@@MFCunnilingusI’m not trying to be mean but this sounds nice but what does it mean? Because you decided who to kill on your way from A to B? You didn’t really impact the plot. Or make narrative decisions. How does this make is better?
@@nothingisawesome there aren’t any real narrative decisions in TLOU that I can recall. What I mean is when you take control of a character, you take an active role in progressing the story. You become attached to the protagonist. Regardless of whether or not their actions are favorable. This is also why playing as Nathan Drake feels awesome, while watching him replicated on screen does not.
Game, the characters in the TV doesn't feel alive and realistic like in the game, in the game you can feel Ellie's reaction to the cruel world but in the TV she is totally relaxed and making jokes, it's not realistic.
It took me a while to figure what was bothering me so much about the show and I realized it was the way some of the same dialogue was rushed out in the show. Certain lines seemed like they were sped up for no real reason.
THIS. It sometimes feels like they are still auditioning and don't know their lines that well, as well as the delivery just being of. Like in the scene where Ellie confronts Joel about him wanting to get rid of her she like almost stutters and stammers through the lines. And it's like one of the most important dialogue between them too...
I feel as if what the show lacked is building up the relationship and bond between Ellie and Joel. In the show, when it gets to the last episode I don’t think it made me care enough about what Joel did to rescue Ellie. I understand that it’s a lot harder to recreate in a tv show but it just wasn’t ‘there’ for me at all
They needed more downtime moments. In the game that's walking from one area to another with Ellie telling jokes from her book, or asking questions about some billboards. In the show there're some of those elements but there's a lot more in the game that can be easy to over look but still be impactful.
I think the show could’ve definitely benefited from having 10 episodes and a longer average run time. The only two episodes they dedicated a longer run time to were very closed off; took place in one area and were basically standalone plots. Whereas the last episode was like 43 mins which is insane. Idk the pacing was kind of inconsistent.
@@REChronic54 they had plenty of time, but they jammed the DLC Left Behind into the main story and spent too much time on Bill’s side plot. The DLC was originally cut from the game because it killed the pacing…. Then Druckman made the mistake of trying it anyway
I agree! We don't get enough interactions between them to make us really care as much as in the game. It's partly because we follow so many characters. Maybe an episode or two or an extra 10 minutes on episodes could have helped.
I think the biggest problem is that we got too little of Ellie and Joel. We didn't get to see all their small wholesome moments that we see in the game, the moments that makes us like them. If they would have focused more on the main characters instead of having a whole episode for Ellies backstory or half a episode for Frank and Billy's story then it would have made Joel and Ellies relationship more like in the game, more like a father and a daughter. Which would have made Joel's decision to murder the fire flies make more sense to the watcher and have a bigger impact just like it did in the game.
I love both the game and show, I think best case would have been for the show to be longer, so that we could have more ellie-joel moments while keeping the other stuff.
By far my biggest issue with episode 3 was what we didn't get. The parts where you have to sneak through the traps along with the infected encounters. Being hung upside down and protecting Ellie. Some of the banter. Its probably the most memorable gameplay part of the whole game. So I was excited to see how they would do it. But instead, they just didn't
I honestly prefer episode 3 over bills town in the game. I love it in the game, but the story is so incredibly touching, and it serves the same purpose for Joel as a character. In the game, Bill stood as an example for what Joel shouldn't do, as in totally starve himself from any relationship, whereas in the show it shows how important relationships are. Both are great in their own right I think, and it worked way better for the show the way they did it.
@@namenotimportant8408that episode adds nothing to the series, the arc or the characters. It was put there to score Druckman social media points and stroke his woke ego. Watch the series again. The episode is unwatchable a second time of viewing.
@@namenotimportant8408 If you enjoy two big bearded guys hugging and kissing more than an actual good post-apocalyptic storyline then go watch some gay porn at this point. No one needs to be seeing this in a series, not in this one for sure.
The game was so immersive that i wouldn't play it alone in the dark. The thought of society falling that fast and ending up with people living so broken. Watching the series knowing the story from the game takes away from the emotional shock, fear and excitement. But if you never played the game then it'll be a great show, for me it was just good.
I’m really late at commenting this but I just wanna share my experience. I started watching the show because of Bella Ramsey and it made me a huge fan that is also the reason that I bought a ps5 to play TLOU. That was the best decision I’ve ever made. Now when looking back at the show I miss the fighting and tension a lot in the show. So I think for people who don’t really game the show is perfect but for the gamers its not enough content bc some story lines are also missing and you can’t really see how Ellie and Joel grow towards each other
The problem with reducing violent action scenes is that it removes very important build-up and foreshadowing about Joel. In the game, we are constantly reminded of what he is capable of and what kind of man he is. I just don't buy that TV Joel would be mentally or physically capable of taking out an entire hospital filled with armed guards by himself. I's not believable because Joel has only been portrayed as a depressed old man with panic attacks until that point.
i was fine with a lot of the action reduction, or could at least reluctantly accept them. The real offenders for me though was removing both the fight at the house after ellie runs away, and the length of the university fight. the house gave pacing for the story, as did the university fight whilst also showing ellie having to become capabale in an instant to protect joel. But the show removed both of them, and we ended up with about 15 minutes between ellie running away, getting her back and the falling out, making up and leaving together, exploring the university and then getting injured. There was no time to really soak in any of the stages because they removed both of the action scenes that gave them pacing, and those are very significant story beats that needed the pacing.
@@munkayttaja6913not really though, especially because Joel is supposed to be disjointed from Reality because of how hard he pushes away his past, the first 15 minutes of this video speaks about Joel wanting to find tommy and Joel actually appreciating Ellie quickly as good but Joel is literally so broken that he simply pushed everything away including morales and real pain, Joel is a killing machine because he goes from having nothing to lose having lost his daughter and falling out with his brother who he thinks is soft, to having everything to lose having found out his brother is married and has a civilization and finding Ellie who replaces that whole in his heart that is Sarah while never seeing Sarah as replacement and more that Ellie is his second chance………. So yeah Joel should have been FAAAAARR more brutal and efficient
Well in my opinion they want to leave suspense until the finale, because Marlene said something along the lines of "I know what you're capable of" and they wanted suspense until the finale as to what she meant.
@@dillonkramer1575 the torture scene and the hospital scene are the big scenes meant to show what Joel is capable of. He is more humane in the show tho which is fine
It was a good show. Especially for the people who don't play games. But I've played through the game 15 times. Favorite game hands down. It provides so much more emotion.
Honestly I think the biggest problem has to do with the acting. Bella Ramsey did ok at Ellie, not great, and Pedro pascal, while being a good actor, felt hollow outside of scenes he was meant to be emotional in. You could say that’s because he hasn’t recovered from his daughters death, but even in the game, Joel has his tone changing constantly, he’s not just jackass the whole time
who knew different media do storytelling differently and aren't bound to the same restrictions or possibilities? It's almost like the whole argument is about just that and not objective quality differences like at all
The game immerses you as Joel. You’re not just in the cutscenes you’re in every moment he’s experiencing in the game and even Ellie for some moments. You feel his pain when he loses his daughter, you feel his anger when trying to save Ellie. You become the characters and you become their emotions. The show cuts some moments out and doesn’t really capture the relationship of the two characters as well as the game. It does a good job, but the in game relationship feels deeper and more thought out. They have conversations through the whole adventure that are much better than the show and Ellie’s actress for the game is a thousand times better in conveying the characters personality.
to be fair its harder to connect a movie audience to a character because in games you control the character giving you that connection but in shows and movies youre a spectator
@@HeyDucky62 This is kind of why I prefer long TV shows and movies, myself. They take the time to give you reasons. Shorter stuff like the tlou show cant do it.
@@HeyDucky62for me this is why I hate Part 2. It tries to do both. We have essentially been Joel and Ellie for 20 hours in Part 1 and then Ellie for 10 plus hours in Part 2. I was Ellie at that point and was doing everything at that point for Joel....then we are forces to be Abby. It completely killed the game for me at that point. When you switch back to Ellie later, the player has all this other information but the character Ellie has none of it and for me it broke the experience. It was still a video game but told as a movie/TV show because we had information the character didn't. The actions of the character makes no sense based on the information she has or technically doesn't have.
@@darekforeman535 But this is, imo, exactly what the game wanted you to feel by forcing you to play Abby. It was always about seeing things from more than one side and making you think about your feelings while doing very questionable stuff in a broken world. Ellie's quest for revenge on Abby is not about justice, it's about the messed up things we do out of love. Ellie isn't supposed to be the hero of this story or even a good person. Just as Joel wasn't when he slaughted a whole hospital full of people including a possible cure just to save Ellie. It's meant to feel difficult to go on and follow the character's intentions despite knowing what we know. We might identify with the characters we play, but in TLOU they are very much separate and flawed people we only accompany on their journeys for a while.
