is solar power worth it? an analysis 12 years after installation 

I couldn't agree more!

Thats republican views for you!

one of the few people welcoming those in their home with masks being worn all the time.

@@MistressOP what's a mask?

Yes - solar power is a godsend in parts of the country that lack reliable infrastructure. Of course, this is a growing concern throughout the US as we revert to a sub-first-world country under neo liberalism.

Could have done that same thing with a natural gas generator, for a fraction of the cost!

Well I’ve never heard of that one but it makes really good sense. Thanks for sharing.

I'm nicknaming this "the soup can at high noon" trick. What an easy way to align your solar panel.

@Hury Springer Can you be more of a prick to people? I feel like you are holding back your superiority.

Only instantaneously. The sun will move and the best angle will move with it. So you need the average best angle. Also best for what? If you have net metering like the video then its total power output. But if like most places you buy electricity for more than you sell it then you want to optimise for time of day. Basically soup cans are dumb and you should feel bad

​@@mabamabam weak bait

"Cost effective" is a relative concept. Our system cost $20 K - and the minute the array was energized, the house was worth $20K more. We generate more than we consume - so our electric bill dropped to the $9 monthly "service charge" for the privilege of being hooked up to the grid. In our situation, the install has been EXTRAORDINARILY cost effective - it's already paid for itself and promises to keep our ongoing costs next to nothing, and trust me, we make use of our AC. What's not to love?

@@godfreydaniel6278 Godfrey Daniel.. I wouldn't mind it in a field but I would never buy a house with it installed on the roof. What an ugly eye sore for a neighborhood and a big additional expense when replacing the roof or the under payment on a tile roof. Solar would lower the value a great deal for me.

@@josephjakubec3171 - I guess I forgot to say you can't see our array from ground level, and it's mounted without penetrating the roof - our roof is flat (a pueblo revival home) with a perimeter parapet that blocks the sight-lines of the array. The array is at a low angle, and a clever system of interlocking concrete anchors holds it in place. We just had 70 mph winds - and nothing budged...

Good points 😁👍

Thanks for the rundown of your PV system. I suspect home scale PV rarely makes sense on the dollars alone. But there are other factors that make it worthwhile. I consider distributed generation, resiliency, and enjoyment of the technology to be intangibles that are valuable.

Thank you for your content. I really appreciate it! Keep it up!

Well, you are a sun farmer after all. 🤔

If you wanted to start small and have your system grow as you go along, what does that look like? A few panels, a few batteries and as large of an inverter and controller as you can afford? Or does it all have to be matched.

He is also an excellent speaker , no pauses & great diction.

...once he gets to point, around 6:43

He is old school bro..no comparison wd today's only money oriented generation

dont do much in way of financial analysis do you? nice you have money to splash around to fell good but pretty irrelevant to 90% of the population as an example

yarpos If the 10% of the population that can afford to do this stuff are persuaded to do so then that is at least a decent start. It does actually make financial sense as a personal investment too. Many of these things should be in building codes for new housing. Why aren’t they? Zero energy bills for people living in such homes would be a great boon for many with lower incomes wouldn’t you say? Of course we could have splashed our cash on cruises, eating out, gambling or drinking as many I know do. Would you consider such spending worthwhile or is the whole issue you have that some people have some money. By the way we are in our 60s and only started to get ahead once the mortgage was paid off a decade ago so I know all about having no spare cash.

payback allready to have free energy you did not pay 3000 year anymore. you could have bought car and spend money on gas LOL

The reality is, the future is nuclear power... We just don't have enough land to rely purely on renewable energy. The science and the maths are in - and have been for years - nuclear is the cleanest way to generate massive amounts of power. Without it, we're stuck burning coal, oil, or gas for the majority of the planet.

@@CRCinAU we not need use power more and sex should be come illegal xD

how has this worked for you? thinking about it for myself.

