Original video • STOP BLAMING THE TIME ... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Channel: / @farfa VOD Channel: / @farfa-vods Twitch: / farfa
honestly farfa has a really good point at the beginning. i think a lot of people started the video, didnt see mbt immediately say time rules were bad, and went to complain in the comments, maybe didnt even keep watching
I think MBT's take is exactly why it is worse to have time rules remain the same. It does indeed involve a lot of strategy to know when you should play around time, and the whole argument isn't necessarily wrong if you value that kind of gameplay. The problem arises when it is taking away from players attempting to break through a difficult board and having a good game where they can come back after navigating through tough negates or other situations in favor of having them play for time. It basically boils down to "would you rather have the players be more skilled at yugioh itself, or more skilled at tournament play in general." Both are fine, but I think a majority would prefer to watch good YGO players (obviously not insinuating a worlds player is bad in the first place.)
"Unsportsman like" is the term I think of. Its not ideal that these time rules have lead to optimal strategies which seems very much against the spirit of Yugioh. >Stalling out just slow enough to edge out a win but not get a judge called on you for slow playing. >Using minour burn/heal cards to win by technicality. >Instantly scooping game 2 on cost-benefit analysis of determining percentage win chance against time saved on guarenteeing game 3. >Not playing perfectly fine decks like Labyrnth because while they're winning on turn 7, they losing on turn 2, which means they lose in time. We all know Yugioh isn't like how it is in the anime. You don't win with heart of the cards or power of friendship. You win by deckbuilding & competent strategy - a little luck, too. Time Rules are strictly against that thesis. Its pretty much legalised cheating, in a way.
@@pickyphysicsstudent201It seems unsportmanlike until you ask players who have played the game for more than 3-5 years. This type of toxic behaviour has always been apart of yugioh in minor capacities, it's just never been viable, common enough, or allowed to fully flourish. That's what modern time rules enable. People will try to scam wins and they don't care about the trivial honour system player think exists. It manifests in different ways whether that be scamming for time, Scamming with Puppet lock, or and iconic example on this channel itself with MasterDuel is scamming wins with Numeron OTK. Players in even a mildly competitive setting will play scummy as reasonably possible.
@@UncleJrueForTue There's a difference between the meta being cutthroat and the rules allowing players to stab eachother. Floodgates and "Nightmare Lock"-esk plays are pretty busted. That's all within the game while time rules are much more "meta-gaming" it. Its the difference between figuring out what's going to happen next in a story based on the character motives & plot threads so far compared figuring it out based on unsubtle foreshadow. "Just wait till my loving wife & kids hears about this. I think I'll go down this dark alleyway because I have so much to live for."
@@pickyphysicsstudent201 As i said in the video itself, i think his tips are generally helpful but its like watching how to drive a car were a wheel fell off. Informative but we should not really get to that point...
Ok guys, but with all due respect. How are you not prepared for time at this point. It's a little ridiculous to not have a well thought out plan when entering a tournament. - Joseph Kotton
Joseph is making fair points. Time Rules suck *but* if you want to win tournaments you should build some strategy to deal with them. Same way we think about sidedecking in terms of: what handtraps you want, what the meta is, plugging the holes in your deck for certain matchups, what engines you're willing to side out, etc we should consider these things.
If time rules is a problem why not straight use the 3vs3 shared ban its use exactly the same system as master duel world 3vs3 except each player only given once duel, effectively cut the time to half and prevent players using multiple op engines at once its treat 3 players as 1. There is a solution for this time rules that tcg players tend to ignore for some reason, in fact the ocg banlist currently are more pushing towards this format because now semi limit and limit hurt more in 3vs3 shared ban format.
@@r3zaful That's pretty confusing. I think people want single player best of 3. Not some weird multi-deck single shared banlist format. If I had to pick one change to fix Time Rules, it would be after time ends, the game ends at the end of the *next* turn. This way the other player always gets a turn. No longer would you have to go second in game 3 and pray that you're opponent didn't open means to burn you with Gagaga Cowboy or that you opened Fire Cracker. Both players get a turn. No matter what you can play the game and have a chance. It would also, in theory, create a Hot Potato scenario of players playing fast, making short quick combos to pass turn, so that when time is called they get the last turn. This is better than doing 80 step combos to stall out and play jjuussstttt slow enough to eat up the time so they win.
