"It's HELL" is a TERRIBLE Excuse and Here's Why 

Like The Good Place?

@@thegoodwitchluzura Haven't watched that.

So it is basically 7/11 mall, but in red tones.

@@xoxMatch I don't know what that is either.

“It’s an abstract kind of hell.

Exactly, people are getting hung up on the word choice and not the meaning. Everyone understands that the show would be unlikeable if EVERY character in it was a total piece of shit, but that’s what makes the main characters stand out more when they behave differently. Here, when a demon from hell acts like sociopath, it’s *expected* but not *okay* .

Yeah, the main characters are still literal murders for hire on a mainstream circuit. That only works within the context that they're demons living in Hell.

This exactly like don’t be surprised about it😭

This is exactly what I was thinking. 💯 👏

Yeah, like when I point out that it's Hell with Stella, I'm not doing it to say anything about her is okay. I'm doing it to point out that it's not necessarily bad writing to have her be that terrible, because it wouldn't be Hell if there weren't *some* people who were shitty, narcissistic and genuinely not trying to be decent people.

This comment needs more likes cuz you said it my guy

ikr

Heaven also seems to be a mirror of Earth. It reminds me of the Supernatural Heaven, where it wasn't the paradise it should've been, and awful people were in charge, and there was a full on war. Good Angels like Castiel fell, angels forced Dean to torment a demon which just damn near broke the man, and didn't feel an ounce of remorse. Honestly at least Hell they're HONEST about what they are and what they do. Al was even upfront about why he wanted to help Charlie; he wants to watch people try and fail cause he think it'll be funny. I'm sure there's some hidden motive, but for now upfront. Heaven seems to be modeled after the "Gilded America" era. Where the outside was NICE AND SHINY but the inside was rotten as sht.

Hm it does punish them in some way, because all of them are fully unleashed, any of them could be the victim of one another. They create each other's hell so to speak. It just creates a giant circle of abuse and pain all over, that they cannot escape from not even with their usual shits. For their crimes to work, most need "innocent people" to be the majority so they can take from them in whatever way. They're all dependent on others being better than themselves in a sense, for things to go their way, mostly. Here they're left with just one another. Again. The other people are hell.

In a way I feel that is the ultimate punishment. Sure, you may be _happy_ doing what you do, but you get no real fulfillment outside of a rush of energy. You feel no need to better yourself, and because of that eternity is truly a curse because there’s really no way to spend it outside of committing every crime imaginable, once that list ends there’s only you, so what is there to do about yourself when you feel no motivation to nurture that question? A constant need in human life is the desire to improve one’s self. Be it emotionally, intellectually, morally, or physically; when there’s no reason or no motivation to try doing that then you lose a core part of your humanity. And with the way Hell is, eventually all other humane desires you might have will be wiped along with it, that’s true Hell. It makes sense that Charlie recognized this and tries to put the pieces back together for the denizens of Hell who don’t feel that they can.

This is a spoiler for the Netflix show Lucifer: Humans choose to go to hell by their own guilt and can literally walk out at any given time to heaven I believe? They literally are held their by their own guilty subconscious and then Lucifer is regarded to as the Evil one despite not forcing any souls to go there.

@@cherriierr6955 As side note that is not how hell actually work in theology. Well... in bible hell doesn't actually exist and Christ promised us New Earth. With only those worthy deserving to live in this new world. Quite ironically heaven is inhabited by eldritch abominations considering fallen (the humans) as traitors. So being forced to return there would probably not be too nice (Sheol is actually a underworld, it is described as dark, but it is not actually bad place). But in a sense this show is more accurate then people think. Being boiled in cauldron was always pop-novel bullshit. Divina Commedia and Paradise Lost are literal pop novels comparable to Lucifer TV show. As side note, Morningstar is nickname of Archangel Raziel not Samael. Those are separate entities. Somehow people forget that Raziel actually win the trial with prosecutor (Satanael). Revelation 22 16

@@TheRezro Ohh that’s actually interesting I read your whole paragraph actually. I think they weren’t 100% accurate on purpose to appeal to teens and young adults more and add more of a modern twist- Lucifer Morningstar has a good ring to it you know? But yeah that makes sense in a way- SPOILER WARNING!!! Because hell was revealed to never actually Exist, Humans only saw it as hell because their guilty complexes sent them there. Lucifer became a therapist for lost souls to help them pass out go. I believe I also read a poem for paradise lost? It mentioned some of the dynamics I saw in Lucifer (Tv Show) but it was more generalized in a sense, like the whole poem was basically about Daddy issues, I remember reading it for a class for AP English for a nature vs nature Debate in regards in to Frankenstein.

@@cherriierr6955 Well, yes. I seriously doubt that they put much of though. Like Geotia isn't real demonology, but rather medieval fan fiction. Just that by coincidence some elements more align with actual believes. As side note, if writers would be clever then Satan from the show would be actually descendent of Azazel, original king of Hell. And then defeated by angels, thanks to treason of Satan the Serpent. Whose name as associated with treason was forced on descendants of Azazel. When his descendants were posing as Lucifer (a Peacock Angel). Who actually went underground creating own deep state (aka he is Paimon). But that is just my suggestion.