@@lolwtnick4362 Hello sir. I was wondering why you have such a negative opinion of the energy usage changes I have made over the last couple of years. I replaced a 30 year old low efficiency gas furnace with a high efficiency heat pump and back up gas furnace, a 10 year old gas hot water heater with a high efficiency on demand tankless gas water heater, incandescent light bulbs with high efficiency LED lights, and 2 gasoline powered automobiles with 2 battery electric automobiles. I also added the grid tied 25 year plus PV system generating 60% plus of our annual electrical usage. The production of, life cycle and end of life costs of the new equipment are equivalent to or lower then the replaced equipment. Reduced emissions from the new heating equipment, along with no gasoline emissions and no toxic oil changes are all a small step in the right direction. I never said I was single handedly saving the planet. That would require everyone working together to make the big changes needed. Do I feel good that I tried to make some positive changes while I still can, yes. May I ask you what changes for a better environment are you making? Please share them. Thank you for your opinion.

Did you install it yourself? What company/brand did you use? Grid or off-grid?

@BigWheelGolf No about 0.39 AUD ie 39 cents which is expensive.

@@lliaolsen728 To get it for $3,900 Au he had to have everything ideal. A roof suited for the Installation straight onto the roof and an up to date Main Power Board/Box. If you have an older setup expect to spend $500 to $1000 on the Box etc? There is a subsidy system in Australia run by the Federal Government. All big Industrial Users and Generators must increase the amount of Renewable Energy they use or produce each year. They can do it themselves or buy Credits off the Government which they pass on to people installing Solar. At present I think it works out about $2,600 Au for a 6.6kw Domestic system. So in reality his system cost about $6,500 Au. His Solar is now credited to the Generator. It will be an on Grid System to get the subsidy. That is one of the cheaper offers but uses Tier1 Panels and probably a Medium quality 5Kw Inverter. About 6.6 kw Panels will never deliver more than 5Kw. Installed by Professionals. No choice to get connected to the Grid. Against the Law even off Grid with over 400v DC and the Inverter delivering 220/240V. For excess power produced he will get about 10cents a kwh. He will probably pay about 29cents per kwh for Grid power used. Our power costs are high???? Plus we have where I live a flat $30 charge per month to be connected. All in Au$s. An Au$ is about 72cents US now. Varies, a few years ago more than a US$. In Australia we would never get away with some of the sloppy wiring I see in the USA. Some might but I don't like there chances. On Grid never. The final step is an Electrician comes from the Distributor and installs the new Meter. There main concern is for maintenance guys working on Distribution lines. The last thing they want is some Solar System feeding 220/240V back into local lines. All inverters are designed to stop Solar power from delivering to the Grid if there is a power cut but every installation has a sealed Fuse Link in the exterior box so they can manually isolate the Solar Systems from the Grid if they need to do that. I imagine all transmission line workers now double check before they do any work on lines. We have no Tax Credits on Domestic installations. A Business can write off there actual cost of installation on there Tax Return. Not sure how long. Maybe over 5 years. I think they also can get a Credit of up to $10,000. It has become very competitive here and the Contractors very efficient. There has to be room for the USA to get more efficient. After all most of the Panels come from China and most Inverters. Some pay more for a German inverter. I simply do not understand why the USA is so much more expensive overall. Maybe here it is due to having one simple Australia wide system administered by the Federal Government. In most areas that includes the new Meter. That is up to your Regional Distributor. I paid $5,500 Au last year. A more difficult roof and Power Box modifications. Saves me about $1,200/1,300 per year. Not a 2'year pay off time. More like 5/6 with the present interest you earn on money in a Bank. Panels have a 25year Warranty and Inverter 10 years.

@@lliaolsen728 as he said, 12 years old. improved stuff since then. manufacturer has probably changed name/ownership several times since then. he showed you, he feeds into and off the grid automatically as required. Setting steel posts and frame in the ground is a basic farmer DIY thing. Farming is not from the couch. all you ask is 90% of the video. try listening.

The governments in Australia tend to support solar. I got grants and then the remainder was an interest free loan. It makes a huge difference to places where the government doesn’t assists or outright fights people

Paying someone else to design and install is where so much of the cost is. I don't fault them for making a living, but I have to take the DIY path -- much cheaper, plus I like knowing the details of the system.

@@PeterLawton I had 3 micro inverters go out I replaced them myself under warranty, if I had someone else do it warranty would not pay labor....so diy and knowing your system can really pay out

@Semper Fi I will do it for myself. I'm developing my design now. Why are you telling me to let everyone decide for themselves - why is that in doubt? Of course they can decide for themselves. I don't understand your point.

