up 10 Steinway Ds and even though they'll all be similar, the more you play them, the more little tiny differences you'll notice as time goes on during the practice session. The same is true of all the keyboard gear out there. Take 10 Rolands, 10 Yamahas, 10 Korgs, or whatever, and you'll notice the difference from keyboard to keyboard. And that's not even getting into the differences between brands, or the differences between weighted and non-weighted or quasi-weighted actions. Since I never lived in a place big enough to have a piano of my own (or could afford it), the issue was what to do? Well, after years of playing on all sorts of gear and pianos, including more than my fair share of burned-out barroom uprights (the out-of-tune kind with about 10 keys missing in the middle, LOL!), I developed a grab bag of techniques that I would play on each 'board or piano. It was basically a collection of things I'd learned over the years that showed the piano in different lights, different styles, different touches, registers, etc. Classical technique is one thing---and it's good to test a piano out using it. Jazz has it's own techniques that you don't find in classical. Ditto rock, funk, country, pop, etc. The whole trick is to run down as much stuff as I could before a show on that piano before the curtain rose. Usually it would take about an hour, kind of like taking a car out for a test drive on the city streets, then the smaller highways, and then the major highways and really let things rip. I played a lot of acoustic pianos in Japan when I was stationed there in the early 2000's. A lot of Steinway Ds and a lot of Yamaha Cs. Even three Bosendorfer Imperial 97-key grands. Those were a blast to play with all the extra range, but boy were they a LOT of work, LOL! Had fun but was tired after each of those concerts. Funny thing is, all the pianos played differently from each other, but my job was to get used to the way it played, and play on it as well as the lead alto player felt playing his own saxophone. Sometimes I'd get that full hour. Sometimes I'd only get about 10 minutes. And sometimes I learned how it would play on the fly in the first 2-3 tunes, LOL! That's life on the road. And if the piano had a few quirks I had to allow for that stuff too. As far as playing on beat up old uprights in bars, it's the same issue. Get used to the way it plays quickly and get your mind off of the piano and back onto the music. (Easier said than done, but you do what you have to.) Of course, there are some musics that I don't play on non-weighted keyboards, bebop being one of them. Blues licks? Sure. Rock? No problem. But without the return of the keys, even on your basic weighted keyboard, fast jazz is not really easy to do. But that's just me. Joey DeFrancesco does fine on the Hammond B-3, so it depends on the player. Now, if I were in your shoes, I'd use a good Yamaha--the new models are pretty good. Also, the the Roland RD 700 and newer models are, IMHO, the best sound, and especially pianistic touch on the market. The Roland V-Piano is GREAT. But...at about $7K and about 80 lbs, it's beyond my budget and back. Also, the thing's a beast and you need a truck or van to haul it in. And since I'm about 60 and retired, I don't see myself owning one. Bottom line? Unless you are going to be fortunate to be able to have "your piano" at the gig (or concert), get used to playing on different instruments. It's a skill that goes a long way. And of course, if your goal is to be a top-flight concert pianist, get a good grand to practice on, because you'll need to work on the extra something in terms of physicality and refined response that only a great concert grand can give you. And as always--practice fundamentals, practice fundamentals, and....practice fundamentals. Thanks for reading this really looooooong post. Good luck in the future. Respectfully, PMH
Man, you hit the nail on the head! Thank you for the advice as I am an adult beginner/intermediate learning on a Yamaha P-125. I plan on upgrading when the time/funds present themselves but for right now this is it.
- Peter - what a GREAT response ! - Thanks for sharing that! I'm not nearly up to the level of playing you seem to be, but I am both an organist and pianist and have had to learn to bring whatever skills are needed to the instrument at hand - something I had to figure out early in college when migrating between different instruments in the practice rooms, uprights and grands, a tracker organ - with 3 manuals coupled was a beast - and the auditorium organ with electro-pneumatic action with a near-1-second response time between the time the key was pressed and the sound is heard - you could easily be playing several notes ahead of what you're hearing - plus having to articulate for the reverb. - :-| But back to the immediate discussion - I have a Yamaha P-125 and am loving the versatility of being able to practice both piano (classical, and jazz/rock avec rhythm) and organ (manuals, at least). Thanks for sharing those suggestions and stating that so well - they should be a good help to many - cheers! :-)
My Kawai CN37 has harmonics effects like Josh demonstrates (holding one key pressing others etc), and the pedal is analogue, so it's not "on and off" you can actually do multiple levels, and the "dampers" make the proper sound as well. It has hammers mechanism and let-off.
