Awesome and fair review. I’ve used a D-Box and love it. Expensive, but these prices are fair, considering the technology involved in R&D, and the weight being moved around in milliseconds. No gas, tires, towing fee, mechanic fee, or hospital bills from accidents to pay for. If the build quality and performance is there - fantastic! Thanks for the review.
Having had an SFX100 and now D-Box Gen 5 ... for me personally the D-Box is hard to beat. I feel the haptics and effects are better than that of the SFX100 hands down! Others may disagree but I'll take the D-Box....of course other than the price!
There is a new offering from Qubic (QS 210) with 6cm travel and double the max speed for 7000€ including taxes. Definitely a good competitor to the d-box.
As a seat mover guy i appreciate your honest comparisons. People too often write off seat movers for what is actually their most immersive qualities. Motion is absolutely a game of less is more. Except vertical... i do wish i had elevation. I suspect the best overall system is some combination of multiple styles.
2 месяца назад
Heave is critical. It's the only true vector that can be properly represented.
Fantastic, thorough, clear and fair review. Completely consistent with my research except in one (very picky on my part) respect. You say motion won’t make you faster. That is absolutely true. But though no one wants to say it, it does seem motion will in fact make you slower. This is not really a surprise given the cognitive “confusion” motion creates, particularly where a particular effect may be muddy or inaccurate. You certainly accurately articulated the feeling of that vagueness better than any review I have seen so far.
Yes you do, but say that in the context of talking about high settings. But really it does sound like we agree pretty well completely. That said it may be impractical, but for those of us who are more concerned about speed rather than immersion I wonder if it might be an idea for DBox to create a haptic vibration only version of their system. If they could offer that at a reasonable price, people might be very interested - and they've already done almost all the work.
Excellent question. I've been working really hard at figuring this all out and don't want to pretend that I have. As well there is a largely subjective element as our brain's capacity to absorb sensory inputs and sim-racing abilities are obviously all a bit different. But yes, I have found that I am definitely faster without kerb and bump effects except through my wheel. Overlapping effects confuse my brain and slow me down. Might not be the same for you. Where an effect is not overlapping (LFE wheel-slip in iRacing through a Buttkicker) seems to make me a slight bit faster. But the anomaly there is that e-sports drivers refuse to even use that - so they clearly know that it doesn't make them faster. Have not figured out that part of the equation.
I have a Dbox G5 and have also experienced the weird motion issue in iRacing. It’s only ever happened to me with iRacing so I think it may be a game thing. iRacing is the only one that has a separate motion software that runs in tandem and I think that’s where the issue comes from. But, as you said, a reset of the game seems to always fix it.
If you dont want dyi, eracing lab offers sfx 150 for $2000 plus shipping. Excellent customer servive and bullet proof. 30% smaller than the conventional sfx and quiet. On another note, you should rfactor2, with maybe the 488 gt3. You will feel tyre slipping, and locking to the point where it may render my active pedal a bit redundant. So immersive.
Added a Qubic systems QS-220 setup to my rig a few months ago. What a difference, and what a joy. No issues, it just works. Agreed, I do not run it at max, unless in roller coaster sims, but Iracing in VR needs motion to finish the immersion conundrum.
Make a profit yes but the markup is crazy on some motion systems. If Simrig can make the sr2 motion system, also with 4 actuators and 100mm/s but with 70mm of travel vs the 40mm this has and it only costs €3700 then dbox must be marking this up like mad. The only noteable difference is that the outer casing of this is metal vs 3d printed on the sr2.
It seems like the pandemic changed the sim racing community the same way it changed the 3d printing community. 10-12 years ago sim racers were a close knit group with a special camaraderie. There was a constant, free flowing exchange of Ideas, designs, setups, etc and you could always find someone willing to help. Now, everyone is looking to cash in. Hundreds of once open source ideas and designs are essentially being stolen, branded, and repackaged for sale at exorbitant prices that lock out the average person. Now, even smallest, non-physical items (ACC setups, CAD files for button boxes, etc) have price tags. In most cases the original creators don't know their hard work has been pirated. Even if they do know, justice for intellectual property theft in the digital age is very expensive. Unfortunately, as long as there are intellectually challenged people out there with two left hands and deep pockets looking for plug and play simplicity, it's going to continue
Hallo Dan, wie immer ein sehr gutes und informatives Video. Was mich und sicherlich auch viele andrere Interessieren würde, ist die Einrichtung und Hardware deines Home Assistant. LG Arthur
I agree with this assessment. I have a PT system about half the price. But I agree it’s only good for adding immersion in VR. And if you add motion in Vr you need to add motion compensation to correct the Vr. which just makes the setup more complicated and time consuming to set up. So much so that I rarely enable the motion. Also my kids attempt to climb on the rig while I’m driving so another reason I rarely have motion on. Just having some audio transducers under your seat is way cheaper and gets you great immersion. And a belt tensioner for decelerating is great alternative. I like motion for road texture and curbs and pitch and roll, and minimal motion is better so systems with less travel I think are more than adequate.