Just please don't buy Chinese PVs. The pollution they produce more than offsets you feeling better about using solar.

We should all have solar panels...sounds like liberal talk. That's not welcome in this part of the country. With that said, I want some too 🙃

@@albieoval1657 why are you bringing politics into this? You're jumping to a conclusion that I have some ulterior motive. I have no agenda whatsoever, other than a desire for cheap, low carbon energy for my home!

@@JJ-zg1hh Biden vs Trump. Renewable energy is a big deal. One side believes we should have renewable energy and the other side doesn't. That's why I brought it up silly buns.

That really stinks. Apparently it's just Tennessee, Alabama, South Dakota, and the Marianas Islands that don't have either net metering (almost everywhere) or a similar system (a few places). Contact your state congress representatives - they're usually a lot more responsive than the national ones.

The difference is unless you get a ton of batteries and disconnect yourself, you pay them to offset your grid costs when you produce, and pay for your power when you don't have production. Those aren't free services - the first requires the distribution network and a big turbine to dump heat into when there's too much power, the second requires a natural gas plant to spin up when your panels are done for the night. Having some panels doesn't mean you automatically get the market rate for power unless government specifically passes a law for that, and states that have are scaling back their solar net-metering schemes because they are too expensive and not as effective as say just plowing the same money into wind. Rooftop PV is inherently inefficient for government to subsidize, compared to the other renewable options. Especially in the Appalachians.

@@billheughan637 the power I produce is used up within less than 500 feet from my home. I pay $19.60 per month access fee that's supposed to be for equipment upkeep like transformers and lines. So your argument is debunked

@@Bryan-Hensley That's...not how the grid works. On top of regular maintenance and upkeep, the frequency of your AC is stabilized by a distant power station, and your power contributes along with a mix of other generators (and backups). Since you live in the TVA region it's likely a bunch of dams and natural gas. When your panel starts to sag in the afternoon as the sun sets, other sources have to be ready to step in which means a standby fee. The only way you get away from these costs is to go off-grid completely. Otherwise you're asking other people to chip in to help your bill. Which is fine and some states have done that with net metering, but lets be clear about it.

@@billheughan637 wrong. My inverters synchronize with the grid. You obviously don't know shit about solar. You aren't even getting basic 101 right

If you have a family of 4 or more. Look into having a heat pump hot water heater installed. You'll cut usage by 3500 kWh/ yr only investing $2500. If you put in your garage it pulls hot air out and will dump cool air in your garage and keep it cooler.

the higher end products age really well now although the same can't be said for the low end which age poorly due to cost minimising BOM

Great Northern 70 good to know. Thanks for sharing.

Your mentioning this because ?

Jealous!

@@ronniepryor6610 I bought an old yacht for $4,000. I purchased second hand solar panels for $40 each. I live on the age pension.

Ive wondered forever why braindead sailors seem so backwards. Especually when we have flexible solar sells now. Theres zero reason most of your deck shouldnt be solar plus towed and wind generators. Then again these folks will pay 10k for a 1k item because it says nautical on it

@@cdreid99999 sad you need to put others down. I hope it makes you feel superior as you probably are. My solar panels cost me $40 each. I am considering some flexible solar panels. I wish you well. Cheers Gray Australia

Does the sound of the wind generator make you want to take hostages? Do you use a hydrogenator when underway?

Not just that. In Germany the average household electricity price is around 30 Cents per KWh. Combine that with declining prices for solar modules and very low interest rates. You see where this is going.

Brad, where does your data come? I am pretty sure 30% is way to much.

@@i_con666 My numbers on the yield loss were off %5 clover, 30% wheat. Here is a link to one of the stories: phys.org/news/2017-11-agrophotovoltaics-efficiency-percent.html

That does not make sense. crop production would be reduced pretty proportional the the lack of sunlight. I guess if it was really bad yields anyway it would be less but not on normal cropland. My family farms and I was raised on a farm. At least in the US there is a lot of very marginal farmland / ranch land that could be used.