"harmonics effects" it's called "sympathetic resonance", piano players like to have that in their digital pianos, then on non-digital pianos, those often talked about "swiss army knife" synthesizers that happen to have piano sounds (MX88, Juno-DS88, and Kross2 88), among many others, you can see people in comments sections of related demo videos asking about whether or not they have sympathetic resonance and whatever else you'd expect from a good digital piano (which those machines are not and often lack). So even with synths, there are some users with piano experience hoping for these effects and what not. "multiple levels" That's "half-damper capability", more common in good digital pianos and pricier synthesizers. The three I mentioned earlier have that, cheaper synths do not. Another one of those things I see people ask about not too rarely when they ask about the capabilities of MX88, etc.
I own a Yamaha N1, I agree with Josh, I think it's the best digital piano out there. It's marketed as a hybrid, it has the key/hammer mechanism, but instead of having the hammer hit a string, it has an optical trigger. Samples sounds are great, really sounds and feels like an true Yamaha piano.
I was impressed instead by the Casio GP 510. Have you ever played? It's not a real hybrid, but has real hammers and the keys are of the Same material and length of the Bechstein acoustic grand pianos. It's much better and authentic than I thought before playing it
I have really only played on a digital yamaha keyboard, and in my experience, there is some definitely a noticeably difference when you first transition over. For example, I could play Maple Leaf Rag on keyboard fast in full without needing a break or anything. When I first tried to play it on a real piano, not only could I not play it as quick, I couldn't play for nearly as long. It literally felt like a workout for my forearms. Now I still mostly practice on a keyboard, but play on a real piano at least once a week. Doing that, I don't really have any trouble with playing fast or for long periods any more. However, I obviously can do both better on a keyboard, as I'd imagine anyone would. So to recap, you don't need to always play on a real piano, just with enough frequency that you can still play what you want without trouble.
Hi Josh, I've just found you on RU-vid and I'm loving to see your videos. Your comments and tips are amazing. Thank you so much for being there, and I'll certainly try to see anything you post. Cheers from Brazil.
I have done countless hours of work on my Roland electric piano. It is great to be able to reduce the volume when working on loud passages to build up endurance. And one can practice in the middle of the night, using headphones, if one is so inclined. It saves a fortune in tuning, voicing, and regulating my acoustic instrument. Better still, if I am working on Bach I can switch it to harpsichord, and try playing using different tuning temperaments. And, surprisingly, I can make a greater variety of tonal colour on the electric instrument - and my acoustic piano is only ten years old, in perfect condition, and from a great manufacturer.
I had to buy an electric piano since I moved to a different city to study (not music though), and I had to compromise and buy a Roland FP-30. For now, I really like it, for sure it is the cheapest thing you can buy and still have a fairly realistic touch and sound
I bought it for 500 € used (but still with a bit of warranty left), which was a good deal. If you consider buying one, pay attention if the stand and the pedal unit are included! These are two seperately sold items. Mine came with a stand but without the better pedals, so I am stuck with the cheap standard pedal. Otherwise, a great piano if you ask me.
When I was young (about 10 years old no lessons) I discovered harmonics on my own, I just enjoyed holding down a bass chord with my left and striking a key with my right. It wasn't music as some might call it I suppose, I just enjoyed resting the side of my head on the wood frame. I mean, I didn't need 'therapy' back then or anything, but it was nice just listening to the decay.
Yay!! Josh, you're the Man!! A while back, I unwittingly got into a thing with a somewhat more purist classical piano teacher on RU-vid, when I said pretty much the same things you've said here. She was giving advice to parents of little kids just starting out, and advised them to pay top dollar for a grand piano if they could swing it, and to only send their kids to a well-known piano teacher whose students have done well in competitions. As an alternative, she advocated buying a cheap spinet over any sort of digital piano because the latter is less "real". I pointed out that the music journey takes us all to different places, and that of all the kids who start out, only some will wind up on the virtuoso track, needing the extra oomph a high-end grand provides, and that good quality digital pianos are a wonderful option for kids starting out learning piano, and for people like me, for whom space, cost, and sound volume are issues. Digital pianos are WAY better than cheap spinets for learning good playing habits, and require a much smaller adjustment to playing on grands than the adjustment from playing on a spinet. I think as they continue to improve, music teachers and schools are making increasing use of them. You've brought a great real-world playing perspective to this ongoing discussion!!