The game is absolutely better in every aspect. The story beats, the pacing, the music, the subtlety, the characters, and the performances outshine everything in the show.
@@brotherbrodhe first two episodes were great. Especially the beginning stories before the episode’s main story starts. Everything else seemed rushed and budgeted after.
Honestly, my take on why the series wasn't so powerful as it could be, is because they didn't use Gustavo Santaolalla's music how they used it in the game. Yes, simple as that. The music in the first game is 50% or more of the experience and storytelling. And they replaced all key moments where the music played a key role with plain silence. Some songs were even made for specific scenes, and they just scrambled them like it didn't matter. Disappointing in that regard, but the series was a happy happening.
Man I especially hated it when they used the music where Joel is running with Ellie in the hospital as the murdering montage music in the show. I also did not even like that montage.
@@oneyplayes465 Actually, I liked that scene where he's murdering everyone, because it puts a lot of weight in his actions, in the video game it feels a little bit normal, you don't feel that guilty about killing those guys. But, the scene of him running away from the soldiers with Ellie could've been there. The last episode was the one I liked the most, probably because they used music hahaha There were so many scenes they didn't use music so powerfully like in the game. Sarah's death, Henry and Sam Death. The ambient music while walking through places...
@@guilhermenunes7075 i didn’t like that it was in slowmo, it looked like a ballet. in the game it’s dirty and gritty. i feel like it was too pretty in the show so it didnt hold as much weight. i did like it better when they used the music when joel is running with ellie.
@@guilhermenunes7075 It just felt to me like it was trying to paint Joel in a more Sadistic light. Almost one who just stirs chaos without rationale. He did not have to murder the soldiers the way he did in the show. In the game you could have skipped so many of the soldiers by stealthing through which was more believable than a one man army in an even more grounded show. Due to all the soldiers being murder we missed the Joel carrying Ellie in a sea of Soldiers to better match the opening of that one soldier and his daughter. We did not need to feel guilty about those soldiers because Joel had already expressed his guilt of murders before. The music also works better for when he is carrying Ellie as oppose to the montage. In the game that scene carried such weight, that it almost felt dream like. A beautiful execution on the games part.
@@oneyplayes465 Joel killing everybody shows how much he wouldn't let that situation happen. He wouldn't even think about letting someone alive that could stop him (like Marlene). It shows how much pain he held on for trusting the world and letting his daughter be killed. That wouldn't happen that day, and it didn't. When I first played the game, I didn't even think if it was right or wrong to kill those fireflies, they were just some other enemy NPCs. Games sometimes get too numbing in the violence part, and you don't even think about it. So that scene made a lot of sense to me. Anyways, game is 10x better anyways hahahaha
I honestly think a lot of it came down to the acting. The live action performances were great, but I think the game performances were just much better.
People are too nice, tiptoeing around the issues. The live action acting wasn't great, it was mediocre. I feel like no one is talking about Bella's performance because they're LGBT+ and they're scared to say anything, but me personally, I found it really bad in comparison to the game. Her cadence, line deliveries and intonations were all off the mark, and tbh she just doesn't have the acting range to pull off Ellie. Pedro pascal as Joel is better, but even his line deliveries leave much to be desired, and while he's great at the brooding man at the start, he doesn't quite reach the range that Troy can
i love pedro pascal and bella ramsey but youre 100 percent correct. troy baker and ashley johnson did a beyond amazing job and I’m afraid nothings ever gonna beat their performances
@@JustAnotherAccount8 Bella isn't good at sarcasm or humor. Their chemistry is off. She also looks like a 12 year old, no matter her real age. GOT, 12 year old. TLOU season 1, 12 year old. TLOU season 2, 12 year old.
What I love most about the live action adaptation is that it was able to take those disparate chapters from the game and tie them all thematically. It's clear that we are supposed to understand that in the final episode, Ellie is suffering from survivor's guilt and having suicidal ideations. Joel understands this too from what she says after the giraffe scene, and it's why he tells his story to Ellie. "I couldn't have been more ready," he said. His bullet missed. Henry's did not, but Joel's did. And all he's trying to do is make Ellie's bullet miss. He is just buying her time until she can one day too find someone to live for. In the show, it's all more tightly connected.
I’ll probably always prefer a well written and quality gameplay experience to a TV show of the same story. You become saturated in the world in a way that simply isn’t possible given the shortened nature of the television medium. However, I would contend that a novel would be on par given the more in-depth internal perspectives it allows. So, in short, television and movies will always be less than what games and novels can offer.
Well every medium has it strength and weaknesses. Video games as a story telling medium has a strength in the interactiveness but also a great weakness, story needs to be molded to make sense from a gameplay perspective and give meaning to gameplay , so that can create what would be in literature and cinema illogical or receptive and goal oriented to make sense to player objectives . And that video games forces the story to be told from the player, which shortens the flexibility that cinema has to jump between perspectives seamlessly. Nick Druckmann loved that in the TV show you did not have to follow a player perspective. I personally think both the show and game are great for their medium but I do love how certain characters and details are expressed more than in the video game because of the strength of the medium. Novels are the greatest in the depicting the subjective experience of characters. But they demand the dedication and concentration of the reader to with their imagination fill out the gaps as both cinema and video games are stronger in objective depiction, because they are audiovisual. And because of the last point they are quicker in hitting peoples emotions. Just some thoughts.
Especially when you consider how phenomenal the voice acting was.. the game characters were second to none, and the live action characters weren't nearly as effective. Which brings up another aspect, is that they shifted their characters in certain ways fundamentally where this becomes an apples oranges comparison.
Reading a book is always better, as it exercises your mind, and it let's you use your imagination as you envision the scenes in what you're reading. I think so many people cheat themselves out of that, being constantly glued to their phones, they miss so much going on the world around them in the world, meeting and talking to new people, and not learning and expanding their minds, their imaginations and creativity. Same thing goes with watching too much TV, by doing that, you're wasting your mind, and thus your potential. Best part by strengthening your mind, you're better able to deal with the stresses of life. I'm old-school, and just see things differently. I just think technology, while certainly a great tool if it's kept in its proper place, can rob you of so much if you allow it to rule your life.
@@thecowboy9698 I began reading for pleasure during my first year of undergrad (‘08) and it fundamentally altered my perception of reality… in the most positive way, of course. I went from voted Most Carefree in high school to being rigorous in my academic pursuits but allowing for that same level of mirth, playfulness, and disregard for the rules to intertwine in a healthy manner. There’s a quote that goes something like, “If you’re thinking too much then start writing… if you’re thinking too little start reading.” My love of reading fostered an enjoyment of writing and then going on to grad school I worked as a Specialist/PhD writing tutor for the university. Reading can change someone’s entire being. I’m proof of that. Good thoughts my dude. I will always love quality video games and quality literature. Thanks for replying :)
The “kiss of death” for Tess felt shitty. No other character, infected or not, had a death like that and I doubt anyone in any future seasons ever will. I can bet right here in writing that no other bitten character will ever die like that again. For a character like Tess, who already had so many of her character building moments either cut, given to Joel, and changed entirely, it felt disrespectful to her character at worst and eye rolling at best.
I don’t understand what’s so evil about killing her like that. She 2 better, yes, but there is no justice or hope in this world. Why should she be the exception?
That's because the cordyceps never had to be spread like that again. It was always violent because well, the characters were defending themselves violently and were trying not to get infected. Tess was already infected, defenseless. There was no point in fighting and the infected knew this so it opted for an approach to speed up the infection without violence. I think it's an interesting way to show that the cordyceps don't just operate via violence, they spread via any means necessary, but if violence isn't necessary, why use it. It was disturbing, but also interesting to see in my opinion and I mean if you choose to look at it as eye rolling or nothing but shock value that's your decision but I don't think that's what the writer's intentions were.
