When talking hybrids, cant not mention the prius. For over 15 years it was the cheapest car to keep on the road. And not to mention some of the best mpg in its size.. So when done properly, carrying "2 power trains" is extremely beneficial.
I think that they will tax Diesel so badly that any other fuel is cheaper to fund before emissions costs make it commercially unviable; the fuel is the primary expenditure in the commercial space, not emissions equipment.
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Tier 3 & 4 locomotives have been running reliably for over a decade and will be around for long time.
If you want to see a company making diesel hybrid trucks, look at Edison Motors. They’re currently only designing a vocational semi, but they are also developing a retrofit kit to put in pickups
Different fuels for different applications I like the electric side by side in the TFL video that would be great for law enforcement in wooded areas just because it's quiet
Sure, but if you don’t need to tow, you probably want something smaller and more efficient then a half ton; maybe not a compact like a Maverick, but a mid-size like a Tacoma is easier to get around and maneuver.
Thx for taking us down the yellow brick road of powertrain options for trucks in the future? But battery swapping at least should have been touched on. Which is already being done in China and a few other places. in various forms. From cement trucks to semis and numerous smaller vehicles, even pickups.
I agree that everyone should buy what makes them happy and is reasonably safe to others (so rolling coal should still be forbidden), but many people care what it’s powered by if it changes the driving characteristics. If you do not feel safe merging into highway traffic due to the slow acceleration (look at some of Tommy’s videos of older underpowered vehicles), then what powers it just isn’t viable and an alternative needs to be sought.
@@Cloud30000 😅 I drive truck for a living. Let me tell, there aren't very many people putting their foot down to merge onto the highway. Most don't even signal or look before merging 😅. Very Very few hammer down to merge.
The EV truck with generator should be the immediate future. Electric torque, Regen, reduced need for large batteries, No transmission or shifting needed, generator runs at constant rpm at efficient power band for generating electricity. The Ramcharger is going to be a game changer. They should have made it a ram 2500/3500 first though. How amazing would it be to pull a 5th wheel with it. You could use it to power your 5th wheeler too.
I agree with your general premise that would have made even more sense in a higher capacity larger pickup truck, but it does add cost and complexity and weight..... there are trade-off for every option.... So a much simpler smaller more efficient range extender, such as a free piston generator,. which is produced by an Israeli company... Would have made more sense, for the smaller full-sized RamCharger....IMHO.... Since as they say the devil's in the details.... Would like to see it offered in even smaller pickups....
Let’s see how the RAMcharger works first before singing it’s praises; the technology is very promising on paper and I have very high hopes for it (though I wish the range extender was a diesel tuned to be clean without DPF equipment), but real-world implementation doesn’t always meet the promises on paper. It’s the biggest reason why engineers and mechanics often have wildly different opinions regarding technology.
@@nc3826 I don't think it would add that much weight or complexity. You won't need a full battery pack, probably just enough for about 100 miles of range. You lose a transmission which is very heavy and a lot of other drive components. Generators are already very low maintenance and self-encapsulated. Look at the stuff Edison motors is doing out of Canada. I think a full ton pickup truck could easily absorb what little extra weight there is.
@@Thebackson As an engineer, terms such as 'that much'... Make me both uncomfortable and make me laugh. I'm not going to go down all the rabbit holes created by the trade offs, of picking a particular type of powertrain.... But for example, when you lose the transmission and a direct drive option you lose efficiency, anywhere between 15 and 30%, is one of those trade-offs.... And I'm sure Edison Motors can make it technically work, my main concern is will it be cost effective? It'll be especially difficult, with the USA placing such high tariffs on Chinese parts. And even the Canadian Market without the tariffs I'm not 100% sure they'll make a profit for the heavy duty pickup trucks? The logging truck seems to make more sense. But it's a fun and entertaining Channel.
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Hydrogen is a pipe dream except you can't transport it by pipes because it leaks out.
Although the i3 is essentially the only BEV range extender hybrid available these days, it is an awful example of the possibilities for that motive power. I am waiting for the RAM Ramcharger which seems to be a well engineered system (like locomotives). Also, I believe that Nissan's e-POWER system will be that same.
