It’s Vibrating When Braking & It’s Not the Rotors. How to Test! (Nissan Versa) 

the fact that you were transparent about having the customer return multiple times until you finally resolved the issue- and then taking us through the process while openly admitting "this is on us" - much respect. I would always tell my kids; "I don't care of you make a mistake- just be honest about it - no excuses, then make it right". Thanks for doing this video.

If you suspect this, mark the high spot and low spot on the rotor with chalk marks. Remove the rotor and turn it 180 degrees and remeasure. If the high and low spots stay the same, it's the rotor. If it runout changes on the rotor when the rotor is repositioned on the hub, it's the hub. Measuring the hub directly isn't always easy or even possible depending on tool.

Most mechanic shops have glorified part changers as techs. It's nice to see a professional process of diagnosis

I have high respect for shop owners and techs that acknowledge if something was done incorrectly and not only take responsibility for their work but also share their mistake(s) with others so everyone else can be aware. Amazing work guys! I’m sure you guys will be blessed with more work to come with people looking for genuine and honest techs as yourselves! Keep up the good work!

90% of the shop will not do this kind of troubleshooting nor have all the tools to troubleshoot like you did. Awesome job!

The sign of a great leader, accountability. You my friend are a great leader.

Easiest way is on vehicles with re-repair or come in with vibration is my method. Hang the dial indicator, find the high spot on the rotor, mark it. Rotate 180 degrees. Measure again. If the high spot is in the same spot, its the rotor. If it follows the hub, its the hub. It takes longer to read this, than to measure it.

Next to the technical advice/tips, your humility in admitting your mistake and rectifying the problem were beyond admirable, professional and refreshing! Bravo sir!

This is getting into star wars territory. When the camera angle changed I was not expecting to see braided hair on the mechanic.....Definitely got me 😮

1st! I want to applaud you for admitting that this was something you should have done from the start instead of just switching out parts. I mainly work on all my own cars (For 30+ years now) But there are times I take it to the shop because I have no time or a lift. Knowing that you may have been busy and the few times you did get caught with a problem that wasn't an easy fix you decided to video it for us. So we know where the mistake was made and how to look at it from a different angle is a great service and teaching tool for the public. (Me included) I will use that as I add more videos to my channel as well. Thank you for teaching and sharing your experience.

More mechanics should be like you. Its a mark of professionalism to admit your mistakes and implement corrections.

I had this on a Honda Civic once,A bent hub was common back in the 90s!! Thats why those rotor cutters that used to be mounted to the spindles were so cool 😂😂😂

I see a couple of things you should have done before to start the check. Firstly you should have installed the 4 nut, not 2, in the opposite way, the cone side away from the disc and tighten them up to specifications. Now, you will get a more accurate reading...

As a mobile mechanic, this is my chosen main focus. Every surface that is machined, is inspected, cleaned, and if appropriate, a moisture barrier applied. I'm a Rust Belt mechanic... attention to detail really matters!

Love to see a shop doing things the right way, looking up spec and measuring.

I want to compliment you on this video and explanation of a fundamental that most mechanics are never taught as apprentices in school (Canada) or anywhere else as the mechanics they apprentice under were never taught this nor the previous one in the "chain" of mechanic-apprentice-mechanic-apprentice on and on. As an engineer, I was teaching this in my shop(s) as far back as the beginning of disc brake useage in late 70's. Also, I taught that anyone taking a measurement of ANY kind had to WRITE IT DOWN when taken...ALWAYS... so errors became almost non existent. Additionally, all such measurements and final machining measurements were RECORDED and transferred to work order as a permanent record that the CUSTOMER ALSO RECEIVED. (Costly? NO! It made technicians alert and careful and saved them time when it became the SHOP STANDARD PROCEDURE. ) Even flat-rate technicians found it saved them time on come-backs which virtually disappeared and the shop saved even more in customer goodwill and loyalty. Quality doesn't COST, properly done, it SAVES! Again, great training video!

