i didn't know this was even a thing, always knew it was half french, half italian. Borders in Europe are designed following natural barriers so it makes perfectly sense to be like that
How border are design to ? Look at nothern part of France lool. Belgium literally is inside natural french border. A part of Netherland too. Luxembourg too. Little part of Germany too World isn't simple as that. Mont Blanc fully was in savoie territory. Savoie was given to France
@@gringologie9302 in fact belgium Is half ethnically french. You are talking about a geographical area with no natural barriers wich has been a contended territory and at war for centuries lol, this area was choose to place the european parliament for this reason, to mantain peace especially between Germany and France
Italians share things when it suits them ...in this case the "let's share it" is not generous as it takes from the current French territory . The mont Blanc has been French for a long time. Before that it belonged to savoy. thus it Was never technically Italian. The Italian part of the mount blanc belongs to the Val d'Aoste and un itself it is a French speaking region within Italy. Which was reattached to Italy in a very debatable manner. So the debate could be to ask Italy to give up this French region. Let's be generous. Let's ask Italy to give half of the Val d'Aoste .. And then there will be no argument about the mont blanc. And yes, the occupation of France on 1940 is a very good argument too to cool off these idiotic Italian claims.
@@sylvaincroissant7650Valle d'Aosta is not a French speaking region, it's a Francoprovençal speaking region. Also French speaking does not imply France gets to claim it. Belgium and Switzerland exist.
@@diocanaja no. It is a French speaking region. And to this day French is an official language of this semi autonomous region. there have been recents efforts to Italianize the region though. Fair game. Francoprovençal is spoken there, but is not an official language. French is. Now if you look at the comments you will see that people also claim that Corsica is Italian and not French because the Corsican dialect resembles Italian so you can't have it both ways... The links of the Val d'Aoste to France is quite old actually and is not just a language thing. But nevertheless, the claim of the Mont Blanc itself by France is because it was always part of Chamonix, on all our maps. There are mountains everywhere over there anyway. This Italian claim is quite silly. You keep your mountains and we keep ours. There was also a thing about the French losing their version of the treaty of Turin and that somehow is a French fault. It turns out it was stolen/destroyed by the Germans during the occupation of France. And we still have a photography of the document anyway.
This video lacks a fundamental evidence that resolves the case in Italian favor. During the treaty of Turin (1860) the Italian government gave the administrative region of Savoy to France and the border between the Valle d’Aosta and Savoy was in the middle of Monte Bianco. Then after WW2 the french treaty of Turin was lost and then the French government started claiming jurisdiction on the top of Monte Bianco due to an earlier treaty made by Napoleon in 1797. This of course was a ridiculous claim made by the French government to obtain popularity, and today the top of Monte Bianco has Italian infrastructures on it. Please if you read this, Politics with Paint, make it the pin comment. By the way just saying, even the map of NATO has the mountain top divided in half between Italy and France.
If I remember correctly only the french documents of the treaty got lost after WW2 while the Italian ones still exists, but the french simply don't care and pretend that the treaty doesn't exist anymore just because they lost the documents. It's like if someone refused to pay the bills because they've lost them, it makes absolutely no sense.
But it's simple... why don't we share it ? I'm French and not gonna lie, the Italians had a good idea when they said it was split in two. Mont Blanc and Monte Bianco 🇫🇷🇮🇹👍
it's based on the definition of the border, choosing montains isnt as simple as you think, they can be multiple factors that you can choose from (peaks, rivers, etc), and then there the variables.
@@Alleniro Honestly calling French people ''froggies'' is kinda cringe, i live in France and NEVER have i seen a single soul eat frogs, snails or anything related to theses in restaurants by the way i agree, i support Italians cause this border just looks ugly and the Italians' are better
I'm French and I never knew there was such a dispute, we always talk about the "French Mont Blanc" and the "Italian Mont Blanc" to talk about the different parts of the mountain
the video is wildly inaccurate on many points. pretty sure the dispute is over the summit, the french claim is not that the entire mountain is theirs. also "Savoy-Sardinia" was never a thing, it was Sardinia-Piedmont, the Kingdom of Naples hadnt been a thing for decades at the time of Garibaldi's expedition of the thousand and the french had nothing to do with Veneto, italians annexed it after the austro-prussian war.