I'm waiting too. The Ramcharger won't be the best of both worlds, but if it is indeed engineered well it will be the best middle ground. All BEV for commute distances and Gasoline-Electric for towing and long trips. I'm just praying they get it right.
I thought California mandated only EV vehicles to be sold after 2030? If a California resident can't have a choice and buy a ice vehicle after 2030 isn't that a mandate? 🤔
Sure and Califronia can mandate that humans can't breathe oxygen after 2030 too. Both mandates are equally likely to crash and burn well before 2030 because, contrary to popular belief, government mandates don't change physics.
That’s no new ICE vehicles. You can still purchase USED and keep what you already have. I’m sure folk will just purchase from neighboring states and drive them in CA anyway. As someone who lives in SoCAL, I agree with the need to reduce air pollution. The respiratory issues and burning eyes suck. There are plenty of days that i can hardly see the mountains that are 5 miles away. Now, what’s the correct solution 🤷♂️
Yup, and most auto makers make things based off california laws and CARB. When this law kicks in the used market for ICE vehicles is going to go crazy. Someone could probably make a fortune if they bought a bunch of gas/diesel vehicles prior so they could sell when the law happens
Green energy from solar and wind has times of excess energy production and times of insufficient energy production. To be viable, solar and wind production will have to at times produce vast amounts of excess energy, and it is this energy that is best utilised for hydrogen production. This approach does not exhaust our mineral supplies, which would be the next big problem if we plan on using batteries for ever.
Also, the RamCharger has a larger engine AND a larger battery. Servicing on the engine should be less and best treated like a genset with servicing based on hours of use. The range extender is the best of both worlds, providing you know how to look after your engine and the battery.
The problem is not the Fuel Cells, it is the " Fuel" which it ain't, and the infrastructure ,and the source which is Natural Gas , then transportation and Storage and Dispensing it. Currently unsubsidized and from Nat Gas - Hydrogen cost $14/ kg and a fill UP for a Mirai cost $200+ with no subsidy by electrolysis it's even more than that due to cost of electricity. Yes just stick those Electrons directly into BEV is more straightforward and cheaper. The 2nd gen Mirai is based on the luxury Lexus 500 sedan and is a 4 seater, there are 3 Hydrogen tanks in that car. I know of smaller BEVs that are 5 heaters , meaning more efficient use of space.
@@AuralioCabal-nl8githe key word you used is “currently”; in it’s current form, the technology is not viable. However, with the same amount of investment in advancing the technology as BEV has seen, the production of hydrogen and conversion back to electricity could be far more efficient. The question is if it can be as efficient as batteries (which lose energy due to heat generation, and thus why they need cooling systems to regulate battery temperature). I don’t know, nobody does, because nobody has spent enough money to find out. Now, as far as storing the hydrogen, the batteries may be much smaller but they are also much heavier. From a payload perspective, it is generally better to sacrifice space to decrease weight in trucks, as you run out of payload faster then you run out of space and you can easily make a bigger truck but designing a truck to handle more weight has always been a major challenge. For passenger cars, this is a bit more difficult, but I would argue that the significant weight savings may improve efficiency\mileage enough that a reduced amount of hydrogen to fit in the same space as the battery may still provide the same range, as we see lighter cars get much better mileage then heavy cars using the same engine.
It be interesting to see TFL do a EV towing test Tesla Cyber Truck towing a Airstream then redo it with the EV Airstream Trailer see in the real would if any difference if Airstream can lead out the Airstream EV Trailer
The hydrogen is not cold, it is pressurized. When compressing it, it will heat up. Once it cools down and you move it into the vehicle at a lower pressure, it will absorb heat. This is exactly how your AC works with the compressor causing heat that is removed outside and then a coil that is lower pressure causing it to cool.
You, just proved yourself wrong. The expanding Hydrogen is cold at the dispenser, which causes the clogging. Roman is normally a comedy of errors. Enjoy trying to be pedantic about it, but you lose the comic effect. Especially when he's technically correct.
A bladder could solve the issue, where the hydrogen retains the dispensing pressure and is pumped\pushed into the tank and the bladder is slowly deflated to retain the pressure. It would mean the fill speed is limited to the mechanical pump’s flow rate instead of leveraging physics like propane fill stations, so not sure that would save time (especially if a non-thermally conductive interface material like silicone could solve the issue with freezing already).