@@gregkramer5588 The plants only need so much sunlight per day. Since the sun is moving across it's arc, the shadow does not remain in the same place. So all the plants get sun for most of the day.

Pumped hydro is used to soak up excess generation. Pumped hydro has been around for decades when there was only coal-fired generation to soak up excess power generation at night. Nothing new there. But now we have new tech in the form of lithium batteries that can be deployed at grid scale.

you THINK SO???

Why should I take this on imm paying this? Let the feds take the risk

I assume you live in a sunny southern state (?)

That's the piece I wish was explained. I understand the raw cost and payback, but what is the total impact, savings or payout when you consider there is no more or a reduced electric bill? I love the clip. I'm upstate NY and looking at options. I'm not a fan of a 10% savings for joining a community solar group. I have 13 acres and a great south facing exposure.

Kilroy x Yes -Sunny Southern California. But if I were to move to a different State, and I’m sorely tempted to do so, the first thing I would do is install a new solar system. I haven’t incorporated a battery wall yet, I am waiting for them to have time to fix any bugs and for the price to come down. I did install a dual-fuel generator and tied it into my 500 gallon propane tank and added a manual transfer switch. My utility has a habit of turning off our power during high-wind, low-humidity days so they don’t start any wildland fires.

Dan Wood I have a couple of acres and a S facing slope. Ground mount works best if you have the land. Makes maintenance and cleaning so much easier. With your upstate NY winters, you might want to get with a local agency to see how that affects the size of your system, especially if you are on a net metering plan. They may let you go bigger to bank energy to make up the shortage of snow times. Just do your research and you can do it yourself. There are plenty of University of RU-vid videos out there to help.

This would defeat the purpose since they haven't paid themselves off. At that point you lost money and you decided it would be a good idea to spend even more.

He said that this was old pricing and was much cheaper now ;)

About debt being passed on to the next generation. You might find this video interesting: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NfKiW0Gfn04.html

@@davidford694 maybe Keynesian Economics seems counter intuitive because it doesn't make sense. Having said that small religious Communities that take control of their agriculture needs should also take charge of their own currency. Sovereignty is the road to happiness which makes centralized govt / banking irrelevant 😎

@@JohnMarsing Roads? Schools? Internet? Where do these come from?

@matt Harvey Really? Social Security, highways, schools, agriculture support? And on and on. I imagine I can't influence you at all, but the facts in no way support your statement. Jesus taught us to love others as we do ourselves.

@matt Harvey Please look up the Wikipedia article on U S government spending.

I am paying $0.35/kWh and thought it is much... What is the energy source on Hawaii? Imported Coal? Is there no cheap geothermal power plant or why it is so expensive?

Krasa geothermal is only really an option on the big island. Oahu is by far the most populated island, so the only option is imported oil. They do have a good initiative where they can convert a lot of trash into energy (I.e. very efficient incinerators), and a lot of people have gone solar so part of that cost is to offset the “cost” of widespread solar. There’s a lot of management and grid upgrades that need to be done when more than 25% of customers are putting energy into the grid for about 12 hrs/day 365 days/yr.

Didn't some HI power companies limit or moratorium on new setups like this grid connected dual metering, requiring battery only solar installations. Heard some complaining from HIs a couple of years back on that, but wondered if that was true state wide. Similar situations seem to have cropped up in AZ as the grid vs battery lobbies fight.

S Tho there’s only one electric company in HI, but yes they did. In 2015 they capped the number of Net Metering agreements. Now all NEW solar installations have to have battery systems as they no longer allow you to offload to the grid. That’s the double edged sword of wide spread solar adoption. They’re working through how to upgrade the grid and make it more solar friendly, and HI was the first grid in the US to run into this problem, so hopefully we’ll iron out the kinks and pass on the lessons learned!

@@guitarmanusa2010 I've never switched to solar since my coop buys 70% of their power from a hydro plant and most of the rest is from solar farms. Seems we were already going renewable since the 30s (we live adjacent to the TVA districts). Since my bill is under 90 a month in average, I could never justify it on Captain Planet or Major Dollar logic. We let the professionals do it. I do have some neighbor farms that went solar a decade or two back instead of paying the $20k to have a line strung to deep woods new homes. Several of them reversed that decision a couple of years back due to three cloudy winters snowy and a very large diesel generator bill and a battery replacement bill looming. HI won't have those winters. Beautiful state.

