final showdown replaces a protection spell, not a wrath. If you look at it as a protection spell first, a combat trick second and a wrath third its a lot more clear what decks will want it. Mostly decks that have one or two important creatures that need to be protected.
Final Showdown is great in commander. 7 mana instant speed board wipe that deals with indestructible creatures. It's the white Cyclonic Rift. Only downside is the triple white cost, which probably limits this to one or two color decks.
if you could play jace on turn 2 you would be able to cast 2 3 mana on turn 2, or 1 3 amna and still have a counter, plot may be a very good mechanic for some combos too
Since you asked, my azorious Control edh deck runs these 8 wipes: Final Showdown Supreme Verdict Sunfall Time Wipe Austere Command Farewell Hour of Revelation Vanquish the Horde
I feel like Richard and Crim focus to much on the wrath part and not enough on the modular side of the cards. Two mana protection is pretty good the second mode is also pretty good even if it just stop a bat form screwing with your hand Don't forget you can do the phyrexian dreadnought thing with showdown
I'm pretty high on Jace. I'm a Jace believer, myself. Even as a Control card he's gonna sit there and break parity as you trade resources, let alone setting aside counters you don't have to pay for in later turns. Comparing him to Tibalt is kinda silly. Sure, he can definitely be clunky for being so late, but this guy is offering free suspend spells among many other things for just 2 mana in every format. TWO MANA in blue is kinda busted. Not gonna lie.
In regards tp final showdown specificly in commander I disagree with it being bad. Every other Wrath it was compared to was at sorcery speed and the argument of one giving you a token is negated wheb you consider wiping your opponents board after they declare attackers which is just like having a blocker. Also in the hundreds of games I watched of magic in commander the 2 big issues with wreaths is they are on your turn and in most games it means yiu are the last to rebuild. With instant speed, you Wrath on your opponents end step and you are now the 1st to rebuild which with hast is a game changer.
Im confused on why richard hates jace. It cheats our creatures and cast valki on turn 4 in pioneer. Alot of grixis removsl is also at sorcery soeed. I think this goes into a grixis deck in pioneer imho.
With the plot on Jace, you have to cast that spell on a later turn, so even if you cheat Jace in, you will have to wait an extra turn to cast the card :/
@@brandondrake69 True. I am used to see: "Choose target creature", to automatically there was for me this passing of worlds supplemented ( so typical for abilities that are in benefit of one creature)
Richard has become the most boomer “grumpy old man” lately. He is quite literally the “back in my day we had dragons and angels, not rouges and assassins!” Does he yell at people to get off his lawn and cars driving too fast in his neighborhood? I bet he has a pile of sports balls that he’s confiscated for rolling onto his property - “it’s mine now! I told you not to play too close to my garden!” 😂 All in good fun, I just couldn’t help myself it’s been so glaringly obvious lately. 👴🏼
Richards insistance on invalidating every creature card in spoiler season because "dies to doomblade" makes me wish mor and more that we could just doomblade richard off the face of the podcast ... It's been years since Richard has a constructive view of new cards, or an intersting insight, or even remotely thought through takes.
Seth: This card seems exciting! Crim: Let's think on competitive situations before we hype it too much Richard: This is unplayable. EVERY. FUCKING. SPOILER. SEASON.
30:56 I feel like Richard complains about things that are non-issues. 😅 The Final Showdown that is shown on screen has the reminder text. If he's looking at the extended art card, none of them have reminder text. That's a given. And Jace is a mythic. How many mythic planeswalkers show reminder text? That's what commons and uncommons are for. 👀
Yeah I mean literally every Spree card says "Choose one or more additional costs" on it, if one needs to have a long worded explanation of what that means that seems like a them problem.
Rares and mythics commonly don't have reminder text. It's an active decision Wizards has been making for a long time. They've even outlined it in articles - reminder text is for commons and uncommons where they'll get the most visibility.
@@AdaWongMistress I disagree with almost every one of richard's takes but he actually has a point about swords. One for one removal is just not that good in commander especially if it only hits one card type and mana efficiency doesn't feel as important in commander either I'd much rather pay the extra to get more out of it like generous gift being able to hit more than just creatures. I would play it in 1v1 formats though
@@hallowedmist4289 the "i won´t put a card in my deck to answer a threat because there are other 2 people who will answer it" came back to bite his ass in an episode where he got a super fast turn 1 commander and then he got plowshared
I see Final Showdown as a white Cyclonic Rift basically. Instant speed means you can save the wrath until you're actually in danger, the last possible moment, and you can save your commander as well, AND you can remove all of the death triggers. Really good I think.
Agree, it's definitely top tier in commander. Being able to hold a wrath and let someone else wrath (only casting if absolutely necessary) is a huge upside. And 2 mana make something indestructible is an exceptional backup mode.
Minor nitpick but Mana Drain is not restricted in Vintage, you can play 4.. it is just way too slow in a format where the best decks are staxing you out on turn 1.
