No, Dime’s tone isn’t bad. It just highlights how stupid tone chasing is and how homogenized everyone wants to be with their sound. I’ll be the first to say i fully have been down the tone chasing rabbit hole just like everyone else. But the point is: Dime’s tone, while maybe not conventional especially juxtaposed against the current metal tone landscape; is still killer and it is instantly recognizable. Yes it’s shrill and piercing and aggressive as hell. I don’t think anyone would really say it’s smooth. But that doesn’t make it “bad.” If anything, metal these days has way too much polish in general. It makes me appreciate Dime even more now and I welcome more bands to mix in an HM-2 or just generally throw a middle finger up at overproduction.
I'll grant you a lot of guitar today sounds homogeneous. And Dime definitely stands out. But there are ways of getting a unique metal tone without killing the guitar's fundamentals.
This mix just makes it sound like everything else. I love "improving" old mixes with modern technology (like the Beatles remixes or any of Steven Wilson's prog remixes), but this one just completely changes the sound a kills the in-your-face aspect of Pantera's sound. It sounds like Godsmack lol.
@@BecomeTheKnight Yes, but metal, especially at that time, was about fun and agression (You know what I mine, fun like Anthrax or a shredders can be fun). Dime's tone is not heavy, but agressive as f.. his guitar scream when he put his hands off.. allowing him to very easely make weird noise. Just a very expressive tone build for his own personal playing.
@@BecomeTheKnighthow are you defining “guitar fundamentals” exactly? To me that’s technique. As far as sound, why should there really be any rules? I’m not saying you have to like a particular sound but if someone digs a guitar tone that sound like beer shits splattering into a deep fryer then fuck it. Can’t say I would necessarily like it but I’m willing to give it a listen versus telling people “you can’t do that, it’s against the modern metal guitar tone and production quality bylaws”. I guess I think of something like Killing on Adrenaline by Dying Fetus. The bass frequencies are clipped to absolute hell and it’s kind of a mess but it defines the sound of that album and I wouldn’t really want to hear it any other way. It suits the brutality of their style perfectly. Same with the bass drum on Vader’s “Litany”. It’s jarring and ridiculous and offensive but in a way I love it.
@@K707OR30 he means the fundamental frequency. when you pluck a string it doesn't just make one tone, that'd sound boring, it makes a bunch of smaller tones called overtones. the main frequency, the one that you actually hear, is called the fundamental frequency. and i like dime's tone but it just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. dime scooped his mids, the fundamental frequencies of a guitar are in the mids. 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Dime's tone was distinctive and instantly identifiable. WAY more important that any concept of "good" tone. Alternately, Queens of the Stone Age revealed after years of speculation that their sought-after unique tone was nothing more than a $100 Peavey Decade practice amp (for both bass and guitar).
It has also been confirmed that Josh was more or less trolling in regards of using that amp - yes, they did use it. But using a Peavey Decade won't automatically make you sound like the Queens. They use a ton of other amps as well
@@audiowrench Oh, I never thought that it was the ONLY thing they used. But the revelation totally made sense considering their sound at the time that it was something in their arsenal.
@Downhuman74 oh no I know, your initial comment just made it seem like the Peavey Decade is *the* definitive way to sound like the Queens Of The Stone Age.
Josh Homme is notorious for throwing people for a loop and being secretive about his guitar tone. I don’t doubt he’s used that amp and other cheap sh!t on records though.
@@jeffc1753 No he's not. He literally puts out videos where he goes into excruciating 2 hour detail about how his recording process and how he gets various tones.
while i disagree that the song needs any rework production wise, i always enjoy watching you remix/remaster these songs to your liking, its also kind of a learning experience. Cheers!
everyone claiming Dime's tone is bad is either deaf or into sterile, soft modern metal tones. It has bite and aggression, and isn't too pretty to be metal.
@@napo7866 it's dated, to me, because modern tones are much tamer. They lack those aggressive high frequencies. To me, only Decapitated and Soreption have good modern tones, the rest sounds way too soft to me. Too pleasant
I like the subtle boost of the mids, and I liked the way the new mix sounded bit by bit, as you progressed, but in the end the original mix 24:58 sounds much more clear and crisp than the final product of the new mix. New mix ended up sounding muddy.
Man I loved your Dyer's Eve remix because it still captures the sound of AJFA while bringing back that bass, but this one is way too muddy. I dig the extra low-end boost, but I think the mids just drown out all of the cut the original record has. I think even if you're not a fan of Dime's tone, VDOP is already basically mixed to perfection. The bite may be obnoxious to you subjectively but it's just the sound of this record. Doesn't sound awful to me at all.