I even, in Italy, neve heard about it. If exist a dispute like that should be something extremly uninportant and this is why i stopped the video after 1 min. It's pointless even because we are talking about interna EU borders
I think it's important to underline that Aosta is a semi-autonomous region. This is highly respected by the Italian government who maintain limited control over the region's governance. The area functionally behaves as laid out by the Italian government though as far as the perception on the ground. The border crossings at the tunnel, service providers and signs displaying official authority contacts make is seem that way. The summit and main tourist attractions are largely operated by the Italian side in Courmayeur, Aosta
Italian government: Monte Bianco is split between you and us Italian people: eh, what the big guy said French people: Mont Blanc is split between us and them The entirety of NATO: your border splits Mont Blanc in half A treaty from 1860: the mountain is split French government: NuH-Uh!
My old Roman great-great grandfather Cato said 2000 years ago that the Alps are the wall of Italy. And he was very wise and was always right, and that meant that the Alps have always belonged to Italy.
"Why Italy wants France to Return half of Mont Blanc" France cant return nothing that they dont have, the mountain is of both, France can say whatever they want but the international community is allineated with Italy.
The valid treaty is the one following the cession of Savoy in 1860 in which the summit of Mont Blanc is halfway between the two states. This was the last treaty signed since following the end of World War II Italy has cedes some lands to France but none of them was on Mount Blanc. So the real border is the one of 1860 when thr borded was on the top od Mountain
A che ci sei metti Malta, Canton Ticino, Dalmazia. Venezia Giulia, Istria, Albania, Tripolitania, Cirenaica, Etiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Gibuti e Tiensin e faciamo 31.
Continents are not clearly defined even as a concept, meaning that really you could even say that mount Everest is the tallest mountain of Oceania and you'd still be right
Why? There’s no reason to fight, because the mountain is split in two with the Treaty of Turin in 1860… and it doesn’t matter that France says “we lost our copy of the treaty during WW2”, in the hope that they can go back to the Napoleonic maps and try to steal someone else’s land yet again. Saying that a treaty isn’t valid just because you lost your copy, is as idiotic as throwing away your heating bill and then refusing to pay by saying that you owe no money for heating.
@@kinggeedorah8303 you can cope and puke as much as you want but those territories still belongs to France now and its certainly doesnt seem like its gonna change anytime soon
The French and the Italians send their very best close-quarters combatant to battle on the mountaintop to boost tourism for both sides, whoever's country wins owns all of the mountain for 4 years. If it is a draw, the whole mountain goes to Switzerland for 4 years until combatants can reconvene.
I'm Italian and i've never heard about this dispute before this video. I've always thought about the Monte Bianco as a splitted mountain, "more or less" half french and "more or less" half italian. But the fact that nor the French or Italian people are awared of it, shows how much they care
As far as I know, the dispute is whether the border pass through the main summit of Mont Blanc or through the highest subsummit Mont Blanc de Courmayeur, which is ~50m below and a few 100s meters away, a flat saddle separating the 2. This last summit is the one visible from Courmayeur, and not the main summit. It is also a rocky summit, while the main summit is only ice/snow. The key point on the treaty of 1860 is whether the border follow the ridge, as visible from Courmayeur, or through the watershed ridge, the redaction is unclear and the maps of the time, not so precise. Besides, due to continuous evolution of the snow/ice cover, the ridges from the main summit always change whereas the ones from the Mont blanc de Courmayeur do less (when rocks fall). Putting a border on a changing glacier is not the best idea when you can use a rocky ridge instead😀.
@@ryanbrimson8238 woah, pal, it’s just a fact that Italy is way cooler than France. My opinions aren’t automatically factual, it just so happens that a fact and my opinion are side by side
@@ryanbrimson8238 ok, dude. There’s not a single reason whatsoever to get all feisty. I’m sorry that you couldn’t tell but I’m making a joke bub. You have no reason to be all upset. If you do, I genuinely need to hear it. Not once in my post did I say the French were snobs, not sure where you got that from. For your last section, I had no clue that was the case. You’re really saying a country doesn’t get half a mountain because it’s cooler? Really? My whole geopolitical understanding is upside down. In my opinion, I think Italy is a cooler country, that’s entirely on personal taste. Henceforth, I make that comment. I have no clue where you got the idea I was being serious from
@@battlepans1927 I’m actually sorry for my comment, it was rude and stupid. i knew you were joking of course but as a french guy I’m just so fed up at this point of seeing people hating on my country and people, that even a joking comment like this gets me wound up. Have a good day anyway
I'm both italian and french. Never heard in my life about such a "dispute". I've always heard people referring to the italian and french sides of monte bianco. I don't think it's a big deal as it's described
@@romaingillet2526 nope, Savoy took Sicily but exchanged it with the kingdom of Sardinia that was in Neapolitan hands, so just to have a Kingdom title they renamed them Kingdom of Sardinia, Piedmont was a principality
i never knew about this dispute, most prople in France think the montain is half french half italian, at least that is what i have been told as a kid (french family with some italian ancestry) I wouldn't mind french authorites aknowledging what everybody seems to know.