@@TheRezro Given that Ba'al, El, and Yam/Yaw are all from the Proto-Cannanite Ugaritic pantheon and modern conceptions of hell are a result of New Testament depictions of guilt, zoroastrianist depiction of good vs evil, and various mythological inspirations converted from benign daemons, aetheral spirits, pagan/celtic gods, fae creatures, and pantheon gods into evil demons, most notably Uranʊs/Hades in Tartarus, it's almost as if the writings of the religious are literally just headcanons that evolve and and change overtime like any other folk stories. This is why I enjoy learning about the evolution and cataloging of fairytales and folk history, but dislike active belief in religion.

Yeah, the entire series does have a ghetto like sorta vibe

Including the rapists and cannibals? The thing about Viv's version of hell is that it exists in a perpetual dissonance between competing concepts of "sinner," then chooses which concept to honor completely by whim. You can't say, "Everyone in hell is just oppressed for the crime of free will, it's not fair" and also depict it as full of serial killers and child predators. If you portray the rulers of heaven (such as Adam) as vile, foulmouthed, misogynistic, and bloodthirsty, which is something that _true_ Christianity condemns but American Evangelical right-wing pseudo-Christianity exemplifies, then you haven't written Heaven and Hell, you've written your own universe. Bayonetta, Darksiders, a hundred other games and books and shows, they all copy/paste the exact same portrayal of Heaven Vs Hell in their own human terms born of personal trauma inflicted by religion-abusing sinners. It's _always_ the scrappy multicultural underdogs of free will vs the oppressive white fascists. It's entirely based on a bias that all religious leaders are inherently morally corrupt, spiteful, hateful creatures. Yes, many of them are, but they do not represent what the religion is truly about. _They_ will be the ones burning in the hell they say they believe in once they die. It's a pity we never see that explored... the concept of a Heaven and Hell that truly are just in judgment, even if from the author's perspective. No, it's always the super-obviously-evil hypocrites in charge of an entire system that's corrupt to the core, and poor ol' Lucifer just wanting to give us free will (and don't think too hard about the rapists and pedophiles).

I don't think that was the point of this video. The point of this video was to highlight that in the world of this series, the words "Hell" and "demon" really have no meaning on their own. Hell could be like any place, and any place could be like Hell. So simply sticking the label of "Hell" on any argument as to why things are the way they are has no validity.

@@bencrispe9562 You can move out of Vegas, or Dubai, or Cairo, or some other horrible place. In fact, people do and go on to be better people. You literally cannot leave Hell. It's all there is and it's everywhere.

@@nosorab3 Even if you can't leave, that doesn't really change anything. Hell, in this universe, is just another fantasy world. Even if you can't leave, the place you can't leave is the size of a whole planet, so might as well do your best with what you have. The issue that's being pointed out here is that there is nothing physically stopping Hell from being an actual good place to live. It's all on the citizens, however, since the rulers don't seem to care about them at all. And the logistics of building a better society are extremely difficult without a massive amount of cooperation. So Hell is a bad place to live in practice, but it could be a nice place to live in theory.

Which is why it’s so taboo when Charlie reveals her plan. It’s like someone from a soup kitchen entering a major mafia headquarters. Like “Why the fuck are you here, snowflake?”

@@bencrispe9562 the it's hell that I always took it as is the ethos of the defeatist nature that was mentioned. Sinners: "Why should I try to be better? I'm already in hell." Imps: "why shouldn't I kill maim steal or do copious amounts of narcotics? Indulge in all there is? It's not like hell can be better. Its what it is and it always will be." The Stella argument I always felt didn't apply to 'its hell' more 'the upper crust is intolerant of the lower class and any attack on their status." Why is that? Because that mimics reality. Which allows any form of retribution for the affront of attacking either status or wealth.

Exactly

This

Not quite. After the release of the first episode of the new season, the card "it's hell, it's okay to be evil" to justify what was done to the character of Stella. If in the first season it was a woman taking revenge on her husband for cheating on her and publicly humiliating her, now it's an evil bitch that has always been evil, because this is hell, and therefore Solas did nothing wrong.

@@Торговецложками in my opinion, stella wasnt a character to begin with, in the beginning, she was always like this, if you listen to their argument carefully in EP 2, she sounds less upset about the cheating and more upset over "I CANT BELIEVE YOU SLEPT WITH AN **IMP**" Implying that shes just angry he did it with an imp, not that he cheated. When stolas mentioned a motel, she also went "LIKE A F--KING PLEBIAN?!" In the same episode. So, people who think stellas character was reduced are wrong here, it was always this way.

@@Торговецложками No, the original sentiment of "It's hell, what did you expect?" Was directed at the people who were outraged about Hazbin Hotel having that news announcer woman say something extremely homophobic. They were claiming that the show was homophobic for having that character in it. When it's pretty obvious she's a bad person (in HELL) and it's really weird to claim that the show in any way supports what she said. Not to excuse the behavior, but to say that the show isn't glorifying it (*cough* unlike a certain unfinished book series that was mentioned in the video *cough*).

@u know me I don’t know you

Bruh, Moxxie and Blitzo are good people to you but don't you remember all the killings and massacre they commit lol

I’m probably not gonna read this, but good job managing to write that

@@mr.potatothewise1261 TLDR; there's a spectrum of morality in the Hell Vivziepop created. Some people are innately good people like Charlie, some are innately bad people like Alastor. Some are in the middle like Moxxie, Millie, Blitz. They exhibit good traits, but still do bad things like murder for money.