Touch is the most important aspect. You can trigger sample libraries that will make almost every digital piano sound like plastic. Try to get the most basic features. All you need is a midi out and perhaps a headphone out if you need practice and don't have a computer handy.
Agreed, a good keyboard paired with sample libraries (or software like Pianoteq) is the way to go. That way you can have near unlimited sound possibilities without having to buy new keyboards. Plus, if you're hooked up to a PC you can record the midi notes to analyze your playing.
@@legitcrazydope the digital piano he was refering to was the yamaha n2 it has an msrp of 15'000 dollars. Which is more expensive than cheep acoustic pianos. You should have checked the prices before commenting.
He has a link on the description for the Yamaha keyboard. It’s not the n series (the nicest keyboard his student bought) but it sells for $2000 on Amazon. I would say a keyboard between $1500-$2000 is a great investment if you want to start learning.
@@Madtica True, I commented when I was half way through the video, it is true that you can find good keyboards for 2000 I did my first six years of learning the piano on a keyboard worth 500€.
I picked up a old piano, fixed it up (all but the very first and very last key, the action was too broken), tuned it myself. I love it!!! Best £30 I've ever spent!!!!!
There's one thing a lot of videos like these tend to leave out. If you never intend to play an acoustic piano, or have no reason to due to the nature of the music you play or your kind of performances, then the question answers itself. Yes. Not only is it 'okay', it's the only rational thing to do. Always practice the instrument you will spend the most time performing on.
You can connect the nord to a Dolby theatre surround sound system and the sound is amazing you can adjust the ambience in settings and do so much with it. I also have a bechstein grand and a Yamaha U3
I've been playing for about 7 years, and I actually started out with an acoustic grand. Recently, we moved into a smaller house without room for a grand, so we had to sell it. After trying out a bunch of uprights, I found that a lot of digital uprights actually had much better action and a much better feel than acoustics at the same price. Right now, I have a Keawai CA-78, and I couldn't be happier. It feels just like a real grand piano, it has plus recording capabilities. I definitely don't think it has had a negative effect on my technique.
I am the happy owner of a Kawai Novus NV 10 and I’ve never been happier in my pianist life. Playing on a REAL mechanic keyboard on a digital system makes you play technically the same way whether 5 pm or 5 am, which is not the case with silent acoustic, where the touch is modified in silent mode.
I have a newer model Roland RD-2000. The biggest thing for me was that it has the "double escapement" in the action and the keys have a balanced wood core like my Yamaha C2 grand. I think getting the most accurate grand action is crucial. It's about $2500.
I'm 53. In India. Started learning piano in last couple of years and have a weighted key entry level digital piano. People of my profile - non american, living in a non western influenced countries, in smaller dwellings, with lesser income profile - they do come and watch these videos to learn. And this one is hell of depressing. Because I will never ever be in a position to buy an acoustic piano - space and economic tradeoff (beginner and min $2500 investment). Thankfully, I know a very good jazz pianist (rare in India) who told me to ignore this and to play on . If I get better, I might upgrade to something which is around $1500 but I don't see that happening in next 7 years.
Please do not be depressed - Josh is speaking to a very high level of artistry where these details do matter. But you can spend hundreds of hours and learn hundreds of pieces very well on a reasonable digital instrument with weighted keys. I have a Yamaha P125 and it does quite well for practice and learning. If you understand how to use the digital instrument properly, then when you want to perform a piece well on a good acoustic grand it does not take very long to transfer the learned piece to the acoustic instrument. Keep practicing and enjoy learning. Then when you have the opportunity to play on a fine acoustic instrument - you will be well prepared to enjoy it! In fact, you may want to look for an opportunity in a school or church or music store where they will allow you to play on an acoustic instrument so you will know better how to practice for it. :-)
I went through the beginning to ABRSM grade 8 without ever owning a real piano. That said, I did practice on a grand piano whenever I could find one. The muscle memory is generally the same, and the strength required to play a key varies from piano to piano (even between the real wooden ones) Your skill level will depend on your actual ability to play rather than the piano you have been practicing on. However, if you are an aspiring professional piano player you would most likely need to practice on a large grand piano, in a sound proof room, etc. Most just rent one out for a few hours at a time. Still I don’t see the point of throwing dozens of Gs into buying a big piano for home, unless it’s to show off. Just my opinion
For me, there are two main problems when it comes to cheap digital pianos: playing pianissimo and improving your pedaling technique. Most of them doesnt even comes with weighted, full-sized pedals and the keys are often too "bouncing" due to low quality plastic. But the point is: you will struggle with that too even if you own a medium-quality upright piano, cause they are not the same as a grand, they have heavier, slower keys with no escapement for pps and ppps, the pedals arent exactly the same and stuff... while on a high-end digital you can have a much better grand piano experience without spending $40.000,00 in one. I honestly think its better buying a Casio Grand Hybrid GP-510 with C. Bechstein keys than a new upright in the same $6.000,00 price range. Maybe not better than a top-brand reconditioned or in good shape old upright, but its more a matter of taste than anything else for me. Most people doesnt need(and cant afford) a Steinway grand to improve, simply because they are not professional pianists and just wanna have fun with a satisfactory piano to play.