Much of the energy loss comes from the heat produced from compressing a gas.... Plus adding a bladder reduces the volume..... And has a significantly lower life span than the carbon fiber tank.... In general it just adding complexity and cost..... For a shortened life span and a minimal return... If this yt expert stuff was practical they'd already be doing it ;)
Much of the energy loss comes from the heat produced from compressing a gas.... Plus adding a bladder reduces the volume..... And has a significantly lower life span than the carbon fiber tank.... In general it just adding complexity and cost..... For a shortened life span and a minimal return... If this yt expert stuff was practical they'd already be doing it ;)
@nc3826 what are you talking about? Compression of any gas will generate heat. The heat of the compressed gas equalize with ambient temps over time. When the gas flows into the vehicle, the pressure drops, which absorbs heat and 'freezes' the water in the air, causing frost that may cause it to stick. The hydrogen isn't stored cold. Sorry if the facts don't care about your feelings.
so there's no mandate that dictates that car manufacturer's must make EV's, there's just a law that makes it so that only electrified vehicles will be legal to be sold by a certain date and it applies to the largest slice of pie known as the car market in the US which many other states also follow too. Got it.
CAFE standards compel them to find ways to become more efficent. When taken into account how stringent these standards will become combined with states choosing to ban the sale of new ICE vehicles at a date in the future, it has the effect of a mandate even if it isn't a mandate. To ignore the fact that such things play a role in what vehicles are made makes you blind in one eye. It certainly hasn't been sales for most manufacturers that have driven the transition.
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Creating hydrogen is energy intensive so counties without methane deposits are still behind the eight ball.
Any chance of doing video covering Louisville colorado first city in the nation to use a 100 percent-electric fleet of waste and recycling collection vehicles.
To the electric trailer idea, I’m not sure it makes it any more efficient because you are using 2 batteries instead of one, so your really only gaining capacity and not efficiency.
One ICE universal engine for NG LPG GAS DIESEL combine with a plug-in powered and run by based on sensors for temperature, humidity and map location, traffic conditions local emissions restrictions.
Great, now a quarter of your payload and trailer space is consumed by various fuel tanks and batteries (a single fuel tank cannot switch to a different fuel due to the massive risks and dangers involved in cross contamination). The only way that would be viable is if the fuel tanks were easily exchangeable and batteries removable so you only install what you need for your current usage.
@Cloud30000 They can use a 10-15 gallon split tank for gas and diesel and a 20-50lbs tank for NG or LPG. Suspension and frame can be upgraded as needed. You can use fuel ⛽️ that have the gas and diesel together on the same unit. Small NG / LPG tanks should be removable and hook like a grill. Quick easy fill up on gas/diesel at the pump. Propane tanks can be made available in more places than gas station.
As explained in the i3 conversation earlier, it is likely due to the EPA restrictions on usage in order to qualify as an EV instead of a PHEV; if they can’t turn on the range extender until the battery is depleted, then the range extender needs to make enough power to run the truck completely on it’s own.
The last time I looked into a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle it was no different then any other internal combustion engine it's just the fuel source is a gas instead of a liquid
Nope.....Since if hydrogen fuels an engine, it produces NOx pollution....While fuel cells are much more efficient and pollution free....Based on Carnot's theorem, also known as Carnot's rule, is a principle of thermodynamics that limits the maximum efficiency of any heat engine, internal or external.... So look again....
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Any added weight from the battery and drivetrain in the electrified trailer takes away from the load carrying capacity. The pay for a load is determined by weight, this must be factored in the the costs. It's not feasible for a commercial truck.
hydrogen was like10+ years ago an area or all the busses and such like the city uses daily for transpeetation in canada i think it was to test to see if it really had any side effects I'd be curious to see the reports cuz it could be a good thing f I r us but they dont know how to regulate it profitt off it like gasoline
Carbon fiber is impossible to repair or recycle, so it would make things VERY expensive. Motorcycles covered in carbon fiber are often totaled in a single slide without collision accident due the cost of replacing the skins on it.
