So deep about this topic, i used to play g50'2 and still in palm grip at a gpx, moving to op18k, feels like im going to face the same situation because its time to try claw, great video vis!
As a fingertip enjoyier I think claw grip is also really good. It's up to individual preferences and the mouse you are using. Unfortunately, most mice don't have a very good shape for fingertip grip.
A thing that helped me with choosing a grip style and mouse later on was Rocket Jump Ninjas videos and website. He goes very in-depth about every aspect of a mouse and your grip.
I have something like a finger-claw grip where the ring finger is at the very beginning of the mouse and the little fingers are below the middle.. I don’t know why, but it’s really convenient for me to hold it like that. When I try to pick up the mouse as you showed, my sight starts to shake. But from time to time I will try to learn how to hold the mouse with all the grips that you showed in this video. Thanks for the video, it really helps me understand because there are very few videos on this topic
I just recently discovered your channel through your mouse pad speed google doc + Orbital project you're a part of. Great stuff! The aim training subreddit can be a bit elitist, but your content is informative and chill, so thank you! Also great BFV clips! Battlefield's comp & creator scene leaves a lot to be desired.
Your point about fingertip grip making your aim shaky when you tense your fingers is exactly why my aim became 5x better when I started using 10cm/360 sens. Before I used to play on around 20cm/360, which is still high, but my problem was that I kwpt tensing my fingers to do flicks, which ended up massively hindering my overall aim. Ever since I switched to a 10cm/360 which meant I could casually make flicks without much effort, and practice on precision my aim became 5x better.
great video, I agree with your thoughts. From my personal experience and understanding, mouse grip does not matter (and i mean you shouldn't think about it). I believe mouse shapes matter way more like you covered. The real issue you should worry about is how you use ur arm and wrist to move the mouse in whatever game/situation. It's way more important to find a mouse you like shape wise and just try it out. The more you use it, your grip will slowly gravitate to its comfort state. If you don't, find whats the issue and look for a mouse that reduces the uncomfortability.
Well, in my opinion there's one more thing at least to add into the equation of mouse grip. You're spot on with "if no grip feels right, start experimenting with shapes". I'd say that not only shapes, but also a big thing: posture. Having the base of the palm on or off the mousepad, forearm pronation/supination and so on. But at the same time 100% agree there's little to no benefit of overthinking it. Like I tried to put grip tape on the spots I placed my fingers at one day, and the next day I played worse. Probably just because of having that conscious stress of placing my fingers on that grip tape haha. Just an example for some context: I used to play with an MX518 with a 1-3-1 and a hover for a long time. When the mouse broke I couldn't use any other shape thinking I'm an alien. It took me a couple of years of playing through pain with different shapes to realize that my right shoulder posture should be corrected (it was rotated forward and dropped low). Right now I can use any mouse and any grip with reasonable comfort just because the whole chain of shoulder, forearm, wrist and palm are in a much better position 😱
This was very helpful. I obsess over grip and you addressed all the reasons why I obsess over it so thanks a bunch! Now I just wish I could understand how you control recoil. Maybe some day. 🥰
W educational video as always. I find that my grip changes depending on the kind of aiming im doing as well. I notice when I play static scenarios or tack fps games, I would gravitate naturally towards a fingertip grip because the micro adjustments fingertip gives in those aiming scenarios are nessesary to perform well for me.
I am an Overwatch 2 Player and I have definitely had the most success with fingertip grip just because how much movement you have to make compared to other games.
My mouse grip and mouse type was easy for me., plastics make my hand sweat so nothing in my palm was a comfort must.. thus I am a pincer claw/fingertip mouse enjoyer
*VIDEO IDEA* Can you pls make a video talking about the benefits of claw grip and why you should switch to claw grip and how to actually grip your mouse for it to be considerd a claw grip bc im debating whether i should switch from fingertip grip to claw grip bc of the downsides of fingertip grip like you mentioned
Viscose i have three questions for you if you don't mind answering them. 1. What do you use for aim training? 2. What courses do you recommend on that aim training? 3. What's your opinion on raw accel (program for aiming) and should it be used to further better my aim?
hi! personally i aimtrain on kovaaks mainly, it has the widest range of scenarios and best scenarios otu of aim of the mainstream aimtrainers IMO voltaic has some good resources to get started, i personally dont play any routines but i try to choose out scenarios to target weaknesses i notice when playing ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PpHXByUEYbA.htmlsi=MEdSk-0yyYfQwHEg this is a vid i made a few months back covering my thoughts on accel! hope its helpful
Since I started using a mouse I always grip like between claw and fingertip and later found it is pincer claw grip, Cant believe I grip like this from kid to now
Fingertip like you said sounds the best in theory. But long term it feels awful for me. No stability, fingers get tired, and the improved control is overrated. If you do claw palm combined you can still use your arm for 95% of the time and still have enough movement in your fingers to make micro adjustments.
I play palm grip with a super super high sens at 720 edpi for Valorant which i think is 2x or 3x the pro average. I find that it makes flicking up alot easier because I'm purely aiming with wrist and no arm movement. I get pretty consistent aim. 2400 dpi with 0.3 in-game. It's also so good for 1 v X situations and flicking. It's also super underrated for tracking!!
