Feld should add the 125 sx class to the season. Call it the futures, run it east and west coast as they do for the 250 class and let these kids get more seat time before going straight to the pro's and potentially having a career ending incident or worse a crash. This alone would grow the sport to a completely higher level in a good way.
Research “bucket racing” in Australia and New Zealand. We had a $1000 cap on bikes. To keep people honest, if you won a championship anyone could come and offer you a grand and you had to sell to them. Great low cost entry into road racing. I loved it
I paid 750 for my bike and resurrected it. I couldn't imagine winning a race with it and somebody asking me to sell it and having to accept the offer. That's really how it works?? I'm curious
At 43 years old that’s all I still ride, 125’s. I ventured on the bigger bikes and honestly just didn’t have as much fun! I’m a strictly track guy. Don’t ride trails or anything else. I am really not any slower on a 125 but there are almost no sketchy moments on the 125. There is a place for the 125 and I think it needs more attention.
Companies could sell 125's in a crate that need to be assembled by the customer from ground up. That way you eliminate a lot of the labor costs for the factory and you give the rider the opportunity to learn one of the most important things about being in the sport: How to work on your bike. And, 125's are a pain in the ass to get right. They are challenging at every turn. Great podcast, man. Thanks for the content as always.
...I have an 02 RM250 and I'm prepping for the 2022 Centralian Masters Games. Have been pondering getting a 125....like a newer YZ and make it all white, red seat and radiator cowl with 1985 N decals....or all white, read seat and YZM '88 decals. The 02 RM250 rips.
Absolutely agree there should be a pro 125 class. Gypsy Tales at the Baja Brawl in Michigan at the end of the summer. A ton of great racing and many other extras. Think about it.😎👍
Agreed and a open vet class. Whoever shows up and feels like it that weekend. 8 laps. Pay Kdub, pastrana, Stewart some chump change to have fun. I’d pay to watch them have fun. Value added
@@601braap2 obviously supermini would not be the fastest. They just have the most fans. Non pro sport/ A classes will have the best times. Not by a huge margin tho
Imagine all the up and comers on factory rides starting out in a pro 125 SX and MX series instead of going straight to the 250's. That would be insane. Better for spectators and it would be better for the riders to get that experience. It could be regional as well too save on travel costs for the riders, too.
They honestly need to bring back 2 strokes for all the manufacturers as that’s what people that love dirt bikes look at and even people that aren’t even in the sport look back to the 90s and early 2000s 🤷🏻 I really think all the manufacturers need to stop competing together and start making the sport bigger as prices of bikes are insane and you can’t get them and same with used dirt bikes there stupid prices asking 4k for a 25 year old yz125 here in the uk. But they need to bring back racing a 125 as that’s the bike people want to go with as if you crash you have a lot less of a chance of braking something unlike a 450, you will have a huge smile if you get faster, they smell extremely good and there really cheap to rebuild
Ping's spot on. Heck, I decided to get out as a Vet rider when the 4 strokes really took over -- too many guys who couldn't turn would just square a turn up and send it over jumps that they would have never hit on a even a 250 two stroke.
Basically is a pro class in Europe for juniors in EMX has been for years, again, no surprise why Europeans are now better at outdoors, many other non US countries have 125s in a National class. In Europe some private Kawi teams are using 125 engines in 250f modified frames! Yamaha just released a brand new mostly updated 125. when will people wake up and smell the bacon in this sport… Legit 125s in EMX, Yamaha, KTM, Husky, GasGas, Fantic Kit, Kawi No shows Suzuki (literally a no show in any class anyways) Honda (we don’t like 2strokes anyway) Wouldn’t be hard for Beta and Sherco to enter the fray, a Sherco 125 won a coulle rounds of the Aussie 125 Nat class a couple of years back and that was an ex retired racer, that’s the thing and always has been about 125s a good bike, but good rider is even more important and most important it develops good riders at any age at any level, always has, it’s not a learner bike, but it’s def a developer class and at the top level throughout history only a few were truly exceptional on 125s vs the rest. Today it’s the most underrated class yet it’s still the most important class ignored by AMA and it’s only hurt them and the future of the current riders and upcoming riders.