Ok as an engineer I wonder why don't EV truck makers have dual input plugs to charge faster. You now can get twice the energy from a normal station on half the time
@@ChicagoBob123 Any type of conversion is complex and costly... And I just don't see it happening... Plus most EV trucks aren't even using the maximum capability of current dcfc... Ultimately battery swapping will make a lot of sense.... Just check out China.... It's been done in numerous classes of trucks there.... The West is just way behind... That's just my engineering point of view.... But time will tell....
It is added complexity with niche usage scenario. It’s hard enough to get charging stations built will normal single chargers, imagine convincing them to spend more for dual chargers which only earns more money for chargers running at max capacity. On top of that, any truck taking up two single chargers at a full charging station is likely to get keyed.
@@nc3826battery swapping would require a $30k deposit to make sure your old battery is good, then a potentially substantial pro-rated charge for the difference in condition of the old battery vs the replacement. It sounds good on paper, but no one wants to pay those costs even if the infrastructure was there.
Sorry Roman but you’re wrong. The ICE “mandates” have already begun. You cannot purchase a new ICE lawnmower, weed whacker or generator. Electric only. Same mandate that says no new ICE vehicle will be sold in California after 2035. Might want to check other laws before calling it a lie. Just saying. It might not be a law that says “manufacturers cannot build new ICE vehicles” but it might as well be.
I think hydrogen fuel cell is perfect for a stationary generator for maybe a remote charging station. A range extending ev is great as it's easy to tune for driveable compared to blending ice and electric, you have great power possibilities, easy to switch over to. The 1.6td from the 2nd gen cruze would be enough to use as a generator for the Silverado EV towing at max and get 25-30mpg in theory.
AQUARIUS ENGINES, free piston generator. Is even a better option. As a range extender. And methanol would be my choice instead of hydrogen for fuel cells. That's my two cents.
@@nc3826what does methanol convert into when combined with oxygen? The beauty of hydrogen is that it is completely consumed, so water is the ONLY byproduct outside of waste heat and why it is the cleanest touted outside of non-chemical solutions like battery with no byproducts at all.
@@Cloud30000 fwiw the net result with methanol is the same as hydrogen.... as long as you start with Captured CO2.... just FAR more practical And cost effective in terms of packaging, using methadol...
Would you really buy a $50k EV, then buy a $30k extra battery to swap it out? Because no store would let you walk in and swap out your used battery for a charged one, since your battery may be junk and you just want to replace it without paying for a new battery.
The energy transfer and storage medium is really what determines the technology going into transportation. Right now, we know how to convert electricity into kinetic energy via magnetism, and we have many ways of generating and storing electricity, so it’s a no brainer to utilize this method. However, there is still a lot we don’t know about Physics, and we may end up finding a different form of energy that converts efficiently into kinetic energy, or else is abundant enough that converting it inefficiently doesn’t matter. I agree that electricity is the medium-term future of drivetrains, but there are still limitations around it (particularly storage and safety) that I can definitely see us finding a better technology medium in the long term. For example, old Flywheel buses were ingenious in virtually eliminating heat inefficiencies by using kinetic energy to make kinetic energy with no conversion needed, with only the mechanical interfaces and their friction causing any kind of efficiency loss. If we found something that was able to somehow store a massive amount of kinetic energy (such as an exotic matter flywheel of immense density, though having a 50 ton car may be an issue; maybe a depleted uranium flywheel at a billion RPM, with a fluid medium to act as gears to control transferring to drivetrain), then that would easily replace any electric drivetrain as you could have as much torque and power as the drivetrain could handle before breaking by just directly pulling more from the storage medium.
Given the (almost only) type being offered today, I predict trucks will add a 3rd row of seats and reduce the bed to 3'. They are already just big cars with open trunks.
fwiw.... there is a new tiny EV pickup startup called Telo, that includes a third row option for the bed... And let's not forget the Subaru Brat.... But I doubt seating in the bed will become a common feature? Anybody want to place a bet? LOL
@@nc3826 - Thought the states outlawed people in the bed a while back (too many drowning when they could not get the tailgate down?). Maybe having 'seats' is the loophole.