My sister and I took piano lessons. At home we practiced on paper keys. We would practice on a neighbor's piano every once in a while. We passed the first 3 years. We quit because I didn't like the teacher and was upset my parents didn't buy a piano. I didn't understand how expensive they are. But I bet I could have gotten a couple more years out of those paper keys.
Great varticle, Josh. What you said about digital pianos makes a lot of sense. As my main instrument at home, I have one of the higher spec Kawai digitals which is only a couple of years old. The action, although pretty good for a digital, is rather sluggish compared with the action of a good accoustic. It's possible that my technique for repeated notes is far from ideal, but I manage them with far more success on a grand paino than on my Kawai. So, the assertion that a pianist needs to practice on a grand piano to reach the highest levels of technical proficiency makes a great deal of sense. Additionally, the sound engine doesn't get much better than the one inside my Kawai, but having been away from acoustic pianos for a while, I sat down to play an old Kemble upright, nothing fancy. I was pleasently surprised at how nice it was to play, and at how much more "soul" it had compared with my Kawai digital. Thanks for putting this information together. P.s.: Several months ago you mentioned that you like to weight-train. I have weight-trained for years, and it can be very apparent to me that tension and fatigued musicles, especially of the hands and forearms due to repeated and sustained gripping of heavy items, does have a significant inhibitory effect on my playing. I was wondering, what are your views on being / becoming a serious pianist whilst continuing to undertake weight-training?
Unless there's a house piano I think most gigging musicians use digital, last summer I set up the main stage of a decent size festival where the white baby grand on stage was actually an imitation exterior with a digital piano inside 😎 It was good enough for Jools Holland, Pixie lot and the Specials etc.. If anything it's probably a good idea to play on a range of keys so everything feels familiar and you dont perform badly. Also it depends on the type of music and audience your playing to, most people don't care! 😂
Definitely agreed with you. Digitals have gotten so much better than they used to be. I practice on my Roland all the time. I would love a Nord as well. Ocean Etude actually comes out better on my digital than my acoustic grand, which is a good piano, but a bit weak on the bass because it's a home, not a concert grand.
Of COURSE it is perfectly ok to practice on a digital piano. Nearly all of them have very well made weighted keys. They also have the advantage of permanently being in tune. There is nothing worse than a cheap or clapped out "real" piano that needs tuning every five minutes and has a raft of duff notes. Not only that, most digital pianos have facilities whereby you can accelerate learning and practice by separating and recording parts, have a built in metronome, record your performance and review it, and there are typically alternative tones, reverb, decent speakers, and most even mid level digital pianos have samples that almost match a "real" piano costing between $30,000 and $150,000. In short, digital pianos have revolutionised the practice of music. Real (decent) pianos are now for the very rich. They have gone up in price exponentially.
Depends on what you want out of piano that I think a lot of people overlook and that's: What do you want to get out of the piano? If you want to do classical music and perform professionally, then you do need a better piano. If you want to play jazz/rock/pop music, get whatever you want.
Aside from the fact a lot of people cannot afford a grand piano very few have room for one. Even uprights take a considerable amount more room than a digital one. On top of that one should consider the cost or moving an acoustic piano and the maintenance cost with regular tuning being required along with repairs and maintenance as well as consideration regarding heat and humidity control.