Okay, hear me out. Have Thalia and The Gitrog Monster saddle The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride. Now, you have Thalia riding the Gitrog who is riding Gitrog. Lol
I agree with Richard, the mechanics are getting ridiculous and not only are they not inherently easy to follow, especially for new players, but no reminder text is a disaster. Ppl will miss triggers in prerelease and draft for sure, then imagine they keep doing this. They already changed etb to just enter…..not good imo
As someone with a background in immunology here's a tip for Richard, Crim and anyone else with seasonal pollen allergies. About two months before allergy season begins eat some locally made honey once a day. The amount will vary by person but about a teaspoon should be enough. As long as the honey is natural and locally raised it will be made with pollen from local plants. Some of this pollen will remain after the honey is made and act to prime your system for the onslaught to come. This won't cure your allergies but it should reduce the symptoms by a noticeable percent.
Hot take, I would have rather had an aftermath style set for BIG than the current system. Forcing these cards into the list slot means that they will be super rare, in addition to driving the rarity and price of special guests way up. Not a fan of this solution overall.
12:06 Plotting a Void Rend is the new meta. --Since they see the card you plotted. Who wants to deploy threats into a Void Rend that's already been paid for; it's like holding up counter mana.
You aren't alone crim, glad to see Jace be back, honestly thought we weren't going to see him for a couple years till they wanted to bring the phyrexians back.
@@jamescooley5241pretty much everyone is since apparently meliras cure worked multiverse wide so the only one still dead at this point as far as we know is lukka
@@donb7519 I think Wrenn is permadead because she was killed by something other than being Compleated. I think Tamiyo is also still dead. Basically, Planeswalkers I personally liked, permadead.
@@TulipQ wrenn got replanted which is an easy button to bring her back and tamiyo is back as an ai scroll. So even both of them can easily ignore dying
Warlocks ugh... Gisa was a WIZARD and now she's a warlock??? what the hell is this? Richard's right. They've gone too far, this is stupid. Ruining the best worst girl. SHES A DAMN WIZARD! lol
Richard is unplayable... seriously if you are this jaded about all of magic then why do you even play? I feel like all I ever hear is bitter frustration from Richard. As a newer player (32, started in New Capenna) I tune in to hear about the cool aspects of a new set. MTG Goldfish is a great source for that info and I love hearing Seth break them down. Crim is entertaining as well, Richard just seems like the bitter synic who never has anything to say positively. Seth: WOW these .. will be interesting to see how they play. I think this could be powerful! Richard: ..... I hate it, it is unplayable garbage. *womp womp* It gets old Richard.
I like how Seth and the team are reporting on this set, but are all confused about what’s in the packs, rarity, how much we can expect to see it, lol. They’re a mirror of us players 😂. You guys rock!
@@mrlescure That's still good. And it's technically "3 mana of any color combination". I don't see a world where that is a not good and worth doing every single turn (unless you're topdecking)
Surprised ya didn’t talk about Aven interrupter. The card seems gas in the right decks and wanted to hear Richardson thoughts on his newest addition to his bird tribal list
Did Richard forget both sunfall and farewell see standard play at 5 and 6? But says gitrog is bad because 5 mana? Card seems like a good response to either board wipe honestly.
For what it’s worth, Richard, you’re naming creature types that are a race and comparing them to creature types that are a profession. Yes, I can tell if a thing is a human, kor, elf, merfolk, etc. at a glance because that is their physical characteristics. Like Crim was saying, at a glance, I cannot tell someone’s profession at a glance immediately. I think that’s fine. Primary race - profession as a creature type line is fine.
Referring to wizard, rogue, warrior, etc. as "professions" instead of classes, like they are regular jobs, made me genuinely chuckle. Thank you, you made my day :)
I agree. Bit of a weird nitpick. It's always been like that. But we build around soldiers, ninjas, rogues, samurai, warriors, clerics, and wizards all the time. No one complained when samurai+warrior got together and ninja+rogues in Kamigawa.
@@thesamuraimanThat makes sense for sure, but those examples didn't introduce a new term like 'karate users' or 'defenders of the realm' and then make you have to figure it out. Whenever a ninja or rogue does X is always fine because it is printed on the creatures. Outlaw is not printed on the creatures that are part of the group.
The spree cards are just charms. They're all slightly over costed for their abilities but you have the option to pay for more modes (unlike the charms). Just like the majority of the cards in this set, at least 90%-95% is unplayable in competitive formats but will be great in commander (i.e. the current WotC design philosophy).
Richard really has to overhaul his coordination system... only one example: Gitrog is great and 5 Mana is NOT a lot in standard (especially with ramp elements), there is something called top of the curve - and it will also see Commander play for sure.
📸 sorry bud, beat you to it. 🖥️🤓 And... Done! Just added it to my NFT collection. You can rent it if you want, though. 💰 🫲 $5,000 per post, $1,000 monthly for a private collection @@jackl8025
Final Showdown. Seth: I would play this over Vanquish the Horde. Richard: you play Vanquish the Horde? Seth: …. No. Lol what is Seth saying he won’t play this card but is really hyped others might 😂
I was too busy loving the flavor text of the newspaper cards that I forgot they'd be legal in timelss, so that's exciting! Also, the criticism of the art direction being off-base is entirely true. It's a feaking COWBOY set! Where are my guns? My grit? It's just sanitary and soulless and depressing
I think people are talking about 'Final Showdown' as if 'Fated Retribuition' doesn't exist... It bothers me how much the MTG community values cards based merely on trends... as if the newest is the best because... FOMO, I gess.
