We should replace Islam with any religion and then you will be able to start! especially Hinduism as India represents it and Pakistan represents Islam🤣
@@shoaibmemon9557 The chief foes of democracy and human rights are the United Kingdom and the United States. In Iran and Turkey democracy was introduced in 1906 and 1908 but was failed due to the UK and US, conspiracies, and opposition.
Well islam had better versions of democracy beacuse they didn't want no western colonial ideas but back then they had good laws until West ruined it all so people could follow them so apparently the world turns better
No!!!!! Because indonesia that majority of population was a muslim including indonesian president jokowi dodo that himself was a muslim have a role in indonesian democraty
@@awacherif1689 Yes it does. Democracy is man made and Islam won't accept anything other than Allah's laws as made up by Md. , who was ironically ...a man.
For democracy to be successful it HAS to have strong human rights legislation. The role of any religion in any form of government is first and foremost to protect itself and this invariably comes at the expense of those outside of that religion. The separation of church and state was the key ingredient in allowing the West to thrive and ultimately it more than anything else paved the way for successful democracies. Turkey is the textbook example of what happens when a democracy is undermined with religiously inspired policies.
And now the west is literally dying and replacing itself by importing people from non democratic religious civilisations to supplement their population decrease.
You do know that Arab Secularism was violently crushed by the UK and USA after WWII, right? The people have wanted a separation of church and state in the region but this wasn't allowed by the Western powers that wanted full access to petroleum.
The first part of my previous post still remains! Why Islam is always mistaken? Myth: Islam is totalitarian. Reality: Besides Quran; which is, in fact, more a book of signs and signals than direct orders, Islam derives it laws from: Ijma; Consensus, Istehsan; Equity, Masalih-Marsala; Public Good, Itedlal; Argument, Ijtihad; Reasoning. These are but clear negation of totalitarianism Myth: Islam is autocratic and claim inerrancy? Reality: Except Quran-which has stood the test of time; Islam never calls any other source as inerrant yes, its contemporary perfection is fully ensured. Our renowned jurists used to say, “Any of our verdicts (law induced), if proved in contradiction to the Quran, throw it on the wall” Even Ahadees; the reported sayings of the Prophet PBUH, which is the second main source of Islamic Law after Quran, have been strictly scrutinized and then declared as authentic or discarded as void. Myth: Islam doesn’t tolerate other religion. Reality: Islam is the only religion on earth whose followers not only regard its own Prophet as esteemed, but all the Prophets, including those of Jews and Christians. The first Islamic state; Madina and then Makkah had many Jews and others as citizens, all were protected and not discriminated against. Even during expansion phase of the Islam, and during wars, civilians were fully protected. NOTE: Nonviolent competition between any two systems, to prove superiority with logical facts cannot be interpreted as intolerance. Myth: The intolerant Mullahs and the terrorist Islamic State etc. are Islamic Reality: Quran here speaks in clear words: Chapter 2, Verse 256: “There is no compulsion in (the acceptance of) Islam.” Regarding IS etc. Quran says: Chapter 5, Verse 32, “Whoever kills any innocent person (Any Person NOT MUSLIM ONLY) is as though he killed all mankind.” And brother, the concept of reward; including punishment for the evil-doers, is the essence of a good system, say ‘good governance”. I’m shocked, how one can have objection over this! As a rule; to challenge a system, 1st one needs to disprove that, 2nd a better-one has to be put forth. But the on ground reality is that all the virtues like: justice, equity, tolerance, respect and abstinence from harming and hurting others etc. all that is thought to be what secularism teaches now, is exactly what Islam has been teaching since 1400 years. Islam, in addition, provides a set of morality as well, which secularism is immune to. Now which one is a better system…………
"Myth: Islam is totalitarian." Ok, but why are there so many Muslims and Muslim states which act like Islam was a totalitarian religion? Many modern insights contradict the Quran and the Bible and in fact all ancient myths in many ways. "Myth: Islam doesn’t tolerate other religion." Is it tolerant about atheists? Or about Hinduism, Buddhism or natural religions? "I’m shocked, how one can have objection over this (punishment of evil-doers)!" So you think that every Muslim is an evil-doer who stones an apostate? Or an adulterer? Or anyone? And if you are shocked about the thought that some evil-doers will never be punished, that does not make your fantasy of punishment after death true. I can't disprove any claim of any fantasy about anything happening after death an in my view nobody can. "all that is thought to be what secularism teaches now, is exactly what Islam has been teaching since 1400 years" That might be true, but it was corrupted. And the reason of that is the claim that there is only one truth. The better system is the system that can adapt to change. Islam has not yet proven that it can do that.