Now, Today, Beginning 2020 I sense 4 classes of "weighted keyboards" 1. 600 $or€ - Beginner - like Roland FP-30, Yamaha P125, Casio PX-S1000 2. 1000 $or€ - Intermediate - like Kawai CN-series 3. 1800 $or€ - Advanced - like Kawai CA48 up 4. 2000 or above = Professional, possibly acoustic In the Professional category it really depends what you need. Advantages digital pianos have over acoustic instruments: - portability - price - different instrument sounds - volume control / headphone usage Advantages acoustic pianos have over their digital counterparts: - sound quality - keyboard action What it all boils down to: More people have access to quality instruments hat fit their needs - today More people are able to learn piano on quality instruments - today it is like arguing Mozart was 'better' than Beethoven, a mindset that comes from the chart placements of popular music based on sales. Dont adapt that thinking when it comes to art - it does not get you anywhere
Spot on and I totally agree! I am a blues piano player and that music has a totally different feel and touch than classical and even jazz. I believe the music you play will decide what instrument you should pick in general terms. It's like a guitar player picks whatever guitar, pedals and amps suitable for the music he/she plays. I will mostly prefer a good acoustic, but sometimes it's very difficult to mic it up on stage as you might risk acoustic bleeding in between other instruments creating feedback issues unless you have really good microphones fit for purpose. But having that said, I have even recorded low-down blues on a Nord Piano and no one can really tell the difference on the record :-) Nord is the only one having samples with a special "character" which to me sounds much more authentic for the music I play. The only downside with Nord is the unnessary knobs and looks. Some digital pianos still sounds either too digital or too "clean" for my music, but usually good for other types of music like classical, pop and jazz as examples. But if you are looking for a really good digital piano for practising at home, there is nothing comparable to Kawai's keyboard action which is built up almost like a real grand piano. I have the Kawai CS8 at home (same action as CS11) since I cannot disturb neighbours and my family too much. I would really recommend it to anyone. The keyboard action is just miles ahead of Yamaha and Roland models and it's very very close to a real grand piano. My playing and techique has greatly improved since I bought it and it even looks almost like an acoustic piano! I am so happy there are vast improvements amongst the digital pianos too. Here's a link to Kawai's Hammer action on the CS8/11: kawaius.com/technology/wooden-key-actions/. I think they are also using it for their CA models which are a bit less expensive.
A good digital piano with a nice action will work for anyone/everyone to a point. Now if you’re a professional trying to play at a very high level or you want to develop your technique to the highest degree, then the difference between a digital and real piano is real. But for most people a good digital will serve them well for their musical lives. Also for Yamaha I’d suggest the p-255. It’s the most affordable of their keyboards with their ‘higher’ quality GH action (same as the clavinova). It’s served me well.
I spent $800 on a digital piano with weighted keys... i see absolutely no difference and do 90% of my practicing on it, and the technique translates to acoustic very nicely
I have a Yamaha N1. I know I m never going to be a concert pianist, so this is pretty much all I ever will need. Someday, I'd like an acoustic baby grand, but if I don't get it, I will live.
Well, I learn now for two weeks and decided for a Roland FP-10 (I'm an adult and only want to play a bit for myself, I don't have so much room and be able to use a headphone is really appreciated, so I looked for something, that fulfills my needs here, while not wasting to much money (Who knows, if I'm still interested in some months)). And I think, the Roland FP-10 was not the worst choice for a "cheap" (around 400€) digital piano. The weighted keys simulate not only those middle point, you showed in the beginning, but also, that the bass keys on the left are a bit heavier, than that on the right. And it also simulates those harmonics, you showed. Of course, it has it disadvantages, so it supports only the sustain pedal, and while the simulation of the hammer mechanic sure isn't bad, it's still simulated. And while it has speakers, those are pretty weak (but enough to play at home and that's all I wanted). Also, I think, you don't find many digital pianos with a better sound in this price range, but there are better sounding digital pianos for sure, in higher price ranges.
I got the Roland fp30 last week as my first piano. It feels very quality and nice. The escapement is pretty awesome as well. I feel like you could probably transfer from the fp10, fp30, and so on to an acoustic without much issue.
I have just upgraded my Yamaha CVP705 to the Yanaha CVP809. It has a linear graded grandtouch keyboard with counterweights. The touch is very similar to a acoustic grand. In addition it has a GP response damper pedal that gives a similar response to a grand piano. With VRM resonance and spruce speakers it sounds very similar to an acoustic grand. In addition you have all the voices and styles from the Genos keyboard. If you do not needs the features of the Genos the Yamaha CLP785 will give you the same piano features.