I’m hoping rising stars out of America but it’s not looking good. Those kids in EMX125 are lights out. AMA needs a national 125 class on the pro-circuit for age
Well really in order for any of this to happen someone needs to replace the AMA and MXSports and FELD. Those organizations are a fucking joke. But I'd also like to point out a contributing factor for Europeans being better at outdoors is the fact that they only race outdoors and not supercross.
@@acjo8975 Well yes but not because SX itself is the problem, it’s the focus, otherwise how do you equate that when the US dominated for 13 straight years when they raced SX one weekend and Mx another, when they had 3 class outdoors and only one true SX class where all the best racers regardless of age raced in the premier class. SX actually made the US stronger, tracks and over grooming over man made have had an effect and also imo the jump to 250fs from minis is too big a gap, it’s no coincidence that when they brought in the EMX class’s esp the 125 class it helped develop the Euro riders, this also happens in EnduroGPs where they have 2 junior class’s at the same rounds as the senior pros! I don’t believe it has anything to do with SX other than riders focusing on that for sure..
Agreed, but not sure if riders trying to clear today’s jumps on a 125 is going to be very safe either. 450’s need to get capped at 350cc instead now that four stroke technology has matured, and jumps need to get smaller too. Motocross in general has become too dangerous with today’s horse power. Locally a lot of people are turning to technical single track due to the injuries in motocross. It super challenging, even more of a workout, and the injuries are bumps in bruises instead of broken bones.
I flagged at the southwick National A few years ago when they had the 125 race. Imagine standing 3 feet from 40 125’s as they fly by. It was awesome sound and smell!!!
I was talking about emx125 how they should implement something like it in America the other day. Would be awesome to see it and I’m sure there’d be great battles.
I done a blog about this back in 2013! I was seeing more and more kids here in the uk jumping straight from 85cc to 250f. At that time there wasn’t a class for 125cc progression but thankfully organisers here have made some changes and also the MXGP follows a good 65-85-125-250 European progression now. Manufacturers still have a huge part to play in all of this.
Been following you for a while mate, this is the one! This is how we sort out the sport not just locally but worldwide. This is the podcast to push high to the manufacturers. I'm a budget rider. I have a family. I ride as much as I can. I'm a mechanic by trade thank god as I've got a KXF250 but if a 125 comes by at the right price then I'm buying it. They are so much fun and a piston or engine build is so cheap in comparison. I rag this 2009 250f to the max and every time I come off the track I'm like "thank god it didn't blow up!". Bring back 125's and manufacturer should release them like mountainbikes with 2/3 levels of spec and varying cost. Budget bike 1500 less or so because 9/10 times someone new has no idea what fancy gizmos like different maps, fat bars, fancy tyres, launch control... what is this F1??? Costs down = new riders Plus 125s are freaking sick... that noise 💦💦💦 #bringingbackmoto
Good points made by David on 125, I never wanted anything above that back when I raced. It had the speed and was all out fun to ride, our lap times were great!
ive been saying this for years, to bad people in the industry dont listen. a 125cc class will make better racers and would be alot less money to race. im also think they should get rid of 450's and max out with 350's, but thats a different convo........
Only experience I have with a 350, is that my buddy had one for a few months that he barely even started. How do 350 four strokes compare to 250 two strokes?
@@PitbikeGawd they are faster than the 250 2 strokes, there almost as fast as a 450, arenacross dropped the 450's a few years ago. hell Kalib Russell (7 time gncc champ) raced the 350 alot and won. look at lap times in even outdoors, even the 250f's are really close to 450 times.
Totally agree with this. I’m a vet and have raced motocross and enduro on 450’s and 300 smokers … I ride a 2008 RM125 and a 2013 150sx. Most fun I’ve ever had on a bike. Love the little smokers!!!
Been saying this for years!!!!! Plus watching smokers race is the best!! The smell the noise..heaven!! Been a 2 stroker since 73!! And just am in the process of getting a new one at 61 years young!! Yz125!!!
I raced go karts as a kid for about 12 years. Now as an adult my pops and I have had conversations about the cost of karting, and its unbelievable. You guys are right though. Somehow get the cost down, and get 125's out there. They are a blast to ride. MX can be such a dope sport, even as you get older. I'm 30 and still having a blast on my 250f.
here in the Netherlands you had a motocross dealer. Where you could lease Suzuki 125. you had to be between the ages of 14 and 24 to participate. you were required to wear the same clothes with the name of the race series. (bonenberg cup) you got the clothing with an extra discount from the same dealer. and after the season you had to return your bike. and for the next season you could lease a new Suzuki 125 again. (bonenberg cup).