Why double standard brother? About Hitler you say that don’t blame the system/secularism for his acts as his acts contradict secularism. But yourself go against own rule; attack system/Islam for the follies of some Muslims or some so-called Muslim states. Here I don’t plead for Muslims, I say and can prove that Islam is perfect. Yes Muslims are not. “Many Modern Insights contradict Quran” For instance??? Is it tolerate about….? I guess you haven’t read, or comprehended, if read my 2nd post…. What violation of law has it done against any of them? Two or more “isms” challenging the authority of each other have all the rights to challenge each other through argument and logical reasoning. Now that other don’t or can’t and Islam has the mettle to not only challenge but also prove them wrong and that too from within them is itself a proof of its superiority if you seek truth. Stoning to death… Apostate is not stoned to death brother, you have misconception, as I have already said! this is why I urge upon you to please learn about Islam, and I hope your misconception well be removed. Brother why go to Akhirat this early? We are talking about isms in the world, disprove Islam here in matter of world. It was corrupted… You claim, I request please prove it! Better system is which adopts to changes For this re-read my 1st Answer in 2nd post; Other sources of Islamic Laws: they are tools to adopting to modern age.
+Adeel Khan Hitler was not a secularist or an atheist. At least he did never say that. Officially he was a Christ and he wrote in "my struggle" about his admiration of Jesus. He was a fundamentalist. I don't see a double standard here. "I say and can prove that Islam is perfect. " How is Islam "perfect"? And how can you "prove" that? "“Many Modern Insights contradict Quran” For instance???" wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran ""Is it tolerant about ...?" "I guess you haven’t read, or comprehended, if read my 2nd post…." Ok, I admit, you can claim to have the perfect truth and be tolerant about other claims. But the claim having the source of the total truth is totalitarian. "Apostate is not stoned to death" In ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran and african Muslim countries either apostates or homosexuals or adulterers are stoned or beheaded and in many places at least ostracized. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#In_Islam en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#Usage_today "It was corrupted… You claim, I request please prove it!" It was corrupted by ISIS, Saudi Arabia, Iran, ...... "Islamic Laws: they are tools to adopting to modern age." I don't think so. Why then are so many Muslims killing each other referring to their belief? Sunni against Shia for instances. Why are Islamic countries far behind in many respects like science, human rights, women's rights, children's rights, homosexual's rights, other religions, freedom of thought, economy, democracy? These are facts, no myths.
