Love your rant on barrel length. I whole heartedly agree with you. I see 7PRC with 22-24" barrels. Absurdity in my eyes. 7 rem mag consistently wears a 26" in most factory rifles. Short barrels are like having a 12 cylinder engine and Removing 2 spark plugs.
I also agree with the barrel length... I put a 26" barrel on my 223 bolt gun... first rounds were coming out at 3500fps... the load was expected to run at 3100fps longer barrels = more complete powder burns = more consistent velocities higher velocities is a bonus I am not a great shot 1moa I am having a good day... 1.5moa is an average day... 2moa go home and think about what I did wrong
As a machinist of 37 years I can really appreciate the amount of time and scrutiny to this. 0001 that you refer to. Most can't fathom those measurements . Beautiful shooter there sir. Something to cherish.
My first chamber Job, PO Ackley, built my reamer and stood beside me showing each step of the way. That barrel/action was an old 98 24/47 intermediate length mauser. We turned the steps out of it, set it back and chambered to 8x57 Improved. He told ne that was the first and only 8x57 improved for him and not to put his name on it but it's shoots under 3/8 inch groups at a 100, and with 175gr Sierra's, 185gr Rem Core-Lokts and 180 gr Nos. Ballistic tips, it will stack them in one hole. 8mm-06 Ackley was my next one, again a military barrel I turned the steps out of. I took it out to fireform cases and my 1st 10 shots were less than a nickle at 100. Started playing with it and with 175 gr Sierras and a stiff load of Re22 it put 4 bullets in the same hole. Not a raged hole, but looked like 1 bullet hit the paper. Those old Germans really knew how to make barrels. I've never built any since that shot as tight but everything I have will shoot under a half inch or I won't keep it.
@@samwindisch5596 Dear Sir - precisely. Thank you. Built properly, set up properly, a lot of the older cartridges will perform far above SAAMI specifications. Thanks again............
Great information and great energy telling the story, keep up the great work. We need more people like you to tell it like it is ! Thanks for your work
Super impressive! This may be my favorite video you’ve made! So much good information and so cool that it was done with a Remington action! Goes to show that a cleaned up R700 will and can shoot lights out. I’ve tried to tell people that for years. Great work!
Dear Sir - strange fact; some of the most accurate rifles we ever built were on receivers that I completely blueprinted; Rem. 700's, Stiller's, etc.......Not certain if there is correlation or not, but interesting. Thanks......
@@quarterminutemagnums I love my high end actions, but I have a blue printed R700 SA chambered in .223 with a 26” Krieger 1-7 M24 contour that shoots .10 5 shot groups with Berger 77 Gr OTM’s. I also have a a similar set up with an Impact Precision action and Proof prefit that will only print .20 groups with the same projectile. Crazy!
I want to comment on one subject you mentioned. Jim Charmicle. I grew up , my adolescent years , the years I learned so much about guns and hunting. Mr Carmicle taught me so much, took me to so many places. I didn't rifle hunt but I read every word that man put to print many many times. He was a fine person , I am sure, an outdoor writer with few peers and he spread that savvy , I thank him to this day. ( If I do not have his name spelled correctly please forgive me. It looks correct as i recall. )
Dear Sir - I was fortunate to spend three days at Mr. Carmichel's home/office. His intellect, knowledge and experience was/is so far beyond comprehension, the only appropriate word is Genius - and even that is an understatement! Thank you.........
Agreed. It is an absolute joy to have a barrel that just "keeps it there" with different bullets/ammo. Keeps it there super tight groups. Confidence leaps when you have such performance. I'm commenting because my early Remington 5R SS Milspec 308 has such luck, so a keeper. It has a little fine tuning done to it, including having the rail better "screwed", but basically factory. Not your level of magic, but it is just joy to shoot. Every rifle has a little luck built in, but how much is an unanswerable question. Some barrel tuners do find more "luck" with their "magic", which is why people are willing to pay some for it. Anyhow, my rifle isn't for sale either. The 7m Rem Mag is, beyond just base ballistics, is one the greats because they "want" to work and do. Your perseverance to find "perfection" is commendable; best regards from the UK.
I have the same 5r milspec SS 308. Years removed from my time on 308Win it sit in the back of my safe and is still my most consistent shooting rifle I own. And it shoots everything well.
