Hall of Famer and ESPN hockey analyst Mark Messier joins the Dan Patrick Show and discusses whether or not he thinks Wayne Gretzky is the best athlete of all time as well as if he thinks someone could surpass him one day
Like the man said compare to his contemporaries: Gretzky won scoring titles by an average of 70 points in the 80's. He had a five year run where he averaged 207 points per season - good luck trying to beat that.
During Wayne Gretzky's Prime he score twice as many POINTS as Mike Bossy. Last time I check #BossMan was as pure as snow at burry the biscuit. Imagine 5-6 seasons of 1 Goal, 2 Assists per game hockey.... Why didn't Bossy score 92 in a season against "tiny" goalies? Why didn't Lemieux get 163 assists in a season? 11 SEASONS with 100+ Apples. That's so much sauce it's savage.
Wayne is one of three team athletes that utterly dominated statistically vs their peers. The other two are Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain. These three belong on the Mt Olympus of sporting gods!
Gretzsky is more widely regarded as the GOAT in hockey than ANY player is in the NBA, which is interesting. I also find it interesting that there seems to be less recency bias in hockey than in the NBA with greats like Howe, Orr, and Richard still receiving a lot of respect. And, while most would argue that Gretzsky is #1, and virtually nobody would argue that he isn't at least #2, people seem to be a bit more accepting of the fact that it's not easy to rank the best hockey players. Perhaps it's the more polite culture of Canadian hockey fans (and Canadian hockey analysts) which helps to partially explain this. That being said, I would agree with your pick of Chamberlain as the NBA GOAT. One thing he had in common with Gretzsky is that they both had great endurance and were able to play unusually longer minutes than their peers.
@@syncmonism Most of the debate I have seen for the GOAT of hockey being someone other than Gretzky are usually from those that are super fans of either Mario or Orr. Given both individual and team stats and accomplishments Wayne and the Oilers (as well as the Kings) had, I find most of these arguments are rather thin in supporting either of these other two as being the GOAT. A better way I think to have this discussion is to break down the debate into who is the GOAT for offense, defense and goalie, as all require unique skillsets that don't necessarily make for an apples-to-apples comparison in the GOAT discussion. For this, I would say Gretzky is the offensive GOAT and Orr (I never saw him play, but his stats and legend says it all) is the defensive GOAT.
Those of us who are old enough know that Gretzky ruined every single hockey pool we ever had, both regular season and playoffs. Whoever drafted first ALWAYS won because Gretzky would have twice the amount of points than anyone else in the league. Gretzky IS the greatest athlete of all time because of how much better he was than the next best player in his sport. The guy was absolutely ridiculous.
Not True! Lemieux and Orr better than Gretzky! In 1980s NHL 8 goals per game! Today only 6 goals per game NHL! If Auston Matthews had played In 1982 he would had scored over 100 goals easily beating Gretzky's 92 goal record easily! Ovechkin ERA only 5,3-6 goals per game NHL! If Ovechkin had played high scoring 1980s he would had scored over 1300 goals! Canada have 650000 hockey players today! USA have 500000 hockey players today! Ovechkin's Russia only under 100000 hockey players! Canada and USA should have 11 players who have scored over 800 goals like Ovechkin today! Soccer have 250 million players vs Canada 650000 players that means The Soccer All Stars would beat Orr Gretzky Lemieux easily 100 game Series 93-7! Soccer have 4 billion fans around the world! Cricket 2 billion fans around the world! Cricket player Bradman hit 99,5 runs average and next Best only 64 runs! Sadaharu Oh hit 868 home runs in Japan against weaker pitching than MLB! Bradman and Oh better than Gretzky because Gretzky 92 goals and Brett Hull 86 goals! Bradman 99,5 versus 64! Gretzky played against players from Canada! 90% of the NHL players from Canada in early 1980s! Today 45% NHL players from Canada! Much better tougher NHL today! Gretzky is good in Canada but not the whole world! Russian hockey player Kharlamov had over 200 million fans in 1970s in Soviet Union More than Gretzky had fans!!