Lmao!…”Sling papers”…I had a paper route and mowed yards so I could buy an XR80. THE FIRST Sunday morning that I owned it, I snuck it out of the garage and used it to deliver my papers cause my parents were still in bed. Got stopped by the cops and they took me to my parents. THE NEXT Sunday that I owned it….my parents made me sell it….😢
PING !! Big fan of your work ! We got a 125cc U17 ( think its beteende 14-17 years) 125cc Mx Class here in sweden , best step to go race that after the 85cc , 1-2 year 125cc racingspel and then go to race the 250F bikes when they are 16-17 years old instead go race 250f at the age 15 🤔!
A lot of truth to this. Same thing happened in Karting, pricing got insane, over $10k for a shifter kart (new chassis and motor), $220-300 for tires every race, etc. Around $7-8k for 125cc TAG package (new). Something many people don't know as well, some of the very top racers might go through 2-4 chassis in a season, just because they are supposed to be slightly faster when new (thats $4-5k each chassis). Eventually people see the sport needs some new blood and a grassroots movement towards older tech (usually used) IAME KPV motors (100cc air cooled, 2 strokes) that would cost under $1k, and guys bought used chassis for $1-2K. They would form a new class and use a spec tire that was slightly harder (so could last up to 3 or so races) and use pump gas (vs VP). All of the sudden we start seeing a ton of new guys come out. Guys that normally wouldn't race, but only do "practice days" (like I do in Moto), but would pull up on a race day and see all the box vans, and team tents and all the hard core guys and just say "screw this, this is way beyond what I want to do". Now they had a place to go and race and just have fun. Different series call the classes different names (clubman, sportsman, etc...). The crazy thing is, just like anything else, the bug bites and before you know it we are spending 5 figures a year to race, but we love it!!!! There is now a class between the 125cc TAG and the older 100cc, that sort of combines the tech from both, to bring the cost down (motors are $1,000 less). It really isn't a ton cheaper than the 125cc TAG, but it is more simple (air cooled) so a little easier to work on. All of the sudden the more serious guys from the KPV jump to this class, and many guys (even top pros) drop down, because they see the hype and want to be part of it. Lately our class has gone from 10-15 guys to OVER 30 guys!! in just 2 years. Its insane (the bad part is going from getting a podium every race to now being mid pack, racing against national level pro guys, but in the end its still fun AF and makes you a better racer. Yes, they still have the cheaper/budget KPV class, and its a great entry point into the sport. Karting also has a 4 stroke briggs and stratton class too, but they sound like freaking lawnmowers and I just can't handle the sound. Would be sick if Moto would do the same, classes based on experience as well as displacement and maybe year of the bike? So many used bikes out there in the $2,000 to 4,000 range (pre-COVID) that probably can't compete with new bikes (thinking like a 2004 CRF250R compared to a new 2021 CRF250R, etc...). Would be cool if they figured it out.
I agree. 125's are important as are 80's and 65's. I couldnt make my way around a track lol and went from a 125cc I bought at 20yrs old (a brand new 2005 yz 125) and 4 years later bought an 06kx 450, hurt myself nearly every time I rode the 450. That 125 was so much fun
Totally agreed there more affordable and I feel a 125 teaches you how to ride a bike when you learn on a four-stroke it's not the same as learning on a 2 stroke on a two-stroke you have two whatsoever learn how to use the clutch correctly not only just for taking off from a stop or stopping agreed going from a 85 to a 250 F is too big of a jump I rode my 4-stroke around for months without even having a clutch on it my cable broke and I couldn't even get one at the time try that on a****** two-stroke definitely cheaper than go-karts I raced both growing up we were not rich and I'm not trying to tooting my own horn but the go-karts went away before the dirt bikes the dirt bikes are still going in my life and I am 43 now
Look at Stewart for anyone who doubts skill when it comes to a 125. If you can master a 125, you can basically do anything. Best bike I ever owned was a 2006 YZ125 and I rode the BALLS off of that thing. It took throttle control, clutch control, body weight movement and flat out skill if you wanted to move around that track. Rebuilds were cheap, and hospital bills were even cheaper. VIVA LA 125!