I use a similar grip, I relaxed fingertip as a baseline and whenever I do faster motions I usually have palm contact. The area where my palm contacts even changes depending on the position of the mouse relative to my hand. Many years ago I used palm grip when I was playing on a very slow mousepad and a mouse with a thick, heavy wire and I automatically transitioned to that new grip over time when I replaced the wire with a paracord and got a faster mousepad. Around that time I wanted to get a new mouse so I was trying to figure out what grip I was using and I was super confused because my new grip was changing between fingertip and claw but I still sometimes palmed the mouse back then so I basically used all 3 grip styles. And I'm still not sure if my current grip is more of a fingertip or a claw grip. I guess it's both.
Ive used claw and claw palm hybrids since i was young but as i had to lower my sensitivity for faster paced games I noticed my hand naturally doing a fingertip grip. Nowadays I use fingertip almost exclusively, and I got a mouse to take advantage of that grip. But I also have a mouse for claw, in case i need the stability that day or im playing a game that isnt fps.
someone should create an adjustable mouse size/shape or a flexible mouse where you can squeeze the mouse into multiple shape that would be an endgame mouse
@@ViscoseOCE XDDD Yeah i did the same. I actually had a WW fuel injector with 4 holo Incineration stickers for a good price on CSmoney sale but i missed all other things. I was doing the same on servers. Usually it was m9 lore mith those wraps. Cs has so many beautiful yellow skins to make a solid set. Missing deagle btw :)
I found this video very helpful I have had so many mouse grip problems for 2 years, I have tried so many different things. My natural mouse grip hurts the right side of my hand and can hurt near my shoulder blade this could be because I don’t use my fingers when aiming and I don’t know how to fix that. But with my natural mouse grip I can aim the best so switching never really felt right and my aim was always terrible. It could be time for a new mouse but I could just be holding the mouse wrong entirely. Also I use a kinda relaxed claw grip where my hand is holding more of the right side of my mouse, I’m using the glorious model o wireless.
my natural mouse grip is a palm grip but for some reason I hold it with my hand more to the left which makes me hold my mouse a little inclined to the left. I'm entirely used to it though and it works great for me, though I have considered making adjustments in the past
What are your thoughts on using different mice to train different aspects of aim? Since grabbing the OP1 I've noticed a huge improvement with my micro adjustments/finger control due to the straight flat sides and thin grip. I didn't however feel I performed best with it as I could never stay consistent tracking wise due to the flat and not so tall hump. I have noticed interestingly since going back to my ZA13 my micro adjustments/fine air tracking are now on the same level as they were on the OP1 anyway. I've bounced between 30+ mice and the ZA13 over the years and never had this effect with it before. Feel like I learned something using the OP1 and carried it over with me. I've been wondering... if playing at different sensitivities can force improvement in certain areas of aim AKA low sense for arm, then maybe playing with certain mice can put more focus on other areas that need improving too.
To be honest I use my screen mount as a bungee and couldn't care for wireless these days. I would get the ZA13-CW if released as the dock is easy charging, but not worried that much. My end goal is to play better. If I do that with an older sensor and a wire so be it, as long as personal performance is higher.
@@lukekenyon8662 Wired seems to have a comeback, judging by the praise for the OP1 8K. Cables are much better these days and bungees are a thing too. (or you go ghetto DIY style with your monitor.) I would just prefer a high quality, lightweight ZA shape iteration featuring a state-of-the-art sensor to do it justice. The looming danger of a sudden tilt-slam spin out shouldn't be a thing anymore in 2024. (Wireless would be the cherry on the top, but not the deciding factor for me.)
These days I try to find out how to control tension while aiming, especially in APEX. I want to do crazy precise flick shot but also tracking targets smoothly. However when I flick to a target with putting tension, the hand and arm can’t be relaxed and then it makes tracking terrible. I know tension should be dynamic but really no idea how to control it.
I 131 grip a gpxsl with 21x9 hands. Mostly do a fingertippy claw I guess IDK. 131 lets me kind of switch between ftip, claw and palm as needed without really changing my grip in terms of my fingers, just increasing palm contact. Only have my thumb on left side and pinky on right side. Middle finger resting on scroll. Mostly play PUBG
Similarly to what the video entails does this also apply to the degree you hold your mouse ? I tend to hold it at such a degree that when moving my wrist from left to right, I move diagonally. I mean I could force my hand to hold the mouse to make a straight line but it feels kinda uncomfortable… is my mouse simply not for me or does it really not matter if you can’t make straight lines?
no not weird at all!! i do the exact same i think its good to think of your sensitivity as a tool, each game takes a different mechanical skillset so you want to try pick the “right tool for the job” by choosing a sens that suits the game
I started aim training when I got an hsk pro off smoking weed and thinking "That thing looks fucking silly to learn. Lets do it!" So I hardly think about grip now. My thoughts on grip were that I literally struggled to put my pinky on the mouse at all, used to use the grips to make the mouse slightly wider to help with that. Now I don't need the grips, and pinky stays on, and specifically slightly into my pad for a different source of info of my mouse's location
Nowadays I'm having a lot of fun, got the HTR Pro finally after some delays from G-Wolves. Now I'm back to my Atlantis Mini, just wanting to try messing with claw again. I feel like my fingertips do so much work, but it'd be a better balance with claw. I might think about an ergonomic mouse or something for palm grip to master it all like pokemon!
i use it for everything basically! i write a lot outside of making videos and being able to link ideas from other pages is rly nice and i loove the check box feature it has and being able to access everything from my phone too is a huge bonus. do you use it as well or are u considering swapping to it?
