@@topup246 Stop posting a video link under every single comment, nobody wants to see whatever garbage content you have to offer. We know that you are just an alt account of the video you are promoting so just stop.
Best way to test would be to record the empty Line In jack in Audacity, both with and without the magic expansion card in the system, then boost the recorded silence by the same amount for both files (say, 500%). Then you should be able to clearly visualize and/or hear whether or not there is a difference.
Indeed. Hearing test like Linus did are the domain of "audiophiles" who buy 5000 USD cables. Let's do some real tests or at least get a proper control group.
@@joelr2214 LTT viewers are gamers for the most part are geeks/gamers and this shit is the kind of stuff that makes sense for audiophiles doesn't make a whole lot of sense for gamers to have and it's the kind of thing people would convince people who aren't that savy with building a gamming rig would be tricked into getting by someone because they were told that the reduction in electrical noise will make it easier for them to hear enemies' location. He tested it in a way that this video would be applicable and make the most sense to the largest demographic of his viewers.
The weird thing is is that the second speaker buzzing sound you showed as an example at the beginning actually happens when my computer is turned off. When I turn my computer on then the buzzing stop
That's normal. It's called a ground loop. When the PC is on it drives the audio cable, when its off it just leaves it disconnected. Then, the wire acts as a capacitor, an "antenna" for lack of a better word, for the 50/60hz you get into your speakers over the power supply. If you unplug it from the computer, it should make the same sound. And if you then bridge the three poles of the connector with something like a metal paper clip, the noise should be gone. Just to demonstrate the effect. I actually thought to myself while Linus said that that his explanation is nonsense.
@@ForwardBias lol thankies. I love this model. I’m also the first to animate videos with it. They are surprisingly good to animate with just being VRChat models
Oddly capacitors can be used to clean up and smooth out signals, and clean up power sources. But not normally when used out of the signal chain, it's the right idea in the wrong place to be really effective.
actually they need to be near the thing that is doing horrible power consumption, as that's at the end of the conductors pulling the current that is causing the voltage drop across the copper tracks etc.
@@youhackforme Capacitors are high-pass filters when placed in the signal line, where they're often used for decoupling and dealing with DC offsets like different ground potentials. They've probably got those capacitors bridging the voltage rails and ground. In that position they'll act as low-pass filters, smoothing out higher-frequency noise. They're going to be too far away from the actual Digital to Analog Converters to do much good though. @Meowland "Real audiophiles are better off staying away from digital." So, you're saying that instead of mixing and mastering audio on a computer, bands and composers should be what, mixing using Vinyl records and painstakingly constructed analog circuitry customized for every task? Try telling that to Hans Zimmerman or any composer these days. Mixed analog/digital circuitry is nothing new, and noise isolation between those domains is a major task of circuit board design in those environments. There is absolutely nothing wrong soundwise with using high sample-rate, digital audio for the majority of your chain and finally converting to analog right at the driver stage. That way you can get all the power, signal to noise, transmission, and ease-of-use benefits of digital. Cheap mp3/wma/youtube compression that destroys sound quality? Oh, I'm right there with you. But there are lossless formats that preserve the original audio far better than any analog signal you can create and store.
I honestly doubt all of these capacitors are even getting charged. I mean, filtering capacitors are meant to be *directly* next to the sensitive, power hungry parts. While the flashy caps on this this are dead center of the board... for you know... looks?
They are not supposed to just be near the power hungery parts, they need to be right next to the chip's pins to work. This is where linus was also wrong, they are in pretty much every circuit that uses chips
better testing method: run the output audio through an amp and then to an oscilloscope/spectrum analyzer. If you don't have one, then record it with a good quality audio interface and open it up in Audacity to see the waveforms
No self-respecting audiophile would ever admit that electrical signals are susceptible to measurement or analysis. (Someone needs to point out that the act of recording sound with a microphone is itself the act of measuring sounds waves. And any property of sound that might exist in an audio recording can be analysed.)
