This kind of bike comparison of old vs new is going to become more valuable as more brands are releasing "refinements" vs a "total overhaul". As a consumer this kind of video helps either remind people a 2 year old bike is still very good and could help a truly revolutionary change stand out. I hope we see more videos like this.
Disclaimer: this is before I watch the video but I believe yes… SC is going further down the bulldozer route which is probably great for racing but I ride for fun and I love my 2023 tallboy for that. We’ll see what the video says! Thanks as always, Jeff! You rock!
I own a 5010 V4 and I am firm in my believe that it is still the best version of the 5010. Rockshox Reverb 200 insertion length is just short enough to make the short seat tube work for me. Tbh ride a Santacruz before buying and really measure twice if the seattube can work for you. Otherwise the Seatpost will stick out like a sore thumb.
I was able to snag a 5010V4 used but never really ridden. It was a steal for 2.5k. I agree, reason I bought it was because of how many full 27.5 trail bikes are being phased out. In particular the 5010V4 is awesome because I have two forks and two shocks for it, the standard 140/130 and then 150/143 with a 210x55 shock.
Great video! I had SRAM XX Transmission for a year, but went back to Shimano XT recently, and definitely like it better. Quicker shifting is the biggest thing for me, and I don't miss charging batteries either.
Running SRAM GX mechanical. I like the tactile feedback from the shifter. I can push the lever slowly, quickly, single gear, multiple gears. For me, "it ain't broke".
i picked up a Tower3 earlier this year ( 7 years newer than my old Focus Jam ) ... bloody hell what a difference ! I'm a trail rider mainly, some groomed, some are little more than goat tracks & rocks. For me the handling is the best thing about it - with the old bike we had a conversations about corners before they happened, you only need to think about them and it happens on the T3. I went the other way & put my old AXS on it, way easier on my arthritic thumbs with the short lever ( paddle ) throw. Mine also came with a 175mm dropper. Pretty bloody happy with it !
Given the current pricing of the old tower and the new tower, it was a no-brainer for me to get the old one. Glad I did, and I am super happy to hear that the old one would suit me better in Norcal (near Santa Cruz). I have been riding 3 times a week on the old tower since I got it, and I am loving it and looking forward to my next ride every day :)
Definitely prefer mechanical drivetrains over electric for the same reasons Jeff mentions. I constantly need to dump or up shift rapidly and Transmission just doesn’t do that yet. Both my SRAM XX1 and Shimano XTR Drivetrains smoke Electronic in the shifting speed department. When set up properly both are just as smooth as well. They are also lighter and cheaper. Kinda like MTB Unicorns. I do hope SRAM releases a cable operated Transmission drivetrain. It would be very hard to beat and extremely easy to keep it shifting perfectly. Electric drivetrains are an interesting option but shouldn’t be the only option.
I completely understand the drivetrain change to Shimano. I rode SLX/XT for a decade with zero issues before I got my HT3. Within the first 500 miles, my GX cassette had missing teeth and I’m lucky I haven’t had any injuries after the random ghost shifting (setup verified multiple times by my LBS). I will try upgrading to x01 to see if that helps but really wish SC offered a Shimano trim on the Hightower.
I thought I’d be a ride or die mechanical, but I demoed a Transmission bike and really liked it. In my particular case I have a prior injury to my right wrist and would often feel my tendons pop and seize when pushing the chain up the cassette on mechanical. Electronic totally alleviated that, and for me it shifts plenty fast, so worth the trade offs personally. I think both options are valid and should remain available to suit different needs.
I like that wireless drivetrains exist. When I got back into mtb in 2014 I was shocked that it didn't already exist. That being said, Shimano mechanical is far and away my favorite to ride, (Usually a mix of SLX and XT.) I do tend to use Wolf Tooth, Absolute Black or Garbaruk chainrings, along with Garbaruk cassettes, and I have grown to be a fan of Magura brakes. But the shifter, RD, and cranks are gonna be SLX or XT. Same thing on road/gravel. GRX and XT mix.
If you could do the same style video on the Bronson that would be cool to see. You gave the V4 a glowing overview almost enough to convince me to ditch my V3..now there's a V5 in the mix!
I just got a Hightower 3. It seems like a great all around trail bike, though I’m not near as skilled and aggressive as you guys. You can get a good deal on a HT 3 right now, which is a bonus.
Old man blue rider along the front range…..I’m thinking old tower would be the better choice for me, especially given the sweet deals right now…..as always highly entertaining video, wish I had skills like that!
Great comparison, I have been wondering which one is better V3 or V4. I ride a Hightower 2 Carbon C and its a great bike. The bike shop nearby has a Hightower 3 Carbon CC up for sale. Very tempted to upgrade that. Obviously with the 160/150 travel it rides better on the chunkier sections. As a Hightower rider, I would prefer the lighter bike as I can stay out in the trails longer. The Hightower 4 is slightly heavier, not sure how it will climb compare to the Hightower 3. Overall, both old and new are superb bikes to own.
