Is this why there is no new compact Micro Four Thirds camera? 

Does what I said make any sense at all? 😅What price would you pay for a nice new compact micro four thirds camera? What are the specs you want for the next new compact micro four thirds from OM system or Panasonic?

I have always said that the major advantage of MFT is not the smaller body, but rather the smaller lenses.

Yes, we WANT a new small camera M4/3 ! 🫠

Wise words Richard. Heat and power are really limiting factors. That said, I'd still like to see an S9 sized body for M43 with the G9 II sensor and a viewfinder. PS - still loving the shirt!

I’m coming to the conclusion that my G85 is the last M43 camera that I’ll ever own. Nothing Panasonic has made since holds any interest for me.

The biggest m43 killer isn't full frame, it's actually 1" sensor smartphones and small apsc cameras. For photography purposes, it's hard to convince people to buy Olympus and Panasonic m43 compared to smaller Fujifilm cameras. Even Sony, Nikon or Canon's apsc offer better versatility when you factor in options from Tamron, Sigma, and Viltrox. Therefore I believe Panasonic should just focus on video and Olympus should focus on macro, that's the main reason people buy them for.

Both Olympus and Panasonic made smaller cameras but no one bought them. I really do believe that if they were to do so again the people clamouring for them wouldn't buy them citing they were too expensive, too crippled in their features, etc etc. When the EP-5 came out no one bought it so it ended up being heavily discounted at a loss. The Pen F was introduced to address the criticisms and while it didn't tank as badly as the EP-5 it still wasn't a profitable camera. Panasonic made a premium compact in the form of the LX100 they ceased it because it didn't sell. Funnily enough Leica have persevered with it under their label and the latest model is sold out due to high demand.

Great explanation from an engineer’s point of view. The reality is that photographers do want a compact body with interchangeable lenses and are willing to sacrifice certain features to get it. What are they NOT willing to sacrifice? IBIS, RAW, great AF, a flip up/down rear LCD, EVF, and 24MP sensor. Will they be using that camera for wildlife? Probably not, which means users would be more willing to sacrifice pre-shot capture, and a large buffer for action. If camera makers open up a survey for all and not just “professionals” they would obtain a more accurate reading of what the majority of photographers really want. And I believe the cost ceiling would be around $1,200 USD.

How small are we talking about? Clearly there are many examples of smaller cameras that meet your criteria.

I'm still shooting a GX85 and just getting newer lenses. It still does everything I need it to do, and none of the compact mft cameras released since have represented a significant upgrade that justify the price. It'd be nice to get a newer BSI 16mp sensor and next gen IBIS but that's not gonna happen because marketing is all about bigger number better.

Just to put things into perspective: the Sony A6700 is a pretty compact camera with all the features of a modern camera (PDAF tracking AF with AI/machine learning-based subject recognition, IBIS, 10bit video codecs + log profiles, modern 26 MP sensor). It should be possible, especially for a manufacturer with so much electronics expertise and in-house technology as Panasonic, to produce an MFT camera with a similar form factor and similar features, and perhaps even better IBIS.

S9 existing shows they can make a high-end m43 camera in a gx9 body.

I think the issue is people are judging the performance, size and price of the system on a camera level and sensor size level. They don’t consider the size of the lens and the amount of different lenses you have to carry in ff to cover the same range as in mft. at a slight trade off in image quality, many mft lenses replace the need of 2 or 3 bodies in ff. Think of the 40-150f2.8, or the 12-100f4. Effectively in use case, you can’t cheaply replace those lenses with just one lens and one body on ff, you’d need a bunch of primes and a big bag to carry all that.

I'm still clinging to the idea of a G90 successor, but I know it would be somehow different in some of the minute things that make it my favourite camera.

The reason why I can't take any of these arguments seriously is that the Panasonic GX85 already felt soooo close, back in 2016. Great stills quality, great 4K video quality, no overheating, amazing IBIS, attractive small size. It only needed PDAF, mic jack, USB-C charging, and a couple more fps on the burst rate, and such a camera would basically be competitive today. Back in the day, Olympus and Panasonic were pushing the boundaries of what was possible with cameras. I just have trouble believing that somehow, all progress ended in 2016.

I would love to see a GX9 II that would be a MFT spin on the S9. Basically taking the G9 II and putting it in a rangefinder style body but also having a mic jack for video. Don't need all of the top video features, 60FPS 4K would be fine, also with PDAF and IBIS.

Rich, this really nails the question. Really appreciated input here, most ppl are still looking at this from a wish list perspective, but you describe the engineering and marketing reality of the situation. If ppl want a small, interchangeable lens M4/3 camera, they may as well bag the GM1, GM5, Pen F, GX9 etc. while they can be found in good nick on the used market.

Very nice video Richard, very good explanation and well thought. I have the G9II and I was expecting the S9 to come with M4/3 but after I saw the specs I was little bit disappointed compare to the price, so I think you are tottaly right, If S9 would come with M4/3 I would still buy another G9II for 2nd camera than an S9 M4/3 with such a price.

I’m surprised you didn’t point to the DLUX-8 from Leica as a great example of these consequences.

Your analysis seems reasonable, thanks for that! But if I get this right, your premise is that people only say they want only a few new/better features in a compact body but if they get what they say they want, they would still opt for a full-featured but bigger camera. I don't know if that is really the case. It wasn't for me for sure. A couple of years ago I had to retire my old E-M1 and had to choose between the latest then E-M1 Mark III and the E-M5 Mark III which used already several years old technology. I was tempted to go for the newest toy but I couldn't get past the bigger size and weight that came with it. MFT's main appeal is the balance between size, weight and features. So I bought the E-M5 Mark III and I don't regret my choice. I wish there was something qualitatively new out there in a similar body but until it comes around, i will still use my old and somewhat stunted but otherwise perfectly adequate camera.