BVC off-road is making a bolt on conversion kits for CR500’s to put into a crf450 chassis. In their videos they mention designing something for 125’s if people want it. Check them out, maybe have them on the podcast!
Ping has nailed it. This is possibly the most important conversation about the survival of this sport there is. Ultimately, the four stroke engine with its unnecessary complexity, weight and expense will kill our sports from the bottom up.
Here in South Africa we have a 125cc Highschool class, Give the young guys a solid year or 2 on a "Big Bike" before stepping up to 250f (MX2) which is the most competitive class in the country. Us older guys regionally race in an over 35yr 125cc class which is loads of fun.
Im looking into getting a 125 as well. 18 I've been working a job, it is true 125s should be brough back in the official schedule or events. They are low on cost and takes a lot of skill. My first bike was a kx 100 although 125 is just 25 cubic cenntimeter more than the supermini, the frame is bigger and different. For right now im saving up to get a truck and a bike and some gear.
@8:30 my friend you are so ahead of it! all you need is a universal chassis and you could plug and play everything else!! How cool!! Like making your own AR!! You get 5200 pts and flipped the game
Bevo was talkin about an old Yamaha, the dt1 or something like that. It was the bike they all raced because it was inexpensive as a stocker, but you could spend as much as you wanted making it fast. And he said they sold tons of them.
Im just seeing this now and he is 💯 percent correct ! I got out of racing because of the price of a new 450f ...had to buy a house and get my family taken care of first , couple years ago got my kid a 2021 yamaha yz65 with my discounts and everything got it for 5k and thats still a hell of a lot for a kids dirtbike , they have totally priced the average joe out of the sport .
Last time I checked there is a 125cc class at most amateur events... Technically speaking, there is support from 4 of the 5 manufacturers that are currently giving support to amateurs. (Gas Gas, Husky, KTM, Yamaha) Kawasaki being the only other manufacturer that currently has a viable amateur program. Beta, Sherco, and TM are also options. Honda is going carbon neutral (electric), Suzuki isn't developing/supporting any new dirt bikes, Kawasaki is developing their super mini, which is actually faster due to it's superior power to weight ratio. In addition premier off road series like GNCC, NGPC, and WORCS all have classes you can ride a 125cc in.
High schoolers first bike. I always recommend a stock WR250f. Get used to the bike. Run a dozen tanks of fuel through it. Then do the GYTR comp kit. Poof, double the power. Still not as quick as the YZ version. If after riding that for a year or two you want more, at least you are experienced enough at that point.
Hayden is going 250 right after Loretta's skipping 125. He is signing with somebody after the race for his pro career. Check Their RU-vid channel it's all there
@@Ogt92 I know he is brother my point was at least he is ridding a 125 and has been for moths when he isn’t riding his super mini so he knows what’s it’s like to have a difficult bike to ride super cross on kinda like Evan ferry did.
FINALLY SOMEONE WITH CLOUT ECHOS MY SENTIMENT if you learn to ride on a 2 stroke you will be better rider riding a two stroke vs 4Stk is like comparing playing a violin to being a DJ . you have to in time and in tune ..Add a YZ 125 class every one rides a yz 125 supersport class like 600s pipe jet kit only You could totally get Yamaha to sponsor it .
Bring back the 125 All Star races back, it would promote it fast down to the amateur level.. most local racing still has 125/250 2 stroke classes , sadly barely anybody rides them
This subject is a great idea. Bring on the 125cc two stroke "STOCK" specs bike in the motor and exhaust. Like, right out of the crate stock. Suspension should also be in the spec sheet. So those who race in this class will be at least on an even machine. The changes apply on rider comfort, tires and plastics graphics (make it their own) looks. Riders should have at least 2 years riding abilities and are physically/mentally able to compete. Tracks can modify their layouts and size of jumps to keep the riders safe. Then this sport can grow into a bigger and better means for all who want to race. Like the guys said, this will give those who cannot afford 5K race rockets just to compete. It will also give those upcoming talented riders an opportunity to show the recruits how they do on a smaller stock motorcycle. The age group can be for the teenagers who does not have a fat wallet. You can also add in former riders (vets) say over 40 and compete on the same size spec motorcycle and keep it safe for those who want to still compete. Much like a sportsman class. Purses can be applied in a form of support (tire companies giving out tires etc...) to keep the cost of these machines up to date and running. All motorcycle companies can build this for market and their own competition. Much like how the Trans Am car series competed for bragging rights. It's just a thought!