@@ryantony7743 pretty much my thoughts on the matter. We do see similar stuff in the show. Cordyceps is violent to those who fight and resist, absolutely. but whenever we see someone who is incapable of fighting back for whatever reason (or doesn't fight back)... The infected are quite calm when they spread the infection or eat the person etc. We see this TWICE in the pilot. Once with the old lady that Sarah comes across. And then once more in that alley where there's tons of infected calmly spreading the infection to MULTIPLE people. They use different places to infect (ear, throat, I think), but the idea is the same I can understand some people not liking that moment with Tess. Sure. I'm not the biggest fan of it myself. But I kinda see what they were going for AND it's an interesting idea. And it's shot well. With this beautiful backlighting contrasting with this terrible thing that's happening. This unfeeling entity turning something beautiful into something horrifying. But calling it bad simply because it made one uncomfortable or horrified or just cuz "it'll only ever be used once" (not *quite* true as I pointed out)... Is strange to me. Idk, but I like character deaths and moments with the Infected to be a bit novel and unique Also... It's a show with zombies. It's bound to have *some* uncomfortable body horror stuff going on
The ending of the game is what makes me appreciate it more as a game than a tv show. The tv show is good it will just never beat how felt when i was in game, i was joel, i was ellie thats a bond that cant be replicated on tv no matter how hard it tries and that follows through all the way to P2...
The problem with the show for me is it isn't adapting the game as a complete story with a beginning, middle and end. They're refocusing the lens on connecting it to part 2. Instead of focusing on Joel and Ellie's relationship in part 1, they're trying to add darker touches based on what we know from part 2. Transforming the narrative into something that wasn't it's intention in the first place. Take the hospital scene when Joel goes to get Ellie. In the game the emotional score kicks in when he picks her up and races to get her out of the hospital. But the tv show on the other hand uses that emotional score for the scenes where Joel is shooting the soldiers, reframing the narrative to be more about the mass cost of life for one person instead of the importance of that life.
@@drakenfistwell, they failed in almost every way they could with the story of Part 2, so they need to change both parts to be able to work together well.
@@The_Sleepiest_SocialistI honestly want them to give audiences the exact same story we got in part 2….. if they truly believe it’s such a “masterpiece” then they should stand by it and kill Joel on the first or second episode so everybody can feel exactly what gamers felt…. Then when the rating drop by nearly half maybe druckman will pull his head out of his ass
@@makhibarber7213Popularity is meaningless. Sure, people might not like the fact they kill joel off so early, but it makes for some of the most compelling writing in a videogame. What is it you hate about part 2?
Nothing is comparing to the game. From the gorgeous scenery, gameplay, the bond between Ellie and Joel, to all the hard work put into it. I personally don’t understand why they felt the need to make a movie when you have a whole game you can play, or even watch cutscenes on youtube.
Can I just say how great the thumbnail is? It is simple, yet does everything it needs to. How the game mirrors the show just what this video is about. Its clear that both the writers of the show and you really care for this masterpiece
Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson’s performances are irreplaceable, and so far as getting you to bond with Ellie from the perspective of Joel, the game accomplishes that infinitely better given its medium. The game is also more tightly focused on Joel and Ellie, never breaking from their perspective, and all the downtime in between action set pieces is some of the best parts of the entire experience. That’s when you really get to immerse yourself in the world moment by moment, and the fact that the developers added all of Ellie’s little observations and conversations into those sections does a lot in helping you get to know her better. The show never had any chance replicating what the game accomplished and could only poorly imitate it.
I wouldn’t say poorly replicate it but it’s noticeably less emotionally effective(?). They’re both good but I do believe most people prefer the game, myself included.
I think that the main difference is that the videogame format you can naturally spend time with a character and go through everyday survival and grow the bond between them. A TV show has to justify the budget and the short episode length pacing every time it has a slow bonding moment so ultimately the slower pacing made me like the game more but only slightly. My complains with the show are minimal
The amount of friends I've introduced to this story through the show makes me so happy. Most of them never played video games. One of my friends even watched an entire play through after she finished watching because she wanted more. Also the amount of times I've heard "I can't believe this is a video game" is crazy. Like yes, it is a game, that's why I love it, because it's brilliant and a true testament to what the medium can produce.
As someone who was a show watcher and then watched game play I have to say there are some parts the game gets better and ditto for the show and I think that goes to show that they both did extremely well in storytelling
@@CChrissssssy storytelling, not to say that the game didn’t do well in storytelling but of course as a show it has more opportunities to build the characters more than they already are
I was so sad that we didn't get Joel pulling Ellie off of David. It's my absolute favorite part of the game. The entire setting was beautiful & I think Joel pulling her off was the moment he 100% becomes her father. In the show, he doesn't even see why she's so distraught and just hugs her in the snow outside. Just didn't hit the same for me. Something I also don't see talked about as much is how much "meaner" Ellie is in the show. I think the game shows Ellie's loving and soft side, and then she's sassy when she needs to be. Show Ellie is just mean for no reason often, like when she's rude to Maria in Jackson. They take Ellie in and welcome her, then Ellie says "I'll make the other kids mean like me" and "this jacket is really fucking purple" with an eye roll. These moments really put me off. I never saw game Ellie like this. She's rude to Bill, but only after Bill is dismissive and harsh with her first.
Yeah I still prefer the games. The production value is much higher and more consistent. I also think the show is over reliant on exposition while the game absolutely excelled at environmental and visual storytelling. Overall the show was a good effort but compared to other contemporary HBO series like Barry or Succession I honestly don’t think it was anything that special. If the game didn’t exist and wasn’t already so strong (for 10 years mind you) then perhaps I’d feel differently. Perspectives on this topic are pretty varied depending on what you were exposed to first.
Such a great point.. without the game, this would be like a straight to DVD movie.. as a series, the marketing was already done by the games historic success.
The only thing I found disappointing about the show was the ending. Why did they spend 80 minutes on an episode fleshing out a love story that hardly pushes the narrative forward but only spent 40 minutes on the end of the actual story itself? Also, they should have made David's story 2 episodes long so his death was more impactful
Yeah honestly the fact that they introduced, expanded, and ended David's character in a single episode is pretty impressive, but it might have been better off over two episodes. Also while I appreciate how they spent time with the love story making it realistic and not rushed, you're right about the actual finale being short. Aside from paying the actors, it seems like the biggest expenses in making the finale are the inclusion of an actual girraffe alongside a CGI background and the fight scene. I'm sure they could have added a little more.
i kind of hated tess’ TV death. in the game, she fights her way out against FEDRA and seeing her body, gun still in hand, while you have to fight what’s left is actually gut wrenching. it worked on a different level. however, the TV show’s small nods to the infection spreading and getting to form a bond with sarah’s character by having an episode focused on her was actually really appreciated. i think that’s what the game tried to do by having us play as sarah at the start to make her death more meaningful and both worked! the adaptation did a lot of things right in a lot of different ways, but the pacing and how fast joel warms up to ellie in the TV adaptation didn’t make the most sense to me. he’s hardened and cold from his loss, and it feels like only a couple episodes in he’s already attached. at least in the game, he can’t let himself show it or even acknowledge he feels that way.
exactly! why the F*** would an infected KISS her!? like wtf were they thinking. Tess was just as bad ass as Joel in the game as seeing her go out by fighting off the Fedra was bad ass. There are so many moments like that in the game that are ruined in the show.
@@Mar-pe9kx i do like that outing for tess but at the same time fedra being there doesnt make sense bc they really wouldve forgotten about them instead of tracking them down
@@Harlz_2007it makes perfect sense though? FEDRA was pushing to finish off the fireflies. If they found evidence of the meeting, why wouldn’t they pursue that? For all they knew it was an opportunity to finally finish off Marlene.
the game is better because it gives more time to the protagonists to interact ,this coming from a person who watched the show first and played the game after .
Honestly I find pedro and bella's acting kinda forced and cringey. Their facial expressions are fine, just something about the way they deliver their dialogue seems ... fake and off. Pedro in the 'I failed her' scene with Tommy is like school acting to me 😅 I think it's because the game is so subtle so when i'm playing it I am IN it (just started again) ... I'm removed from that engagement in the show and I just notice it loads, I'm an observer who's not engaging and it just feels ... fake to me when I've acted on behalf of the characters and FELT those consequences when the cut scenes come as a result. I thought the guy who played Tommy was great, especially in the scene i mentioned. And Bill was great too. Just my opinion of course. I can't really get on with the show. Not intending to s**t on those who do 😄
The emotions I felt during the hospital section, playing through it and knowing that every person I shot was trying to save the world, knowing that going to save Ellie was the objectively wrong choice, but not questioning the decision to do it, is something no game or story had ever done before to me and hasn’t done since. The show was damn good but nothing can compare to that feeling in the game
Same, in the hospital all I could feel was how frantic I was to get to Ellie to the point were every time I'd die and have to reload I would scream out Ellies name and say I'm sorry but I'm coming don't worry, it wasn't till the car scene with her in the back did I actually reflect on what I'd done and if it was the right thing to do, but then seeing Ellies bright green eyes looking back at me from the back seat I knew I had. The first game is truly a masterpiece of media and gameplay that moved me in ways nothing has since.