As an Italian, I just think it's unfair that France doesn't get to fulfil its claims. Sure, historically, it would make sense, but so would the island of Corsica, and yet nobody would doubt it is a rightfully French island
@@lamouettegaming I will call smart as sh..t. Materazzi did that to get Zidane angry, and that worked flawlessly. It's no more and no less a smart tactic that any worlds Defender use, since the dawn of time and also in this days. It's the midfielder/striker that should be smarter than the defender and do not fall in hos provocations.
Fun fact: The Mona Lisa was not stolen, but sold by Leonardo himself, it was commissioned by the french. The funny thing is someone tried "stealing" it to bring it back to Italy once.
The Mont Blanc massif is indeed shared by 3 countries, but the Swiss have never had a claim to the tallest summit itself, which is what the video is talking about.
Let's put this way. Why all mountain peaks on the border are split in two by the border except for Monte Bianco? It doesn't make any sense right? Let's just call it the usual French grandiosity...
Now now, bossy and spoiled? Oh i fully agree, but a passion for cultural appropriation? Tssk how rude, an Obsession would be the correct word, you WILL give us your food recipe and we WILL adopt it as our own and upgrade it into its own thing
@@lolloblue9646 we dont even need to, Americans are probably going to call it french at one point anyway even when its not and we'd only be like "not really the case but we dont really care either way, like yey extra credits for something we didnt even do"
@@zeniith there’s a difference France occupied those regions without any French in it. While Savoy and Nizza had many ethnically Italians which you French can’t even deny since Garibaldi was from Nice
@@Boretheory savoy had some scattered italo-arpitans but they were mostly bilingual with french and italian was their second language. Nice however was 90% italian, and in 1870 garibaldi actually won the local elections and went on to represent the region in parliament. His requests were ignored and italians were either killed or deported while parisians were moved to nice en masse to change the local majority. Fun fact nicois(nizzardo) is a dialect of ligurian (of you are italian) or occitan (if you are french). The french changed the spelling rules of the dialect to be more french live "today" was "tuggiù" (still pronounced like this) but the french tought it should be spelled "toujou" to be closer to the french "toujours"
The treaty of Turin says the border is on the closest ridge to Italy... so the border is on the Mont Blanc of Courmayeur, and not the Mont Blanc. The italians are wrong.
As a German, I can only say, Monte Bianco is definitely Italian. If we can't have it, the frogeaters can't have it as well haha. (Not meant offensive ;D, but it is italian)
@@florianbarkowski6856 Thousands of documents were lost or destroyed when french administration left Paris just before nazis arrived in Paris in 1940. And other thousands of documents where lost or destroyed by german administration when nazis left Paris in 1944. So who really lost it,frog eaters or fritz? nobody knows... Still,i don't understand why everybody talks about this lost,as Italy provided to France a duplicata 30 years ago. A joint commission studied this map,and BOTH italian and french experts concluded that it was impossible to set a border with this map,as this map was drawn before any topographic survey was made. But it's interesting to know that when it's about stealing french land,the Germany/Italy axis still exists. Sadly,some countries will never really change...
The most elementary _common sense_ says that the border is along the watershed of the Alps. 🏔 *Against **_common sense_** fights* a disease that affects part of the French: the *_grandeur!_*
i thought Savoy was just the name of the family ruling the kingdom, never heard the kingdom called "savoy-sardinia" ive only ever known it as piedmont sardinia
@@NoName-hg6cc everyone can have a opinion if it has logic, it was sold by Genoa in 1767 if I'm correct. They couldn't handle Corsica so we did.. if they revolted against a Italian nation it doesn't certainly mean they wanna go back, why don't you go for nice ?
@@Somegoodperson The agreement was French would help Genoa in return for a compensation and if Genoa could't pay they would give Corsica, too bad French didn't keep their part of the agreement And the Corse hero said they are Corse and Italian...not French
@@NoName-hg6cc did Genoa paid ? And yes, the Corsican hero was rejected by his Italian colleagues when he camed back and tried to revolt. That's why he Instead revolted in France and becamed the French emperor, he is French.
French here. Italians are apparently very envious of that piece of mountain while we French basically don't care about that rock. Only one side is 'reigniting' this unimportant 'dispute'.