Kawai has some with excellent and accurate grand piano actions (long wooden keys, escapement, let off, etc.) for ~$2,000, like the CA67/97 or the CA17. They feel better than most uprights I've tried, including mine. I think they're a great solution and I plan on buying one.
I have Kawai VPC1, which is a superb keyboard, but it's just a MIDI controller -- you have to bring your own sounds. I use primarily the Synthogy Ivory II virtual piano library on Windows for the output and I really enjoy it. I had a Steinway L before it and was sad to have to let it go, but frankly, I like the VPC1 as much and I play it more than I did the Steinway.
I am an adult beginner doing grade 5 this year. Yes I know that sounds strange. Anyway i have a Technics digital (more electric!) piano from 1982 which i bought second hand for 100 euro and was very lucky to get it. My teacher sees no obstacle in using a digital piano and while i would love an acoustic, i agree with him, not having an accoustic should not stop someone certainly not because of technique etc. I am light years from Josh of course but for beginner's i believe this is true. The Technics by the way is amazing even still and i will never part with it.
Josh, have you ever heard of Pianoteq? Its a program that creates a piano's sound by means of physical modeling. There's no recorded samples. It runs on a computer with the keyboard connected to the computer via midi- or usb-cable. All keyboards I've played on before didn't "feel" like a real acoustic piano. But with Pianoteq it came pretty close to feeling and sounding like a real grand piano (for me at least).
Agreed. Pianoteq is the the most organic of all the digital piano sounds I've used. It gives the most 'realistic' playing experience as long as you're using a decent quality keyboard to play with. Even nice digital pianos like Josh has only have maybe 10 or so velocity samples per key. Pianoteq has much finer control over the velocity. Plus the most realistic resonance and pedaling, imo.
The even-ness of the keys in an electric keyboard can compensate for the lack of an authentic feel. I once practised on a friends keyboard (with weighted keys) and after that was able to play better on my regular acoustic piano. The effect did not last long, however. l'm thinking one should do both; get your hands accustomed to different pianos and keyboards and learn to adapt. And avoid keyboards with springy keys
i would not recommend anyone to buy a grand or anything like that as a new piano player, 1 because you don't know how to use more then 2 octaves the next 2-4 months, and that is if your a fast learner. 2nd what's the point of buying a piano if there is a chance you will abandon it, play for 2 or more years and see, kind of suck if you use a lot on a piano and it ends up dusting the place down. i did well with a 66 key in the beginning, because i didn't need anything bigger, i was not able to use more then 66 key in a song i knew. later i got an 88 key, and that was great, there is not really a need for a piano at that point, but i found a use for repeated keys and they are just fun to use, and now i would like a "real" piano, you can do 3pl notes, but not too fast. if you try to get a feel for most technics, i would say you can use a digital for 6 years before there is a need for a grand or upright
munital1 yeah. As much as I see where the guy in the video comes from I think (as a noob) that I will start with a simple Yamaha ez 220 if I made room in my apartment. Since I don't have room for a acoustic piano
Yeah, musicians like to be as effective practicing as they can, but they don't practice as much as they could, which would be the best option for you to build strenght and mental resistance...
yeah i did.. he makes a lot of great recommendations and as a pianist of 20+ years I absolutely understand why and agree with him for the most part; but for the average Joe getting into playing the keys I stand firm on grab what ever you can and play the hell out of it.. same with strings and drums... as you get better you will develop your own nuances and be willing to invest.
The best and most legendary jazz piano instructor in Seattle had for years (for reasons he never revealed to anyone I knew)used an electronic piano to teach lessons on.