To be fair, another valid thought process was "you knocked me out and are dropping me out on the street without guns, supplies, or even a single goodbye... get out of my way or get a taste of your own military-grade weapons"
I think people often fail to grasp what the moral problem was. It was NOT the wrong choice to save Ellie, and the reason WHY it was not the wrong choice is because the people in the hospital DID NOT HAVE CONSENT. That's critical. You can't do it morally without consent. Consent of the individual, Ellie, or consent of the legal guardian, if the individual is considered too young or otherwise is incapable of making the choice. But you have to ask, and if the answer is no, then you can't do it, even if it dooms all mankind. I should, however, clarify that I did not play the game; I only watched the show. If the game presented it differently, then I might would have to revise my statement here. But it's pretty easy to make the call either way when you make sure to consider consent.
Just seen this on Twitter and it’s exactly how I feel. The game had so much action and tension that it made the character development valuable. They tried to force character development without tension and action so it didn't come across the same
44:49 I understand why they didn't include it yet I still wish we had something. Like give us an encounter with maybe two runners and a clicker and show how Joel and Ellie work together, how cohesive they've become as a pair. Just when they think their ok, use the scene with the fireflies.
The first episodes cold open being set in 1968 is reference that not a lot of people got. In it's inception, the last of us started out as a video game based around george romero's night of the living dead and was even pitched to romero himself. The year night of the living dead came out was 1968, sorta referencing the game's original concept with the cold open's place on the timeline
4:55 Joel saw Ellie as an cargo and a burden and nothing else, until his feelings changed about her which gives the relationship between them more meaning in the end more than the TV Show
One of the strongest parts of good story-telling is the protagonist's initial reluctance. He adamantly rejects the idea of delivering Ellie up until Tess gives him no choice. I didn't really feel that at all in the show. We also missed out big time with Bill and Ellie's interaction. We really don't get who Ellie is and what shit she doesn't take from anyone until she butts heads with Bill.
That first time you got left alone in the hotel and finally make it out I was so glad to see her lol. I wish the show didn't skip so many great moments that made their bond stronger
Joel refers to Ellie as cargo and nothing more like 20 different times in the first 3 episodes of the show though, maybe you missed it but it's definitely there
@@Derp009 Saying it and showing it are astronomically different. Joel could have said it 100 times in the show and it would fall flat when shown against how quickly he bonded with her. The show isn't a bad adaptation, per se, but it's a joke to say that it even compares remotely to the richness of the game series.
Great video! As someone who was amazed by the show but hadn't played the game before, I now actually prefer the game. They both hit differently, and I can enjoy both as a version of the same story. I'm glad the show introduced me to the games. The game experience felt so much greater, probably because you are more connected to the characters' actions, you spend more time with them, exploring and fighting your way through the aftermath of the infection. TLOU1 and especially TLOU2 are among my favorite things in any media now. TLOU1 made us love the characters which is essential for TLOU2 to be as impactful as it is.
I think when it comes to the trusting david thing, as a person who watched the show first, I trusted david a lot, but I think it would be easy to see the betrayal in the game and then go to the show and not feel the same trust because you already experienced David’s betrayal
Yeah. There are some parts of the game that were expanded on in the show that I really loved, and I also love that the show is there for people who will never play the game, but nothing can compare to the experience of the game and almost feeling like you’re apart of the journey yourself.
I prefer the game myself, but also really appreciate the TV adaptation. Getting more eyes on such a well-written story is worth it, and obviously the show was very well received by those who watched it. That being said, the first season did feel a couple episodes too short - I think that the section with Sam and Henry should have been two episodes as opposed to one for example. All in all though, it's a great time to be a Last of Us fan :D
watching this is so cool because markiplier talked about his opinion on this game in an episode of distractible. he mentioned that he loved the story as well as them gameplay, but that he feels cut-scene heavy “movie games” are generally derivative and wonders if the games wouldn’t be better as tv shows or movies. this series feels like a direct answer to his question. we stripped down most of the gameplay of the game to a very slow, occasional thriller-action drama series, and it seems pretty clear that the immersion of gameplay really changes the viewer/players experience. both experiences are good, but they will hit you different because yes, even if your 10 hour game is 5 hours of cutscenes, the medium is still critical to the game dev’s (the artist) vision and message.
I can think of a few. Bella Ramsay, as Eillie, just thought she was a little better. Like when she yells “The girl who broke your fucking finger”. When Ellie brings up Sarah, Joal responds with a simple “Don't”. The whole Left Behind episode. They are showing things from other parts of the world. Explanation as to why Eillie is immune. Henry is deaf. We get to meet Frank. Tess’ death. Dina’s cameo. Seeing Jackson. The intro
@@Tillyard86 Obviously it's all subjective, but I think literally everything listed above was done worse in the show. I find Bella as Ellie was a better casting than I initially thought it was going to be, but I cared for her far less than game-Ellie. I found Joel's entire conversation in that bedroom with Ellie far more emotional in the game. It was a lot more tense, and I thought acted better in the game. Left Behind in the show kind of made no sense to be honest. Riley just joined the Fireflies and was ready to bomb Boston? Plus they only dealt with one infected that managed to infect them both, whereas the game had a far more epic encounter. PLUS, in the game we had the back and forth of Ellie in the mall in the flashback as well as the "present" getting supplies for Joel. Absent in the show. Showing stuff from other parts of the world was pretty cool, but if I am not mistaken, that was just in the first episode? We didn't need an explanation for Ellie's immunity, and plus I thought it was pretty dumb how they explained it. Henry being deaf was honestly really stupid. Made it less believable. Meeting Frank was also a dumb change. In the game it is implied that Frank hated Bill, and was just using him because he was resourceful. He high-tailed it out of there first chance he got. Tess' death was also a weird, unnecessary change. I kinda liked the show's one, but in the game she fights like 6 military at the same time to buy Joel some time to get out of there and kills like two of them. But like I said, subjective, so I can at least see this one being better. How is Dina's cameo something done better when she is essentially a fan-fic addition to Part II? That said, good little nod at least. Similar to above, seeing Jackson is more lifted from Part II rather than the first game. So seeing Jackson isn't comparable because you don't really go to Jackson-proper in the first game. I thought it was dumb they actually went because the game fired a lot faster in that regard. Lastly, the intro. I assume you're talking the first episode versus the prologue of the game? If so, I thought they did a great job in that in the show, and showing Indonesia being infected was cool. It was also cool to see the neighborhood and all. Another one of those things where it's up to preference. I preferred the immediate chaos of the game, but if you like the slow burn of the show's intro, I understand that.
@@shlakenjake How can you think those things were done worse, that's nuts! Sure the show did it different, doesn't mean they did it worse. I wasn't only the first episode, it was almost every episode. We didn't need it no, but we got and I think that's pretty amazing myself. You can't say the game did it better because the game didn't do it at all. Again just because the game did Tess’ death differently doesn't mean it was bad. I loved how they did t in the show, way more be liable in the show if you ask me. Again, just because the show is different, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. Isn't it better to see Frank and his relationship with Bill? I thought it was pretty nice. How can you think it's dumb to see more of these two together, that's such I weird thing to say. Did you not play Part 2? Dina plays a massive role! That my point! We don't see Jackson at all in the first game so it's pretty cool we got to see it here.
@@Tillyard86 I never said that just because the show did things a little different they are worse, I think they are worse because they were not done as well as the game. I am beginning to think you didn't really play the games, but watched people play them. I don't think it was almost every episode that showed some other part of the world, even if it were, that's not necessarily a good or bad thing, it's just a thing. A game takes place from the protagonist's perspective, show's take place from the watcher's perspective. The other point... You kind of just dismantled your own argument and agreed with me. You put it on the list as something the show did better, yet just said they were incomparable because the game didn't do it at all. That's the point I made. Again-again, I said Tess' death wasn't bad and I could see you prefer it. I didn't necessarily but I thought it was kinda cool. I preferred the military tracking the smugglers, which was absent in the show, but the swarm of infected was pretty cool. No, I didn't think it was better that Frank/Bill were given an episode almost entirely devoid of Joel, infected, and Ellie. Hell he didn't even have a town like he did in the game, more like one fortified street. I think it's dumb because it completely changed both Bill and Frank from the game, and we didn't see Joel/Ellie interact with Bill (besides a flashback), which was an awesome part of the game, for a shoehorned love story. Hell, I even liked the episode, but it would have been so much better with the real Bill. It felt like a DeviantArt fanfic story when it was established that Bill was hard to be around and Frank hated him. It's entirely necessary for the show to do some things different than the game to really set itself apart, but entire character changes are dumb. Yes, I played a ton of Part II. Beat it multiple times, and even got the Platinum. Dina was the most pointless character ever. Basically every new character in that game felt like fanfic. I don't see your point there, but yes, kind of a cool nod to have her cameo in the show. Lastly, like I said, them spending a bunch of time in Jackson I found a negative. We didn't need to see how cool Jackson was because they shouldn't have spent any time there. It was cooler to see that community in 2 because you realize that they have it made at that point.