@@Deadwood1919 My point was most people talk about wanting a Bare Bones pickup truck and a few utilitarian options like a backseat for the bed... But just end up buying luxury pickup trucks instead... And I don't see a backseat in the bed, being part of a luxury pickup truck... But good luck with that loophole ;)
1/2 ton truck beds are the same size they have been for over 20 years; the only difference is that more people are buying the version with the smallest bed, which is leading to less of the version with the larger bed being produced. If the sales drop below a threshold, they discontinue one model, which is what you see happening. Your choices of bed are smaller, but the beds themselves have not been reduced. Also note that the people wanting the bigger beds are also the people complaining the most about the prices and paying the least for them, so focusing on those willing to pay more just makes sense. If you feel there is a large and profitable market for a truck with a large bed, then I recommend you come out with one to sell and cash in on that underserved market.
Could we also get hybrid trucks that produce the same power as the non-hybrid models but actually get better fuel economy. We don’t need 500 ft.lbs in a midsize truck.
Good rant on rolling coal 🤣 you must ride road bicycles those guys are always slowing down traffic and not moving out of the way thus getting targeted for rolling of the coal.
You must be one of those large guys who buy one airline\theatre ticket and then overlap into the adjoining seats. I recommended riding a bicycle to shed those extra pounds.
the future (10 years) is electric. There are already commercial cells with twice the energy density of current Li-ion cells. Meanwhile, series hybrids like the Ram 1500 REV would be a good solution. Possibly better implemented
before watching - so, honest answer based on everything I know right now. if you are actually going to use your truck (towing, off-roading, hauling, ect) the FCEV truck would have the advantage because the amount of energy stored on board, and the quick refilling allows for the advantages of both EVs and ICE. now this holds that the infrastructure can keep up, and hydrogen prices come down. There is also a space issue (those tanks doe take up a lot of room, but I think that's just a packaging problem. if that is not the case, I think PHEV is the way to go. it has the plus sides of EV truck most of the time, but has the gas engine for when the battery just won't cut it. Hybrids are a nice addition, but they don't really help if the truck is being used in any real way. so, it's better than a pure ICE, but I would actually go so far as to lump the two together here. In last place we have BEVs. yes the extra weight allows for some real stability while towing, and convince of charging at home is not to be overlooked. However everything that BEVs do better can be done by most of the trucks above with some minor tweaking and not having the downside of an on board fuel source that weighs as much as a jumbo jet while carrying the amount of BTUs that fit in a TSA proved bottle of alcohol.
2:49 okay, so I'm sorry to nitpick this, but you guys are the first contact for a lot of people for this, so I feel have to point this out. The energy density (energy per unit mass) of hydrogen is actually better than gasoline. pound for pound gas actually has about a 1/3rd of the energy available in it that hydrogen. What hydrogen is actually spatial inefficient. so if you took the same amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline (which I think we all kind of know what a gallon roughly is size wise) and wanted to have the same amount in room temperature, one atmosphere, hydrogen it would take up roughly 12 cubic meters of space. For reference that's around the size of a half-bath. so the hydrogen and the gallon on gas have the same energy, the gasoline weighs more, but the hydrogen takes up WAY more space. it is a hard thing to wrap one's head around, and convey effectively, so I don't blame you for not quite getting it right. I haven't found a good way to say it yet, but the best I've found is saying something like "kilowatt hours per liter". It's a clunky unit, but it's the best I got. maybe a demonstration with soda bottles might do it?
9:27 side note - land fill recapturing (effectively what this is) is one of the best "bang for buck" green things you can do. Or it was at one point. Not sure how it is today.
The real downside to hydrogen is not its volumetric density inefficiency, but its net energy inefficiency from production to distance moved, including storage.... We don't have enough clean energy, why waste it on an inefficient option? Increasing the use of hybrids and plug-in hybrids for applications that need higher energy density, such as Towing.... And BEV pickups for lower energy density uses..... Both make more sense than very expensive inefficient HFCEV pickups.... And eventually battery swapping can extend the range of BEV pickups, by swapping in higher capacity larger battery packs for occasional towing and long distance trips...