@@TheRibottoStudios true, just because they call it “hell” doesn’t mean it has anything to do with our hell This hell could literally be anything, there’s worse people in rick and morty which takes place in “the real world” but the people in that show act nothing like actual people

People nowadays can't handle their own consequences. So they asked for it. Thank you vivziepop

@@aliezahjuarez1212 The hell are you talking aobut?

@@mrscruffles801 vizviepop

Octavia seems like a normal person not even a necessarily *good* one.

She is considered to be the lesser evil, really.

@@fruitloops2058 Call it decent if you want we’re both just talking about the same thing.

@@fruitloops2058 that really depends, we haven't really seen her do anythig bad yet, but mostly because she doesn't have that munch of screentime outside her relationship with Stolas. If anything, she is probably the most decent person (alongside with Charlie) in hell so far.

@@despinasgarden.4100 well let's classify some things they will born hell people who are born on the surface but when the hell after death do get punished to an extent for example their condemned to the pride ring they cannot go to any other

I assume what you mean by Dnd is character alignments ? Or are you referring to the games lore?

​@@sirpaladinknight5491 I doubt he talks about the lore, as he would show that he does not understand any race that's literal representation of alignments in DnD.

@@morelstrike I'm specifically referring to the lore and alignment of "inherently evil" playable races like the Drow, Yuan-Ti, and various monstrous humanoids. Most of them have evil patron or progenitor gods that actively push them towards evil cultures, and there's decades of precedent that when removed from that environment, they turn out as well adjusted and normal as anybody else.

I agree, as a fellow dice nerd, diverging slightly from the topic at hand - I have always hated the alignment system in D&D, and by association, the "alignment planes" and their denizens, such as the devils of the Hells and the demons of the Abyss. Each of these Outer Planes is a physical manifestation of concepts, like "good" or "chaos", and the denizens are supposed to be the embodiments thereof. This relic of old thinking that is still present in the game world/lore is a giant open sore that really takes away from the experience, and people like me are tired of it. I write fiends as creatures that sustain themselves by feeding on, and instigating, mortal emotion - Whether that emotion is "good" or "evil". And this is because the spiritual energy of the mortal in question shifts in frequency when they experience that emotion, becoming a frequency the fiend can absorb. These fiends in my world are merely echoes of humanity that grow until they are snuffed out. Classical demon-types feed on "negative" emotions, like pain, rage, greif, lust, agony, fear, confusion and etc., while classical angelic beings are fiends that feed on good emotions, like pleasure, gratefulness, joy, curiosity, exhilaration, satisfaction, and so forth. These are more human than humans are, facets of human existence given form. Celestials in my world aren't angelic and good, but rather cosmic beings, bordering on the eldritch - Be they the deities, their servants, or something older. These are the cogs in the machine that keep life turning, be it by creating order where reality is falling apart, or by instigating chaos where reality is growing stagnant. They are benevolent, but cold - Reality, existence, life - They have no sympathy or care for the individual, only that the job they do is done to keep the world running. Topical digression concluded, "It's Hell" both is, and is not, a good excuse - If only because the show itself is somewhat grey on just how much this world "is" hell as we're used to understanding it. Obviously the characters are incredibly human - A large portion of them used to be - And as they're written by a *team* of humans as opposed to a single mind, there are going to be inconsistencies, especially with the gap between the pilots and the show that has since continued. At a glance, this isn't the hell we're used to seeing. But on the other side of things, perhaps it once was - And the great population that grew there eventually started building a reflection of earth amongst the fire. It isn't unlike humanity to look at a barren hell-on-earth place of extreme cold and ice, arid wastelands, dense overgrowth and strange creatures, or the maddening depths of the ocean, and say "I wanna put a house here". We put people on the moon for the love of fuck, however briefly. So to say that humanity didn't immediately start terraforming what they could in this dark reflection of a world is silly - We gather resources and we build stuff, that's what we do. Maybe that wasn't the original plan and some among the clouds don't like it, but nonetheless the problem is contained and Hell is doing its job - Containing fallen angels and sinners. Perhaps when humanity gained a foothold in Hell is when the Cleansing started, only for heaven to realize they couldn't wipe out all of the people that were doing this because more just popped up and went to work. Now we look at the Hell we're presented in the show and understand - This was once that wild west free-for-all wasteland we are used to imagining it as, but we're getting a peek into how much it's changed since Dante was there, just like the present on Earth is different from the way it was even 200 years ago. The old ways are still undertones - The same way racism, homophobia and blatant evangelical superiority complex permeate our otherwise modern culture - But the general populace of hell isn't suffering because of the environment anymore, they're suffering because of each other. But the oldest denizens of hell still remember the old ways, and pull the strings to torture those under them in a new way - Using the civilization mankind built in the fiery depths, instead of the flames themselves. They live lavishly and take advantage of the general populace, taking out their ancient malice on them while simultaneously making gains from the opportunity. That's why they themselves allowed humanity to grow - A king with no subjects is a commoner with a crown. So yes, this *was* hell - But it's something else now, a New World. And while the "It's Hell" argument still flies to a degree in my opinion, it should be disregarded when talking about characters since honestly the argument's validity should be taken as an undertone, just as Old Hell is. But this is all just a theory.

You know that Extra Credits did a tactic like that and it fail right?

Of all the comments here yours hit the nail on the coffin. I was confused about the argument as a whole and the examples of different shows and animes to relate to the "It's Hell" argument. Other than that I took it as the setting doesn't define the characters it is the characters that define the setting. Or I was doing my own research on Realism Film theory and literature just to state that Viziepop is using her reflection of how our world and society are and use our world to make a version of Hell for her two amazing series.