Can u please do a video about "Controlled Fingertip" mouse grip? I saw only 1 guy on RU-vid explaining it, which turned to be my own weird mouse grip that I thought it was a claw grip for a very very long time. Which made me waste lots of money on "Claw Grip Mice" and lots of time trying to find Sensitivities for games. I ended up with the Logitech G303 shroud, but I still feel off, especially when lifting up the mouse, and I switched from 40 cm/360 to 25 cm/360. The best conclusion I came up with regarding why the G303 is currently my main is the back of the mouse, many calls "Diamond shaped back", But I found that my hand mostly contact only the right side of the back (and I'm right handed). Thanks for the great content, any tips would be highly appreciated.
this kinda just looks like an aggressive claw to me idk haha, ive seen this grip before but def dont think its the objective best and dont plan on covering it in detail
@@ViscoseOCE Well, I'm really thankful for taking the time to consider or reach a conclusion regarding it. But I do have to disagree with it being an aggressive claw grip, the best examples that could back up my judgement here would be the comparison between Tenz & Shroud's mouse grip, where Shroud uses this "Controlled Fingertip" & Tenz uses an Aggressive Claw. Yet, there's a short YT of Tenz where he's saying that he saw how Shroud hold his mouse & he was surprised about it or found it a bit weird as a mouse grip. Again, thanks for the great contents, and I'm always looking forward to your posts.
sry to be the bearer of bad news haha but there isnt rly a playlist like that? imo the best way to get better quickly is to be very conscious of ur own mistakes and pick out scenarios thatll help with that, absent mindedly playing a playlist probs wont help as much
@@ViscoseOCEI just wish I knew what my problem is I just don't know if it's my setup my mouse control my micro flicks my grip maybe I'm just overthinking but idk
For some reason my pinky is soo stiff so i grip my mouse with all my fingers except for my pinky. It just floats around by itself on my mousepad. Any suggestions?
No I don’t think so. Holding your mouse in your hand should feel free and comfortable and you shouldn’t change it. People who hold their mouse in weird ways is because they are comfortable with it , like this would make sense in other games like fighting games on the Switch or you know controller games for speed runners or strategy games. On the mouse there isn’t 6 7 buttons or triggers to click , there’s only two with the exception of 6, the two front ones and the two on the left and right of the mouse aka the Logitech wireless mouse.
i have realized another ignored reason for hand pain after long uses of mouse is, the height distance between desk and chair, it creates a lot of issue sometimes and we ignore it and think it is hand or mouse, great stuff as always though. very informative.
thank u! thats a good point yea, i dont feel qualified to talk abt it in a video but what ive found is that if i stick my forearm out 90 degrees the desk should be just about under it without any straining. whats been ur experience with this?
@@ViscoseOCE i have been struggling in this height issue for years, finally i got my desk height reduced and what i found a good relaxing position for long hours is where chair height is consistent with these condition : 1-feet should be able to touch ground with 70-80 degree angle to keep it relaxed 2-upper arm should make a down 80-90% angle and lower arm should be on desk without much pressure and no lifting obvious to keep hand relaxed 3-screen top should be making a straight line with your eye angle,or monitoir can be a bit lower, becasue its hard to look up but much easy to look down 4-monitor distance with eyes should be close enough so you don't go closer to screen while playing. but it you should be able to see full screen with rotating your neck. i prefer good longevity option, i am still exploring with my experience and time, hope these point makes sense.
@@ViscoseOCE That's around the height i've settled on too and seems to be what most ergonomics experts recommend. I used the G602 for a while and was always sitting way too low. it absolutely murdered my wrist. Thank god I changed mice, and the way I sat.
Just yesterday I put together my desk from Ikea because I felt this was a problem for me. Combined height of the legs and desk is about 25" which is a lot more comfortable compared to my previous desk of 30". A lot of legs for desks don't adjust that low which is such a shame because I feel that a lot of people will use a desk that is too high because they cant even easily test one at a lower possibly more comfortable position.
thank you so much, i finally decide to stop copying whatever grip i saw you used from your last highlight and go whatever comfortable for me, palm for flick and claw for tracking, no more tiring and my performance also skyrocket
This is really interesting and insightful, when I'm aim training I always found myself changing my grip in some way depending on what I was training and it made me think I was doing it to chase a new highscore rather than trying to improve. Thanks for talking about this!
Viscose I missed your video so muchhhh! Actually helpful to have a decent insight from proven aimer on mouse grip cuz ive been struggling on mine. tyty