The Finnish Ski Jumper Matti Nykänen won gold Sarajevo 1984 olympics big Hill! Nykänen jump 116 meters first jump and next Second Best was East German Jens Weissflog 107 meters! Nykänen beat East German 8% no-one had done that! Nykänen was better than Gretzky! Gretzky did not beat the Soviets 8%!
It is weird to think could someone come close to any of Gretzky's records? Maybe Ovechkin can break his career goals record. Connor Mcdavid looks good, but I don't think he can get to Gretzkys numbers unless he plays another 10 to 12 great years. Connor Bedard has so much potential, but at best again it seems Sidney Crosby or Connor Mcdavid level.
To underline what you said about McDavid. Even if he gets an average of 140 points per season for the next 12 years, he would be at 2662 career points after 21 seasons played. Gretzky had 2857 in 20 seasons. So McDavid would need to have those 12 fantastic seasons on top of what he has already produced, plus have another 3 or 4 solidly good seasons (or rather, VERY good seasons for someone playing seasons number 22, 23, and 24) to have a shot at Gretzky's point's record. Or another way of looking at it. He's got 5 scoring titles. Gretzky had 10. So McDavid would need as many scoring titles in the back half of his career as he had in the front half of his career to tie Gretzky. That's a tall mountain to climb.
Greatest Players of all time .......and the "runner ups" in each major sport. NFL 1) Tom Brady 2) Jerry Rice NBA 1) Michael Jordan 2) Lebron James MLB 1) Derek Jeter 2) Barry Bonds (3 Babe Ruth) NHL 1) Wayne Gretzky 2) Mario Lemieux (3 Sidney Crosby) College Football People starting not to care College Basketball People stopped caring in 2005
Your baseball list is so embarrassing, Jesus Christ. You have Ruth in parentheses at third and no mention of Aaron, Mays, Williams, Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, Young (amongst others).
NFL goat you have a cheater and the best WR of all time, but if you need blocking you didn't ever go to Jerry. your MLB list is maybe the 3rd best shortstop of his era and a guy who cheated his way out of the HOF.
Orr did what he did in the most watered down and least competitive time of the modern era, possibly league history. All he knew was expansion throughout his whole career.
@@94champsGretzky was protected by the league, lol he was not to be touched, one guy nailed him and never had another nhl game. Gretzky is not even in top 100 of greatest athletes of all time. Your all a joke hockey's sucks ass
@@94champsgladly! Michael Jordan had 2 more championships 2 more playoff/finals MVPs and he dominated both sides of the floor. 10 scoring titles along with 10 all defense first teams. His best teammate was Scottie Pippen who only made the all star game 4 times without him. In non Jordan years the Bulls never sniffed the finals in their entire history. Gretzky had Mark Messier who himself is a top 10 if not top 5 player of all time. He didn’t score a goal until his 9th Stanley cup final game and unlike Jordan he lost badly in the finals. The oilers won the cup 2 years after he left and beat his kings twice in the process of doing so. He had way more help and was nowhere near as versatile in total sports dominance like Jordan. Couldn’t perform in both sides of the arena like Jordan could. Everyone loves to ONLY TALK ABOUT REGULAR SEASON STATS AND RECORDS with Gretzky. The playoffs and the finals are a new season and he is not goat of goat status in those categories.
As greatest athetes, I think we have to look at individuel athetes who combines differents assets… In gymnastic, athetism and swimming… As team sport professional athletes, that s something else. We have to go with their domination while they were playing and the results in victory for their team. I don think any body is close from Greztky with Edmonton. Maybe Chamberlain? But he lacks championship. I read Brady before, but was not that dominant in single season statistic. Jordan seem to be fair. In football, Pelé as well.
Glad to see you didn’t watch the video because Messier literally said the reason why he thinks what he thinks & he isn’t wrong. In terms of GOATs, Wayne Gretzky is at the top of the mountain looking down on everyone else. Just go look at his records that speak for themselves. Some of them are never going to be broken & that’s just crazy to think about. He 2800+ points in a career & no one else has 2,000. He’s also the only player in his professional sport that everyone is in agreement that he is the greatest ever, no other professional sport in this country can say that.