Or at least use powered speakers with a motherboard audio out that isn't well isolated from noise. I can hear my HDD and gpu churning away through my speakers just fine. It would be so much easier for the viewer to hear what electrical noise can sound like through speakers.
Having a 450$ Motherboard from Asus which already has one of the best audio shieldings out there might not get the point. I have that board too, and it has one of the best voltage controllers from Asus. This board corrects all the noise all by itself easily. Maybe get a 50$ or 150$ Mother Board without great audio shielding and see if it helps there :)
@@AsbestosMuffins aaaactually, it can. You should always place all the filtering as close to the drawing component as possible. Having extra capacitors that are literally physically (and electrically as well obviously) closer to the sound card, and I'm imagining someone plugging this right over/under a proper PCI/PCIe sound card, can indeed filter a lot more noise than if it wasn't there. It is true tho, that it's still too far from the components anyway, that should already have proper filtering anyway. It's rather pointless even if theoretically working.
I love how LTT can get me to watch a review for product I've never heard of, and would never consider buying, and still make it entertaining and educational
Just buy USB headphones and problem is solved. That's what I did for my old PC that had this issue. It has "driver" outside the PC, on the cable thingy.
@@WyvernDotRed unfortunately it never would. The problem is that you can't just insert a noise filter anywhere in the circuit and expect it to affect all elements. This is the equivalent to putting a water filter on your sink's drain and expecting cleaner water from the faucet.
@@WyvernDotRed A lot of "ifs" in that statement. IF the capacitors are bad (cheap chinese quality and not good chinese quality), then you have a tech-looking thing in your PC... IF you put it in and leave it there. Most modern motherboards are made to fix many power alternating problems. A good external battery back-up prevents your PC from coming to a complete stop while running and a great one could likely fix your audio problems due to your building's current. A DEPENDABLE PSU in your PC is the foundation on which your PC sits and can not be understated, but many DIY PCs probably do. :)
I think perhaps the solution you're looking for is actually an in-line isolation transformer on your audio line out. I have a noise problem with some of my audio hardware when my laptop is plugged in, this was the ultimate solution to that problem. Basically, it filters out DC noise allowing only AC through (audio signals are very lower power AC waves). It is important to note that not all 1:1 audio isolation transformers are created equal, with the better sounding ones with the least loss of quality costing a bit of money.
They’re a Chinese company, scamming is the name of the game over there. You want the late-stage capitalism that idiots bleat on about in the west? Look to China.
“There was a time, when onboard audio was so bad....” sigh, thanks Linus, way to make me feel my age.... I still find it difficult to talk myself into using onboard audio thanks to having been here for the pc-speaker, and Sound Blaster 16 days of “audio”
Card that he just dropped, heavily. I mean to be honest, if there's no problem to fix its existence is not needed regardless, but it's not like there was any other possible result given that information.
Depends on what the card should solve. There was also a chance that this card inserted causes issues which would fix the „Can’t find a problem“ part. :)
"We built a worst case scenario!" No...no you didn't, Linus. Come back when you have a PC where you can hear the mouse move through the headset. It's maddening. This video is dumb.
Gotta love that it has both an x16 and an x1 edge connector. As if an x1 wouldn't work in an x16 slot, especially one with _no_ actual PCIe lanes used.
Instead of spending 40 dollars on a sound reducing card, I bought an LTT water bottle and doused my entire system with water and eliminated all of the noise.
It is not just onboard audio you are limited to. I remember using the audio on gpu to play games because I hooked the onboard to some musical equipment. The gpu audio was great too.
9:45 I feel so old that I remember when PCs didn't come with any onboard audio aside from a beeping speaker. Wing Commander with beeping speaker vs SoundBlaster was an even bigger change than this youngster is talking about.
May I just humbly count myself to the ppl that remember such stuff aswell, despite being only 26 years old? I grew up with Windows 3.11 and a built-in pc speaker that made the sounds. And the turbo button!!! From 22 to 28 MHz! :D
@@MC_Papphead Funny thing, turning 'on' the turbo button actually slowed down your PC and turning it 'off' had it run at its normal speed. Sometimes it was the opposite.