Great video! Additionally, improper wheel nut torquing will cause brake pulsations...

I rarely comment on RU-vid videos but you sir are teaching us all a master class on the proper way of doing things. I’m retired from my professional career but have taken on auto repair as a retirement hobby. I’ve made the commitment to learning these things and having the right tools to do the job. Your videos are a fantastic resource for someone like me who isn’t on the clock and wants to do it right. One thing you may not be aware of is every time you use a tool or a shop supply, I make it a point to order it immediately. Really appreciate your recommendations in this area. Keep up the fantastic work! This is great stuff!

I experienced a vibration issue when braking. while work was been done to replace front wheel disc, it was discovered that the problem was due to one of the two caliper guide bolts on the driver’s side being slightly bent. This bent bolt was creating friction, which in turn led to the vibration when I applied pressure on the brake pedal. The discovery of the bent guide bolt was quite strange and unexpected. Unfortunately, I had already purchased a new disc and brake pad, which, as it turns out, were unnecessary. Sharing experience to ensure others can be aware of this possibility when experiencing vibration.

I rarely go to a shop unless I have no way to do it myself, and it is mostly because I don't trust them. Too many do terrible work and won't stand behind it. After seeing this video I'd take my take my vehicles to you. You took the time to investigate and not just part swap and obviously held yourselves accountable for the lack of investigation from the previous fix. All that earned my trust. Too bad you are 7-8 hours away!

Salt belt tip, in case useful to someone... I coat the rotor and wheel contact faces with anti-seize to prevent rust sticking them together (could do the same with rotor to hub rust you mentioned here if it's an issue for you). Had enough tire changes over the years where I had to kick a tire loose from the rust. Can be problematic if you find yourself having to change a flat or something on the side of the road. Zero problems, always easy removal since anti-seize coating.

Its good to know that you guys are eating the cost of the repair, since you missed diagnosed and did an unnecessary repair. I stopped going to mechanics when a shop wanted to charge me to change parts, they didn't know the problem, so they wanted replace what they thought the problem was. When I asked " If that doesn't fix the problem, are you going to charge me?" When he said "Yes". I left without the letting them touch my car. Fixed it myself and never went back to a mechanic again it has been good 20 years.

Always check Your New Rotors on a Brake Lathe to see if they are warped. A lot of times I have found when they have been sitting 10 high on a shelf they can get warped and have a lot of runout. I always check and take off a couple of thousands with a finish cut on all the New Rotors I install.You would be surprised how many new Rotors are out if tolerance from the factory! I have also had to cut and clean up the bearing hub because of runout like you found in this video. Great video and thanks for sharing! 👍

Back in my day of working mostly on cars, in the 70's and 80's,, when we ordered new rotors, the small family owned parts shop we used also had a machine shop that would take the new rotors out of the box and at least check them for true and lightly machine them if needed. They did that free of charge to insure we got a good product and help prevent come backs.

Honesty is ALWAYS the best route. I know your customers appreciate you. And we need more like you and your team. I learned alot and have missed this before on my hotrods.

Simple fix turn the rotors on the car! There are several tool manufacturers . Quick way lathe is the best. If you turn or machine the rotors on the car it trues all hub run out! It’s most important on front wheel drive. I can’t believe your going to all this trouble! 😂

Years ago when I was short of money I had this problem, I used aluminium cooking foil to shim it and reduce the run out, it worked fine, eventually...😉

Great Video 👍 you stand by your repairs which is great to see. Your customers are lucky to have you.