This is exactly what I was looking for tbh. This dude and so many others completely missed the point of the argument and then go to write long ass paragraphs like this based off their assumptions without realizing how wrong they are. Obviously nobody is excusing these characters for being problematic but the whole point of the show is that they're bad people in hell, why do you expect them to not be problematic. The setting tells you everything you need to know about most of these characters because they're there for a reason.

Yeah, I absolutely do not understand this person's argument. One of his early points is having a medieval European setting not being an excuse to... explore how people actually acted in medieval Europe? Characters having poor morals doesn't mean the author endorses their actions. At the end of the day, a story is just a story. If someone can't handle a setting then they don't need to actively engage with it. People have trouble just moving on these days.

@@ZombieOfun forreal people also need to understand a person's art should not be associated with the creators character if the creator for some reason draw a person killing another then raping the corpse I know this is a weird example but would you think the author is the type if person who would do that

Can you take the channel over pls. This is a better take

in regards to your edit, i've watched the whole video and am still trying to figure out what people are excusing. care to help me out?

Even the murder isn't necessarily as terrible as it is in real life; in reality, we don't know for certain what happens to people when they die. We can't see them or communicate with them any more, all we know is that they're gone forever. IMP doesn't have that perspective. They know, for a fact, that the people they kill will go to hell or (on occasion) to heaven. What's more, the sinners they kill occupy a higher place in the infernal social hierarchy than the imps themselves do. Our main characters are *from* hell, and they don't see it as such a terrible place.

@@wayronhelloneighborcontent9810 It's things like Stella being abusive or the act of cheating. People throw out "it's Hell" to try and downplay or just outright brush away the problematic nature of an action when it's presented as such.

@@madamaonyx8844 ohh okay, that's understandable.

I think that's the crux of it though. While I definitely agree with his stance, I think the problem is OUR world often excuses abuse and other bad actions or tendencies like cheating or people just try to do so because they love a character and a lot of people can't seem to accept that this character is someone who's legit problematic so they're trying to "defend" the character as if they were a friend. In some cases this can be justified, like bad writing that doesn't comprehend where it went wrong or that it had some seriously missed potential, and in others they're being willfully oblivious because it doesn't match their interpretation of events. So, yeah, I think inherently while he hit the nail on the head about hell involving late-stage capitalism and exploitative hierarchies with heaven as the oppressors who've created and reinforced an environment where their victims help by oppressing others and themselves, but he missed the fact that because we're not that dissimilar, that's why fans are trying to look for handy-dandy excuses to stand up for their faves. lol "It's hell" is almost the same as "the devil made them do it" in a way. It's just their choice for trying to come to terms with it and hand-wave things. I don't think they're right but I understand why they're doing it and it's actually because our world is unfortunately so similar... and in general this kind of reaction is really common and one of the many reasons I think we're seeing a huge uptick in character redemption arcs, some of which are great and others that might not pan out as well, as well as generational trauma exploration narratives. Not just because people raised in a more aware generation are now at the helm of our current media but because it's a big trend especially among fandom communities and their content. But IDK maybe I'm assuming too much. I've had a long time to come to terms with my love of a very problematic character (different fandom.) I still love him and probably woobie him more than I should (I enjoy making him suffer as kind of a karmic justice but it also feeds into his bad attitude so it's a win-win for me) and while I try explaining him, showing his internal logic for how he reconciles his awful actions, I try not to excuse him... which I'm aware is a really easy slope to trip and fall down. We all just want to love our faves and sometimes we try to redeem them. And there's nothing wrong with that, fanfiction and fanart is built on the backs of grand speculation and "what if?" scenarios. Hell, the media we love often does this as well! So I don't knock people for having fun with that aspect. It's just unfortunate when you have, as author examples, EL James getting called out for how she romanticizes abuse and then her doubling down, trying to normalize some truly terrible shit. She's not the only one; a lot of writers do this as well (probably some other published writers too, she just got popular off low-effort and received a lot of hate for this and that.) There's the rub; it's one thing if you write it and you're honest about what it is. We enjoy drama and trauma, it creates excitement and something to overcome, and we hope for justice or a good ending for someone in the setting. It's just awful when people are so neck-deep in denial, either from their own past experiences, their cultural and family upbringing, or both, and they can't admit or can't even recognize when something is truly horrifying because people in power get away with it so it seems normal or as if no one cares. :(

T h i s is 100% the charm of the show

Wow, that’s actually a very good point

Exactly that's literally the entire plot of the show basically

Contrasts! Is always contrasts!

I don’t think I used the phrase clever to describe the choice to set the series in hell. It’s kind of the joke in adult animation that setting your show in hell to tell no no jokes is incredibly played out

Everyone in that is in hell is a sinner and our mc are literaly murders for higher there not good people Stoles is probably the only good person along with stella but even then there not to clean

@@MurakiChiyo why would they be referring to anything but the cartoon💀

Specifically in this show sure Still you cant really overlook the things they do tho

Yeah except you never had to be pure evil to be on hell in the first place. Just self-serving. You could never hurt another soul and still be sinful. And if you know that your culture is one of many and the rest look down on you, you can make comparisons why and probably come to the conclusion that all the things that demons do to anger one another, angers everyone else the same and everyone else is not doing that. If they know murder and theft is bad, yet still do it to survive, that's still a sin.

@@MurakiChiyo I watched this and I don't care.