Exactly. I think the author of the video needs some new monitors. I work in hifi, and have listened to this album on many setups and the album translates very well on every setup. The original album was actually perfectly balanced and never gets shrilly unless your setup is pretty poor. You screwed this one up. What you don't understand is, you cannot use the same formula for everything. Also, back then recordings had dynamics where modern recordings are very compressed and squashed and sound like crap on big speakers. Cowboys from hell works on all speakers from small to big. BTW, the new guitar tone sounds like a cheap pedal. You also killed the guitar tone that is very unique
I never been a huge fan of dimebags tone, but honestly I could never imagine panteras songs with a different guitar tone for some reason. It’s not my cup of tea when it comes to guitar tones, but it’s definitely iconic. Nice remix!
The lack of proper heavy low end on 90s metal albums has always bothered me. Demanufacture and Burn My Eyes, two of my fave albums, both have the same issue. I like what you did overall here, especially with the guitar mids & kick - although I felt the bass & guitar lows got a tad too intense & headachey on the chugs for my tastes from about 100-250hz.
Dude! Appreciate the feedback 🤘 like I was saying in some other comments I'm not sure if this translated well from my DAW to the upload (may be my screen cap). I'm hearing what some of y'all have been commenting on, but didn't catch it when A/B to Spotify. Seriously awesome seeing you here in the comments 🤘🔥 And the feedback is greatly appreciated.
its crazy how you were able to drain out every single bit of life out of the song. its just impressive at this point. it went from a perfect metal song that you could identify in less than a second to just another metal song. props to you 👏👏👏
While I do prefer the original mix for its uniqueness, I think you’re exaggerating a tad😂 He did this based on preference; no need to take it personally lol
If you genuinely think that then you're simply stating that the writing is totally subpar in your opinion (so much so that you can only enjoy it because of the mixing)
@@tknzero8027 Of course it is, almost as if you necessarily then have to admit it is entirely subjective and thus so is your comment. In this case Pantera's particular kind of mixing is and has almost never been used for metal music because it deliberately cuts off a huge chunk of what metal goes for (low to low-mid frequencies) and unnaturally accentuates the high end. That said, someone mixing this as actual metal is usually mixed might ruin the song for you, and that's where your point ends (not much of a point)
It's often a matter of perspective. Some productions supposedly "'big and full" may come over as mechanical and lifeless. You gotta find the sweet spot, some measure of imperfection is fine as long as it's not distracting. Keeps your music human
The key to a good metal tone is a unique tone. The reason nobody sounds like dimebag is because he had this pure strength to bend his strings. Some metal isnt meant to be pleasant.
I really like what you did with the drums. You’re right about the excessive snare reverb on 90s mixes. It’s very noticeable in Grunge, Prog Rock and Metal.
Because of how well your last video did, me and my brother did another bet. It was “what type of video will he do next?” I dearly choose mixing and he chose writing related. All I have to say is thanks for the 20$
hello! I really like your videos, but I would like to make some constructive criticism (no offense intended) 1) when using the Pro Q3, I recommend using a shelving EQ to cut both lows and highs (this completely removes those frequencies, not just a few dBs, which is useful when some frequencies are annoying) 2) at the same time, when boosting certain frequencies, it is better to use a wide Q, to make it sound more natural (I recommend trying channel strip plugins to achieve a similar result) 3) when working with these types of stems, the tracks are often already heavily compressed and overdriven, so I don't recommend applying a lot of these processes (maybe a small amount just to achieve certain compressor colors) for example, when you use the compressor on drums, it doesn't really sound bigger, just flatter also with vocals, they're already heavy compressed, be careful with limiting 4) when you boost lows or sublows, try using a pultec type plugin, they are especially good at this and the boost feels very natural 5) be careful with the lows in the voice, many times they do not add anything to the mix, they only fight with the kick and the bass also do not cut too much treble, it's important because it provides clarity I hope it works for you, greetings!
Dime was a huge fan of solid state amps. He insisted on solid state. Right before he was killed, he switched from Randall to Krank amps that had valves in it, which was one of his first amps with valves.
I really appreciate you making video on Pantera, was waiting for it for a long time. I am no musician or producer, but i still like original mix more sry. I cannot really express why, but I know that I just do.
Important to remember that in the late 1980s / early 1990s the audio equipment most regular people used was terrible at reproducing deep bass and low end - especially car stereos. If you put a lot of low end in the mix most speakers would just flub out.
Even if people disagree we need more people just being honest with their personal likes and dislikes. Everyone puts out content that is 100% positive and everything is great 100% of the time but no person is actually like that. You can be honest without putting out “disrespectful” content. Appreciate the viewpoints!!! Also love these tones! I’m getting into mixing my own stuff now so this is awesome stuff.
It’s not that dime’s tone is shrill or anything. People are just too used to metal becoming one big Periphery template to appreciate the authenticity of it.