Much respect for you sir. Good catch on that hub. I'm surprised with how much runout it had that it wasn't rumbling during driving. Something I encountered was brake shudder on the front right wheel of my 2005 Nissan Altima with standard brakes. The hub was good, rotor was within spec, yet I'd still get occasional shudder. Then I learned about hard spots that can form on cast iron rotors due to overheating the rotor. The hard spots are called cementite, and once this forms, the rotor is basically unsalvageable and needs to be replaced. I replaced the rotor and the shudder disappeared. I believe that I may have inadvertently overheated the rotor when I was bedding in new brake pads.

as a mechanic with 32 years experience i can tell you that if it's not the rotor it is almost always a hub issue. one thing to do first before even check runout is to check for any wheel bearing play. even the slightest wheel bearing play will cause issues with runout and vibrations. but be aware that even if a rotor is new it is still possible it can be damaged in transport. my shop used to get parts from a few different parts houses and i would on occasion get rotors in a damaged box. you could see it had clearly been dropped. so i would throw it on the brake lathe and check the runout there before putting on the car anything close to or over the max runout that parts house was called to send another and take back the first they sent us. do like how they presented this problem and explained how to diagnose the problem.

For almost 3 years after i purchased this truck in CarMax, i have been thinking 🤔 is it the hub? Never change it. I kept changing my rotors. I am glad i saw this video. Thank you so much.

I've been stung by this on my own 9n polo after never seeing it in 15 years mechanicing. Brake vibration that only happened after driving at sustained speed. Didn't bother diagnosing. Just went ahaed and deglazed the pads, cleaned/relubed pins and skimmed the discs. Fixed it for about 2000km. I remembered an older tech telling me about mr2' having really lightweight hubs and if you didn't torque wheel bolts, you would get brake vibes from hub runout. Checked my hubs with a dial gauge. Sure enough. Runout at all 5 bolt holes. Without doubt, a victim of a tyre shop rattle gun wizard somewhere in it's life. It got worse after freeway driving because of the heat of the bearing transfering into the hub itself. 4 new hubs, 4 new discs, always torqued wheels = 100k km trouble free.

i do machining and auto Tech for 30 for years both jobs at my shop , both trades complement each other. if you would have moved your axle shaft up and down while watchig your dial indicator you might have saw something else also , so if the bearing play was off you would see it also, maybe look at that the next time. but i do think you are correct with your findings. At 66yoa i think way different than i use to. molecule size and leaks its fascinating to start thinking on a different level. the deeper you think the more things make sense

100% correct, in my shop we use the on car Pro-Cut brake lathe you should try it. Will perform the cut with tighter run-out tolerance really has helped us with vibration issues.

Nice work. Thorough, professional, to the point and easy to understand.

My Dad has been fighting with a vibration while braking with his Avalanche. Pads and rotors changed and still vibrates. Thanks for the heads up on the hub, I wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

This is called 'operational excellence'. This man will be very succesfull with this mindset.

A good tech using a on car brake lathe would have found that bent hub. Ive had customers shake my hand saying thank you, my brakes havnt been right since my accident or ive had this car for 20 years your the first mechanic to actually fix my brakes

First time viewer and I really loved the video. I've been a lifelong hobbyst (so far from a professional), but I still learned something. I also like how you guys didn't skip over some of the details a lot of tutorials tend to gloss over. Really helps one understand the fundamentals of a job like this. Thanks for putting this out there!

Solid video professor. Valuable lesson. We know the right thing to do but we are also running a business. Kinda of challenging to do for every vehicle. Most garage dont even have precision tools.

Long ago I had a 85 mustang gt. I had pulsating brakes so I took the rotors to autozone and had them turned (machined) they actually used to do that. The brakes felt fine for a week or 2 then start again. So off to the zone to be turned again, they would often do it while you wait, while they were turning them I could hear 2 different alternating sounds from the cutter, as a machinist I knew something wasn't right. When they finished I could see an area on the rotor exactly the same size and shape as the brake pad . That area had somehow got hardened and did not wear down like the rest of the rotor, the soft area would wear and become thinner causing brake pulsating. I guess the rotors had got hot just before parking the car and the pad caused it to cool slower and somehow hardened the rotor.

While I do as much of my car repairs as possible, I would not hesitate to let your shop work on my vehicles due to your honesty. One of the main reasons I started doing my own work was due to shoddy work at labor rates pushing $200 an hour.