We're on the same page and it's great to see a teacher not saying you can only learn on a real piano. There is a lot of crap out there, though... So students need help selecting a good digital piano, and it's important to select a good keybed. I'd stay away from MAudios and other brands that are not that "connected" to pianos, but Roland, Korg, Yamaha and even Casio are doing such amazing keybeds for smaller and smaller prices. For me the best are the yamahas who are quite good keybeds all over their model setup, starting with the P Series. The p Series, have great beds (even the p45 start of the line) all over the board. Anyway, here are some thoughts when going for a digital: - Only Weighted keyboards (stay away from semi-weighted because they are too light compared to a real piano). - Test the action for fast passages as Josh did on the video (test with multiple fingers over the same key) - Go for the higher polyphony your budget can buy (polyphony is important because of pedalling. In Older pianos, with 32 or less polyphony amount, you can hear the sustained notes disappear. Polyphony helps this because the notes don't have to "dissapear". I'd say a good start would be 64, but 128 is better because some patches use more than one sample for the same sound. - Try to go for the reference brands: Yamaha, Roland, Korg and most recently Casios. And of course Nord built it's brand on Clavia, wich at some point were also great Pianos. Studio Logic also has good keyboards, but again, stay away from "semi-weighted". Disclosure, i'm not a teacher, but i play for more more than 25 years, and know my keyboards... :)
In my experience pianos all feel so different anyway, but a poor digital piano is really awful in that it doesn't feel close to most high quality pianos, digital or not. I've practiced lots and lots on a digital piano, but it has very good graded hammer action keys. I think a digital piano is really bad if it isn't at least GHS (graded hammer standard. I use a Yamaha YDP-123 (is similar to yours, really) and it really isn't too far off from the real grand pianos I've played on, and all the acoustic pianos I've played have a different feel to them anyway, so I don't think it's too big a deal. Some feel heavier, some feel lighter, some feel stickier, etc. I think, when you want to perform, you should be practicing on the piano as close to the one you want to perform on, but for general practice, I don't think it's too big a deal. I don't think you can go wrong with the higher end Yamaha pianos with good, weighted hammer action. The imperial Bösendorfer.. My dream piano personally. Steinways I find too... I'd say "bright" for my preferences. They're really beautiful, but the ones I've played on felt _too_ crisp and clean to me if that makes sense.
WormyLeWorm I have a YDP-103 Love it, but it doesn’t sound anything like a $15k Yamaha grand I played on. I agree though. Even the higher end pianos can sound kinda terrible, but some of them also have such beautiful sound that would kill my piano any day
I have owned both , Mostly Hi end digital. I personally prefer digital by faaaar . The resonance , or whatever the technical term is that by striking one string will cause other strings to vibrate on an acoustic piano drives me crazy now . The notes just sound cleaner or clearer . I just cannot go back to an acoustic piano . I gig with a Yamaha P515 with a Bose S1 Pro auxiliary speaker and at home a Yamaha CLP 685 Clavinova . My personal opinion , although will be considered worthless to many is Go with Digital and stop at Yamaha .
There are some differences between an upright and a grand piano: uprights have slower and heavier keys, and they lack scapement feature for better pp and ppp playing. Also, the middle pedal works different and pedal position is slighty different next to a grand. You dont need a grand to be a high level player, but you probably need one to be a concertist, since you will be playing only grand pianos in your concerts.
is it OK to practice on a digital piano? My neighbours: YESSSS USE HEADPHONES AS WELL PLEASE :) Me: :( My audience: :( But for real: I'd always recommend to go with a digital one as a beginner with weighted, hammer-action keys (88keys). Because if you start out with a very expensive acoustic one and after a while you think.... hmm maybe piano isn't going to be my thing for the long term, then you're screwed because what are you going to do with the big piano in the house? Let it catch dust or have it just for the show? Nowadays these digital piano's are really doing a great job when it comes down to the technical aspects of simulating realism with weighted keys, hammer action, sound samples, sensitivity of touch and reverbs, and so many more things they've managed to recreate for the pianists. Just go to the very first music store with a pair of headphones and play it out, you'll be astonished by how nice it sounds and plays. Ofcourse acoustic will give you the REAL experience, no doubt about that because after playing digital for a couple years, I'm still missing that magical experience of an acoustic one but the most important thing is to just practice and keep doing it because unlike cycling, you can slightly lose the technique of playing the piano when not playing for a long time.
I've recently purchased a Casio celviano grand Hybrid GP400 it goes for around $5000 aud and I think it's fantastic for any people out there like me that don't have room to put an acoustic piano ( couldn't bring one upstairs due to stairs being unstable) it's made using a Bechstein key bed with real wooden keys and hammers that hit sensors instead of strings and sounds phenomenal it's great to be able to hook it up to a computer to record/ do midi things as well as use headphones and feels fantastic I'd say it's only slightly behind a Yamaha avant grand N1.