I prefer the game mainly because it was my first time experiencing the story. Both versions of the story are fantastic. The show adds a lot of new lore and scenes to the story like the episode about Bill and Frank expanding on a side story that was only hinted at in the game however the game has a lot of scenes that aren’t present in the show like when Joel Ellie and Tommy ride back to Jackson. The argument scene doesn’t hit as well because All Gone Reunion isn’t used and Ellie doesn’t actually run away like she does in the game. Her leaving made Joel’s anger at her more understandable because he is responsible for keeping her safe. The scene where Ellie gives Joel the picture of him and Sarah isn’t in the show either. The scene in the game perfectly showed how much Joel had changed and developed from the start of the game. However I enjoyed the scene they replaced it with. Joel explains to Ellie that after Sarah’s death he was going to end his life something which is said subtly in an optional conversation in the Pittsburg Hotel section. The scene in the show is very good because it it relates to an earlier conversation in episode 3 where Joel says that he got a scar due to him being in a shootout something which being viewed in retrospect adds a lot of weight to Joel’s story and in a different way it shows how protecting Ellie is Joel’s new purpose. Something which is shown in the picture scene, both these scenes show Joel’s development and how he was able to move on from Sarah’s death however I prefer the scene in the game because we already know that Joel attempted to end his life as stated above. Joel’s reaction to Sarah’s death feels very real in the game because his world is crashing down and words can’t describe his emotional turmoil. In the show he has an emotional outburst which fits this new version of Joel. He is more emotional and his panicked reaction to Sarah’s death hits hard as well. I may sound like a broken record but I prefer the game version of this scene because it shows Joel’s reaction with fewer words and he doesn’t need to speak very much to show how distraught he is. You can see it in his face. The Infected are more present in the game due to it obviously being a game. We need enemies to fight in the game but the show doesn’t need gameplay so it cuts out a lot of these sections. I think this is a necessary change because lots of Infected wouldn’t really add that much to the show and seeing them less has more of an impact when they actually do show up. The game has more of an emphasis on the music with a lot of moments having very very memorable music that adds to the emotion of the scene. The show is able to expand on Ellie’s backstory showing us how Ellie’s mother died and how she was put into the care of Marlene. Ellie’s mother Anna was perfectly cast being played by Ashley Johnson the actress of Ellie in the games. The use of the music Unbroken in this scene which is used to signify Joel and his fatherly love is used for Anna as well. It shows how Joel and Anna are alike in a lot of ways. They both would do anything for Ellie and would do anything to make sure she is safe. The side cast are given a lot more screen time because the show allows the creators to show multiple perspectives something which Part 2 attempted to do but struggled with in a lot of ways because of the pacing. The added scenes with Henry and Sam before they meet Joel and Ellie doesn’t detract from the story or halt the pacing it only adds to it. We have a better idea of both these characters before they meet Joel and Ellie and it adds a lot of emotion to their deaths a moment which I remember extremely well from my first play through of the game. The scene shocked me to my core and it took a while for me to recover. The scene where Ellie tries to use her blood to save Sam is heartbreaking and it adds to Ellie’s guilt. The game focuses on Joel’s reaction to their deaths and how shocked and heartbroken he is having to see more people he was beginning to have an emotional connection with Henry and he saw how Ellie’s friendship with Sam gave her so much joy. Joel was bonding with Henry talking with him about his experience driving motorcycles which Henry always wanted to experience. This scene adds a sense of calm and we don’t think that anything bad would happen to these two people. The show focuses on Ellie’s reaction to their deaths and of how she is in complete denial and disbelief. She lets out a horrified sound. It’s not loud but more subtle and subdued. You have to watch the scene to understand what I’m talking about. There is a lot more I can analysis but I think I’ve covered a good selection of moments comparing how each differs. In conclusion while I prefer the game I think both versions are extremely impactful. We are very lucky to get an adaptation of the game that retains the heart and soul of the game while adding to the world and side cast. Both these versions of the story complement each other perfectly.
They’re both beautiful. I watched the show first then immediate played both games and honestly the seamless transitions from cut scenes made me realize how perfectly it segued into a show. Can’t wait for season 2 and “last of us part 3”
The show just rushes the Joel and Ellie relationship. Where as the game takes it’s times and you get more events that are in general great stepping stones to how Joel acts at the end of the game. Plus you get to see how Joel is more ruthless and secluded in the game. Showing his dark past at every point. Where the show makes him weak and doesn’t portray how he is some ruthless person. Most importantly the world building is 1000% better in the game. The infected were actually a danger. Where the show there basically no infected at all. Making the world not seem as bad. Joel and Ellie just roam empty areas one after another.
I will offer some pushback in that practically every infected encounter in the show results in the death of an important character. Tess dies to infected in episode 2, Kathleen and Sam (plus Henry as a result) die from infected in episode 5, Riley dies from an infected in episode 7, and Ellie's mom dies because of an infected in episode 9. The fact that the stakes are this high and that infected aren't shown as much makes them seem more threatening in my opinion. In other words, the less you show something, the more impactful it is when shown, especially if essentially every time it kills an important character.
@@gigachad3925 I can see your point but the world seems way to safe for being the post apocalypse. Yes every character dies from the infected but that also mostly due to incompetence. Instead of the infected actually being a real threat. Honestly humanity looks like it could exist more so in this universe then in the video game version. But this could also be my own bias as it is hard for me to separate the two.
@@gigachad3925 the way the fungus acts and spreads is way better and more realistic in the game Fungi tendrils doesnt move at all And i HEAVILY DISLIKE the hive mind idea too
Spot on...But don't you think Druckmann purposely changed the way Joel acts in the TV series to try and justify what happens in the second series? Personally it just came across as stupid in the TV series, because Joel telling Tommy he's lost his confidence and doesn't trust himself anymore and then they have him doing a Rambo through the hospital. It just didn't add up.
I don’t think Pedro Pascal did a bad job… but there are problems with how he portrayed Joel. Joel in the game is a highly capable man that lives a violent life due to the world he lives in and his repression of his true grief. The Joel of the show is someone who has not repressed the grief of his daughters death and shows it constantly. This results in not just two different depictions but two different characters all together. I understand that the game has more time to really flesh out the slow shifting of Joel and Ellie’s relationship from cargo->companion->daughter surrogate, but I think they tried to go straight from cargo->daughter and it was really jarring. Side note but I found the showrunners decision to make Sam deaf was incredibly odd. If you’re going to make a change like that I need a reason for it narratively and there really wasn’t one.
isnt that the point of the show? thats why they were told not to play the games, so they can have their own take on the character, so they dont try to mimic troy or ashley
"Joel in show is different so is bad" They are two different versions of the character, and neither would work in the other medium. If a videgame were you murder countless people trying to survive in the most brutal ways imaginable had a protagonist constantly talking about their feelings and showing a lot of vulnerability it would create ludo narrative dissonance that's off the fucking scale. But if you had a season of TV where the main character spends almost all of it completely closed off, it would lead to uninteresting dialogue and it would be harder to root for joel. Imo both the game and the show are as close to perfect as you can get. Sam being deaf was integral to his role in the show. For one it's cool to see more deaf people on screen. Representation is always a win, so I'm glad a show like the last of us is so inclusive, I don't think it's a problem at all. But it's not just representation for the sake of it (even if I think that would be more than ok) it helps emphasise how vulnerable Sam is and makes him rely on Henry and more importantly Ellie a lot more. By making him deaf, Ellie becomes more of a guardian than she was in the game, making Sam's death even more heartbreaking as Ellie feels like it was a personal failure, reinforcing Ellies survivours guilt and building on the thematic idea of failure that played such a huge role in the game.