Translate these words from Arabic: الإسلام لا يتماشى مع الديمقراطية، الإسلام أفضل من الديمقراطية. الديمقراطية تعني حكم الشعب على نفسه، بينما في الإسلام الله سبحانه وتعالى هو من يختارُ لنا الأحكام وكيفية العيش، لأنه خالقنا، وهو الأدرى بمصلحتنا. قوانين الشريعة الإسلامية صالحة لكل زمان ومكان، وخلال الفترة الإسلامية التي استمرت حوالي 1200 سنة، كان المسلمون متقدمون في جميع المجالات، العسكرية والسياسية والدينية والعلمية، كان الاوروبيون يغارون من المسلمون في عهد الدولة العثمانية، كانوا يلبسون لباس المسلمين، كان الاروبيون يتعلمون من علماء المسلمين، يتركون بلادهم ويسافرون آلاف الكيلومترات ليتعلموا في معاهد المسلمين تحت أيدي علمائنا. كانت الدولة الأسلامية من بلاد الفرس والهند شرقاً حتى الأندلس غرباً، ولولا تداعي الأمم والخائنين عليها لما سقطت. بالطبع، المرأة ليست كالرجل، ولا الرجل كالمرأة، لو كانوا كذلك لما خلقنا الله جنسين مختلفين، كل منهما له حقوقه وواجباته، ومساواتهما لا تجوز، المساواة لا تعني العدل. كأن تعطي الدولة طفلاً صغيراً دولاراً، وتعطي شاب في الثلاثين من عمره ديناراً، بحجة تحقيق العدل، الطفل سيكفيه 100 دولار، بينما لن تكفِ الشاب 300 دولار، بسبب مسؤولياته ومصاريفه الكثيرة، فعندما تنادون للمساواة بينهما، بذلك تنادون لعدم العدل. أيضاً، اذا اراد الغرب، ومن على شاكلتهم العيش في مجتمع ضمن قوانينه الخاصة تحت مسمى الحرية، فأنه أيضاً يحق للشعوب في الشرق الاوسط تبني الشريعة الإسلامية كقوانين لها، أيضاً، اذا كان الغرب حراً في أن يكون بلداً علمانياً، فأن شعوب الشرق الاوسط لها الحرية في أن تكون دولةً إسلامية
@joebob Look . Get things in perspective. He is being most undemocratic in anchoring debate... Islam and democracy are antonyms of eachother... Don't u live in fools paradise. Islam is mediaeval era philosophy which was used to loot, plunder and subdue. Get some history lesson before calling someone dumb. I am more read than what you would have chanted lifelong..
This was such an interesting debate to listen to. I particularly, like the fact that one of the speakers highlighted that 'democracy is different from liberal democracy. I think in this regard, the West (most especially America), should allow the Middle East to practice the type of democracy that best suits their region. Rather than, trying to enforce 'one size fit all' liberal democracy in the Middle East. This is because of their shared culture and how their religion to a larger extent is intertwined with their politics.
But I agree with your comment I was just pointing something out. Anyway I also don't think church and state are really completely separate in the US anyway they are trying to put Christianity in politics way too much :/
it's amazing to see so many *Americans* becoming *interested* in solving *problems* of *middle east* when their own ship is sinking in *debt*. *IRONIC*.
money is kept privately. the pupil can't even get proper education. this is the *"demo-crazy"* these ignorant leaders of muslim lands want us to follow.
The "problem" is East Timor, West Papau Guinea, Abu Sayyaf, the South Thailand insurgency, Bangladeshi invasion of Rohingya, occupation of Cyprus, the Islamic conquest of the Indian subcontinent, the Trans-Saharan slave trade, occupation of West Sahara, arabization of Sudan and Darfur, the conquests of the Al-Andalus & the Balkans, the Armenian genocide, three crisis wars against Israel, the Farhud, dhimmitude, sharia, and the fact that the majority of the Muslim world lives under the rule of dictators & theocrats.
The Armenian genocide was about the Ottomans wanted to cleanse their lands as they retreated. And these dictatorships were a lot more successful than their current status now.
LordOfTheDucks you can add arabzanation of Somalia and we're including many other ethnic groups into the Arabs, cause they wanted it. while the white man still sees his color and compare it with the person front him.
"Bangladeshi invasion of Rohingya". Seriously! If this is the base of your knowledge; I'm afraid u r just brainwashed by sort of propaganda. Best of luck
Why some countries, for example where I come from (Azerbaijan), are being completely ignored? We have a democratic government and the majority of the population is Muslim. While we have our challenges, such as high corruption rates, they have nothing to do with the religion. We have a diverse population that includes Orthodox Russians and live peacefully together.