I’m a Gen X, old school thrasher, and I never really cared for Diamond/Dime Bag’s (and Vinnie La Bella’s) scooped tone. I’ve always liked some mids in guitars. So, it’s not just your “millennial” taste. 👍🏻
Your ...Justice remix recently was brilliant; it added so much character, but i feel like this did the opposite. I've never blasted Vulgar... in the car and thought there was anything "wrong" with the mix, but always cool to hear a modern take on things even to show how it doesn't fit every band 👍🏼
I really enjoyed your metallica mixes, they were great , but sorry to say this mix sounds like third generation tape dub from the tape trading days lol, it may have gained some things but the original is so crisp and clear and your is not , i feel the drums lost out heaps on this , and when you say awful sounding drums remember we dont listen to the drums on their own, in the context of listening to the song as a whole they sound amazing ......
Awesome vid! Keep in mind that for Guitar Hero 1 and 2, all songs, except "Jordan" and a few others, were covers. Not that they were worried about licensing, but instead, they wanted covers because you were playing with a "cover band". All of those were done by a session-musician company called "Wavegroup". When GH was acquired by Activision, Neversoft took over and used their Tony Hawk engine for the games. Starting with GH3, they started to get licensing for actual songs, with maybe one or two being done by Wavegroup moving forward. So, if you compare the original "Cowboys From Hell" to the GH1 cover, you'll notice that while the tone is close, there is quite a difference.
Hello. Pantera is still one my my favorite metal band today and a big congratulations on your band and your show in Nashville, Tennessee on July 6 and have fun rocking on stage.
In 30 years time when I'm using the Ai-mix2050 I'll be saying "how weak did BecomeTheKnights remix sound" :) I personally happen to love the "brightness within the heaviness" of Pantera's tone when I first heard it released in the 90's...and still do today. Remember we are always comparing "now" to what recording technology existed before... In 1970 Black Sabbath sounded "better" that 1965 Who. In 1976 AC/DC sounded "better" than '70 Sabbath In 1984 Metallica sounded "better" than '70's AC/DC In 1990 Pantera's new tone just blew all the 80's "tinny" sound into the weeds. (Yet I still regularly listen and enjoy all of the above) Sound technology just keeps on improving and we get used to that new technology pretty darn quickly - its no point judging the old by these new standards.
There’s a sense of space that is lost by making everything feel more present. I like the metal productions from early 90s because they feel like there’s scale and space which is lost on modern productions. Having less bass and low mids in certain areas makes the instruments feel further from the speakers which gives that sense of scale
I liked some stuff you did with the mix especially adding some lower end back into the drums, bass and bringing the vocals more forward. But the guitar tone is very intentional and it changes the feel of the song by messing with it so much, the original guitar tone makes it sound raw, live, like it would sound if you were really there in front of his amplifier.
I think I prefer the original version of the backing vocals in the mix, but generally it sounds awesome! I love this series and I'm looking forward to the next instalments of this series and I hope there are going to be more of these
It's true, when I first popped Pantera into my tape walkman on the way home from school it sounded so heavy. Listening to CDs of CBH and Vulgar caused a bit of 'ear fatigue' with that bite IMO.
I never tried to duplicate Dime's tone, I prefer to play his riffs with modern tones. It sounds better in my opinion, meaning o like better the mix you made 🤘🤘🤘
Im 43 and back in the day, I think it was in 1993, I was 13 and I saw some guys with vulgar display of power tshirts. Since in most situations they were a bit far away from me and they were walking fast, taking a bus, you know various urban situations, I couldnt read the name of the band in the shirt but the image caught my attention. Once I could read the name pantera property I went to a record store and asked for a CD from Pantera and the guy from the store showed me cowboys from hell. He let me listen to the album and I remember being amazed by the tone of the distortion. Back in the day I knew most metal bands by seeing guys wearing band tshirts or metal magazine covers. I miss those days.
I understand what you were trying to do, but by messing and I emphasize, messing with the drums' sound you take away the signature sound of the room where they were recorded and also the sound of Vinnie. Don't know, there are things you don't redo.
Man, you're mixing things up. Tone is one thing, then the dynamics is a whole different thing. You could have said you don't like the dynamics, or how the instruments got caught in the mix, but man, not only Dimebag's tone was monumental, it was the perfect tone for their totally fresh new style. What tone would you use when blending pentatonic scale with blues and even country flavours? Would you have rather used Overkill type of guitar tone? It would not have been suitable for Dimebag's characteristic syncopated riffs or staccato shredding and all the plethora of techniques deployed in his music. And by monumental not only did I mean unique, but... monumental. Leave his tone alone, dude, his tone was just fantastic.
In the early 90's when Vulgar first came out, his tone blew me away and almost everyone I knew that liked metal thought his tone was awesome. Everyone was wondering what pickups he used, etc.