@@nc3826Volumetric density is limited by physics, and outside of converting to liquid and increasing the pressure it is stored at, it cannot be improved. Efficiency on the other hand is limited by technology, and no one knows just how efficient we can make it. If the amount invested in Hydrogen technology (and production) was on par with Battery technology, it would be far better then it is now.
Hydrogen ICE is a last resort, but I can see a multi-fuel diesel\hydrogen engine using diesel most of the time but switching to hydrogen when required such as in states like California that end up banning diesel.
Hydrogen ICE is fantastic..... If you want the world's worst net energy efficiency option plus still have nitrogen oxide emissions.... Which is getting pretty close to the definition of insanity..... So good luck with that.... But if you want to only use it for race cars I guess that kind of makes sense?
Roman claims to not have a Political show,then proceeds to make it Political. I try to overlook but if sometimes gets bad. I listen for 2 reasons I find alot automobiles interesting, and occasionally I need a break from Politics And be aware that my phone is making if difficult to type correct sentences.. @@TFLtalk
If you don’t want to buy $1400 charcoal canisters don’t buy bmw. You can’t punish all range extended EVs for that. For me it’s pure gas or phev so the gas engine maintenance won’t be a huge deal to me.
It’s not a BMW thing, it’s a neglect thing. If the previous owners maintained it, the factory filter would still be fine. It’s like buying a car with 50k miles and realizing the owner never performed any oil changes. That’s not the car’s fault.
@@Cloud30000 how do you maintain a charcoal canister? Maybe the previous owner liked topping off the gas tank… a non-bmw canister is probably under $300.
Since everything Roman says is an unintentional joke, It's hard to get his rumor sometimes ;) I do love how Andre is able to correct all of Roman's misconceptions, in a polite easy-going manner.
Don’t confuse combustion with chemical reactions. When hydrogen is burned, the energy comes from the expansion of the ignited and combusting gases which generate kinetic energy and heat, with the heat being wasted and the kinetic energy pushing the piston in an engine; those gases are then exhausted, and while they undergo chemical conversion into other elements, the resulting gases are definitely NOT water. When hydrogen combines with oxygen, the chemical reaction releases electrons which are captured in the form of electricity and used to power a motor. The chemical reaction in this case is what results in water, and no flame, burning, or combustion is involved in the process.
There will never be a legitimate market for EV Trucks. EVs have already peaked, and the pendulum is already swinging back towards fossil fuels. Hybrids however...have an immediate future in the lightweight classes of vehicles. Including small trucks.
As stated in the last comment, the problem is energy storage; battery tech, while being amazing compared to 30 years ago, still isn’t good enough for universal replacement of many other energy tech such as fossil fuels. However, as our last 30 years have shown, the future will undoubtedly lead to more battery breakthroughs until it eventually becomes viable or some other energy technology comes along which is even better (still holding out hope for my antimatter reactor). To say that battery tech will never be viable is like saying fossil fuel tech will never be viable back when they were first demonstrated against steam and coal engines.
@@Cloud30000 the more battery break throughs comes with a huge asterisk. Lithium-ion batteries are approaching their limit for energy density. Solid state will out do that, but right now it's looking like about a 50% energy increase. Meaning that (while better) it's still not really viable. Meaning there's no technology on the horizon that will fix the problem. So maybe not "never" but definitely "the foreseeable future"
EV is dying here in Canada super fast. Ford pulled the plug on their EV's plant and now another multi Billion dollar battery plant in Ontario Canada just went on hold. EV's won't go away but they aren't the answer.
It’s not dying, it’s stagnating; however, stagnation means investment will dry up, and with it the R&D to drive advancement. Therefore, it is unlikely to get the research needed to overcome the limitations preventing more adoption for non-owners. If the government investment via tax rebates is reduced, then many current owners who only bought due to rebates are unlikely to find spending more without the rebates to be worth it when their EV needs to be replaced, resulting in a market reduction. On the other hand, if the government starts offering up to $30k per vehicle via tax rebate, they will stimulate even more adoption at the expense of the taxpayers. At that point, they are probably better off funding a massive free nationwide taxi\transportation service using EV’s, and it would help a lot more people (including providing thousands if not millions of jobs) though it would lead to a lot more traffic. Buses in urban environments would help that a bit, but a lot more people would utilize it if it was free.