I think a better take away is just because it's more acceptable doesn't mean it's good, or that we have to accept it as the audience. Killing in offense is always going to be seen as morally unacceptable no matter who you tell it to, or why

OK but vikings are fucking awesome

I don't think the show is trying to portray the actions as "good", just that they're accepted in-universe.

The reason that that explanation seems like a problem is because that’s not the inherent answer based on the how the story has been told. If Viv simply put that as the answer it would be fine. But because she has answers to why other characters are terrible (the situation their in, money, power, upbringing) then it would makes sense for her to answer why this character is terrible. Even if the answer is that she’ll terrible because she just is, that’s something that needs to be given to the audience and not inferred. Since most of the other characters have reasons for being terrible then logically this character must have a reason as well.

And that makes Stella a boring character. I like Helluva Boss but the lack of compelling villains is holding the show back. Striker was a home run, but then there were the Cherubs, Dhorks, and Stella who would fill the villain role nicely except they lack depth to their characters. Stella, crucially, is driving a main plot line for Stolas so it sucks that "because hell" is apparently the excuse for why she's a bitch.

N-no.. Stella is a secondary character an antagonist to Stolas just like how Stryfe is a antagonist to Blitz and everyone at IMP. They are characters written for their roles. And you know what? Some times people are just plain fucking bad/evil.

@@viraltang This honestly. People keep thinking that a tragic backstory and justification is what makes a character interesting. I saw the same thing when people tried to justify slavery in Primal when talking about the vikings. Slavery shouldn't be justified. In Primal's story and setting, the vikings are evil. Just like the t-rexes that ate Spear and Fang's families, the vikings captured and enslaved Mira and her people. The show doesn't justify why the did that other then brutal survival because that's what the setting demands and is what the story is about. And the vikings aren't interesting because they "gave their slaves food and a house," but because they still have human emotions we can understand, despite them still being objectively the bad guys. And in Helluvaboss, Stella is just an abusive wife because that's what the story needs. She doesn't need a backstory to justify toxic abuse. Because her contribution to the story isn't herself, but what she (as a villain) can do for the rest of the story, specifically Stolas's development.

No one is saying that Stella needs a tragic backstory, stop bringing this argument. People are infuriated not that Stella was made a bitch for no reason, but that the creators completely remade the characters of Stella and Solas at the beginning of the second season. The creators of the show decided to give a "tragic backstory" to Stolas, completely removing all blame and all responsibility for cheating from him and shifting all this to Stella. If in the first season they both had pros and cons, now there is not even the illusion of choosing who to root for. Just because they needed to push the damn ship through.

The tamest? What happens in the other 2?

@@chrismanning2888 Well in the dantes inferno version which is based on catholic mythology each circle embodies a specific sin starting in limbo where people who are not followers of god but have not committed a sin end up where they wait til judgement day slowly insane and losing their ability to think and free will. While in the circle of gluttony you are eaten alive by demons for eternity the punishments get worse as you go deeper but the farthest I got into the game was the 3 circles of violence I could never get past the second circle of violance. But from what Ive read the 3 circles of violance stand for violance against others violance against yourself and the third is violance against god. In violance against others the punishment is boiling in a river of blood in violance against yourself you wander aimlessly in a swamp that fills your mind with every guilt you have received in til you commit suicide over and over. Not sure what the punishment for violance against god was suppose to be never got that far in the game. By the way after the circles of violance is the circle of pride and supposidly thats where the devil lives and he personally deals out your judgement and punishment. Its considered to be the worst spot to end up in which is why it has the fewest sinners.

@@chrismanning2888 Oh sorry misinterpreted what you asked. Incase you dont want to read the long version. The three circles of violence are known as violence against others violence against yourself and violence against god. The first one is the less punishing as you boil in a river of blood. But in violance against yourself you wander a swamp that fills your mind with every sin you have committed til you commit suicide over and over and I forgot what happens in the violence against god one. Not sure how you would commit that to begin with.

@@chrismanning2888 Ring one is being nearly drowned in a river of boiling blood, ring two is a horrid forest where sinners are stood in place as gnarled trees and picked apart by harpies, and the third ring is a barren plain of scalding sand ignited by flakes of fire from the sky. The third ring is weird, because sinners were forced to walk, sit, or lay down on the hot sand- depending on how they had committed violence against God. (Usurers, Sodomites, and Blasphemers) Basically, the worse your crime against God, the more of your body had to be exposed to both the sky-fire and the hot sand. I hope that helps answer your question!

@peter "hey Louis, I found a bot"

💯

….where did it say it was suppose to be dark? It’s an part office comedy part romcom that happens to be taking place in hell and the main couple is same sex. Of the rings in hell only ONE of them even have sinners. The rest of hell is basically just a world of monsters that’s hardly any different for ours if anything (with a nod to Blitzø) it just an edgier version of My Little Pony FiM. It’s hell is most definitely an excuse when you use it to justify inter relationship abuses and violations when there are example of healthy ones in the same show. Why would Blitzø,Verosika,Stolas, be broken hearted over relationships failing if there was never an expectation of them being healthy and succeeding? Why would Millie be punished for having a neighbor kill count? Millie’s parents and M&M are some of the healthiest relationships in media and they mow down a stadium of humans with out a 2nd thought. ‘It’s hell’ can excuse not caring for humans and the fact that every one there are demons….but this is ViviziePop’s Hell it’s her Hell that that says that there are different types of demons, 7 rings, 9 circles, an overall circus aesthetic, her hell has hell born demons who love each have families, have healthy interpersonal relations, they have fire departments, hospitals, orphanages, they love and except their trans children they have dirt bags sure and just genuinely good people…who just happen to be hell hounds, or Imps, or Goetia