Wojciech Celejowski I have GP300 and I like the touch much more than a typical upright. That being said I'm really looking forward for Kawai Novus Nv10
I've been a singer, pianist and musician for 27 years. I taught myself to play keyboard when I was about 10 years old but then moved more to piano. It really helped my finger strength and dexterity. I found that playing keyboard kinda promoted poor fingering technique to be honest. I now use a ROLAND FP-30 and it's great!
How is that even a question ? I mean, that's pretty much the same as asking: "Is it okay to eat food from the supermarket, or should you only eat food from the greatest restaurants ?". You wouldn't stop yourself from eating average food just because there is better food out there (though you can't afford it), because you would die if you did, right ? Acoustic pianos are great and all, but they are expensive: there are some that cost as much as a house ! And they take a lot of space, too. So ideally you live in a big house/apartment. Basically, for the most expensive ones you need to be able to afford 2 houses, which most people can't. This sounds way too extreme for people who just want to play piano as a hobby, and not to have a career as a pianist.
Well I dont think that he is only talking to people that want to play piano as hobby. Why do you think he is talking to you? I am playing piano professionally and like to hear what other pianists have to say. It is a very good question and I completely agree that acoustic pianos are always the best if you can afford a decent upright, and if you cant bear with want you have to until you can. You dont need a lot a of money to buy a decent piano if you are thinking of playing professionaly in the future. As for those who just do it for fun you can play on anything as long as it makes you happy.
@@misschocoholic82 I know he is speaking to quite a broad audience, not only amateurs. The thing is, an acoustic piano is generally better, whether we talk about the sound or the feel, and I think we pretty much all agree on this. What bothers me is that many people believe that it is better not to practice at all than to practice on a digital piano. Even as a hobby. And I had some arguments because of that and it kind of got on my nerves, but I decided to be open-minded and to do some research and listen to opinions more reliable than mine on the subject. But it still seems pretty obvious to me that not practicing at all is way more harmful to your technique than playing on a decent digital piano...
I get your point, but you can buy used pianos or very solid new ones for 3grand (like the Kawai K15) and they sound better, then any electronic piano (a solid epiano isnt that much cheaper). You dont need a bösendorfer grand piano for 140 grand, but an epiano will never feel quite right and they loose their value extremly fast. Also you have to consider, if you by a piano and take good care of it, it will last a 30-1000years.
@@hansn.433 Basically all you said is true: there are digital pianos that cost around 2000 or even 3000 bucks (I'm thinking about the Nord Stage ones). And yes, if I have that much money available for the purchase of a piano, I would go for a "true" piano without hesitation. The thing is, it all depends on your needs and budget. 3000$ is waaaay cheaper than 140000, for sure, but for most people, it's still a lot of money and even if you can afford it you need to think twice before spending that much.
@@Louzzmi There's also the matter of performing, for most people transporting a real acoustic is impossible, this is what the Nord is really for. Hence not having in built speakers, it's designed to go into a PA or sound system at venues.
Josh, your comments were fair and balanced. I have the Roland V-Piano (V for virtual) and I find the touch very satisfying. The dynamic range is wonderful, and over-all the piano suits my level of playing, and I can advance much more on it; it is not holding me back. The sounds are programmable in many interesting ways. It is strictly a piano and there are no internal speakers, but it sounds great through decent headphones. Would I love a big Steinway or Fazioli? Sure-- but not in this lifetime. In the meantime I'm happy to keep loving my Roland V-Piano.
I own a P-series Yamaha with graded hammer action and have been using it for years. The local college has baby grands and the difference in sound regarding brilliance and acoustics is noticeable at the college, but the action in my Yamaha honestly feels about the same.
Of course it is OK to practice on a digital piano. You practice on what you can afford. Besides, the human body is an incredible instrument capable of most minute adaptations. Digital pianos are here to stay, alongside the magnificent analog pianos. Eventually even the best mechanical action of a grand piano will be duplicated such as to be nearly indistinguishable form one another. I can easily foresee the day when, a Rachmaninoff piano concertos are being played on a digital piano that will have a built in choice of almost any digitized great piano sounds to chose from for a particular concert: Steinway to Bosendorfer and many other excellent concert grands such as Kawai, Yamaha, Fazioli etc. etc. As I think of the great masters of the past from Bach, and many, many others who followed, they would be amazed and delighted and wished they had such tools at their disposal. Practice on whatever instrument you can get your hands on, besides, it is like weightlifting for the brain. And... who does not want a strong brain?