You guys are the best and we’re all human! People are in a hurry to get their cars and we have a lot to do. It’s an honest mistake! It doesn’t happen very often like that from what I’ve seen. Thanks for the videos you guys do a great job on your videos, and I can’t wait to see more! So glad I found you guys on RU-vid!❤

Good video! Thank you for showing the “mistake”. I think 99.9% of shops would have thought it was the rotors, as would I. Good learning experience for all. Not to mention a reminder that I need to invest in a good dial indicator!

Very envious of the car owners who are lucky enough to be in your area.

Great to know the proper procedure. But very rarely you’re going to find shops who going to go that extra mile. You’re a one of kind.

Thank you for this presentation as I never checked the rotor or hub measurements when I changed them in the past. Also when you emphasized how minute dirt inside the rotor can affect the measurement and need to clean all debris out in which I bet many DIY mechanics never think about.

Excellent video, and very thorough inspection. I have always done my own brakes and never inspected hubs or rotors for runout, I will be checking from now.

Thanks for sharing this . This is what’s happening to my wife’s Honda Pilot and I couldn’t figure why I’m still getting pulsating pedal after replacing rotors . Great video

Most guys just swap pads and rotors and keep it moving just to save time. I can't stand pulsating steering during high-speed braking and always been an issue for me on FWD cars. I learned something new today. Thank you.

People rarely give consideration to the flange condition of the hub axle. The hub flange run out will exacerbate the run out of the disc. Good video !

Honest mechanics are hard to come by these days in my experience...at least in my area of East Texas. I've come to the realization that if I have the tools to do it myself, the cost vs risk (of screwing up) is definitely in my favor compared to taking it to one of the shops near me that just throw parts at a problem until the problem stops instead of properly diagnosing. I recently replaced my 2011 s197's rotors and pads, and discovered "runout". I got lucky after the fact because my braking wobble/vibration did stop with the rotor/pad replacement. I cup brushed and cleaned my hubs, but tbh they were so clean and rust free to begin with that all 4 OEM rotors came loose as soon as the caliper brackets were removed. I placed the new and old rotors back to back, one by one, lining up the lug holes, rotating the new rotor one lug hole at a time until the two rotors had the most contact with each other (least amount of gaps/light between the touching rear braking planes). This tells you where the old rotor was low or - then the new brake was high or + because the new brake filled in the space where the old brake had a valley and then turned the new rotor 180° to account for the mirror effect. The old rotor had a mark across 1 of the stud holes and studs from when the factory did the runout test and marked each rotors position for quick future indexing. I transferred that mark to the new "shade tree" indexed rotor and then indexed the new rotors to the correct stud when installing. I now know there are a multitude of reasons why this was a total waste of time, but it made sense when I was doing it, and like I said, whether it was pure dumb luck or if there was some truth to what I was doing, it seemed to work because there is ZERO wobble, shudder, or vibration where there was a severe one prior. 🤷🏻

Great content....teaching the young guys how to properly check for run-out

Smart fella. He's is son doesn't stay behind. Extremely smart.🙏😉🇺🇸

Nice to see someone who can admit they made an error instead of trying to cover it up.

What an awesome video!! I love that you have your kids involved also ❤....as a mechanic myself I can count on one hand how many times I checked the hub runout on a car. 99.8% of the time its a rotor. Dont be hard on yourself man. I think all of us here would have had the same problem. Thanks for posting this 😊

An honest real-world vid, with some good trouble shooting info. Shows how what some would think is just a strait-forward brake job can get complicated.

It's nice when the boss is really into the technical stuff and quality outputs, not just cracking a whip for production. Also, I like that he goes his own way with that hairdo. :) Seems like a pretty cool guy and a good business owner.

One other thing that could be: I had an 05 CRV with same symptoms and after several agonizing attempts to repair, it turned out to be a faulty ABS module. That's right, a leaky valve in the ABS module can feel just like a worn out rotor.