Robert Gordon Orr is the GOAT. But all Dan knows is Gretzky, so he goes with that. Why bother having a guy on during the playoffs just to talk about the only guy in puck you know?
Name another NHL player who has accomplished more in a career than Wayne Gretzky. I’ll help you out, you can’t because there’s a very good reason he’s called “The Great One” because that’s exactly what he is, the greatest of all time.
A one trick pony whose greatest “one trick” was being the best in every single offensive category in the both the regular season and in the playoffs, as well as in international competition, in both season and career of every level of hockey. That’s quite a “one trick”. Ah, speaking of tricks, his record 50 regular season hat tricks and record 10 career playoff hat tricks were also a great “one trick”…
@@michaelgriffiths8068 must be nice to have mess and others protect you. gretz overrated one trick pony. no defense. had protection on the ice. legend in his own mind.
@@michaelgriffiths8068 you're joking right? Never seen a bigger ego maniac than gretzky. he should say many current players are better two way players than him because they are. Look...like most americans...i cant stand canadians. you arent helping lmao.
You sound like Forrest Gump. "We don't have to worry about money no more. Great. One less thing." Let me explain the joke to you. You see, money solves more than just one problem. It solves housing, food, transportation, tuition, medical expenses, etc. So, "One less thing." is funny. You saying Gretzky is a great offensive player and a "one trick pony" is like Forrest Gump because you see passing, shooting, drawing several players out of position, taking slapshots in full stride, forcing defenders to knock their own net off the pegs, and so so much more as great offense, just one thing. Run Forrest! Run!
Wayne transcended hockey...dont forget, he also saved the NHL . The league was on the verge of collapse back then. They retired his number league wide . I mean honestly, who would have the nerve to actually wear number 99 in hockey. Greatest team sport athlete ever, Tom Brady a very close 2nd.
He would be up there in the ranks, however, he didn't play enough football & baseball as a career to determine whether or not he should be considered to have the proper crudentials to be one of the most athletic players of all-time. Shohei Ohtani was better anyways. The one thing that stands out about Bo is when he cracked his bat over his knee and it completely broke into pieces. I could be wrong, though. This is just what I remember about Bo Jackson.
Messier is a pretty smart guy with so much experience, but even he can't really answer such a complicated question. Hockey is a team sport Winning the Stanley Cup and even the President's Trophy is more valuable than the Art Ross, Maurice Richard, Hart, Norris, Vezina, etc trophies. And still, Gretzky was in an era without a salary cap and with very limited free agency. There is no way to simplify the equation to fairly compare anyone to Gretzky. It is probably best to just regard the two eras as two different sports, like saying 15-round boxing and 12-round boxing are two different sports.
Some were better overall (combination of offense+defense) like Bobby Orr, were more complete (combining toughness and skill) like Gordie Howe, maybe a couple had more raw talent like Mario Lemieux but when it comes to numbers and accomplishments, nobody else in sports put up bigger numbers than Gretzky, that is a fact.
Name one athlete who had bigger numbers than him, I’m waiting! Apparently there was a cricket player that put up comparable numbers but Gretzky beats even him. The only one I can think of is Orr, his stats compared to other defensemen in his era were actually superior to Gretzky’s compared to other forwards in his, Orr even beats anyone at any position in +/- but because his career was cut short, Bourque has most of the all time records, not Orr.
Cricket player Bradman 99,5 runs average and next Best only 64 runs! Sadaharu Oh hit 868 home runs in Japan and next Best only 600! Bradman and Oh better than Gretzky! Joe Malone in 1915-1922 scored 1,2 goals per game! Bradman Oh Malone better than Gretzky! Orr and Lemieux were better than Gretzky! In 1980s NHL 8 goals per game! Today only 6 goals per game NHL! If Auston Matthews had played In 1982 he would had scored over 100 goals easily beating Gretzky's 92 goal record! Ovechkin ERA only 5,3-6 goals per game NHL! If Ovechkin had played high scoring 1980s he would had scored over 1300 goals! Soccer have 250 million players vs Canada 650000 players that means The Soccer All Stars would beat Orr Gretzky Lemieux easily 100 game Series 93-7!!