@@lordofthebricks2818 What unmakes your argument is that the two weren't made in isolation of the other. The games have a long history with well-known, well-loved characters and the television show took the bare minimum of what makes Joel and Ellie's bond so special and diluted them to straight-to-DVD, mostly one-note characters imitating their counterparts. And concerning representation, context matters. Representation is a win provided there's narrative value in making substantial changes. People, in general, do not like the legacies of beloved characters being heavily altered for no other reason than to gain some free internet points with fringe internet communities. People will overlook this in scenarios where those legacies are shown to be respected (Miles Morales is amazing as Spider-Man, despite the fact that he's not the tried-and-true Peter Parker). Sam is already incredibly vulnerable in the games--he doesn't have the ability to fend for himself, make decisions or provide any strengths to the group. He's completely at the behest of his brother, without whom he wouldn't survive 24-hours. I'm not ridiculing the twist on making him deaf, only pointing out that what you believe the show is adding--already existed. Ellie watched over Sam in the games, too, thankful to have a friend--especially one around her age. It's hard to argue that the TV show had more impact than the game when TLOU had ample time to explore their playful bickering, bonding and shared traumas. In the show, they don't spend enough time together to get that special "Kimiko & Frenchie"-esque (a la 'The Boys') bond between native speaker and mute (even though that's more of a 'meet cute' situation). If you recall the game, Ellie believes Sam's death to be a personal failure--noting in MULTIPLE times as another person lost in the effort to get her to the fireflies. At this point I'm just rehashing why the game did a better job. In the show's defense, it's rough to compare a season of television to a fully fleshed out videogame, but as it's the comparison being made... I don't think it's even close to the same level of quality.
I’d say the reason to make Sam deaf was partly just a bit of nuance and partly to just make him seem more vulnerable, there is more of a reason Henry would worry about him constantly because he can’t hear the infected.
Only thing that bothered me about episode 3 is how long it was with the characters. We did not need an hour episode of guys kissing and smashing let’s be honest
Exactly, you will be called in bad faith for saying that. Too much time taken away from the main characters of the show . The game in my opinion did it better. You don’t know as much but the signs are there and the build up to the end where bill finds his partner is perfect and super sad. Im not saying an episode like this is bad but it certainly spends too long on side characters.
I don’t agree with the idea of Joel “taking away Ellie’s decision” at the end of the game like you mentioned. The fireflies never even gave Joel an option, let alone Ellie who was fully unconscious and hours away from being killed. Yea obviously Ellie and Joel worked their way around an entire country to find the fireflies so it makes sense that Ellie would want to sacrifice herself but let’s not forget that was never an option. The fireflies were going to kill Ellie with or without Joel’s support, so I see it as him taking the choice away from the fireflies and not Ellie. She wakes up not knowing what happened after the near drowning incident, so clearly the fireflies never woke her up to get permission 🤷
HBO’s The Last of Us was my first true introduction to the world of The Last of Us, and I have since played both Part I and Part II, but when I first saw episode 1, during Sarah’s death, I was like, “oh shit, am I gonna be able to get through this?” Because it was just that suprising, and dark for what I’d been used to
Yes. I personally think they lost the most important aspect of the game in translation to TV by cutting out a lot of the moment-to-moment survival/bonding between Joel and Ellie. In the game, these moments were portrayed in gameplay: you survive together, kill together, you hear the little remarks and comments each character makes as they start to care more for eachother. It shows you every building block of their relationship which makes the ending much more effective. In the show, it feels like they skipped from cutscene to cutscene, glossing over the important moments inbetween. It was like a dream where you jump through events with no connective tissue. And what is more baffling was that they chose to spend that time on side characters like Kathleen or Bill, which completely defeats the purpose of the story. Sure, side characters were in the game but they always served the main theme. Bill’s town in the game was the first time Joel realized that Ellie can hold her own, and he was proud of her at the end. He even says to Bill “she held her own back there” as bill laughs and tells him he’s gonna get himself killed. Bill is a mirror to who Joel will become if he doesn’t let Ellie in- an isolated, lonely and miserable man surviving just to live for nothing. I also think that Bella Ramsey is a very one-note actress who was terribly miscast. Pedro was great with the material they gave him, but they softened Joel to the point of me doubting he could have ever survived this long. He gets his ass kicked every time he leaves the house. it’s shameful
11:11 My fundamental problem with Episode 3 is that it completely misses the point of Bills character. Bill is supposed to be a cautionary tale for Joel, a representation of what he could become if he doesn't let go of his hatred and refusal to care for anyone. Not only that but Bill is alive when Joel and Ellie leave meaning the character is still around to be used later. If they really wanted to do what the show did with him then they should have waited and done this as a filler episode later in this season or sometime during season 2. Difference's likely would have had to happen anyway for the sake of adaptation but they need to be changes that add something to the characters and story being told with them, maybe this time have Joel teach Ellie how to drive after she asks him to and then have that pay off later where she has to drive them out of a dangerous situation (maybe have that be the explanation for how she and Joel get away after he's wounded and passes out). But that's just one example. I understand where you're coming from here but Episode 3 is the only one that I think changed things a bit too much, the show mostly avoids that and the changes almost always feel natural and add something to the experience but this wasn't one of them.
No, the game isn't better or worse. It is simply a different experience. The episode of the show with Bill and Frank was fantastic. Television at its best. But it wouldn't have worked as a game, and I love playing that whole section in the game. The interaction between Bill and Ellie is hilarious. Even if you only focus on those parts that are direct translations from game to show, you can't say one is always better than the other. Sometimes the game was a little better, other time seeing the live actors outshined anything they could do with the digital character animation. I missed some of the scenes from the game when watching the show, but there were additions in the series that I really wish were in the game. In the end, they are two different experiences. One is a television show where you are an observer, the other is a game where you are a participant. They are as different as a book and a movie adapted from the book.
I'd like to add a critique point for ellie and rileys episode: The flashbacks from riley were way more affective in the game also due to the frequent jumb from real time ellie desperately trying to survive and safe joel and her remembering her motivation reasons to continue. The location being vaguely the same also adds to that. In real time she's alone at a mall doing everything she can to find something helpful. She is getting flashbacks not only bc of rileys speech but also because of the mall. The ending scene of the game also feels slightly better. She is sitting on the horse and you can see on her face she has made up her mind for good. She will continue to fight for every second with Joel. I understand it wouldn't be very beneficial for the show to jumb from long ellie surviving scenes to story longterm. But it really shows the benefit of the gameplay sequences in the game and imo how much it helps with the pacing. Instead of seeing ellie desperate once (in the show) you saw her multiple times (game). And the feeling of playing joel to playing a significant smaller and more vulnerable person also helped with that feeling of helplessness.
It’s difficult to give an unbiased answer from the playerbase that experienced the game when it was the only version. Nothing will seem as distinct or impactful in comparison. I enjoyed the series and it definitely was a good stepping stone for new audiences not from a gaming demographic. I watched it with friends that were in that exact situation. I’ll take the long form, deep and gritty game version for my journey through this awesome tale. Well done with the excellent concise comparison and detailed breakdown of the two versions. It’s a rarity to have TLoU content on YT that isn’t just the whining butthurt minority that didn’t like a decision made by the creators.
I feel like one of the gaps with this show is with Joel's ruthlessness. We barely see it throughout the show and only in the final episode did we see him wiping out an entire hospital. I get the attempt at making him more human, but I feel like if they gave the show a longer run time they could have made his strength, skill, and his overall nonchalant massacre at the end make more sense while also making him more human.
@@kniko517 Exactly this, just two or three more episodes focused on Joel and Ellie and the show would be near perfect and would have captured the essence that made the 1st game so great, their relationship.
@@transooka yesirrrr!! I felt like their relationship felt a little rushed like we needed the slow moments of them just taking and bonding at least more of those moments because they’re already good ones. Would have made the finale make more sense.
I was younger when TLOU came out as a game, so didn't have the opportunity to play it. The show adapation allowed a lot of new fans to be able to experience both. I loved both, they have both amazing and unique performances. Games can be flops in terms of TV adaptations, sometimes due to the insane story, but I think what made the show work so well is that it felt real. I also love the cameos from the actors in the game.
Neil was only co director of the original game and keeps changing things to try and make the setting it his own. The big examples are the revenge plot the entire second game is built around and the infection being spread by tendrils rather than spores. Both were ideas of Neil’s that were rejected.
Yeah. He actually pitched the general story for Part 2 in like 2011. Tessa would of chased Ellie and Joel to get revenge on Joel. The people at Naughty Dog rejected it because it didn't make sense how you would manage to track someone down in a zombie apocalypse 😂
@@lesedimokgobi nope, they rejected it because Tess going from Joel's partner for many years to relentlessly tracking him down over the whole game didnt make sense.