Well *_I_* remember when my family didn't even _have_ a PC. Wing Commander with a beeping speaker vs. an empty desk was an even bigger change than _you're_ talking about.
"What made Elfidelity think that this was going to work?" - Making money from gullible people. ANY component that can be part of an audio system is ripe for the snake oil merchants - from stupidly expensive audio cables to mains leads and my pet hate - audiophile Ethernet switches. Yes - audiophile Ethernet switches. Utter bullshit. The solution here is flawed - for a filter to be effective, it has to be put between the PSU and device that you are trying to filter noise going into. This doesn't do that.
The only thing this can do is generate a counter wave to the noise. That has to be PRECISELY tuned to do anything. Which is why it’s added to headphones instead of speakers.
"Coil whine" can be generated from vibrations caused by unwanted harmonics coming in the power line to the rotating motor, that cause it to "shake" in certain directions. In very high frequencies, it generated a bit of a whine, as well.
"The youngsters out there might not remember this, but there was a time when on-board audio was so bad that a sound card was an integral part of any decent rig." TIL that the internal beeper apparently counts as "on-board audio".
As a professional audio engineer, I can say for sure that the external audio interface is the way to go. Make sure to get one that has its own power adapter and doesn't rely on bus power via USB, as that will often carry the same noise from the motherboard to the interface. Other common causes of noise include: having devices plugged into different circuits from each other, having A/C power cables running near your audio signal cables, having strong RF signals near your audio cables, having electrically noisy devices on the same circuit as your audio setup (e.g. fan, heater, florescent light, vacuum cleaner, etc.).
> having strong RF signals near your audio cables Which is why front audio can be stupidly noisy on some cases. Unshielded cables that sometimes have to run right by (electrically) noisy components.
Balanced cables also help. I had a ton of noise from my Scarlett and I didn't realize I wasn't using balanced cables. When I switched it was barely a tiny hiss with my speakers at FULL volume.
Lol, yeah I was totally confused as a kid, when I bought a small USB-powered external soundcard for my PC and was hearing the GPU's massive coil whine in my headphones through the USB soundcard. ^^ I also did the "having devices plugged in to different circuits from one another's" thing (apparently, though they were in the same room) and got a really loud hum on my stereo which I used as PC speakers through it's line in. A groundloop filter worked fine and eliminated the hum entirely. Later I added another input through a splitter cable and connected an older 2.1 PC speaker system, that I got as a gift to the headphone output of the stereo in order to replace its shitty speakers. That setup had me using three groundloop filters to make it work, but it was practical and did sound really good XD
@@leafsoup Yeah balanced cables help a LOT. Onboard PC audio is never balanced, I don't know why, probably to keep manufacturing costs as low as possible.
Don't you need a balanced signal to gain any benefit from balanced cables? And is a balanced signal normally available on a PC let alone an inverter (op-amp or equivalent) on the receiving end to flip the polarity on one of the signal wires and balance the load on the two signal wires?
I'd love to see a repeat of a test like this, but with a setup where cross talk is confirmed to be a problem and/or an oscilloscope is hooked in to see the effect.
same, or maybe with a pci powered gpu. MANY electronics are under-filtered. I've soldered up some LC filters and ground loop isolators , and terminating resistors for off the shelf audio equipment and seen a huge difference.
I had a motherboard that made a huge noise on the audio output. So I aquired a 10€ USB Soundcard (TerraTec Chipset, I think) and the difference was like night and day. Since they don'T last longer than 3 Months (Solderings break) I got me an external Soundblaster "Card". So happy with it!
Linus you plugged the headphones into the "line out" jack at the back of the motherboard, that one is meant for active speakers or amplifiers. You need to plug sensitive earphones like IEM's into the front panel HD audio jack and then you'll hear a ton of noise. Also you should try using RTX GPU's for the test as they are notorious for corrupting the power line and introducing a lot of noise into audio equipment including microphones.