Don't recall the make of the panels, but WWoG just upgraded their array with a bunch of 425W panels. If I'm remembering correctly it was 22 or 24 panels added to their existing array.

I had the same question - BTW, excellent presentation, you should have a lot more followers. just sayin..

Glass is not a good buffing candidate it tends to fracture under a buffing wheel causing more defacing issues. Maybe some coating products might be helpful.

@@snozcocram must be some way to recon it

Words of wisdom!

I like that.

I really dont need manufactured crutches to feel good about my existence, I have never felt bad about my existence. That would be a pretty miserable outlook.

@@yarpos Different strokes for different folks as far as what we consider contributing. It's a blessing that we all contribute in different ways.

@@yarpos Your hateful comments are plastered all over this comment section. Why are you so negative? Seems like a little bit of jealousy?

Our two inverters have a grid down feature which allows you to plug extension cords into a special receptical and power things off this when the sun is shining. Coming developments would allow you to use the battery in you EV vehicle as storage for the house. We live in AZ and our first system paid for itself in just over 7 years. If we didn’t have solar the peak usage rate on a hot summer afternoon with the AC running would be about triple the off peak rate.

In other videos he mentioned that before starting the farm the power generated from the solar panels was enough, but now with the farm running it only covers around 50% of their needs for the year.

You may have missed the point. It was his choice as stated and sometimes, it’s not about making a buck as much as it is doing the right thing. Plus he also stated that the panels will last indefinitely not twenty five years. Although they have declining efficiency.

@@vmax4575 I get it, it was the owners choice to put in solar panels and god bless him for following through with his beliefs. im just tryng to clarify the actual costs of the whole system. also he says that solar panels last indefinitely but everywhere else i have seen a life expectency of 20-25 years. also and kind of a side note, i would be interested in seeing an analysis from the electric production side of the house. does the 3 kilowatt hours of electricity resemble as i suspect like puting a quart of water in a fire hose, yes its in there but it is such a small percentage of what is going through it is irrelevant. I dont know but i suspect.

The issue is not one of maximizing profit for a given quantity of capital. It is true that the same $17 000 invested in the broader markets would have returned a far higher return, real estate with a rental component would also have yielded a much higher return. Interestingly enough - at 12 years ago, that would put you smack dab into one of the massive bottoms of the stock market (March of 2009) or, a year or two later, massive bottom in the real estate market depending on where you lived - Florida was ridiculous and cheap for example. Its not really about the return. Its about whether you believe spending a portion of capital in a place that traditional investment rarely ventures - the fundamental basis of everything we create production from - the Earth, is worth it. That is the one major flaw of capitalist economics (or pretty much any human economic system) - it never accounts for where the raw materials (and therefore a % of profits) are derived from. Further, those same sources are never replenished with said profits thus avoiding the concept of making it a sustainable component of the system that is using it up in the first place. In other words, humans generally speaking, just keep squeezing the lemons (resources) from the same tree (the earth) over and over again - never replanting, never fertilizing, never watering - from the generous amounts of money made by selling lemonade. While this is finally starting to change, for the most part, our present civilization is kicking, screaming and complaining the entire way. From an investment standpoint, you are correct - solar is no muy bueno from a purely financial standpoint. From a continuity and endurance standpoint however, throwing the Earth a bone - its a no brainer. Also note that deriving resources at next to no cost from the Earth's perspective, the dumping of our waste into the ground, water and atmosphere is the other end of production - which is also not paid for in any meaningful way. Go figure on how this is all supposed to work with any form of longevity. My solar system and its associated costs are siloed from traditional investing - I never would have done it if the profit motive were anywhere near the top of list re pros and cons. I figure that since every last penny I have earned can all be traced back to the planet we stand on - yours as well, some capital reinvestment is a reasonable action.

@@phillipc.1805 I would only state that no matter how many solar panels, and the exotic minerals mined and used in their production, are produced. You still need to build operate and maintain a fossil fuel production factory for when the sun isnt shining. Essentially you are building two power plants for the output of a singular plant. As I said earlier if you want to put 100k into solar panels on your property go ahead but don't think you will ever attain free power.