@@longrangeautist6117 Not sure they all do, but certainly the early ones have the reputation to have that accuracy "luck". Mine is fitted with a Quick Silver slim moderator that doesn't effect its raw accuracy at all, just makes it long and reasonably quiet. Nor any effect fitting a Seekin's magazine housing. It's my take on a M40, of Carlos Hathcock respect. Taken plenty of game, and never fails to impress. Finding a rifle that just delivers isn't always easy; and really nice when one does. Happy trigger time.
I got all warm and fuzzy when you started talking barrel lengths, suppressors, long barrels, ACTUAL velocities, retained arrival energies, etc... You and I are kindred spirits my friend. We need to back each other. You and I are on the same page and WE ARE NEARLY ALONE in this stupid, short barrel-suppressor laden, fad market of today. I think 28 to 30" Barrels are KING on magnums! I said in our series regarding barrels: ..."26 inches is kind of a compromise for me." We don't promote target bullets on game, but other than that... I couldn't agree more on everything you said in this video. Keep it up brother!
I love my 7-mag. Mine has a 24" tube, which is obviously a balancing act between velocity and handiness. I've considered getting a 26" tube, but until accuracy starts to fall off, I'll probably just run it.
@@johncantu3594 , Ramshot Grand would definitely give more speed before hitting pressure not sure 🤔 what the accuracy would be like. I’m not at pressure now and I have good performance. I have a 28 nosler if I want more performance, it’s setup with 175 grain ABLR running 3160 and no where near pressure, half moa setup, I’d rather have consistent accuracy than speed. My 28 is a very light Xbolt pro, so I’m very pleased with the 1/2” groups at 100
I found that the Jack Carter Trophy bonded bullets shot as good as target bullets. I took 2 elk with these bullets Jack sold the company to Federal who made crappy bullets. Federal finally got their quality up, and the new Federal Trophy Bonded bullets are better. I recommend the Nosler AccuBond bullets. Their quality is the superb, the bonding process is the same as Jack's original process, and they print like a target bullet.
Dear Sir - appreciated. Actually, it is just an incredible shooter for that cartridge, component combination. I would expect far more from a 6PPC or 6BR bench-gun. Thanks.................
Amen! I built a 26 inch 7 rem mag and run 180 eldm's and 180 Berger right at 3k fps with no pressure. Its a fast accurate barrel. It likes almost every bullet I have put in it.
That is how my 7mm rem. Mag. Shoots at 100yds with 62g E LD X hand loads ,26" Krieger barrel 1/9 twist ,1/250" at muzzle, Sendero stainless action,love the gun. Also HS precision stock. Timney trigger.
Have build my a custum 300win mag with a 28in heavy palmma krieger barrel 10 twist on a single action target action.The berger 230 or hornady 225 eld match bullets gives me a stability factor of about 1.5 I load a dummy bullet that only the boattale is in the case with a col of 3.77 in.After i break the barrel in start with the starting load with the 225eld match bullets sixteen loads stop at 2930 f/s,shot 3shots at a time on the same target.The start load was 255f/s slower than my max load all sixteen shot was smaller than half an in.Good planning good barrels and good gunsmithting matters the most.Love your youtube channel
I have two custom barrels that do that . One from the Remington custom shop 7mm, the other also a 7mm from a barrel maker in Montana. I also have a custom 300 Win Mag that is consistently well under half inch moa Yes it's the barrel but also the brass , primer and powder combination matter immensely . I use federal match primers. I use retumbo powder. I will not mention the brass but my brass is meticulously taken care of Forgot to mention 7mags are 1:9.25 twist The 300 winny 1:10
Bought a box stock Remington 700 BDL 300 Win Mag. in 1990. Bedded it and free floated it. It shot 1.6 MOA. I call Remington and spoke to a man in the custom shop. He told me their barrel technology was as good as any custom barrel manufacturer. He suggested I put the pressure pad back in the front of the stock. I followed his advice. This pad reduces the harmonics and increases cold barrel accuracy. With my handloads, and a 180 gr. Nosler Ballistic tip. it put 5 shots into 0.3" at 100 yds. The first 2 shots went through the same hole. I thought I had missed the target. I agree that the barrel is very important, but the bullet is at least second in importance. Those Bergers are the best bullets that you can buy. The only downside is they require a long action, otherwise the have to be seated too deep in the case. A Remington long action has plenty of room, but a Winchester is tight. In my opinion a straight barrel is a must, but manufacturer isn't so important. Bullet is #2 in importance, powder is #3 and everything else doesn't really matter. You have to put the components together the same way each time for each cartridge. The whole secret is barrel harmonics. The bullet has to exit the barrel at the top or bottom of the vibration, when vertical velocity of the barrel is minimal. The reason the fore end pressure bump works is because it is like putting your finger on the fret of a guitar. The barrel vibration frequency is much higher, but the vertical velocity (amplitude) of each cycle is less. Each successive bullet is more likely to exit the barrel near the same point in the vibration cycle. After the barrel heats up, the point of impact will change, but for hunters this is irrelevant.