@@Cangeltibon the pilot episode is about murdering a child

Cool uh… so the writers of the show seem at odds with wether this is a show about its setting or characters. It could balance this but as it stands that’s not the case. The characters act like normal people. Then occasionally they act out of character. This is not a problem of “people interpreting a setting differently” because up until recently the setting was second to characters. It’s clear that the setting of hell does not effect the show because you could easily swap these characters out into a different setting and it would almost play entirely the same. Now you have people hand waving legitimate criticisms of this CHARACTER DRIVEN SHOW because they and the show runners seem more interested in the setting. Now granted, it is a cool idea for a setting of a show. And This wouldn’t be a problem if the rest of the show was as interested in the setting but again, it is not. The show up until this point was about characters. I mean come on. If it wasn’t a character driven show they wouldn’t have Brandon rogers, the RU-vid king of character sketch comedy, on as a head writer and leading VA. You can see the problem on display with this most recent episode. The one episode that Brandon doesn’t write and suddenly we’re more focused on the world and the characters are acting out of character in order to explore the setting. Again, exploring the setting isn’t a problem, but it becomes one when we have so heavily invested the time into the characters. To switch focus away from that is bad writing and hurts the pacing of the show which then hurts my enjoyment of it. “It’s hell” only works if it had always been about the setting. It wasn’t, so people acting uncharacteristic of themselves is bad. The end. This show may be a work of independent creators but it should be held to the same standard of criticism as a full fledged network show. And given hazbin hotel will be a network show, helluva bosses inconsistent writing is a bad sign of things to come. I remain optimistic but if this goes south then I will judge this show as harshly as I would judge a network show. And hey, if, and hopefully it will, if it goes great I’ll sing it’s praises.

@@Cangeltibon the first episode has a literal war going on. War is dark. The pilot of Helluva Boss they killed a child. What the fuck did you think you were watching

Me to

so far, ive only seen this guy(channel) take it a different way. Then he rants in this video with his own misguided interpretation as a guide.

That's how I use it, too. Like I've used it with Stella not to say her actions were okay, but to say 'it's not unreasonable that someone that ridiculously terrible would be in Hell.' Like her saying 'I want to torment you' seems cartoonish, but this is a world where her just wanting to torment someone would probably be more socially acceptable than a more complex emotional reason for her actions.

Exactly, the whole reason of hell is to put BAD people in a TERRIBLE place. They are obviously not going to be good so why are people complaining about it? These guys comparing hell to other beliefs but this hell isnt meant to be like the vikings hell or whatever.

@@Zlyde007 So i assume you take OP’s assumption as fact

true, however also worth noting that only sinners and fallen angels are cannonically "sent there for being bad" imps, hellhounds and succubi are born and raised there, they're in a shitty living situation their whole lives because of the sinners, but they aren't inherently there for being bad people. theyre just there. i think sarcastic chorus is talking specifically about helluva boss?

@@gingermaniac5484 yh but if you grow up and live around loads of bad people ur probably not gonna be an angel

In that episode yes cuz that client was gonna kill himself but they usually try to make them do some good so that when they die they may(keyword) go to heaven.

@@flakesandbakez they weren't "trying to get him to do good" they were trying to get him to not kill himself, how wasn't important, they just tried to get him to see that meaning in life can come from philanthropy as a means to the end of no self die

@@bigdiccmarty9335 well you're wrong because they told him to spread his money to people that needed maybe you should go back and watch the episode

@@btschannel3667 you should read my comment again, I said they were trying to keep him from killing himself, they only tried to get him to be charitable as a means to that end, not as their main goal

@@bigdiccmarty9335 i was agreeing with them saying that in this ep the cherubs were trying to stop him from kill himself...

He’s right though

@u know me bot

Aren’t they always

@@mr.potatothewise1261 he straw maned the entire reason people say it’s hell

@@superserpent4889 This 100%

Exactly...whenever I use "its hell: its more as a "reason not justification" being in an area where bad behavior is praise and is the norm will lead to terrible people. I dont say what they're doing is not inmoral because of the setting, I don't think viziepop meant that (or I dont see it)

To back this up, honestly culture shock is a good example of this

Unless you go there in of itself, you won’t really know, but of course sometimes the stereotype is true, but that doesn’t mean every resident is going to be a crazed degenerate

@@reflection6401 millie and moxxie literally kill people lol

@@tobsonasanya4765 exaclty, but their not like someone like verosika

in the pilot they literally say "It's hell and no one fuckin' cares"

@@bigdiccmarty9335 that was a joke 😂

@@Tigolbiddies123 aight

The demon Lords that reside in hell chose to follow Satan, and all the sinners sent there had a life on earth, they could have chosen to follow God, and accept Jesus Christ as the Lord and savior. They are no longer redeemable for a second chance at grace.

Says treat them like normal people and completely ignores that where you are raised is apart of that. I don't think either of you know as much as you think.

It’s hell they are bad people

@@lunakingsley.7247 someone gets it brofist my dude 😎🤜

Watch the dam video XD

hell is just where we are but we see the bad parts more because it’s hell. and plus, don’t think we are any better.