Motion is worth it but not the overpriced D-Box etc.. you have to build it your own. My DIY Actuators not SFX are way more powerful and quicker than the d-box ones and did cost 400$ per peace. Motion does not make you quicker that's correct. But it can make you consistent for sure. I am also driving in VR i could never go back to a fixed Rig.
@@DanSuzuki Haha, ok😁 I look forward to it, their pedals look great in your review too, shame about the price. Did any news about haptics for the pedals come through after all?
The problem with these systems is u have to tweak it very accurate.. sometimes u will need to tweak it for 3 hours for just one car.. its about the fine tune to feel the realistic forces.. one digit off or one one digit to much smoothness, can throw u off.. its pretty hard and time consuming to do.. but eventually u will get it right, and it will proper feel realistic, however the forces are very short..
It's seems that you were more entusiast with the NJMotion Compact R review than these D-Box... And is a lot cheaper. Maybe a seat mover with bass shaker is the best combo.
Do you need to run some sort of vr motion compensation with the dbox? Doesnt seem to be a feature it enables out of the box like some of the competirors is this required?
i bet that the power consumtion data is not correct, could you perhaps connect te dbox to a 230ac power watt meter, you know, a wattmeter you plug in between to wall socket and the power plug. (although a quick and poor calculation seems to roughly agree on the power consumption)
This is what I went with. All in all after shipping I paid 3k total for my actuators from eracing lab. Had for about 10 months and could not see my self playing with out motion and vr now lol.
Totally agree with you 👍 Got an SFX-100 and Pimax Crystal iRacing is average in terms of motion AMS2 and rF2 are just sick if you go extreme. But doing a finland stage on Dirt Rally 2 can be really scary with all the jumps😅 Motion and VR is fantastic for immersion!
@@Trigenetic with the 100mm u can also have very hard collisions, never though it could feel that violent in a race game, same feel u crash with 40km/u at a wall.. those filters will help..
You have to spend time with motion. Instead of trying to simulate what's going on with the car through the wheel (not realistic at all), you'll end up adjusting your wheel settings as you rely more on the motion. I'm using 150mm actuators and driving without motion feels very strange. Could not go back. Have tried butt kicker stuff and not even close to a good motion setup with actuators that have haptic feedback.
Rumor has it that Barry started demanding money (or "video production fees," as it's called on the SRG homepage) from companies before doing a review. Maybe that's why? And if that's the case, I find it quite ironic because he used to say that he always paid for the products with his own money in order to do independent and fair reviews.
I have the system and it makes the sim come alive. I can’t race without it now because the sim totally feels numb. I have Sparco belts attached to a heavy desk behind my rig and the belts tighten under braking which is very immersive. At the bottom of the downhill at Lime Rock the rig comes out of the forward pitch and really fools you which further adds to immersion. Same when you come out of the banks at Daytona when the rig rolls out and levels off. The rumbles at Watkins Glen are well communicated for example. This is an excellent review but anytime you really analyze something like this then you see what it’s not doing. However, when you’re racing or hot lapping it’s all in the background. When the system is not working I notice right away and it’s distracting that the car is not alive. It makes me faster because I’m more immersed and concentrating more because of it. I’m using VR too which is a great addition and a must IMHO.
I second this. As a recent purchaser of the G5 dbox system, I can’t imagine racing without it. I continue tweaking the settings too to match different cars. Great review Dan!
I run a sfx 150 system via SRS software at a fraction of the cost of dbox which feels great but I agree about effect on lap time lol. My triples mounted to the rig which gives the feedback a different perspective. Getting a Q3 to try it with VR which should be interesting. Thanks for the review.
I've got two D-Box 4x and would never get rid of them. Had them for years. I'm now building a 2 person cockpit and was watching your NJmotion video. This new cockpit can't move since the monitors are connected to the chassis. Can you check my comment on that video? Thanks! You are definitely my favorite sim racing reviewer. No BS on this channel.