Abbiamo già dato con la perdita di Nizza, Savoia, Briga, Tenda, e gli altri territorio, per non parlare della Corsica. Il Monte Bianco si dice di dividerlo, i francesi lo vogliono tutto per loro, a quale compromesso dovremmo scendere ulteriormente? Non sarebbe un compromesso, sarebbe perdere ancora una volta tutto e basta.
Just to clarify, Italians don't hate the French we just consider them to be snobs mainly because of Parisians' reputation worldwide. Some brain-dead Italians argue that the Gioconda, Corsica and Savoia should be returned to Italy cause in their opinion France stole them but that's just nonsense and no-one in their right mind supports those outlandish claims. That being said France does have quite an attitude, the French never really got past their imperialist ideas and to this day keep on a almost colonial grasp on Africa with consequences affecting everyone in Europe, they insist in somewhat extreme policies regarding minorities which lead and are leading to almost cultural genocidal results, Corsica being the main example, and generally the French maintain a militaristic sentiment almost unique to them in the EU. This French "grandeur" is also shown in the Monte Bianco issue since even though there are official documents splitting the Mountain in two, mainly the Treaty of Turin from the year 1860, the French still insist they own basically the entire thing, as an EU enthusiast I hope the issue will be soon settled but a bit of a collaborative attitude by the French would be much appreciated, maybe while we are at it we could also solve the Sardinia waters controversy since once again France is acting like Sardinia isn't an island capable of exercising a marine border in the Mediterranean.
There were no genocidal attitude in Corsica ? The region maintains an autonomous status. Although I agree with the other things you mentioned. Yes, it would be easy to find a compromise. I personnaly think sharing is the right solution, it would also prove that two nations can be friends. A french Mt Blanc is acknowledging of the local realities.
@@crkcrk702 Corsicans are asked by the government to unify into French culture proper, their language is dying and their culture with it, doesn't matter if it's an autonomous region if they can't act like it. Corsica is basically living the same horrible fate Occitania went through.
@@crkcrk702 I'm not talking about independence, that's not my point, what I'm saying is France should protect and encourage cultural diversity within non French proper regions. Italy values all of its dialects and outright recognise tongues such as Sardinian as proper languages which are for example even learnt in school and read on textbooks.
@@lamouettegaming Oe mais on renforce notre image pas très flatteuse, le mieux c'est de les ignorer, mm si moi aussi ça me fait mal qu'on se fasse insulter h24 parfois sans raison
Quoi ? J'ai juste dit que la zone contesté devrait devenir un pays indépendant comme "liberland" (Je croit que c'est le nom) C'est tout ce que j'ait faite xD (Et dire que la Joconde a apparemment été donner a la France par de Vinci,mais ça c'est quelq'un qui l'a dit dans les coms ,(un Italian) donc je suppose qu'iel a raison
Mountains are always shared when borders run through the watershed, so the French position doesn’t make any sense. And there are treaties which state that Mont Blanc is shared.
The French copies of the Treaty of Turin maps were burned by the Nazis (or conveniently lost?) in Paris. The Italian maps are here in Turin. All the French have to do is come and look at them. The "dog ate my homework" excuse is being used for a land grab. All along the border of the Alps, the high points are used as the border. In fact, Italy and Switzerland have been adjusting borders as glaciers melt and the highest points have changed. Not long ago, a building (i.e., Rifugio Guide del Cervino, ) has been slowly moving into Switzerland.
there is no real dispute nice is French and France....honestly there are areas in the northern most areas of italy that austria could claim with some legtimacy
Considering it was the Italians (Sardinians) who ceded the territory to France, they are the ones who would best know the borders of the territory they agreed to cede. What France is doing is claiming that the Italians ceded more territory than they agreed to.
This is a stupid argument. Nations have often argued with obvious deception against clauses they considered unfair, or tried to change their scope years after ratifying a treaty.
I don't know if it could work, but maybe it could be like the Pheasant Island that is shared by France and Spain : half the year, France manages it and the other half it's Spain. As a French i didn't heard about this situation until a few days ago, but i feel it is really dumb as a conflict. Love to my Italian brothers 🇫🇷🤝🇮🇹 hope a solution will be find.
No. Andorra was a principauty, always special statut. Both France and Spain wanted it, both had it. But legally, nor France nor Spain could claim it for himself. So we shared it on good intelligence. Mont Blanc is different. Was totally in savoie territory. Savoie was given to France, and so mont blanc. Doenst give a clue that some Italians farmers and so later tourism exploitation didn't respect the treaty. Law is law. Both french and Romans know that. Maybe nothern Italians tend to forget.