Mustafa Sabri Efendi, the last SheikhulIslam of the Ottoman Empire, tells in his work Mevkif'ul-Akl 👇 [If the state leaves the line of Islam, "Obeying the dictates of religion is not the business of the government. It is only the business of society." says, this is to separate religion from the state. In such a case, the state apostatized (abandoned religion). If the society consents to such a government, or if the government will make laws by taking the society's proxy in the parliament (that is, by voting), the society will become apostate just as the government is apostate. In this case, the following verse applies to both that government and that ummah: "Those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed, they are the disbelievers themselves." (Surah Maida, Verse 44) A political regime that accepts the principle of secularism means that it has rebelled against the rules of Islam. Therefore, first of all, this government apostatized, and then those who obeyed this administration became apostates one by one. Just as those who take part in the political administration are apostates one by one, the masses obeying this government also fall into apostasy (kufr).] (Mavkif'ul-Akıl, 4/280)
That was really good! As a ypung person, my eyes are opened to different perspectives and I learned the relevance of Islamic Values in democracy, and that its not all about either a full on Islamic state vs full liberal democracy
What we all forget is there has to be a set of values at the base of all government policies. So Democracy started out as a set of basic rules from the dominant religions that were Judaism and Christianity. They called it secular. But In fact a lack of religious basis a vacuum is created. So what we are seeing to day, a democracy that is called secular, is in fact being run on or a lack of principles due to pure Capitalism. Islam in act addresses this issue.. by describing the existence of Capitalism but with religions infusion of sharing and equitable distribution of wealth. That is lack ing profoundly in to days Democratic nations. Europe is now beginning to progress to that aspect. That is some thing Islam has decreed all along... but was never fully followed due to hijacking by self interest of dominant personalities. IN other words the Islam that is perceived by the west is the Islam followed in an middle easter tradition. It is not the pure form. In its pure form Islam works hand in hand with democratic institution. It needs to be studied and implemented.
shahzad abbasi ...I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law. We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas. Soon houthi ,isis, Hamas and hezbullah backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina
because he is a dog and you dont let a dog bark when you are discussing something important , whatever he spoke was irelevant to the topic and haqqani been looking forward to criticize islam .
Islam is beautiful SHARIA means no poor people, why?because of the ruling of Zakkah giving a great portion of wealth to the poor not limiting the giver
Mohamed the Praised one Ibraheem Friend of God not only that Islam is anti racism by establishing salah and fasting month will lead more more n more extra charity . establish salah and jakat
When matters of wrong and right is being discussed in islam a layman is nobody to be asked but rather one should have invited Known Muslim Scholars and ask them as to what is right and wrong.
Muhammad SAW himself laid down the foundational principals of democracy in medina through the constitutional that was misaaq e medina He entered in a political alliance with Jews and Christians, and he was the one who declare charter of human rights for the mankind, He was the one who declare the guarantee for the rights of the non-muslims and respect for their local laws and freedom of their religion and culture and everything. Now young people say all western democracy is kufr which is not. They have democratic right to criticize but this is not pure democracy, no right, but you are given the full right to peaceful discussion, Go enter into the political process , go in the process of vote, go to the court, act through parliament, raise your voice ,all these things have mentioned in hadith, you have rights but peaceful rights. In a peaceful manner, but leaving the peaceful ways away, taking up the arm and declare democracy is kufr, it means you are rejecting the tradition of holy prophet (SAW) . Abu Huraira R.A narrated a hadith: The opinion of two is better than one, the opinion of three is better than two, 4 is better than 3, 5 is better than 4. And this majority is known as jamaa`t. And Allah places the hand of protection for jamaa`t. When u say democracy is kufr, it means u don`t know what our prophet (SAW) preaching. There is no hadith, or verse in the Quran in which holy prophet (SAW) has stated that umma is bound to establish one khalifa for the whole world. They don`t even know the meaning of khalifa, just head of the state is known as khalifa. Whether there is a president in a presidential form or prime minister in a parliamentary form. They are putting whole umma in trouble. They have been given totally wrong interpretation. One khilafa for whole umma was never required in Islam. Khilafa means Islamic system, Islamic rules in a country.
