FIRE is alive and well but boy is it a grind. My wife and I are not high earners but took gov. jobs and moved to Europe negating housing cost and allowing us to maximize savings (75%). Plus we get to travel cheap to help us enjoy the journey a bit more.
Getting rich slowly is always going to be grind, because it's well, slow. I worked in government in the US, then once I had the opportunity to move to Europe (by marriage), I did so. Thankfully my skills are in high demand here, much more than in the US and I'm someone in short supply.
i started a small business in 1998. i really did not make a large income until 2015. it was a very long grind, long hours, high risk, high stress. i am now a multi millionaire, but i dont think i would do it all over again. it was really a 25 year commitment to get over $10M -- the fire movement seems to be very minimal sometimes.
I'm starting to use the term financial security vs. financial independence lately, because I think the former is a lot more achievable for most. Financially secure means you can survive a 18-24 month layoff. Financial independence is the FIRE crowd where you truly don't have to work a 9-to-5. This is slipping away for many would-be FIRE followers. Inflation and rising healthcare costs will kill this for most.
We reached FI in our 40's, did this without even hearing about the FIRE movement and with modest household income in a VHCOL area raising a couple of kids. Key was starting saving /investing early and knowing how to spend below our means. Don't get me wrong, we didn't eat beans and rice but we didn't splurge on going out all the time to high end restaurants either. We constantly look out for bargains, went on lots of travel with the kids where we ate in (nothing beats home cooking in a condo IMO ) often. A week in Paris or two weeks in Hawaii didn't cost too much more than time at home (aside from airfare, but we use miles saved up over the years).
Just finished the 19th July of teaching summer school. Would I rather have the full summer off? Absolutely yes but I have invested aggressively and my future self will thank me. Others may need to work longer but I’m on track to leave at 55, I’m now 50, and never have to work another day in my life. Deferred gratification and sacrifice is key! Good luck everyone!
I guess I'm an outlier. I have made well below $100k my entire career but I think I'm on track for at least Barista FIRE by 60...maybe even true financial independence where i wouldn't have to work if I didn't want to. I want to drop to part-time work around 60 because I'm tired of working 45+ every week but I also want to ease into retirement instead of abruptly quitting. I'm 51 and started investing at around 20 years old. I'm careful with my moneyand don't have children. It is possible if you start early even if you aren't a high earner.
People act like it has to be an all or nothing choice. I would challenge that anyone can make small but impactful changes yet won’t take the personal responsibility to do so. If you don’t want to then don’t blame others for your lot in life. My journey was slower than most but I raised a family, sent them to college debt free, own a fine home and had a rich life while my spouse is a SAHM. I drive paid for cars and have more than I could have ever dreamed. In 2 months I will turn in my notice at 55 and retire to a great planned early retirement. Anyone can do it!
Appreciated this episode. Way to challenge one another. 15 years to fire at 50% savings rate hit hard. Thank you for level setting for us middle income earners in mid 30s who are starting families. I’m making changes to speed this up but still excited for what’s to come!
I agree with Scott, FIRE isn't dead but it's hard work, and folks allergic to delaying gratification, working hard and sacrificing for years, want it to be dead. They don't want others to prove to them it's possible, taking away their excuse. I guess it depends how much you love your present self vs your future self. What many won't talk about is it really isn't a choice for lots of people, NOT because they make so little there's no wiggle room (although that exists too). What's really responsible for the backlash is plenty of people have no control over themselves. They're driven to consume to the max either by insecurity, greed, or by being slaves to the marketing machine/social media competition. FIRE is something you need plenty of self control and discipline to put and keep in place. So many lack any measure of self control, period.
You’ve said it perfectly, I 100% agree! When I’ve watched the counter argument of the FIre movement online, it just sounds like excuses - they’re are solutions around their concerns with fire but it’s as though people are being one minded about it. For those that aspire towards Fire, they should go towards it and those who don’t, that’s okay too- I certainly think it is feasible for me !🙂
Well said. That consumerism can lead to debt and people just don't understand how that works against your chances of building wealth. I have never thought that making some bank or corporation richer was what I needed to be doing with my life energy....
The FIRE Movement is for people that are unable to find/do a job that they like. My wife and I both worked hard TO FIND a job that we love that does not feel like a job. A job is not work if it is a hobby. We will both be retiring at 70 to make room for someone else. We essentially had the same benefits as those in the FIRE movement while still working. By the way many of the people in the FIRE movements, including Mr. Money Mustache, have not fully retired, their job is being an advocate for the FIRE movement and managing their side hustles.
I will push back on the young child thing because when we were aggressively, saving money and living at the poverty line we actively sought out free entertainment every week for us and our child when we were at the beginning, I think that my child experienced more festivals art shows craft shows concerts museums, zoos fishing, than any other kid in our city because we never stayed home on the weekend there was always something available for free. An event on a battlefield a free cooking class charity event that would take any donation even if it was just two dollars now they can tell everyone oh I’ve done that I’ve done that I’ve done that over and over again because they did when we were living under $1000 a month. We did live at poverty level for 16 years. We have put our kid on track for Coast fire training Them to live on 75% of their income and invest the rest as a vaccination against FOMO and YOLO and lifestyle creep.