I'm confused, if plugging it into a front jack causes noise that is solved by plugging into a line out jack on the motherboard directly, what's the point of spending an extra $40 when you'll have to plug into the back to use that solution anyway?
Xanthelei shortness of cables, or, if you’re like me, the ability to switch between speakers and headphones without having to constantly go behind your tower to switch cables out. Not that I would buy this thing, I just bought some $15 usb sound card off Amazon
Yes, IEMs would be a better choice. He needs something with a low impedance and high sensitivity to bring out noise since the lower amplifier gain is what usually raises the noise floor to audible levels. Those Grados are 32ohm and 100db/mw which is still pretty low impedance and fairly high sensitivity, but IEMs are often even moreso.
The reason why the front IO sounds garbage is because they allways sell them with crappy unsheilded cables that pick up all the noise from everything in the case.
Why isn't there an oscilloscope stuck on the audio output and why aren't you running solid frequencies to really see if there is a difference? But yes this component is a waste of $.
@@georgf9279 Oh... what's it called again? Linus' random bullshit? "Tech" is right in the middle of the name. Go ahead an r/whoosh and pretend you were joking instead of being a fanboi with a weak defense.
It was only this year that I learnt that one of the points of optical audio (toslink), was that it doesn't create an electrical connection. So you can truly isolate your components.
Why the fuck would that be necessary , I’m not going to buy it and say “finally, I can use my oscilloscope to see the minuscule results. He’s reviewing it like a consumer.
@@mooplex4466 What I want to see is if it can filter out the noise that is caused by listening to audio from a device that is being charged/powered by USB.
like that "The Photostick" scam? Old sandisk, and other flash drives rebranded to The Photostick with some software that find all photos on your pc and copies them to the same folder on the flash drive? and that is better organization than having them categorized on your pc or mac? Plus all review videos are basically how to use videos! No wonder they get advertised only on android browsers (google ads are infested with fraud advertising)!
Thank you Linus for doing what you do. Today is my birthday and I've been really sad for a while and feel really lonely. You keep my spirits up when I'm low and I'd really love to meet you 💓like today is my birthday and I worked and spent most of it alone.... your videos made me feel better and is going to do like every night and help me sleep. Thank you
I see your next birthday is soon. So, in advance: everything the best and take care of yourself, Joshua! Also, if I may propose - look for social events near you or if you can't find any, do one yourself. Like cleaning up park or something :) You'll meet a new people, maybe you'd find some sense in social work.
@@cURLybOi except the filter has to be in-line to really do something. That said, I've actually seen a GPU damage the onboard audio of a motherboard, so that was fun.
@@InfernosReaper you are probly right. i have behringer hd400 filter between my sound interface and powered speakers to get rid of 2080ti whine bleeding there via usb
This is precisely the time to drag out a S/N meter and an oscilloscope to compare noise. Your team uses chase cameras to objectively measure monitors, why shouldn't you try for objective metrics here too?
i will be ordering the book very soon. have an 8 month old daughter and son due in may so books for them are something we need. love you brother keep up the great work.
I remember the days of Sound cards. Back when i got my first sound blaster, i literally had now idea how bad onboard audio was till i heard it through the card.
Even today's onboard sound is not that nice, just the las tinny bit of quality is not needed by the generation mp3 compressed boomboom music... Onboard is just fine but not good
The Onboard of my Z170 Pro Gaming is even inferior to my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty which I literally got from a scrapyard and is from 2008...
"The youngsters might not remember a day when onboard audio was horrible" I remember a day when computers didn't come with audio out of the box and not a single machine had onboard audio. :P
@@thoughtlesskills It's called a Piezo Beeper and yeah I do suppose early IBM and Tandy machines used those but they didn't have dedicated audio cards and it's not quite the same as a Sound Blaster. lol They were primarily there for diagnostic reasons.