Simple: Democracy has never been allowed to flourish in the Middle East because the West wants full access to the petroleum resources of the region. Arab Secularism was a rising set of movements in the region after WWII but was crushed by the USA and UK. Secular nationalist countries were cut off from the international community and were made into pariah states one by one, culminating in the USA's violent bombing of Libya in 2011. Democracy in the Middle East has been tried many times but has been crushed by external forces.
Shabir Ali Because state is for everybody, church is for a few and each group thinks differently. If we're going to get along, keep fairy tales out of government.
Lone Wolf I know right? Should I take the sticker of mohammed of from my dog's food bowl you think? -- In all fairness, I got the bowls at a garage sale from somebody that had a dog named mohammed. He died mysteriously said the owner.
+Oscar Gonzalez +Shabir Ali. You are so right Oscar Gonzalez. State affairs are for all people of all religions, and so no one religion has the right to dominate state affairs. Religions are simply mystery schools that tell fairy tales, and must be kept out of state affairs.
What many Westerners, especially Americans, don't understand is that they carry their beliefs in liberal and secular democracy with devout religious fervor, while lacking sufficient understanding of the history of cultures, political or religious thought to approach this debate with an open mind or ear.
The Pakistani man and the Tunisian woman made a lot of great points. I wish the Pakistani man was given more time to speak. He has a lot of wisdom to share!
Islam and democracy r poles apart from each other..Islam is a complete code of life,even politics r derived from Islam...Islam directs us about the supremacy of Allah Almighty and run with the help of messengers,Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and then His appointed Mola or Imam..
Democracy, without freedom or individual rights, is pretty much just a repeat of Greek Democracy, where you can still have a slave population and a free population, and still call it Democratic. And I use "individual rights" as opposed to "human rights" because it emphasizes the fact that the individual could be hated, despised, and in violation of everything his society admires, and still, his rights are protected, and the government is burdened to protect his rights. Once you understand that, and you understand that when we talk about democracy today, we are not talking about the Greek version, but the Enlightenment Version, you realize it can only exist where there is a secular government, and that is what is being resisted in much of the Islamic world. It is the right not to be a Muslim, and the right not to have to abide by Sharia or Islamic Law, but only the rights that all individuals are bound to abide by that matters. It's the freedom to criticize Islam as a non-muslim, with the knowledge that your rights are protected even if it incesses people, that's what liberal democracy is, and that is what the majorities in these countries don't want to defend, and which is why their democracies do not produce modern results, because it based on ancient understandings of the concept.
Prophet Muhammad (SM) & his followers (khilafa system) showed the best model of Islamic governance beautifully in the history of the world.If you go through history,you'll better understand.Democracy isn't a ideology but a system where Islam isn't only a religion but it's a ideology & it's a complete code of both individual and national life.And Islam maintains people's opinion regarding voting system & acceptance of any laws which is similar to democracy.
...well for me as a Westener not so much Islam as a different religion, but the fat that Muslims have not gone through reformation is the problem. How can you have democracy when people interpret religious script literally six centuries on???
The form of islam now being followed in many parts of the world in islamic and non islamic countries is the Saudi backed wahabi which teaches a strict interpretation. It also opposes democracy in favour of sharia law. Imagine Saudi law spreading into western countries. This could be reality within 20-30 years with the current birth rates. Belgium could be one of the first to feel the effects. I sam a british sikh guy, born in the uk and proud to be British but i can see my kids when they are older with their own kids looking to emigrate back to india if islam is not driven back.