I started hand loading and doing a lot of shooting back in 1970s. Had quite a few bolt rifles. When browning introduced the Abolt I bought one. It was very accurate with bullets from 75 to 120 grains and amazingly seemed to shoot everything to the same point of aim? One day at the range I shot a five shot group with 75 to 120 grain bullets in about an inch. Never had another rifle that would do that?
I've tried the 190LRHT in one rifle so far, a custom 7PRC. It's been 1.75-2.25" at 500. I like that bullet, at 2905fps also, with a 26" 8tw. About 1.5grs off Max with n568
@@quarterminutemagnums Oh absolutely i shot NBRSA in the 90'S and my LV and HV guns and everyone elses were straight tapers and I'm sure they still are today. thank you for your channel sir
Great video! I had a good laugh when you said the owner didn't want to sell the rifle. I have a built .308 Winchester with a Hart 26" 1/12 barrel that can throw 175gr SMK's at 2780 at 600' elevation....I don't understand why guys would want to handicap the cartridge with an 18-20" barrel. Btw, if my 300NM shoots like that, I won't want to sell it either, haha. Looking forward to the video.
This video provides evidence of a few things I've known for a long time. You don't need Lapua brass to achieve this level of accuracy. A well trued Rem 700 action at it's fullest potential functions as well as top tier Remington clone actions. Finally, Brux barrels are top tier high end premium match quality barrels. All of mine are 4 groove.
Jewel is out of business, yes, sadly. I have quite a number and love them. Wish I could find a few more left hand. I've had the good fortune to own Brux, Bartlein, Krieger, and Broughton barrels that do what this Brux is doing in the video. It's very tough to settle for less when you see what excellence can achieve. In the coming weeks I'll find out of my K&P, ACE, and Benchmark cut-rifled barrels will do perform to this level.
Great video and good information. I think we discussed using that very barrel for my build back in March. Looks like I made a bad decision! Thanks for all you both do. Any thoughts on why the velocities were so consistent with the 180's and 190's but not so much the 184's?
I’ve shot a couple of true factory guns that shot that well. With factory ammo. They were both browning X bolts. One was 7mm08 the other was .243. What I can’t understand is what any arms or barrel manufacture company can’t consistently produce sub MOA barrels. Much less custom high end barrels that are 3 MOA. We have all seen cheap mass production WW2 rifles. With crap stocks banded on barrels. Some of the barrels were even made from multiple pieces of metal. And they would do 3 MOA or better. Now we have high tech super close tolerance CnC lathes and mills. Seems the process would be way more consistent now. I’ve seen many you tubers do videos of these of rifles getting 2 MOA groups. In the 70’s and 80’s we would take old M1 carbines ,SKS’s and myosin nagants and shoot the ends of coke cans at 100 yards. With iron sights. Sometimes it doesn’t seem as much progress has been made in 80 years.
I think bullet performance is more important than raw energy. I'd rather hit an elk with a 1000 ft/lbs that has enough velocity to expand and enough SD to completely or at least mostly traverse the entire chest than 2000 ft/lbs from a bullet that isn't designed to function in tissue or lacks the velocity to do so. I do agree with you on barrel length though. With the slow powders these days, you can see real gains in that 26 to 30 inch range. I don't know why people think it is cool cutting the barrel on a magnum long action cartridge down to 22 or 24 inches. If you're hunting in brush where you need a short rifle, a 24-inch 7mm isn't any better of a choice than a 28-inch 7mm. If you're hunting where you will appreciate the performance of a magnum rifle cartridge, you'll probably appreciate it more if you give it enough barrel to do its thing. I see short barrels on magnum rifles, and I start to think someone is a little confused or conflicted about what they are trying to accomplish.