I'm sure my parents along with many others lived like this before there was a name for it. Only in the last few decades has spending everything you have plus more become normalized. Debt (other than mortgage) used to be a dirty word. ONE car and ONE TV was what people had, anything more was either wasteful or for the wealthy. Today, being in debt and struggling to get out is as common as being overweight and wanting to cut calories and build in exercise. But it never used to be like this. Look at photos of people from the 50's and 60's, they were all normal sized, the overweight were the anomaly. And so were credit card owners...
@@dstevens518Back then I don't think they had super sized meals, packaged food so readily available and inexpensive, and phones and computers tying everyone to sedentary lifestyles.
More episodes like this please, this lit me up! I enjoyed hearing about what you sacrificed in your early years, and what the right balance was you two on certain things! Would love more on that to keep me motivated and balanced.
35 and now retired and live off my etf portfolio!! Can easily be done with smart decisions... made around 80k last 10 year's with my cleaning buisness and invested around 50k each year.... now im totally free with my portfolio giving me more then enough to live comfortably 👌.. get those goals, our minds are so powerful!!!
Mindy is absolutely right about creating your own safety net. The US doesn't have a robust safety net, so that's up to everyone to independently achieve that. Now that I'm on the other side, everything that they talked about in this episode is 100% bullseye.
Our new daughter put a pause on our house hacking. Family and friends thought we were nuts when we started, but now we have two cash flowing assets that have appreciated and equity pay down. Hopefully we can get one more. Also, beans and rice aint too bad. They're the healthy building blocks for the burrito.
Mindy, to your friend thinking of going back to school, depending on what they are going for and if that college will require them to take out a loan, be careful. Ageism is very real in America unfortunately. Around 50 is when most people get laid off and it’s really hard to get another job, especially if you are in tech. For that reason, we are planning on our FIRE age to be around 50. When we think getting hired again will be very difficult anyway. Of course all this doesn’t matter if you will own your business 😅
Believe it or not, I credit the seed of my journey from my grandfather, who gave me the book how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie when I was not even 10. even though I was a shy fat little girl, I absorbed that book and put it into practice, and it has kept me comfortable with people the rest of my life.. I think it gave me a baseline confidence in myself, and people responded to how I treated them which boosted my confidence even more. So I had no hesitation from early on in planning my financial future
Canadian here. Bought a Triplex in 2010 and started saving in 10 stocks in 2012 with $4000 a year. Up it to $6000 the next year. Stopped saving in 2021/2022 due to the Plandemic. Lost my railway job cause i was unwilling to take the jab. My wife, son, and I sold our principal residence in 2021 for $80,000 over asking. Moved into our rental. Live in one. My wife's office is in another, and I started an Airbnb in the last one. Paid off all debt and put the remaining money into Physical Gold and Silver. Started investing in stocks again in 2023 but increased my contributions to $9000. 2024, I increased again to $16500. This year, my dividend income will be $6000. Next year, I am planning on increasing my contributions again to $18000. I am planning on retiring when my dividend income reaches $24000 per year. Hoping on retiring in 2030. I'll be 53. Trying to enjoy life under our communist rule. The only thing keeping us here is my mother being alive, and my 4 year old son loves her. She is turning 84 this year. When she passes, then everything gets pushed forward. Cheers to the channel.
I am about to be 30 with my 2nd child on the way. I am on track and would like to achieve FIRE by 45. I want to be completely available for my kids' late teenage years and adulthood. Too many people I know are not available for their kids or grandkids because their work is too important to them.
I cut the cord when kids were in high school. Even up to that point, I participated in school activities when possible (class volunteer, chaperone, etc). 3 yrs after FIRE, The Pandemic hit. So glad I was around the family through that challenging time, fully engaged because I did not have a job to contend with. Looking back, time seeing the kids grow up was priceless.
I’m totally fine if someone who wants to make 50k and not sacrifice isn’t able to hit fire . Your trying to be rich it’s not supposed to be easy . Those people need to just accept that they aren’t going to hit fire and go complain somewhere else .
There is no one system that can work for everyone, fire is a goal of a certain type of person, and a dream of others. Either way no one knows what will be right way for anyone else. I personally believe this FIRE catchphrase is what all the blacklash is about not the actually thing itself. Keep up the good work 👍
So glad we started the journey before babies. California daycare is no joke, had my son 5 years ago and it was $200 a week in an affordable area. His cost were suppose to go down as he aged but because of increases it stayed the same amount. Had my dausghter Post Pandemic and now daycare is $410 a week. Decided to do a non profit AuPair ($450 vs $617 for two kids in daycare) to save a little but everyones situation is different. Its nice to hear out others ideas and tips because its getting tough.
It's not dead it's just that most people who tried it in the mid 2000s failed at it and now it's impossible to FIRE. Basically I can't achieve FI at a meaningful age at this point because I am out of time. I don't blame anyone but myself but I suspect I am in a large host of FIRE failures.
business as usual for FI (not RE) folks. it's an unconventional life choice, i get it. but loud people shouting "FI(RE) is dead!" only serves to reinforce what unconventional people have been doing their whole lives: continuing to buck the trend AND continuing to reap the rewards. hate away. FI life works fine. the proof is in the math...and the bank.
We have not seen inflation like this since the early 80's... Over 40 years ago. The rate of inflation has cooled, but the effects of the high inflation are still here. Also, wages have not come close to keeping up with it. Inflation is now ~3% while people are lucky to get a 2% raise.