This is exactly what I saw, financially not sustainable. Maybe in the future we will be able to tweak our loads to accept ac or dc so that you can undersize the inverter to boost efficiency and continue to drive down costs.

Financial benefit is only one factor with solar systems. There's a social and environmental cost as well. You are forgetting about displacing carbon emissions, pollution from mining coal/oil, the hidden social cost imposed on people's health being eroded by polluted air and so on. Yes, your New Jersey power at 6c/kWh is supercheap. Payback is long at those rates for solar. But how long will those rates stay at those prices? But the key thing here is not to focus too much on financial benefits. There's a reason why solar power is called green energy. It's cleaner compared to the others and there are long term benefits for everyone. You could say it's a form of charity to the health of people's lives and the environment. Just as much like people who ride their bikes to work. Yes, it takes longer to get to work but they also offset burning fossil fuel. It will cost them time more than money. There's an inherent benefit not just to the rider but to everyone else (less pollution, less cars on the road), etc.

yeah! like kinda an important point lol

In addition to sending jobs to China, these panels are toxic when it's time to dispose them. I think they will become Superfund sites.

Solar is much cheaper now. It might be worth it to check it out again

@@amandar7719 Tesla roof tiles are insanely over priced. Maybe someday they will come down in cost, lets hope.

Stable profit from the sale of electricity. If they offset or convert the annual increase thru renewables or conservation they've saved money. They have a guaranteed return on their investment bc of governmental price regulation. Regulated utilities don't chase increased profits like many businesses do. There's no need. They aim for a consistent cash flow, long term ability to service their debt, and a solid consistent dividend. Regulated utilities really are "Widows and Orphans" stocks.

when they are telling customers to conserve - they are delaying capital costs for added generation or purchasing power from a neighbour at higher rates ... self serving - and yes .. when do the rates go down ? ;-)

You really want to compare a few solar panels that'd fit on anyone's roof with a farm containing a few acres? Come on now. That comparison is as useful as comparing gas mileage on a bus vs a Prius.

It really depends on where you you live. this gentleman is paying $.10 per kilowatt hour probably not worth it. Me on the other hand I live in California i’m paying $.33 per kilowatt hour. Average bill for about $350 bucks my system only cost 18k after federal tax rebates plus I got a second to pay it off so the interest I pay is tax deductible. My system will pay for itself in 51 months. Plus I need all the deductions I can get.

But with today's technology and low cost you can break even in 10 to 12 years

This system is also tiny. It's more of a good reason to size up to a larger system. You will still get a long life, and most of all, dont let someone convince you it costs 60 grand to put up a 8 kwh array. The amount that some of these installers charge is rediculous. Do research and understand the costs so you don't get bent over for 200% markup and outrageous installation fees.

Solar panels only have a lfe expectancy of about 20-25 yrs. If it's going to take him 25 yrs to break even, it seems like he'd be in perpetual catchup mode.

it isn't even break even. What do you like about that economic model?

@@protonneutron9046 exactly correct; it shines light on the economics of solar. I have read that with the drop in hardware prices this source of energy is closing in on being a reasonable investment. PS I live in the Memphis area and per the discussion below solar energy is seemingly even less financially worthwhile than it is in this video.

@@10tenman10 So you LIKE investments that you lose money on. Okay

I m only interested in the math, not including government subsidies. I don't want to have to pay for someone else's solar dream.

@David King: point taken, carbon based energy has it"s own hidden costs that are not being costed (damage to the commons), which one could argue is a hidden subsidy. From an economists standpoint, as long as consumables are the biggest (real) cost element of the price, renewables is likely town out long term.

"To win out" long term, bloody autocorrect

@@wernerstapela4616 Yes, the communists always have to resort to violence to win. It is harder to take away property of others than they imagine.

@@wernerstapela4616 The commons , like me, are the ones that benefit most from cheap efficient energy. The wealthy will enjoy the emotional benefit by using cleaner more expensive energy which will be subsidized by the commoners.

Why not keep the panels and just supplementing them with 3 more newer panels so he can increase his yield to get the full lifespan of the old panels?