@@pickyphysicsstudent201yugioh combos gets too long and long combo deck like snake eyes arent going anywhere, infact konami will print more of these type of deck that might crippled already flawled end of match procedure.
i was gonna say just use the master duel time rules like chess. where you have to physically hit the button. that way things like cowboy is not even possible. and these strategies are cheese anyways, just win for real.
Everyone says MBT has infected other yugitubers... but this video shows MBT has been infected himself! And by none other than Farfa! Oh, how keys have jingles!
The time rules are what they are. But, like, maybe Konami should consider making it so the late stages of worlds are not subjected to them. The big games everyone is watching going to time is such a bad look. They can still enforce slow play infractions, but spectators want to see an entire game play out. The rules for Top 8 at worlds should maybe not be the same as the rules for other tournaments. The watchability and hype of such a big tournament is genuinely something that can and should be factored into the rules.
The Worlds format is already different from other events, so it makes sense to adjust the time rules as well. They were designed for making 700+ player events run more smoothly, but they don't belong in such a curated event. It is important that the players are not forced to play out the games, though. Strategic concession to conceal information is an important part of side decking skills.
Thing is, his example wasn’t about scooping in game 2. In the Labyranth v Snake-Eyes match, the guy played out game 2 to force time in game 3. The point isn’t to scoop game 2; it’s play game two in the way that will benefit game 3 most.
Yeah Farfa got it in his head so much that he thought the SE player lost cuz he didn't scoop g2. No, he won the whole match because he didn't scoop g2, which was MBT's point that he played around the quirks of the time rules
The origin of all this is one day on stream they said it and it stuck. Gage shitting is cause he use to say he was going to shit all the time in progression.
If I got the worlds example right, it just underlines why the time rules are inherently toxic, SE leads 1 0 and Lab has the control over game 2 - but the SE player """stales""" the game out by not surrendering, still ends up losing but eats away at the time, so that for the last game time rules will matter and since his deck is favored for that he its good for him, since he goes from a game 3 thats idk 50 50 - to 80 20 chances of winning. He obviously didnt cheat or anything, but thats just "abusing" the rules in your favor....
The issue with time rules is once it goes late in the round it suddenly turns into "game 2". We're no longer playing to break boards entirely or to actually "win the game". We're playing around seemingly pointless interactions that somewhat progress the gamestate (to avoid slowplay warnings) so that we can "waste" time and eventually make worthless garbage like Agave Dragon or whatever funny card of the format. Even using another example, you are "incentivized" to completely waste your time playing out a basically unwinnable gamestate in game 1 or 2 to suddenly make game 3 reliant on time. If you scooped game 1 the second the writing was on the wall you would have 15 minutes in game 3 as opposed to now 5. Oh, also some cards/decks are just unplayable going into time. GP PUNK being the most notorious example, but even decks like say Purrely can't even activate My Friend Purrely in game 3 if there is any risk of going into time because you just lose the game on the spot for paying 500.
I actually have applied some similar principles before during a Regional Flight. Round 3 I was up against Gold Pride Punk. Game 1 He opens full combo and I have no handtraps or board breakers, but since he's on GP Punk I make the decision to play it out to time since the deck struggles in the Game 3 scenario. I'm able to break most of his board but the Psychic End Punisher was too much and I was out of gas, however I achieved my primary goal of eating into the clock so much. Game 2 I got first and do full Swordsoul Combo and prevent him from playing, and going into Game 3 we're nearly at time. Game 3 he goes first and full combos, passes back to me and hit me with Dogwood, but time got called right as my main phased started. Another time during a Tear mirror I had a person let Game 1 go for like 40 minutes even if there was no way they could bring it back and in Game 2 his Turn 1 he tried to enter the battle phase because he became so lost in the sauce, and he didn't even side in Scattershot to make it a Draw lol.