@@johanericsson7309 it's my favorite metal album and it definitely has my favorite production before Black album: guitars, drums, bass, reverb, everything. I don't know what he could change in that.
Man i need the actual finished thing uploaded separately. That's a fucking brutal mix! This really sounds a lot better, even tho i do love Dime's tone, this is kind of just objectively better
Whenever you did in the whole mix, it just sounds with bass boosted, no need to overprocess what is already processed. It sounds almost the same just with different eq balance. However it would be amazing to hear a whole production cover, with a modern mixing aproach.
There's no such thing as bad tone. There may be bad musicianship, bad writing, bad execution, but there are no bad tones. Except the brown note. That's bad.
Your mix sounds way better, but you've done a, like, 'emotional' mistake with the backings ("RE - SPECT"). They sound like sung by a groups of other dudes, in the back of the room, not by the lead singer. This change has a dramatic change in perception, and not in a good way. Original idea, to back it up subtly, while keeping the lead vocalist as 'lead' was more appropriate.
@BecomeTheKnight I guess the way I perceive the scooped sound brings a wideness to the mix, where as mids kind of muddy the tone and brings it to a mono sound rather than a stereo sound.
His sound (metal zone like) is not that bad in the full mix ...i admit it sounds strange when isolated. But hey, it's Pantera signature sound and it's legendary.
I like your mix substantially more too. A mix like this would allow me to enjoy the song without some piercing ear fatigue, possibly because of "offensive frequencies" as they call it in the recording industry. I don't know anything about recording, but I know what i'm hearing.
I love this channel because no, I don't learn any new techniques or anything, but helps me realize mistakes I tend to make in my own mixes that I would have overlooked. Then I A/B and the light bulb moment happens.
Maybe going off topic a bit but it's funny how in the 80s there were basically only 3 kinds of amp, 3 ki ds of replacement pickups and 3 overdrive pedal, studio gear was what was physically available on-site and every band sounded completely different (and Dime was very Out There with his Randalls, Furman and MXR gear!) and now most modern metal sounds quite similar to me despite infinite optuons and variations on basically everything. 'Mon the innovators!
i do like what you did with the bass and the drums i will say. but as a huge fan of this band who has listened to every thing published from this band probably thousands of time at this point, it just dont hit the same. but im very acustome to their actual sound. so I will say you did a great job mixing it as a whole, it just changes the entire feel of the band
I think it went well with Dimes playing. He has that AJFA type tone going on. Dime would hang around James alot so it makes sense he told him some secrets
I prefer the original mix. The snare is lost in the remix and the kick cuts much better in the original. There is a lot of mud in the low/low mids in the remix. Every thing has great clarity in the original mix that translates much better. Good effort and it's fun to see but props to the original master on this. (I'm listening in a treated mix/master room on a 3-way monitoring setup)
Listening back on the YT video I'm closer to agreeing with you. Something between capturing it for video and uploading it did not translate well lol. Like, if I sent you the mp3 of what I did and A/B'd that against Spotify I think you'd come closer to my pov (I could be wrong) If you shoot me an email I'd be happy to send to send you a reference copy. Email is in the video where I captured the DAW
@@BecomeTheKnight I think there are things in your mix that are better than the original. I think the original snare did need some taming but maybe it was overboard and is getting a little lost now. And I think overall your guitar mix is fuller in the mid-range. I also like what you did with the gang vocals.
Something not conforming to the production of the current era doesn't make it "awful." We're going to look back on a lot of stuff that was done in this era and think it sounds "awful" too. And guess what? I bet you will as well. What we think sounds good is heavily influenced by shifting fashion. None of us are free from the influence of that. But that doesn't mean it's "better" in some objective sense of the word. Look, I'm not saying objective quality doesn't exist. We can all listen to a song we recorded in our parents' basement when we were 14 on a cassette player and clearly tell it sounds worse than The Black Album. But once you get to a certain level of quality in recording and mixing, it's just taste and current fashion. For example, are we really going to look back favorably on that barbed wire Darkglass bass tone that's so popular right now? And what about those super glassy, almost brittle clean tones from a band like Polyphia? Or the constant barrage of metronomic blast beats in every metal song? Or every live drum being replaced by a sample to avoid bleed?
I'm sitting here with my Dr. Pepper thinking, "My dad would be pissed if he heard this." Edit: Would be cool if you did something analyzing the tone of The Black Crowes.
It literally just sounds like you threw a blanket over the mix. The guitar cut through better in the original. The sharp sound in the 3-5k range is what made Pantera more aggressive in the mix. I’ll take aggressive over polished any day. And Dime didn’t have a digital sound. He never used digital anything. His amps were solid state transistor heads, not digital. If you’re going to be arrogant I recommend you at least have all of your facts straight.