I have an old 1:14 twist 30" Krieger in .308 that is still shooting .25 MOA after 6000 shots. I also have .284 win that will show you flames if you even look at your brass the wrong way 🤣
I have a Criterion 6xc that shoots 90 to 109 Bergers through Bugholes .2's and below I have 4 6xc Barrels it shoots the best, yep it's a hummer barrel almost, it shoots tight right off the bat...INSTALL A GOOD BARREL ON YOUR action with a good firing pin with good bullets and you will see the light
Yep. These short barreled magnums are silly. Energy = Pressure*Area*Distance. If you cut the barrel length down (distance) you are killing your muzzle energy plain and simple. Of course the pressure curve drops off as the bullet gets closer to the end of the barrel but you get the idea.
Jewel put out a statement a while back, saying that the people that made their Springs retired and they can't get Them no more. And they're not sure if they're going to come back in business. Something to that effect.I could be wrong about The details It's been quite a while since I read that statement.
The newbies these days want to shoot an sbr mag suppressed ! Us oldd fuds just don't understand . I'm with you man , the newbies can rebarrel when they finally get something called experience !
What brand are you using to replace the Rem 700 bolt shroud, cocking piece, spring, firing pin? I need to find those for 2 RH 700s, a short and long action, and one long action LH
If you are a handloader with a custom chamber older cartidges are just fine. Hornady products just make some of that stuff saami. Just imagine, if you shooting factory guns and anmo, bet you are not a great shooter. That person probably does better with the slightly smaller case.
Just out of interest. I shoot a 168gr high bc (g7 .381) monolithic bullet from Peregrine bullets at 3000ft/sec out of my .284Win with a 32" barrel. I would imagine a similar setup in a 7 Rem mag would get at least 150 ft/sec more. I have verified the Peregrine bullet's bc out to beyond 2000 yards.
You're basing everything off of energy which is almost a useless number. When we're talking magnums push heavy, high b/c bullets, the energy to penetrate big game like elk will be there, especially at distance. As you should know, when bullets slow, they penetrate more due to less and less expansion or fragmentation. What really matters is understanding the specific bullet's minimum velocity threshold of where it will still expand or fragment. That is the ONLY NUMBER that matters. For most Bergers, that's 1900fps or so. For some Hornady ELDM's, that can be as low as 1600fps. LOOK AT YOUR IMPACT VELOCITY
@@quarterminutemagnums No it is not Tony. I would agree with you that it is not the primer set to .001 of an inche, not trimmed necks, not super brass, but modern bullets and modern barrels. I just think it is more fun to shoot (6) solid Xs out of (8) shoots with a class f rifle using class f rests and not some rail gun. And if you are asking why (8) shoots, it was that they closed the range.
I think a lot of the issue with regard to the perceived accuracy difference between barrels is due to very low sample numbers used to measure the difference. You show 3 targets amounting to 9 shots. No matter what the result is, 9 shots is simply way too low a sample number to conclude anything. Taking individual 3 shot groups measured alone & not aggregated also gives false data as to the rifles total dispersion. When higher sample numbers are used & every shot position recorded, you will find, more often than not that, the differences between barrels is not so great as you presently think.
@@quarterminutemagnums Experience is not statistics & the two are usually mutually exclusive. The more experience, the less robust statistical samples are used. It's a self defeating circular argument. The whole idea of analysis by statistics is to remove all bias from the testing, to exclude all external influences, especially previous experience.
Dear Sir - as a factory, SAAMI round, agreed. As a custom, properly designed round, with a Berger 210g, I disagree. Granted, the 30 Nosler is better, but the old .300 Win. Mag. is still a great cartridge! Thanks..............
so... at 4 minutes in, you say you don't want to make "a half-hour video," (the video winds up being 31 minutes long). And the you show us half a dozen targets, you get a bullet out, tell us 3 times to look at it... and finally, at 6 1/2 minutes into this, you get around to your thesis: But a good barrel, but really outstanding performance comes down to a great build PLUS a good dose of "luck of the draw."