If taking advantage of time rules is how you are intended to play, how come Konami literally bans you if you even imply doing exactly that? MBT is just on copium this time.
I used to have remote duels and in person duels where we actually played till deck out or when life points hit 0, which lasted anywhere between 30 minutes a game and or to 2-3 hours an entire match. Once we realize how crucial 45 minute rounds are at locals, we started playing with 45 minute timers. We realized how much engine and resources we burn through when you keep playing without time, sure, it’s not a bad idea to train yourself for those grindy games but it also doesn’t help you see your win con any faster or the weakness in your opponents’ strategy. The games where you take back moves, don’t time them. The game where you are committing to misplays, time yourself.
"It's part of the game" is not a valid justification for the thing. The time rules are shit and should not exist in the manner in which they do. New time rules are a major part of the reason I quit. Before the change, I rarely ever had people try to stall me out for time as a win condition.
This is the exact thought process MBT is asking you to avoid. It's easy to just call the time rules unfun and refuse to engage with it. But like it or not, they are part of the rules of the game the same way Link Summoning is, and not learning how to wield the rules to your benefit means you will lose games that were otherwise winnable. The video is not at all trying to justify their implementation.
@@AuraSniper So what if some dude behind a camera is asking us to avoid. Doesn't make him right. "Like it or not..." I don't like it, which is why I'm not playing the game. I have no interest in trying to find stupid ways to abuse the rules to win; I just want to play a competitive game that's fun. This has been possible in the past, so it can be made possible in the future.
Master Duel time rules would fix everything. If you can't do a combo in 5min. while guaging the board state and planning 5 turns ahead, that's called a skill issue.
The problem I feel with that is how you handle changing response windows, in MD, where everything is handled automatically by the simulator including the exact nanosecond a card is played, that's easy enough, but in paper where the flow of the game is a tad more difficult to manage, as you'd need to know exactly when to change clocks back and forth repeatedly, which is important considering how it is very possible, even likely, to lose to time on your opponent's turn in MD.
MAster duel clock is more or less a chess clock. Which honestly i feel would make things a bit more entertaining to watch. you basically pass the clock every time you ask for a response. With you getting some time back at the end phase of your turn.
Cope with the rules and prepare wincons if you want to win are fair and obvious points but the actual conclusion should've been to stop playing this game competitively if you don't enjoy the rules, like, unironically.
This is besides the point of the video but I find eff up that OCG players have to comply to rules that they didn't even made, even tho this game was made by them basically. That aside, even tho the point of the video is fair, that doesn't mean the actual system doesn't suck and there should be a better way to go around it. Like I get that giving every game 5/10 minutes of overtime by giving the players an extra turn is not efficient but isn't just BS that your opponent won because they activated a random burn effect that you couldn't answer to? It doesn't sound very competitive to me. Or that they are going to have to start banning cards due to this time rules, like they did with Lacrima. Spooky dogwood is a dogshit ass card man but due to this new rules she has to go? Idk sounds dumb
It *is* dumb. Everybody knows this. It's just that, what else can you do? Other than stop playing YGO, all you can do is really play with it. This is why despite people saying otherwise, I believe MD is the better format.
16:55 the issue is the opposite though as well. Literally in the example in this video the SE player REFUSES to scoop a game he's probably never winning since it means he is pretty much guaranteed to win in time game 3. Why scoop and turn game 3 into a 15 minute back and forth where I MIGHT lose when instead I can "waste" 10 minutes game 2 trying to break a board I know I can't break and go into game 3 with 5 minutes on the clock where I eventually make Lacrima doing normal plays.
for people who wants to know about the OCG time rules, (at least in Japan) normal games here still goes to the previous sudden death rules of 3 turns, but in Japanese national qualifiers for worlds, the time rules is slightly modified to be only 1 turn for each player, instead of players having 3 more turns after time is called