Great information. Have you ever used an oncar brake lathe? ProCut brake lathes has been addressing this issue for 35 years. Cleaning up the stack tolerances from hubs, bearings, and rotors. Small car hubs distort from overtightened lug nuts(the tech that installs wheels with an impact). Problem solved in 5-8 minutes per hub/rotor.

Subscribed. One of the most objective lectures I have ever heard. From a hobbyist standpoint this is extremely useful. Thank you!

detailed a very good explaination of how the rotors could cause a vibration

This is why I am a huge advocate for on car brake lathes. Being completely honest there are many mechanics out there who don't even have the knowledge or time to do these checks, and cutting the rotor on the car will remove any runout whether its from the hub or the rotor no brainwork required. With good bits runout after cutting ends up around .0005" on the car normally. Not the best solution for a warped hub but I'd argue better than what many end up with, as long as the rotor is thick enough to reuse

Excellent video. One more thing to check before messing with the hubs. Note how tight the the rotor fits over the hub and hub bolts. If tight, clean up the rotor holes to the lugs and rotor center hole. There needs to be a little bit of play when putting the rotor onto the hub. This solved my vibration problem when pressing on the brake pedal.

I have an 07 Jag that keeps warping rotors this has to be the situation! No one else talks about this! Thanks!!

I just saved this to my playlist. Amazing video Sir.

What a great video. Excellent camera work & explanations. I like how you mentioned it was our mistake. I haven't sent a rotor out to be cut in years. They are cheap enough & too thin to cut these days. I thought for sure it was the new rotor. Some of the really cheap ones come warped out of the box. Look forward to more videos, great job!!!

Good info here and nice to see how the automotive industry, in some cases, approach maint. As a commercial aircraft mechanic of 25 years, it's SOP (standard operating procedure) to suspect every part when we have a problem, right out the gate...not just one part or piece but everything that could possibly be associated.

as a master Tech I completely Trust the shop. He did everything right. Here's a warning, stay away from All Chain stores. From lube places all the way to Over hall's.

Excellent presentation by an experienced tech. I`ll bet that left wheel hit a curb at speed. Thank you.

You can replace the little tip on your indicator so the lug studs don’t hit , just get a longer tip and you will be happier

This is honesty and professionalism at the highest 😅

I just replaced my rear rotors for the 3rd time in 3 years last night. I'm not a hard driver, but couldn't find a reasonable explanation for it either. This is great. Thank you for the video.

I always use high carbon rotors which seems to help avoid runout. This was a good teaching video on the subject.

Im very pleased with your presentation. I used to be a machinist back in 1990's decade working first on manual then later on CNC machines. Calipers and Mics are basic tools to find the cause of unparalelism and other anomalies of material. Everyday precise calibration of tools guaranties correct results proper action. Thanx for very proffesional approach . Cheers

Great info! I’d like to add to this…always apply all the lug nuts during a runout test…

Really good video! Quality information. Not too long and not too short. Kudos to the camera guy too for excellent work. He was right where he needed to be 99% of the time, a good balance between being close enough but not too close.

Before replaceing the hub, check the ballbearing inside the hub, as it might get worn and you can have deviation from it too......its very hard to warp that hub and its easier to worn out a ballbearing

This is why I love the internet. it gives a chance to see honest professionals who want to teach. Royalty IS Royalty. Excellent people

Wow! Gotta say as a technician, I definitely have overlooked this in the past. Great video! 👍🏼

This is why some manufacturers recommend resurfacing rotors on the car to ensure that any run out from the wheel hub is taken into account and adjusted for.

Much respect on your honesty. Viewing from Newfoundland. Beyond the rust belt.

As a former brake engineer, I can tell you with near certainty that brake "roughness" is nearly 100% caused by rotor THICKNESS variation, the difference in runout between inner and outer brake plate.of the rotor. You would have to measure the inner and outer rotor surface in phase of each other to get this measurement. Some vehicles are sensitive to 20 microns of thickness variation, which is 0.0008 inches, and hard to capture on a dial indicator. When you have brake roughness, replace the rotors and brake pads, and it will go away - for a while anyway.

