Agreed. I'd even argue that series 1-2 are actually the best of the show with regards to writing, partly because they weren't given enough money to have more thna a couple sets so the story and jokes had to do 100% of the work. I think series 7-9 were pretty weak and they had an ungodly amount of cash thrown at them in comparison to even series 6 which is most people's favourite largely because of "Gunmen of the Apocalypse". The "Dave" era of series 10+ were really good too, especially the very last scene of the show which is a shot for shot remake for the very first one, chefs kiss on that one.
Not sure if this has been changed in future script revisions, but I'm not sure how much I like that, as it reminds me of a pretty toxic meta that I played a game in where because a damsel was on the script, half the town browbeat the other half into everyone going around the circle claiming minion and picking themselves, thus neutralizing the Damsel. Granted it may be fine, as the Talky-toaster can't be public about it, at least directly, and it's not a once per game, and it comes at an opportunity cost of a day of more normal info, but it still strikes me the wrong way whenever it opens the opportunity for a meta where Good can browbeat Evil into losing some advantage by enforcing uniform conformity.
This existence of Holly should make a meta for people playing Mr Flibble. Choose a character and then wait a night before talking to them. If you get offered another pick you know they are still Holly (or you were droisoned), which is really valuable
Duane Dibleys and Skutters cause a weird interaction when all outsiders (Duane included) are dead, the demon is dead and Skutters are still alive. Very wild way to tie a game
yes that's a wild interaction. I imagine good would win in that scenario because in normal botc good wins ties but it's a very interesting situation to be in
Weird comment, but if on the off chance you ever want any Esperanto flavour text for this script (with Esperanto being a second-language used in the Red Dwarf ship), I'd be happy to help - I'm a fluent esperanto speaker, and have run Clocktower games _in_ esperanto at a number of international esperanto events! ... and now I'm tempted to, once this homebrew script is more finalised, translate it and run it _in_ esperanto for Maximum Nerd Experience, haha.
Havent watched this yet, but something I realized at the very start: The setup for Confidence, Paranoia and Kryten on the bottom are PERFECT for the Demon. If patters picks clockwise, Malashaan is not poisoned and learns a 0 (unless Ryan is poisoned) implying that Ellen is good and Patters' ability worked, but if Patters picks anticlockwise, Malashaan is poisoned and learns a 1, implying Ellen is good. Perfect! Edit: or however that ability works with the thumbs or whatever hahaha
I genuinely busted a gut when Reznora nominated Brendan, if they'd been very familiar with the script that would be a legitimate move by either a minion trying to get information shut down or a good player not wanting evil to be able to further their bluff, but right here, in this moment, that comedy of errors makes all connected to that nomination seem good while 2/3 are evil. Beautiful.
Re: the Mr. Flibble / Holly interaction being broken, that seems fine to me and in line with the point of Holly, but it did make me think about what exactly can pick Holly and get drunked... the actual bad interaction might be Inquisitor / Holly. As I read things: If both are in play, the Inquisitor by nature selects the Holly N1 and gets drunked from the moment they do. Then on later nights you'll have to decide whether the Inquisitor being drunked partway through picking the order means the picks stop killing people once they reach Holly.
Holly's ability doesn't work on the first night. The Inquisitor only picks on the first night. So there's no bad interaction there - but it does mean if Holly dies, then they either got double-picked or it's an Inquisitor for sure.
If Jesus dies before the final night and gets resurrected, they're basically confirmed not the demon and won't get executed on final day. If they choose to resurrect as Skutter then evil can't win.
Paranoia and Confidence are genuinely an interesting combo of demon and townsfolk. Having something similar in the "real" game would be really interesting I think.
If you ever need playtesters for this (and you don't mind me playing everything in character) I am SO there. Just so you can hear someone say Howdy Doodly Do properly.
This is hilarious. I'm an American who grew up on Red Dwarf reruns that played on PBS at like 1 in the morning with Doctor Who. The one kid at school who thinks its hilarious to call the other kids schmeg-heads while they're all just confused. Not the most popular nerd you can imagine lol
I still don’t understand why the Skutter - Demon pair is a win for good. No “good win” condition is met and it’s not like they can’t win, Skutter can still die, removing their ability.
The game ends when there are two players left, or the demon is dead. (excluding shenanigans like Mastermind, damsel, mayor etc.) Since the demon is alive, normally Evil would have won since they executed a non-demon in final three. However, the Skutter is also still alive, which means that Evil cannot win. This causes a tie, and good wins ties. I've always seen people attach a "generally" to the beginning of "good wins ties" but I can't actually remember a situation where evil wins a tie, so. Hopefully that clears things up a bit. Also useful to know for the normal game since there are ways to tie in BOTC as well though they are rare Edit: Apparently according to the book, the game doesn't end when there are two players left, Evil wins when there are two players left and the demon is alive, which is a big distinction because that means that you're right. The game would actually continue (Evil's win con is blocked by Skutter, the Demon is alive so good hasn't won, no win condition has been met) and the demon would just kill the Skutter. That's obviously not what Ben had intended though, so the Skutter should be reworded to fix that
Lyra is 100% right that the skutter is non-functional in a final 3. Suppose the 3 final characters are the demon, a townsfolk, and the skutter. If the demon is executed, then good wins. If the skutter is executed, then evil wins. If the townsfolk is executed, the state entering the night is that there is an alive demon (so good is not winning) and 2 players are alive (so evil is winning, but can't because of the alive skutter). Then the demon simply kills the skutter and wins. Ekin says "It would be a tie because there are two players left and the demon is still alive" as a reason for there being competing evil-good win cons that tie (and the skutter renders a good win), but that's just... not true. Evil is the one who wins with 2 living players. Normal games end with a evil-good wincon conflict when the demon is *dead* and two players live, whereas in this situation, the demon is *alive* and there are two living players. There is no good win condition occurring, so evil simply kills the skutter to remove that ability from play and wins that night. The only circumstance where the skutter is useful is if town executes on final 4, and the skutter survives the night. Then they wake up with 2 living players, the demon and the skutter, and town gets another chance to execute the demon.