I remember back in those days, being a Ranger fan we didn't see the West Coast teams very often, I remember thinking really how good is Gretzky, I thought his greatness may be a little overblown, until he came to the Rangers in 96-97, he was absolutely amazing, I feel bad for hockey fans that didn't get to see him play, later in his career he was more of an assist guy than a pure goal scorer. His passing skills were just unreal, threading passes over and under defenders sticks, I know todays players are extremely skillfull too but Wayne was ahead of his time and could compete with todays players easily...
The greatest athletes top 8 ..Wayne Gretzky , Michael Jordan, babe Ruth, Barry bonds , mario lemeiux, lebron James, kobe Bryant, Lionel messi , lou gerhig, tom beady. Alex ovechkin. ,..bobby Orr was very good, but not great!
Bobby Orr was very good but not great?? Please... He changed how the whole game was played as did Gretzky. Very few can claim that in team sports. Bird, Magic and MJ did it... As did Ruth. Brady, Sanders and Jim Brown for NFL are my picks to name a few that changed the game for their eras.
Gretzky is one of the best. But I think Pele, Diego Maradona and Lionel Messi are the best athletes of all time. Best players in the worlds biggest sport. Football is so much bigger than any sport in the world, it's not even funny. And it's definitely the hardest sport to get into the top.
Hard to say, he had a massive amount of talent with him on the Ice at all times most years, including an offensive D man in Paul Coffey. His points record will most likely never be broken. He's clearly the greatest hockey player and to me a clear cut mount rushmore player for the 4 major sports. If Jordan didn't step away for a year, and had a better supporting cast early on in his career you'd most likely be talking about 7 rings. Jordan lead the league in scoring 10 times. Wayne did it 5 times with goals. Jordan was a 9 time all defensive first team player, Gretzsky never won a Selke, or really had any consideration for one. So Jordan was a better scorer, better defender had more titles. Wayne had 9 MVPs to Jordans 5, and Wayne has monster total numbers with assists. To me MJ edges out Wayne more scoring titles, better defender, more championships vs MVPS longevity and numbers and MJ was the elite of elite athletically. It's close but #1 MJ #2 Wayne
It's kind of crazy how good he was for someone who was actually below average size for an NHL player. It's quite unusual. If you look at the other greatest NHL players, most of them were much larger and stronger men. Lemieux, who is probably the second best player ever, and perhaps the only player that you could plausibly argue was better than Gretzsky in his prime, was a giant compared to Gretzsky. Gretzsky didn't just have skill though. He had unusually good recovery time, and it wasn't just because he kept himself in good shape. He also had some unusual genetics which allowed him to recover faster even than other players who were also in equally good physical condition. This allowed him to play longer minutes, to exert more energy when he was playing, and also likely made it easier for him to think quickly and clearly during the game.
The greatest athletes of all time are: Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Usain Bolt, Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Mickey Mantle, Ronaldo, Lionel Messi.
@@daddynanners3944 I think you're right. Wayne dominated everyone and racked up up 200+ pts in multiple seasons. He scored 50 goals in 39 games. What do you think about his defensive skills? Also, is Gretzky more naturally gifted athletically then Michael Jordan, Usain Bolt, Lionel Messi, or LeBron James?
@@GhostbustersPhone8489 didn’t get a goal until His 9th Stanley cup game. Lost to his former team 2 seasons after being traded and they won 2 cups without him. Regular season I’ll take Gretzky Playoffs and Finals I’ll take Jordan Overall I’ll take Jordan since he also had 10 scoring titles and 6 MVPs since that is regular season. He also won dpoy and 10 all defensive teams while Gretzky was a subpar defensive player.
🤣🤣🤣 Yeah if you look at meaningless regular season stats sure (although Jordan’s points per game are higher than Wilts)in the playoffs and finals no one accomplished what Jordan did in any sport including Gretzky. He didn’t have his team win 2 titles without him. And he definitely won more than 2 rings with 1 finals MVPs like wilt 🤣🤣🤣
If ur honest, 99 is the most dominant in his sport than an other athlete that ever lived. I would maybe say Usain Bolt and Haile Gabrellassie are close.