This video is underated. As someone who has only seen the Tv show, I was still able to follow your thinking and see your points. This video essay discussing the nuances between the show and game is very effective in letting everyone who watches it understand even if they've only seen one of the two mediums for TLOU
In a nutshell, LoU game = 10/10 perfect LoU show = 8/10 almost perfect but lacked ALOT in zombies, its like, its a zombie show, but not alot of zombie fighting.
seems like most people here are coming from the perspective of experiencing the game prior, but as someone who only watched the show, I still felt deeply connected to the characters and immersed in the world.
I Can make an argument for the opening scene in the game version being better than the series version: After Sarah is shot you get the close up of both her and Joel. The one thing I think the video game does better is that it closes out everything else except for the both of them. If the background were to have steadily gone black as a spotlight were to have steadily began to shine on both Joel and Sarah, you probably wouldn’t have even noticed. Because that’s the focal point of the scene. When you move the camera over to tommy it breaks the immersion ever so slightly . It would’ve been better in the series if Joel called for help in bone-chilling cry and the scene didn’t move over to Tommy. This would still keep the focus on our father-daughter duo and make it seem like Joel is even more alone than he just became.
I think for me, the game will always be better and I don't think that is a criticsm to the show. The show was fantastic and I loved each and every episode. However, the game fundamentally plays in a way that engages you differently, something that is only achievable in video games. The fact I am Joel and have an active role in the story creates a different kind of experience that makes it practically impossible to compare the show under the same lenses. The fact I am the one connecting with Ellie and am apart of the emotional bond between her and Joel rather than being a spectator (as well as the personal nostalgia tied to the game) creates a unique experience for me that even the most flawless show could never replicate to the same degree. But I would not not hold that against the show, as it provides a different kind of experience that also could not be replicated in the game and I think it did a tv show adaption perfectly. Easily the best video game adaption I have ever seen! I love both versions but in very different ways and I see them both a masterpieces of storytelling and character writing.
The more time goes on, the more I start to think about how much the HBO version missed the landing. In the game, the short but sweet moment works because it's short and every moment is well crafted. It's not prolonged to set up the virus, that Tommy is Joel's brother or he has a daughter who cares about him enough to fix his watch by going to the clock repair store after school with students who slowly are turning infected. In the game you witness the world around you begin to crumble and it just works. Sarah's death was too dramatical and badly lit unlike the game which has this ballet aesthetic where it's a play and everything looks so pleasing. I went back to watch a clip of them being shot at and the soldier is literally "Yes sir, yes sir.., YES SIR." and then he gets ready to shoot. In the game it's done with the soldier hesitating because of his emotions "but sir there's a little girl....yes sir".
The fight scene between Joel and Ellie where she talks about him wanting to get rid of him was acted fine in the show but it absolutely pales in comparison to the scene in the game and that's what ultimately sealed it for me. A game from 2013 hit the emotional beats harder then the show ever did
@@Zorklis her casting alone will keep the show out of peoples minds as one of the greats. Total and complete stumble in casting. Thankfully I always forget she exists in the show until someone mentions her
Sick video man !! I experienced the last of us from the perspective of watching the show first as it aired , I knew the concept vaguely and how it ended but to me Pedro Pascal is Joel and Bella Ramsey is Ellie . I've watched the show at least four times now and still never played the game (though I want to) I'm really glad this video exists to give flowers to the show from a perspective that's experienced both ! There are a few things in this vid I hadn't really caught onto or thought differently of for example David , I did feel unease with him as a stranger but didn't immediately feel like he was a threat , the "he was travelling with a little girl" line was super powerful as a demonstration of his control when they almost just seemed like equals . Also , I think while heavily buffing the threat of the clickers in the series was a good choice as the narrative would've been weaker if Joel was mowing them down at every corner , their effective total abscense from most episodes was a bit of a letdown - I think it's hard to have a "people are the real monsters" conclusion , when you've barely established that the monsters ... are the monsters lmao I have no clue why the season was 9 episodes long, or why the finale was a 40 minute episode , whether it be budget or lack of confidence ... Ep. 3 is one of my absolute favourite love stories but perhaps something between it and Ep. 2 would front-load the threat of the clickers , and make Tess's death that much more impactful ? But it's so hard to say because I love Ep. 3 as it is !! Either way , again great video - the ending changing Ellie's line totally killed me
the choice they made w tess's movie death reminds me so much of the last of us 2 choice in the beginning - not everyone dies in a blaze of glory. tess's game death was fitting. ofc that badass would die taking out a FEDRA troop. but silently dying out of character, getting assaulted, before burning to death in the flame as infection takes over.. like damn.
Being able to actually play as Joel and control him gave me so much more empathy for the situation he was going through. Even when I was hitting enemies in the head with wooden planks and shooting my way through clickers, his inner turmoil about losing his daughter and gaining a new one was always in the back of my mind. Also, the gameplay made the world of The Last of Us much more vicious than the show. Unlike a lot of other shooters, the game makes you feel very vulnerable and every major section legitimately feels like a fight for your life. The show was great and added a lot to the overall story, but I’ll always value the game more due to its sharper pacing, natural charm, and the fact that I got to experience its events in a firsthand perspective.
My hope for season 2 is that they take all the Flashbacks from Part 2 of the game, or at least most of them, and make that season 2. It gives us a whole season with Joel again, gives Bella Ramsey more time to age up alittle bit, and has the chance to give us even more context that we might have missed. Maybe show the science where she gets her tattoo? And then I gives Abby time to show only her flashbacks in season 3. My idea of the perfect way to do it(Obviously just the way I hope to see it) is they use the season to build up Ellies doubts about Joel and the events at Salt Lake which ultimately culminates in the finale being their confrontation at the hospital again. Leaving it open to then start season 3 at the beginning of Part 2 of the game, now with more context, but still leaving the crucial flashback of their reconciliation after the dance.
This is why youtube commenter shouldn't be writers. Can you imagine a full season of TV thats just Ellie and joel hanging around in Jackson? No plot, no themes, just flashbacks from the game in chronological order, removing all emotional impact they had in the game. This is a bad idea, it would have horrible pacing, no stakes, and no point. The flashbacks are placed masterfully in part 2 in order to heighten the emotional impact by placing them between stressful and harrowing sequences. They provide these cracks of light in a dark, depressing world. If they were in chronological order that would be completely gone.
The fact that people are so willing to jump to an immediate conclusion, and say it SO certainly, just shows me that they missed the point of The Last of Us entirely. Whether it’s “Game 1 vs. Game 2” or “The Games vs. The Show”, the point of The Last of Us is to look beyond your immediate, more emotional conclusions and think about things critically. So many people said that TLOU2 was a “terrible game”, when they admittedly hadn’t even played the last half of the game. The sole fact that they were put in an uncomfortable position made them HATE something… and that’s literally what this franchise set out to explore, and expose. I think the writers know good and well who their audience is, and make their creative decisions almost in spite of those people who aren’t willing to try it. Hell, I would do the same. The Last of Us is a magnificent franchise, and each piece of it is great in its own way. The show is most definitely better than the game in certain instances where the game falls behind in pacing, logic, etc. but the gameplay also adds a sense of investment in the story that the show just can’t create. I feel like people who disagree are still just mad at Abby lol
Personally I liked the show, but the games are just so much better. Even when just watching playthroughs, the relationship between ellie and joel (and other characters) is so well done. In the show it feels like even after months together ellie and joel are still really akward with eachother, while in the game their conversations flow more naturally. Of course the game is way longer, allowing for more interactions, but I feel like that is something that is really missing from the show.
i think it works better for a show though. In a video game, it's easier to suspend disbelief with the amount of violence taking place as you go through section after section of swarms of infected or people. In a show, it needs to be a bit more grounded in reality and making the entire show just kill after kill won't make sense. Plus, if they sparce out the kills, each and every one has more of an impact because if it is non stop violence, after a while you would become numb to the amount of death and blood spilled. I do imagine that there will be more killing (from Ellie specifically) than season 1 as it is important to the narrative of Ellie becoming fuelled with anger and revenge but I hope they don't have her killing tens of people each episode like in the game as it will lose the emotional weight
@@leoalper4530 I don’t think they have to take out the action to have a grounded story. Violence is one theme from the games that was shown to be a necessity. It’s not like I expect to them to be like the games and take out loads of baddies. But I feel like that sense of survival violence needs to be evident.
Probably but I’m pretty sure they’ll stay true to showing the hoarde that attacks Abby, Joel, and Tommy. That would be a good way to re-establish the threat of infected early on in the season.