You mean the whole world right? Doesn’t just happen in America. 🤡

@MultiSuperguy101 Um. No? Obviously this happens in other countries too but the parallel I speak to is unique to the US because the political and societal system, as well as the historical context it's key values were constructed on, are the only one of it's kind, just like any other nation. If you feel like debating my point, feel free to because I had been referring only to the US and I would be interested in an alternative point of view.

​@@MultiSuperguy101I don't think you read the comment you're replying to correctly

yeah its a product of not wanting to piss off the higher ups or not wanting to be "to accurate" to the point it ruins what they want to go for. one of the things i hate the most is when the stories do stick to more accurate things for the time setting but ppl get pissed off about it, make it into something more then it really is, or misunderstand its point of its inclusion in the setting. due to them looking at it with a modern mindset ignoring the era its set in

I mean so far. With the exception of the people who were born in hell. I.E. Imps, Hellhounds, Goeita, Charlie, etc. Everyone who's in hell did something pretty significant to get them in there. Along with being fairly unrepentant about it to. I mean the lightest sinner we saw was a school techer who brutally ripped apart her husband with a chainsaw. Also tried to kill the women he was sleeping with, before the proceeding to comit suicide. All of this while the audio was playing for the children back at her classroom. That is so far the best of the sinners who backstory's we know. (I didn't mention Vaggie, because it seems like her backstory might be that she's a purifier in which case her story is more complicated, but possibly purely business related.)

It's believing in and following Jesus Christ, our Lird and Saviour, who paid the price for our sin. There is no other way into Heaven. The real hell will not be cute and trendy like this evil show. It will be an endless hopeless nightmare.

@@dpainter1526 I wouldn't call it an evil show as much as very poorly written. Although part of me does take some humor in Satan being show as more or less a clown. Anyway Godspeed me fellow. Lords Blessing upon you. Make sure you behave rightly so others may be inclined to follow the path.

@Miles Gwatidzo no

Congratulations you screenshotted an NFT you earned the based trophy

IKR

Or Hitler and Stalin 💀

@@justysiastrzelczyk8212 Probably some Ultrakill Prime Soul.they immediately sent all they had to stop those guys.

Wasn't her death a suicide

@@jakie4444 I didn’t know she died from suicide but what did she do to place her in hell

@Stick the landing committing suicide is a sin in a lot of religions.

I mean, wrath Is one of the deadly sins, so maybe people with unresolved anger issues go to hell no matter what they do?

@@jakie4444 she commited?

It's his channel after all

Well, who wouldn't?

I think he likes it

Which is what hell is supposed to be like. Heaven is very difficult to get into, I'm surprised that cherubs are ever sent to help someone get in.

How? It’s not bad but it’s literally just an image of Moxxie, not really anything outstanding

Yeah, they somehow made her *less* complex through *more* screen time

Chorus already has a video on that, you should check it out

Not to mention it completely red-cons that line form ep 2 where Octvavia said they didn't always hate each other. Like i thought they atleast liked each other in the beginning of their marriage, but apparently Stella was just always a bitch and i think thats a cheap way to - as you also said - justify Stolas cheating

It’s also fine cause she doesn’t need a reason to not like their relationship.. and can be given even more reasons to hate their relationship which she never had interest in to begin with. Which is extremely common in arranged marriages.

I feel like it was obvious since episode 2 that the cheating wasn't even the problem for Stella. It was just that she wasn't happy that he did it with an imp, someone below them

How to tell somebody isn’t in the fandom in two sentences or less

@@serendipitysirens feel I should clarify I'm taking about the seven deadly sins Fandom If you knew that Oops

They're torture is being in hell, forever. Look how miserable blitzo is for example.

well to say it's shitty writing is just based on opinion, another person could have an opinion that is written by Shakespeare himself, so I feel that going after something as so fluid as writing would be a bad take. a better take would be to attack the contradictions of the story and setting rather than something as loose and free-willed as writing, not everyone thinks Beyonce is a world-class singer. and not everyone thinks that country has a good sound. here objectively going after the sound of a song is much more feasible, simply due to the fact that keys can be wrong, audio may not be level, or we can go down the route of certain notes or sounds clashing and ruin the song. lyrics, on the other hand, are abstract, yeah in some forms of songs that have a hard set structure you can be more critical, but also remember there is slam poetry, in which the structure of writing can make no sense or even contradict with zero forms of rhythm. this is just a simple thing I have noticed that some people critique the show for, and ill definitely say, is the weakest way to really attack the show. especially since it's supposed to be a funny, violent, shit post of an adult film in which it s surprisingly good

@@ix7958 Appoligies , I should have clarified , I dont think the writting is bad , im simply just replying the videos argument , I personally think the show is well written.

@@ix7958 And I do agree with your point that bad writting is subjective. overall you make a very good argument. but my argument is simply your in hell , temper your expectations accordable on how characters should act. A bad character doesn't mean they are badly written.

Please add more paragraph spaces, this was a bit difficult to read…

oh look more victim blaming. this is insulting. Stella's a very, very realistic abuser. They are this bad. they don't need a reason. actually their family is a very realistic family dynamic. 'lazy writing?' 'there has to be a reason?' 'there has to be redemption?' 'it has to he Stolas' (the victim's) fault for not realizing X or doing X?' it's disgusting. If someone was trying to escape from an abusive relationship, I sure hope they don't encounter people like you, who'd plunge them right back into it thinking that there has to be a 'fixable tragic reason' a person is horrible. tell me. How is a very realistic and accurate interpretation of an abusive family, *childish?* also she was angry about stolas sleeping with an imp, because it gives her a bad name that her husband would choose as IMP over her. i thought that was obvious.