Btw: stoning is not as easy as one may thing! Those who stone women they are practicing Islam in the wrong way! That's why Allah swt says if u want to accuse anyone of adultery or Zina or any wrong doings of this nature to have four witnesses who actually seen a man and a woman in the actual act of having an affair like literally seeing a man and a woman doing the actual act or din if u know what've mean! So u see Allah swt from his mercy made it so hard that no one can actually get caught even if they maybe sinful bc their and everyone's sin is with Allah swt and he deals with the sinful as he pleases and he doesn't want that type of sin to come out in public and ruin the communities! By placing such rules to have four witnesses of male is a rahma a blessing from Allah swt so that no ones sin is or should be revealed in public meaning people should stay away from spreading such rumors even if they see a sinful man and a women and let Allah swt deal with them! Bc chances are that
There is definitely an incompatibility between democracy and Islam. For democracy to work properly, there has to be a separation of religion and politics - a separation of the sacred from the temporal. In the West, we talk of the separation of Church and State. Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, and unto God, that which belongs to God. Islam doesn't recognise such a separation. In Islam, religion and politics are one integrated whole. Furthermore, in Islam, all power rests with Allah, and then filters down to the people through His vicegerents. By contrast, in a properly-functioning democracy, power filters up from the people, the demos, to the ruler. This is a difficult circle to square.
Separating religion from politics ~ Has nothing to do with “ liberal values “ ~ If you are a follower of Allah ~ Then you need to stop the politics ! ~ Because Allah is not political ! ~ Also the word secular means nonreligious ~ If you have a secular attitude ~ It means you take a nonreligious ~ Spiritual approach to life ~ For instance I can be inspired by greed to be selfish or I can be inspired by love to be kind ~ A secular approach to life can be a negative thing or a positive thing ~ It all depends on what inspires you ~ A religious approach to life ~ Is often times narrow minded and dogmatic ~ A secular approach to life ~ Is open minded and subject to change ~ If things don’t work out right ~
..I am Iranian and I am against blasphemy law and sharia law. We must fight against sharia law by all means land, water 💧, air and ideas. Soon houthi ,isis, Hamas and hezbullah backed by Iran will destroy Mecca and medina
Islam means peace, and is the solution of the problems of humanity, Islam is against the oppression of women and discrimination against women, non-Muslims, Islam is against the murder, robbing, terrorism, killings, etc, but I am sorry most most people learn Islam from the media and other people who don't know Islam or who are against Islam. But I am happy, and whatever happens to the Muslims, still Islam is the most spreading religion in the world, especially in West countries.
It's hilarious how the Egyptian critic is not for "majority rules" politics. Isn't that what democracy in all its essence is? Islam and democracy and compatible. Liberal democracy however is a very different story. A conservative model however would be perfect.
Half truth. Democracy leads to corruption & slow destruction of every country - The real meaning of views of Plato & Aristotle on Democracy. Those Muslim countries who refuse western slavery gift called democracy & interest based banking are deliberately destabilized...
+Maruf Sajjad yes. Just like claiming that Islam is great, conflicting with the facts that Islamic states are amongst the worst places in the world to live.
"I have left two matters with you. As long as you hold to them, you will not go the wrong way. They are the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet."
So tell me, which Arabic version of the quran do you use and why that one? Or do you not even know that there are some 40 different versions of the Arabic quran we know of? Of course all these qurans were written by unknown authors. And how do you deal with all the mistakes, discrepancies, inconsistencies and contradictions in that quran as well as the approval of evil such as raping women who have been captures in battle (surah 33:50) which is adultery and wife beating (surah 4:34) as well as child marriage (surah 65:4) which means that Mohammed and his allah approved of raping little prepubescent girls. And we see that Mohammed led by example when he married a 6 year old child and then raped that child when it was just 9 years old. Clearly Mohammed disqualified himself as a prophet of GOD by the evil he perpetrated. And remember all of islam is only based what Mohammed maybe recited and how he lived. So tell me, why do you even believe that you will be with GOD in heaven on judgement day when you follow Mohammed? And do show the quran verses on which you base your belief. Remember our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible promises every person that if they accept Jesus as their saviour and follow what Jesus commanded until they die, they will be with GOD in heaven. As Mohammed claimed to be the final prophet, surely he promised the same for people who follow Mohammed? If not where does it leave you my friend?