I recently bought a PS4 pro to play the Last of US series. (Ive always owned Xbox) Got through Part 1 in about four days, and now im playing Part 2. This whole series is an absolute masterpiece. Its deeply emotional, feels like im playing a show and not a video game. The way you go back in time to play and see characters pasts is genius. 12/10 the game is 1000× better and deeper than the show.
I don't like comparing them because it leads to competition which leads to hate. In reality both are good. It's a totally different experience watching a tv show verses playing a game. Naturally people will feel more attached when they are playing as the characters. Also, the game has been out for over a decade now so it's normal to have more of a connection to it. That's how I feel, but there was also something so special about seeing it in live action. I do like the game better, however, depending on how they handle season 2 in the show, I think it could easily surpass season 2 of the game. Tlou2 game had some flaws that the show could fix. I honestly expect season 2 of the show to be better than the game and hit harder emotionally.
Honestly, i feel that TLOU 2 is severly overlooked because it is not a bad game, it's just flawed in the structure of the story. On paper, the story of TLOU 2 is phenomenal and might even be better and more gut wrentching than the first, it's the execution that holds it back for me and makes it worse than the first game. If they simply showed Abby's backstory first spliced with scenes with Joel and Ellie and then go into her killing Joel, we would be more conflcited with it as we would sympathise with Abby and understand her grief but also be angered by her actions. That would be a whole lot better than having her framed as the antagonist, leading us to outright hating her and then forced to play 10+ hrs of gameplay with her. It's very difficult to make an audience connect and sympathise with a character AFTER we see her killing a beloved character and so brutally too. I do believe that in the show, it will shine better (even if they keep the same structure as the game) as I beleive the story in TLOU 2 actually would work better in a tv series format than a game
@@leoalper4530 emotional immaturity is a big player in a lot of the hate for TLOU2. I got tricked for two years into hating it until I sat down and watched a couple full playthroughs from non-biased players. I actually grew to love the story now.
@@Gr13fM4ch1n3 that's awesome. i definately think it's overhated. I started playing the two games a few months after the second one came out so I wasn't aware of all the backlash besides that people were dissapointed with the second one and specifically remember playing the second one for the first time without predetermined ideas about it and enjoying myself, despite its very apparent flaws. I still think the first is better purely due to execution, I mean they litterally have the highest point of tenstion (abby finding ellie) cut off for a 10+ hr glorified backstory only to come back to it later so that felt jarring especially. Again tho flawed ≠ bad just could have been better. from a gameplay perspective, it's a masterpiece tho.
Whatever you experienced first will be your preferred version. This is why most gamers are favoring the game. It’s also why book readers always say the book is better then the movie….
A 3rd option could've been to make the TV version an anthology series. Focusing on characters living in this world from various survivors point of view maybe an episode on the hunters, fireflies, or heck even the characters from the second game. Eventually this accumulates to a episode with Joel and Ellie!
It is absolutely a better game than show. The way the did the show anyway. A lot of events between Joel and Ellie that made their relationship stronger were so cheap in the show. I don't have the energy to list any of it. But I'm sure any gamer can figure that out.
Exactly. It’s like when someone asks why a novel is better than the movie/TV adaptation… it’s like… bruh, there’s so much more depth to every minor and major interaction. You know their thoughts, their nuances, their reasoning.
I liked episode 7 because it’s the dlc and did it mostly pretty well. I also appreciated the cure just like heaven rendition on the merry go round. Episode 3 is still a huge no for me because A. It feels cheap and lazy and we trade stories. The bill ellie interactions and way that we learn about frank are amazing to me. The upside down trap would have been a great oppurtunity at adding some infected that the show desperately needed a little more of. And doing some interesting cinematography to boot!
Episode 3 was beautiful... But it didn't belong in this story because that's not who Bill was. Bill would never kill himself, especially not like that.
I liked the show and would argue it’s probably the best adaptation of a video game we’ve ever had. Even though that isn’t a high bar to clear. The show also added a few things I really liked. Like that scene where Joel essentially tells Ellie she’s the reason he kept going. I’ve cooled on the show a lot since the ending of the first season. It’s not bad, I wouldn’t even call it mediocre. It’s pretty damn good, but yes the game is much more impactful. Imo.
I honestly still like the game more. but I will give credit to the show, it is fantastic and its great for people who aren't fans of games. sometimes I don't quite want to play the game so I'll start up the show and watch a few episodes, and vice versa.
Game as a medium for storytelling is extremely under appreciated. Many people still hold the perception that games are for mindless enjoyment and childish thrills. The truth is, video game is one of the most interactive and engaging method of storytelling. When a game has a well structured story, the experience will always beat that of passively watching things happen on screen
Joel's final "choice" at the hospital in the TV version contains almost none of the he's-choosing-Ellie-and-condemning-humanity weight of the game because there are so few zombies in the TV version that it doesn't really feel crucial that a cure is found. That and the fact Marlene on the show says the Fireflies have figured out why Ellie is immune, so they can just replicate that bite-right-before-birth in other pregnant women and have hundreds of Ellies. The stakes were gone on the show.
I feel like its unfair to compare the two regardless. Both are pieces of beautiful storytelling from my mind of a genius and both tell the exact same story. I dont think it should matter how the story as told as long as people can hear it. I loved having a show that I could watch with my dad to say “Hey look! Video games are really cool right?” And it made him open to watching gameplay from part 2. The point of the show wasn’t to be better than the game or to even come close. The point was to adapt the game and tell the story from a different angle and prove to the world that video game adaptations aren’t a hot pile of dog shit. I love Ashley Johnson as much as the next guy and its hard to believe that Bella Ramsey will have to live up to the emotional acting from part 2 in the second season. However, I don’t want Bella to try and be Ashley; I want to be able to see grown up Ellie in a different light and I think Bella will kill it no matter what changes are made for the show. (I’m already aware season 2 is not going to be a fan favorite considering Abby) Ashley’s Ellie and Bella’s Ellie are different in some ways just as Pedro’s Joel and Troy’s Joel are different but that doesn’t mean one is better than the other. I liked the older Joel portrayed by Pedro just like how I liked our badass Joel portrayed by Troy. You couldn’t pay me enough to pick the best Joel because they were both great. TLDR; The show and the game are two unique ways to share the same narrative from different perspectives. Some things differ slightly but that doesn’t mean that one is inherently worse than the other. Each form of medium has its strength.
Agreed! I watched the show and only recently started playing the game, but I think both are awesome! I struggle to compare the two because they’re such different experiences. Being immersed in the game is so different from watching the show, but I’ve really enjoyed both(or at least I’ve enjoyed the entire show and the two hours worth of gameplay I’ve gotten through)
I think The Last of Us show adds a lot of things I wish the game included (like Joel's discussion with Tommy in Jackson) and a few things I don't wish the game included and vice versa but overall I prefer the game. I wish the game's remake added certain elements from the show
IMO, I think the show felt a little rushed near the end. If it was a 24 episode show, I genuinely think it could’ve been on par with the game. The show was incredible and it’s a shame they didn’t get 24 episodes, hope that’s the case for TLOU2
I think the show did very much right by the game and the story. Some aspects are better in the game, some are better in the show, and some are different, but still just as good. I think that for people who can't/don't like to play games, the show is an excellent way to engage with this story. And for those of us who have played the games, it's a fun, new way to enjoy it. And, who knows? I bet plenty of people watched this and went "this is based on a VIDEO GAME?!" and went out and bought a Playstation to see what they've been missing out on when it comes to an entire medium.
I think it’s kind of like comparing a movie to a book. Of course, with more “run time,” you can do so much more. Add so many more details and reactions. All at your own pace. A game is to a series what a book is to a film, imo…. You ARE Sarah, Joel, Ellie. YOU interact with these characters, watch their bonds grow in the cutscenes and little moments during gameplay. Being a proactive part of the story changes how one engages with the story. Although, I’m not entirely sure why it feels like the performances in the game seem better than that of the show (imo).
Man, this is a superb video. Great analysis. Thank you for the content. The show for me is a 8.5/10. I really enjoyed it. Arguably the best adaptation of a video game to date.
It seems that we get rare gems of game adaptations like this that actual gives faith to the game and its story after terrible releases (cough cough halo)
I liked all the subtlety around Bill in the game. You're just chugging along, having conversations, bumping into his "partner" (key word there), then finally hitting the thought of "wait, I think Bill is gay!" when Ellie chucks out the dude mag
I think the addition of the tunnel scene in Salt Lake City would have been a good refocus on what the whole point of this journey was originally for. I feel like it could remind the audience of the real threat as seen by the fireflies. It could have also added to Joel’s push to protect Ellie at all costs. Thats just me though:)