As always great review. Motion is a long way away for me unless I'm ever lucky enough to get for review. Lol. Great points at the end too. Always appreciate your practical views. See you on twitch...
I'd never pass up the opportunity to race in motion, but the prices to do so are insane. Definitely the first thing I'd remove from a rig to save money.
I recommend to get it used. Especially older GEN. It's built like a tank and will last decades with the exact same quality. When it comes to motion and haptic feedback, there's a general consensus to tone down the effects as they can be very powerful. The goal is to get immersive cues about how the car behave. For example, I like to feel the pitch effect when I break on sports cars with suspension with travel. You feel the weight transfer. Am I faster? Not directly. However, I will say that once you calibrate the DBox to your personal liking, it gives me higher confidence around the track, which then can lead to faster time laps. Also, the haptic feedback from DBox is lightyears ahead of what a BassShaker like buttkicker can provide (I tested both). Buttkicker is still great to give cues, but the Dbox is just another level. Worth the money? Absolutely. Should you mortgage your house to get it? Absolutely not.
what are your thoughts about QUBIC SYSTEM - QS-220-PL ? i am stuck between Dbox and QUBIC SYSTEM - QS-220-PL, dbox has 38mm travel while qubic has 100 mm travel.
@Nels_On fair enough, but some people will have both, maybe an old rich guy on retirement just wants to have some fun but can't really be going for quick drives on the track.
The difference in motion quality between games can make sense. D-Box provides game development companies with their Software Development Kit (SDK). This allows game studios to integrate whatever they want to trigger any specific haptic or motion effect directly to the D-Box platform. For example it could trigger a specific response based on a sound, or a continuous feed of physics data, giving D-Box an advantage over the competition. It is hard to articulate the differences felt with a D-Box. Perhaps the word is it is more "nuanced". However some game companies don't prioritize motion, and in these instances it can be left to D-Box to map the haptics / motion based on information provided by the game developer or just the game's output, and perhaps that impacts the quality for that game.
Thanks, extremely helpful video! One question though: Have you tried PT Actuator? And if so, how is it compared with DBOX G5? Which will you recommend for a more realistic experience and also from a comercial point of view. Regards Dan,
its all the same... the motions are fluid.. but u have to have good software like srs and know how to fine tune.. this will cost the most of time.. get it right and it feel realistic.. a tiny bit off and it feels not good..
Ever tried reversing the effects like Niels Heusinkveld suggested in one of his videos? It makes sense that the seat should not be pushing on your shoulders when you brake hard. And from memory I think he even advocated reversing the other axis (maybe).
You lost me at $9000. Sim racing used to be an accessible hobby for people who were interested in racing but could not afford real-world racing. However, it seems that it is becoming more and more exclusive and elitist. And RU-vidrs are fully responsible for this situation, as they do not pay for anything themselves. Everything is either loaned or given to them by the companies that produce the equipment. Instead of criticizing these companies and asking them to lower their prices and cater to their actual market base, which is the people who cannot afford such expensive products, they praise them and promote them. They seem to forget that without our views, their channel would have no value.
Maybe you should actually watch the whole video before writing a comment like this. In the video I pretty much say that’s it’s a gimmick nobody really „needs“ and that there are options for less money that are better 😅
@@DanSuzuki I watched the whole thing I'm a subscriber! 22:01 Yes and no? It should be a total NO and rebuke! But here we are. After fantec's Porsche wheel, (which I have) I SAID NO MORE! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH with these companies and RU-vidrs that praise them and promote them all together.
Well, it is still an affordable and accessible hobby. There are a lot options now that including these expensive motion systems but you don’t need them to enjoy sim racing. Don’t get influenced if you think it will discourage you from this wonderful hobby. It’s there, but that doesn’t mean you need to buy it, so don’t get upset. 😁
@@Mexmex1975so only products everyone can afford are allowed to be reviewed and promoted? Sim racing has never been the average joe hobby. Without these companies having the ability to generate a profit we wouldn’t have motion at all. If there are people who can afford it then why not let creators review it? Don’t see you donating money to companies that failed. So why be mad at companies who risked something for generating a profit just because you can’t afford what they are selling? Simple solution. DONT BUY IT.
@@Mexmex1975and get some perspective. Got people who stand in line for 12 hours to get 2 gallons of water for their family while you play pretend racing. My man you ARE the elite.