If any of you want LMNT for cheap, I’m selling off my collection on Pinkbike Buy/Sell. I really liked the grapefruit and caramel chocolate for coffee. Although I’m trying to recoup costs, I’m also really just looking to sell it to someone in need. Make me an offer!
Shimano does not sponser me but if I could always choose drivetrain and brakes, it would be shimano. (I did used to rock and love grip shift xrays 😂😂😂but if shimano had jumped into that type of shifter I would have bought theirs. Shimano XT anything has never disapointed me. I am totally with you on the cable drivetrains. Feel is so important and the electronic shift just can't be as fast as the input of your own analog body movements.......yet. I've been biking since 1991 and the tech has always been tough to keep up. Major tech changes with electronics and batteries is a world I don't want on my trail bike. I just wonder how long it would take to adapt my reflexes to an electroinc shift. THe battery stuff is what sounds awful to me for some reason. I remember seeing matt jones on one of his episodes have major issues with his bike in south america thouasand of miles away from any batteries. Anyway. Greeat video as always.
I run Shimano chain and cassette with GX derailleur and shifter (like GX better than XO1 shifters). I like the Shimano shifting and that it's more stable when dirty or slightly out of tune and the softer quicker feel of he SRAM shifter ... but most of all I like that I didn't have to buy all new shifter and derailleurs for my bikes when I found that Shimano shifts better while SRAM gets horrible when it ages.
And I do the exact opposite. Gx-xo1 cassette with an xo1-xx1 chain with shimano xt mech and shifter. I like the durability of the sram chain and the ease of use of sram cassettes, along with the crisp shifting of xt with the multi shift in both directions. Just got a t-type gx system on a new bike I bought and I’m definitely swapping back to a mechanical system.
Santa Cruz CC frames for 2025 are electronic only, i.e. w/no mechanical shift ports. (Same is true for the new carbon SJ 15 frames from Morgan Hill) This is a load of bollocks in my opinion. The new Tower it seems is just a 29" Bronson. I'll choose the old Tower w/XT mechanical every time.
as you are a shimano sponsored rider who regularly recommends their products: I am on my second m9101 xtr cassette where the rivets holding the three aluminum cogs creak starting at very early miles. have you experienced this and is there a fix?
Definitely agree on the mechanical drivetrain! I've tried transmission, and you just have better feel and control with mechanical. No batteries and no app is pretty big too.
I enjoyed the comparison, but I don’t think the breakover angle explanation for pedal strikes works. Assuming medium frames in the low setting, 170mm cranks, and PNW Loam pedals, the HT3 has an unsagged ground clearance of 158mm with a pedal at 6 o'clock vs the HT4’s 161mm. The HT3 has a 1218mm wheelbase, giving it a breakover angle of 29.09º (2*atan(2∗GC/WB)). The HT4 has a wheelbase of 1237mm, giving it a breakover angle of 29.18º.
Interesting, tho I won’t pretend like I’m checking your math! Long bikes always feel like they catch more pedals to me tho. Remember the new bike has more travel, and with a more open feel, gets into it a bit easier. Anyhow, I definitely whacked my pedals more on the new bike vs the old.
I love mechanical, but I feel like I'm inevitably going to have to switch to electronic transmission at least for my e-bike because of how many chains I've already broken, including KMC E12 and SRAM XX1 chains. I would love to run Shimano, but I absolutely hate the lack of a derailleur cage retention pin, which makes rear wheel maintenance much more of a pain than it should be. As a result, I run SRAM GX or X01 mechanical on all my bikes.
Man, I don't even turn the clutch off half the time I remove a rear wheel! Just shove that derailleur outta the way! The retention pin is a non-issue for me personally.
I have never managed to break even a single chain in my life- there is something you must be doing wrong if it happens multiple times. Pretty sure I always had shimano stuff- but that shouldn't matter that much.
@@olik136my brother breaks his chain all the time and I can't figure it out, we ride similar bikes... His is lower end, so it has a different crank set... That's the only thing I can even guess could be the issue.
I can only how you guys ride. Ill be riding green and blue all day. So scared of gaps😢 i just dont like air time although i was very agressive when i was young, very sporty, love snow boarding but now im pushing close to 50, my knees just keeps screaming pain everytime i do a little jump😢
For now. Only question is if they move both the 5010 and TB to be a 29/MX pair with the same travel, or keep them separated to cover more of the gap. Would make sense to bump TB to 130 and 5010 to 140, making room for a 120 Blur TR. That said, if you look at the new Ripley, change is not always for the better if the bike moves too far beyond the characteristics people love about it.
I’ve never ridden one so this opinion is worth beans but riding footage of the Hightower always looks so awkward to me. Like it’s a bike version of the middle school growth spurt. A little trail bike that grew up overnight and doesn’t know what to do with all its extra size and travel