9 месяцев назад
The game doesn’t indefinitely keep going, it ends with the evil win condition reached, which is two players left alive.
@ The evil twin reads that good cannot win while both twins live. If the demon dies while both twins live, then the good win condition is reached; does that mean the game immediately ends the moment the demon dies? No. It continues, because the team that is supposed to be winning, good, can't due to the twins. Similarly, if the skutter is one of 2 living players alongside the demon, the team that is winning, evil, cannot, but the game doesn't end. It continues to night, at which point the demon kills the skutter.
1:10:00 “It would be a tie because there are two players left and the Demon is still alive, but Evil cannot win, so Good wins.” Except Good wouldn’t have reached their win condition in this situation? As he said, the Demon is still alive.
The rulebook for BotC doesn’t say the game ends when there are two players left alive, it says evil wins when two players are left alive. That’s a key difference. There’s even precedent that a game can continue with only two living players; in Bad Moon Rising, if a Mastermind is alive when a Demon is executed in final three, the game continues for another day with final two.
@@NumdegasedUHC Huh, interesting take. Though that would make the Skutter useless so I think it's better to rule it the other way, or maybe reword Skutter.
I don't care if it is a bad game or a good one, I am just thrilled that it is a Red Dwarf reference. I remember the days of it on public television in America. "They're dead Dave!"
Isn't it better to turn Jesus' ability into a "once per game"? Resurrecting into a Washing Machine the final night sounds a bit too powerful. Also, if Jesus resurrects on the final night it will no longer be the final night, which means he shouldn't ressurect. But if he doesn't, it's the final night so he should resurrect... Maybe reword it into "if there are three players alive at night, Jesus is resurrected" and have it go after the demon kill?
@@vastowen4562 Being able to pick a new ability is way more powerful than just having it be once per game. Also, thinking about it the ability would be much funnier if he was drunk for the rest of the game if he was resurrected, which would have the same effect as making it once per game, but would interact with other abilities and let you make jokes about drunk Jesus and turning water into wine.
Suggestion for "the unspeakable one": have the ability still function post-mortem, because that way even if you're executed you still have an impact on the game.
I'm curious, what's the Duane Dibley Skutter interaction like in the endgame? With a dead Duane Dibley and a living Skutter alongside a living demon in final 2. Who wins?
I think the only clarification that needs to be had is whether the demon still does once per night kills while dead with Duane protection. If it can, then it just kills the Skutter at night and wins.
After reading through the characters, I've realised that Lister can be really powerful. Especially if you manage to only pick townsfolk. Because if all three are townsfolk you have pretty much confirmed that all three are good. There's only one Demon and 1-2 minions. Mr Flibble increases minion count, but it also means if Lister manages to pick 3 minions later in the game, once one of them has been found out, the other 2 are confirmed evil. Only the Vindaloo beast increases the outsider count, so if Lister hits 3 outsiders, they now know what the Demon is.
Duane dibley increases outsider count, and Mr Flibble doesn't increase the minion count. If Lister picks two townsfolk and the demon, then they might just learn "one character type between them" because they get drunk info, so you can't hard confirm it.
@@Karnatil Did you watch the video? Mr Flibble definitely increases the minion count. How else do you explain Lyra being turned into a minion? It was an 11 player game which means they only had 1 starting minion.
@@Zedja A game with 10, 11 or 12 players has two minions. Mr Flibble meant they only had one, instead of the normal two, until Mr Flibble had increased the minion count to what it should've been.
@@Hix108 No, the players don't get the data until the Storyteller sends it. The Storyteller has the opportunity to modify the grimoire before sending it out, but after the system arranges the tokens. Or at least this should be the case. For instance, in the situation of the Lunatic. I said distributed, not sent out. The distinction is important. If you don't want to have the setup influence which characters you transform into Dwayne Dibleys, just decide before the tokens are distributed which ones will be transformed, transform them during setup, and then send out the tokens.
I guess it makes a difference for Kryten (Kryten learns whether their neighbors are sober, drunk or poisoned), but I'm not sure how that affects the game all that much.
Jimothy can protect Flim Flam from the Bobblerox and afterwards Jesus can drunk the gobblegook from the toaster, but only if she first is adjacent to Burtrude. This is what it sounds like. Pure nonsense.
Hate to break it to you Rob, but it seems like you're in the minority on this one. This has been one of the most viewed/liked/positively commented on videos of the last couple of years. I'm afraid you'd best brace yourself for monthly appearances from Flim Flam and Bobblerox. - Ben
Can I suggest the "Worry Balls" townsfolk Which undo the effects of drunkeness or poisoning for 600 years "Rimmer Clone" minion which can choose to become the demon in the night but in the morning the original demon is dobbed in by the storyteller And "Starbug" outsider which deflects or does some cool flips or something
@@vastowen4562 truee Perhaps - the first time they die, it's deflected on whoever was most responsible for the death. If killed by the demon, nothing happens.
How is there no “Gunmen Of The Apocalypse” reference on this script? Why did Ben never ask nominees to “Justify Yourself”? No Polymorph/Emohawk? No Legion? Sham fan! J’accuse!😂