@@comet.x This is fiction, not reality. Im not doing a moral analysis of this, if that's what you think . Stella, Stolas, Octavia, Blitzø are characters invented by the author NOT REAL PEOPLE. Everything I discuss is about the author and how she decided to build a story and a world in in which that story happens. Talking about how a character is developed is not a matter of ethics, it's a matter of technique. Just like a painter choosing how to blend colors, an author chooses how to construct a character. I'm merely analysing her technique which I find it has been downgraded regarding the fictional character called Stella. I'm not interested in moral teachings that can be sowed from the story. Which ks disturbing is that you think that me doing an analysis and giving my final conclusion about a work of fiction has anything to do to how I would act when an actual and real abuse happens with actual people. It tells much about you more than it tell about me really. You don't seem to have the ability to discern between a moral and ethical standings regarding real life issues and the analysis of a work of fiction.

@@rociopaoloni5080 a work of fiction, especially ones like this, are often projections of past experiences by the people who made them. I bet you there are multiple people working under vivzie, if not viv herself, that have experienced abuse and are using helluva boss to send a message, as a coping mechanism, or whatever. I am fully aware stella is not real. that is not to say the animators are not real, and it definitely doesn't say that she wasn't based on a very real traumatic experience. i don't know if this is true, but it's highly likely that stella and that entire family is based on real trauma, animated by people with real trauma, and resonating to people with real trauma. there are times when the funny fictional cartoon characters, are a bit more than funny fictional cartoon characters. there are also times when they are not more than funny fictional cartoon characters. I'm looking at you, shonen genre, genshin, and people who lose their minds over ships

@@comet.x I understand what is being represented there is abuse and I understand real abuse experiences can and do inspire works of fiction but here I don't talk about that and sincerely I find weird that people can't make a space for a critique that isn't about ethical and moral issues. Stella is more cartoonish that she was before, is a much more simplistic character in the new episode. Many elements that we were shown before don't appear again here, not only they are not developed they are just not there. That has nothing to do with abuse, it's has nothing to do with how lifelike the representation is, it's just how the character is constructed. Stella could have been the most benevolent character in the whole series but if Viv decided to leave behind the complexity she insinuated before to present us a more simplistic character my point would still stand. Why? Because what I'm saying doesn't depend on good and evil real life expressions, it's about now is constructed as a character. The same way you could analyse how a statue is build, how a painting is done, how a music piece is put together, etc. Maybe you are focusing to much in how she treats Stolas for personal reasons but I'm not focusing on that because I don't intend to talk about how lifelike is that she says "I like to torment you", etc. I don't intend to compare to real life. I don't intend to think "hm surely someone said this to someone while abusing them" and call it a day. That's just comparing with real life not analysis.

@@rociopaoloni5080 I don't see anything missing. As far as I could tell from the first season, she was an angry classist noble wife who hated stolas because he slept with an imp. And honestly? Moral and ethics aside, I LOVE season 2 stella. She's so unopologetically evil and sadistic! She actually feels like a sadistic monster who revels in it all, and it's glorious. We have enough tragic backstories in hazbin already, so having someone who's just straight chaotic evil, and loves herself for it, is refreshing and fun. True cartoonishly evil villains like this are just FUN. And concidering this is hell nobility? It fits too. And the fact when they need it to not be fun and gag-like, they can actually make it traumatic and emotional? Personally, I think this is the best choice they could have made. A love-to-hate villain AND a trauma source? It's just perfect.

Thank you so much for commenting this!! I agree

Stella is a horrible person but a great character

To be fair, I'd point out with the teacher the 'one bad move' was a murder and an attempted murder, plus throwing a child. While we don't know where the line is that got her into Hell, and we know that she was a good person for a lot of her life so there are probably generally decent people in Hell, I wouldn't say we know enough to say that it's 'really really easy' to get into Hell since I think most people would expect someone who murdered their husband to go to Hell.

Well it’s clear this version is very loosely based off the concept of hell. Well actually it seems to lean into Dante’s version of hell more so, which itself is pretty loose. Outside of names, concepts of sin and layers there really isn’t much being pulled from either Dante’s interpretation or the actual biblical concept. So it’s a loose adaptation of a loose adaptation of a concept that’s already left up in the air because for all the Bible talks of hell it’s really not given much in terms of a description outside of “you really don’t wanna go there.” So… yeah the people using that as a way of waving away criticism are being way too generous to the multiple failings of the story. I hope the writing team can do a 180 because I don’t know if I like where we’re going. Well because I don’t know where we’re going because for all the setup the show is looking pretty aimless.

@@AnimatedTerror hazbin hotel is going to be more dark than Helluvaboss

Yupp- always annoyed me

If you want An actual depiction of hell, Go play (or watch a playthrough of) Dante's inferno for the PS3. Much more accurate and disturbing. Or Agony for the PS4. Which is even More disturbing, But strays a little from the different circles.

@@MementoMori7777 played agony but was massively disappointed

Yeah that's pretty much what I think

Hell, some of them are from the 90s why are they all gay

I think cause her death was suicide

@@jakie4444 That is, honestly, what I think too.

@@jakie4444 Vivziepop said suicide won't land you in her hell

prob she did something like the teacher in helluva boss ep 1