Great video. I learned something new. As far as rotors go, I just buy new ones. They are cheap enough these days and, in my experience, turned rotors don't last as long.

19 May 24: Absolutely outstanding video. Extremely helpful, informative, detail, great filming, explaining. Thank you not dumbing down the value training lesson to the viewer. I truly appreciate it. My kids and I have learned from this video. I have shared this video with many others. Keep them coming. 😉👍🏻🙏🏻✝️🇺🇸

I appreciate you taking responsibility. Me being a car guy I wouldn’t blame you for the rotor ordeal. I would have done the same thing. Truth is the owner didn’t say hey I hit something hard and I’m only a few min in and I already know he has a warped hub or something but an honest customer goes a long way

That was very informative. I've never run across that particular problem. Usually the brakes would pulsate only when the rotors were hot and stop when they cooled down.

Good video. Glad you mentioned that runout will increase the further from center. When measuring the hub or rotor measure as far out as possible. I noticed you measured the rotor towards the center. In such an extreme case as this car it doesn't matter, but if someone is checking for a less severe problem, measuring in the center of the rotor could give a false negative.

Nobody checks for runout any more. Just keep replacing rotors because it usually takes a few thousand miles for the judder to develop as the pads keep hitting the high spot, and leave deposits, then sell them another one. Its a Racket. Driver is always blamed for a "warped" rotor by braking too hard lol. It's impossible to warp a rotor they are cast at temps far exceeding any temperature that can be created by braking. Ask Highway patrol mechanics, and even the brake manufacturers. Warped rotors are a myth its always runout that will usually cause disc thickness variation and judder. Thank you Sir for your honesty.

Good video, brings me back to my automotive Tech school days when we actually learned these procedures. If it's a come back for the same issue and it was determined a misdiagnosis as identified in this case, the rebate or credit should be for prior parts and work performed, NOT what is required to replace the hub, since those parts and associated labor is a valid cost to the customer. The credit should be for parts and labor performed to replace rotors during previous repair that were misdiagnosed as the issue.

A short extension for the plunger of your dial indicator would make it a bit easier to avoid the wheel studs. Yup, they make them, and they can be had cheap too.

The number one reason your hub is warp is due to NOT USING A TORQUE WRENCH ON THE LUG NUTS ! Check your guys when tightening down the wheels .

Much appreciated for you honesty and passing onto us good knowledge based upon your experience.

I just got my ase brake certification and this information you gave put me further ahead. Thank you

Use 10,000s of an inch dial indicator, digital ones work. Slightly hand circular sand the outer ede surface of the hub to remove rust. You will get an accurate reading of the runout. If the hub is bent, you can use shims to fix the rotors, or you can place the rotors on and machine them on the car. Depending on how bad the rotor runout is, you can use shims to fix it. No need for a costly hub repair, but shims will be needed on every rotor change. Hint: You can make your own shims using the cheapest aliminum foil and a micrometer to offset the runout.

Keep an eye out for rotor thickness from center venting to surface. I've been running into a bad batch lately where the center vent will wobble visibly when turned while the braking surface itself is perfect.

Fascinating video! Been watching a ton of car repair videos, but all of this video’s content was new for me. Cheers!

This time you were very thorough in detecting the deviation on the hub........and explaining how it will amplify with the greater radius in the rotor when fitted. Usually, in some videos, I would find some explanation a bit lacking, but I found no fault with yours. This was an excellent tutorial ! I suppose machining the hub to correct the runout is an option. I am sure that many mechanics will benefit from this video. Thanks and regards. Trinidad & Tobago. West Indies.

20 years ago only one in five was true and parallel brand new from local parts slinger. Some times I'd get 15 rotors for one car before they were true. other tech would just turn new rotors but then they are considered used not new.

We had similar issues on our Subaru Ascend, but it would only vibrate on heavy braking, coming down the mountains.