Final showdown feels like a white cyclonic rift. It should be seen as a combat trick (single removal) or a 7 mana white cyclonic and keep your commander
every set comes out, everyone says "hey, this is crazy power creep" then like... 5 cards heavily break into constructed.... wash, rinse, repeat. also, how is this power creep if all 3 run through most of the podcast saying everything is unplayable.... just decide.... is it powercreep super powerful bullshit cards or isn't anything making any kinds of waves? because.... it's a logic contradiction that a power creep set wouldn't just destroy the entire meta.
Some of those cards in The Score are just INSANE power creep I think. For the mana value an artifact that literally just says "if you attack then you get to play a card for free that you draw" is just nuts. There's also some Artifact tribal love that I think is pretty insane...duplicating Artifacts at such low mana cost with so many upsides means you could basically just steamroll the table with scary artifacts. Breaking News cards hurt my eyes, I feel like I can't read them properly lol
Most of the set's cards seem so trinkety, it was pretty clear they were designed to be coming in after the MKM rotation. Throwing an extra year into standard rotation is going to dampen most of this year's releases, and I wouldn't be surprised if they flip-flopped on it. I just don't see many of these cards breaking into eternal formats, beyond the uncommon lizard. It is funny that with MKM, prior to the set dropping you couldn't say that the flavor was uninspired or that the power level was marginal without someone kicking and screaming. Now that it's a flop, that's just accepted truth. Thunder already seems set to be a round-two. Feels like there's a reason everyone has mentally already moved on to Bloomburrow.
On Richard’s point on Outlaws: every example he listed were races, not subtypes (professions or statuses) like all the Outlaw types are. Crim had a good point on that, you can’t nearly determine which subtypes creatures are. So, then, should we say screw them? Soldiers are bad to specify mechanics for because they are first Humans or Cats or Robots? That I have to continuously keep disagreeing not only on his opinions but also how he got there is hurting me as I don’t want to pick favorites out of the crew since the many perspectives are great.
I'm not exited for the Thunder Junction limited. Not at all really... Nearly every Mythic is a bomb that ask to be answered immidiatly or will run away with the board. On the other hand we do have such an abundance of premium removal in the limited enviroment thanks to the Breaking News cards in every booster. That is something I'm honestly intrigued to see how it will play out.
24:00 nothing can save Naya tokens. What the deck needs is a way to dodge board wipes, but printing that would make whatever aggro decks are also incidentally in that colors way too good. Naya Tokens is a bad deck, and despite how hard I try Jetmir, Nexus of Revels is just a commander bait card. He's bad, it's sad I love that card.
This set makes me so sad. The cards are fine, but the fact that this brand new plane is seemingly only populated with legendaries from other planes is so lazy. Omenpaths are stupid, and the basically turn MTG's lore into the crappy phase of the marvel Cinematic Universe where everyone was going to different dimensions and there were no consequences for anyone's actions.
It's only been 4 months, and this set is already forgotten. I miss the days when sets/ blocks excited you for a whole year, and you still remember them.
For limited, the special cards like the breaking news cards feel incredibly unfair to play with and against. And thats besides the power creep lol. But then again, coboy's go yeehaa!
Honestly wish there was a behind the stats type of thing showing how often Richard thought anything was "usable" or "interesting" rather than saying every single card ever printed is stupid and should never be played. You would think the guy famous for a bird deck would appreciate not all cards needing to be a modern staple to have a point being used in some decks. I have always disliked richards takes on just about everything but hoenstly its getting kinda grating lately to have his role be "everything is bad and dumb and useless" save for a random card every set that ends up being utterly irrelevant in every format, he will likely be right more often than seth saying everything is sorta playable but at least that side of discussion is attempting to find creative ways to use things rather than just shut down anything that isnt the single best card ever in its role while complaining about powercreep whenever it is. It feels like to him cards are only ever either irrelevant or absurdly op which would make sense if this were a podacast about legacy but its just... not... Dont mean to hate, he is a fun host and i enjoy him in other contexts but its becoming ever clearer to me that i always enjoy the podcast episodes without him more since there isnt a constant stream of negativity
I agree with the crew that the Outlaw mechanic doesn't have enough payoff. There also not enough identity. At least in Masques block the mercenaries recruited other mercenaries.
They could have made a villains party mechanic with outlaws. sure its a reskin but it would make outlaws more viable. call it Posse or something and give bonuses based on how many of the 5 outlaw types. its better than what we got.
I don't know about power level, but I can safely say that for me this spoiler season was a nonstop cringefest. World builders at wotc seriously need to get their act together after these embarrassing sets.
I agree with Richard. Outlaw as a kind of 'super tribal' is lazy design and will get annoying in a couple years when people forget what exact tribes count as outlaws.