well i think one of the biggest flaws of democracy is that the power is given to the people... which I interpret as simply being a person entitles you the powers and rights of democracy. but I prefer technocracy and meritocracy, where power on the state is entitled to those who are qualified, whether in merits or profession, not by simply being a person.
Well, one big problem is Al Jazeera, who always sidesteps the real issues to maintain a different agenda in the focus of their audience. Joseph Goebbels would be proud of you.
Mona stop declaring yourself as a Muslim, we saw u many speeches tht ur saying "I'm also Muslim".......and ur against any verse that Quran says. So stop ur fake declaration.
agree all of these people never mention the most important is doing the will of Allah, not the will of people etc, these people watch media not Quran, they ask media not Allah
Where's Indonesia? You can't talk about Islam and Democracy without discussing Indonesia. We're the most successful Muslim-majority Democratic country on earth.
We keep making the assumption that democracy is a GOOD thing and the BEST idea about how to run a country. Perhaps if we let it, the east could develop a NEW idea, a BETTER one. Plus the pressures on the east vs the west are different, they have a different culture, religion, topography, etc.. Thus it might not actually be the best for them to even be a democracy ever considered that?
Just look at China. That country might serve as a role model of how a country can become both prosperous and stable without the need to pretend it's a formal democracy.
+Obadyahu al-Qaynuqai hezbollah is just a small party within the lebanese parlement. at the last elections the pro western coalition won the majority. kuwait i don't know anything about, but yoh could be right there
This is not to say that the tradition of ethics and morality at the heart of all religions should be tossed with the dirty bathwater of irreligious dogma and distortion.
Then if you think Islam is all about what you said, you are wrong, Islam means peace, and is the solution of the problems of humanity, Islam is against the oppression of women and discrimination against women, Jews and non-Muslims, the murder, robbing, terrorism, killings, etc, but I am sorry most most people learn Islam from the media and other people who don't know Islam or who are against Islam. But I am happy, and whatever happens to the Muslims, still Islam is the most spreading religion in the world, especially in West countries.
Well, how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin? They are a million miles from anything remotely democratic. Where's the discussion around jobs, business, health, taxation, state vs private sector, the future of young people, population growth, emigration (of educated elites?), women's rights, minority rights, access to the law, benefits etc etc? The role of Islam is peripheral to ALL of this. When it becomes the focus of debate there is simply no democracy however much these guys like to think it's important. Hey ho........
These guys are fooling themselves and those countries they purport to speak about if they seriously believe life is going to get any better if the state give authority to clerics, introduces stoning and amputation, building mosques and madrassas, and "rights" that have not evolved for 1400 years etc etc. The Islamist agenda is just substituting one form of authoritarianism with another. It doesn't address any of the issues that might impact on people.
Islam and being a Muslim and some degree Christianity( specially Orthodoxic and catholic church ) moralizes entitlement to virtue and civil rights while liberal democracy and in practice pluralism rationalizes entitlement to virtue and civil rights . why a society or community or an individual cant be rational but rather moral , brings up this discussion that morality and value based mentality and consciousness vs rationality and reason based mentality and consciousness could be the grounding features . this value based consciousness and reason based consciousness in my view epigenetic . This could finally bring us to this discussion that if one defines constructivism as a conscious working model reaching from rationality to value while if one defines structuralism as conscious working model reaching from value to rationality ; then liberal democracy evolves and flourish individually if the epigenetic conscious working model of a society member is based on constructivism rather than structuralism.