@@gringologie9302 only problem: treat of Turin. If France lost it's copy it's not italian fault, and French cannot use the Treat of Cherasco as a proof, considering that every Napoleonic conquistsl was canceled with the Restauration, so it is not valid. Mont Blanc/Monte Bianco is both italian and French, that's it
Signori se volete fare VISUALIZZAZIONI ben venga ma l argomento è chiuso e non ce nessun dubbio che la cima del bianco sia italo francese e che il confine passi a quota 4810. LA LEGGE INTERNAZIONALE PARLA. IL CONFINE È REGOLATO DAL TRATTATO DI TORINO 1860. QUESTO E ANCORA VALIDO PER ENTRAMBE LE NAZIONI E AFFERMA CHE IL CONFINE PASSA SULLA CIMA DEL MONTE BIANCO A QUOTA 4810. PUNTO. ARGONENTO CHIUSO
Savoy its still Italian, you can speak an Italian dialect in Monaco even today, same with Corsica, France has not only stolen part of the Italian cuisine but also a lot of Italian territories
That's a bit disingenuous before the area of Savoy became French there was a referendum where close to 95% of the local population chose to become French. As for the Nice county Garibaldi wasn't happy about it but it happened nevertheless. To say that France stole these beautiful terrirories is a bit disingenuous these cessions happened under the full agreement of the Kingdom of Piemont-Sardaigne which owned the land and with French support (in exchange for Savoy and Nice) against Austria would go on to unify Italy.
@@french907 we will have to check the veridicity of these claims, as said still today Monaco speaks an Italian dialect and Corsica wants more independence, we have seen clashed and we have seen how the French government has dealt with these requests, do you know why? Cause they are not French in Corsica, they are Italian!
@@danp420 Speaking an italian dialect doesn't mean much You speak about an italian dialect in Monaco but there's also a mixed Franco-Italian language in the Val d'Aoste region, I know this because I live in French Savoy and went on a cultural exchange in school with another school in the Val d'Aoste Courmayeur I think it was. As for Corsica my government doesn't always act perfectly but so does every state in Europe with an independence referendum. Additionnaly only a few Corsicans want independance not an actual majority of the population living there.
Mont Blanc is french, since 1492 when Antoine de Ville for the King of France Charles VIII, climb it and claim it. Beside at that time France had some territories in Piedmont. Where was Italia? nowhere to be found on a map or politicaly. Like Germany, Italy claims territorry she never possessed.
@Thibault le Tricheur - You are mistaken: Antoine de Ville climbed Mont Aiguille in 1492.... not Mont Blanc! Mont Blanc was first ascended in 1786 by M. Balmat and Dr. Paccard, who were (guess what?) subjects of the King of Savoy and Sardinia, indeed Doctor Paccard had obtained his medicine degree at the University of Turin.
@@NoName-hg6cc Non diciamo cavolate. La Francia aveva una sua cultura dominante, quella parigina, ma, a differenza di quella italiana, che era consensuale, la cultura francese era imposta con la forza dalle truppe reali e dai funzionari centrali, a danno di altre grandi culture dell'esagono, come l'occitana.
I'm from Chamonix in france, the direct city at the feet of the MT Blanc, they've always told me that mountain is ours (( french revlotion intesify), I learned later that there is a dispute for whom as the Italian part, tbh I don't really care, but I know my mom who's a ski teatcher rather fight italians than proclaiming is a european moutain
Give back Italy their old borders of savoy and nice, including these lands, it was the greedy French who want the whole mountain and I think France needs to learn a lesson
I'm from nice, I am half Italian (I'm originally from Italian family) and we are better in France, the majority speakers are French technically France never stole it it was made with a deal and a agreement signed by Italy, we decided to help Italy in exchange of some old land we had In napoleonic wars and they accepted
@@GabrieleZecchini02 this is literally the scientific consensus. The border between Europe starts in the Arctic ocean, follows the Ural mountains and the same river up until the Caspian sea and then the northern slopes of the Caucasus along the watershed that separates the Kuban river and its tributaries from the other rivers in the Caucasus plains if Georgia and Azerbaijan, which remain in Asia. That's why Georgia was not admitted into the EU.
@@NoName-hg6cc France is originating from the Franks, a Germanic tribe, so yes France without Italy did and would exist. That's like saying Germany without Italy wouldn't exist.
Before asking France, the Sardinian authorities where on the way to make a pact with Prussia to crush Austria from North and South and do all the indipendence war with them, but as you know the Prussian only joined Italy side during the third war of indipendence. Also without Romans, the Frank state couldn't be in existence 'cause at it's foundation it heavily relied on Roman infrastructure and technology, like every other state after the Roman Empire. With that said, White Mount should be divided beetween Italy and France. End of the story