totally agree that its the lowest entry cost for pretty much any motorsport. by far. i used to race oval track cars, and its not even close. i think they should just have a 125 class that has to be bone stock 125s. every part on it just has to be stock, down to the forks and handlebars. yamaha or the austrian brands could set up a series where they do that with their bikes. but if the bikes have to be bone stock, you wouldnt have the people that supe their bikes up, which is probably what you would just be trying to avoid. in car racing there are series that require sealed engines so people cant supe up the internals. it seems like it would be an easy series to set up
I have a comment for that budget class idea; I live in Finland and we have this car racing series roughly translated as "folk racing" or "every guys series" or something like that. It's basically rallycross on a really shitty, beat up cars. The idea is, that after the race at the pits you can walk to anyone and they HAVE to sell their car to you for 2000€. That is literally the rule and it's one of the most popular series of all motorsports here. No one wants to spend 10k on a car that you have to sell for 2k. I dunno if something like that would work at GH events for example.
The 125 class (200 technically but it's full of 125s) is alive and well in the offroad scene, at least here in New England. Just as many bikes as the 250 class. Love it.
I'm a new rider. I got about 4 hours on a Yz250 2 stroke. Nearly shit myself how much power these bike make. My goal for the first few rides was just to stay alive. I have no interest in buying a 450.
I like that idea. You'd just have to make the rules of the class reflect that. Like he said, no aftermarket bars or sprockets or any of that, gotta be all cheap, stock parts, and then stick to that. Sticking to it would be the hardest part because I've seen in dirt circle track racing the "power creep" that keeps happening in the lesser classes, the prices for the "cheap" class just keeps getting ratcheted up and it will NEVER come back down..
Call me what you want but the last bike I raced was a 2007 sxf250 I rode it for 3 years and got out of racing at 18 years old, and didn’t touch a bike for 6 years. My buddy bought a 2017 kx450, I put 5 laps on it and said NOPE, thing was nuts. And looking back on my racing career I believe I would have been much better off going from a 85 to a 125 than straight to a 250f like I did
48 only ride the 125 I have had everything but a 450. Learning comes from the 125 it’s a must not just for kids but adults too. I started riding at 40.
Got my first motocross bike a 01 yz125 at 16 for $1,300, best decision I’ve ever made. In a year I can do almost every jump at my local track (E-street) it really is the perfect bike for someone who didn’t have the fundamentals to ride only a year ago
Ping is absolutely correct. I am a Vet rider. A few years ago my 450 was waiting on parts so I loaded up my YZ 125 and went to the races. The same guys I would beat on my 450 I beat on my 125 plus I had much more fun.
I rode a rm125 for 2 years on my step from superminis to big bikes. I really can’t imagine going to a heavy a$$ 250f when I was barely over 5 foot and 120lbs. Really sad and disappointed for young kids or anyone really that want a 125, price in NorCal is insane and that started almost pre-covid. Your lucky to find any mfg. 125 for less than $3k right now
This guy gets it 👏. If the hero manufacturers don't get behind him, you'll lose these talented kids to roaring up and down a back street on a pit bike with no baffling. The technology they offer in modern bikes is fantastic and benefits established riders. But it shorely hurts the sports future more than is first obvious imo. Not only do u miss out on the up and coming talent, but a good portion of the sports advide fan base is guys and girls that competed at a club level at one time or another and recognise the talent required to perform like the pros. You won't get the same following from a bunch of game board fanatics or pit bike louts. I see it at a club level now in the small towns. So many young guys scrounge together everything they got or badger their parents to death to come up with the dollars to purchase a 2nd hand modernish 250f 2 minutes later it spreads the engine intervals all over the place due to its previous abuse or non existent maintenance. But it looked pretty with new graffics ect. People at this level are nearly never of an experience level with mechanical things to piece it back together again and with a 4st even then there's a bunch of extra expense in the top end components alone. But most are faced with a dealship bill exceeding the value of the bike and they give up with bad taste in their mouth about the sport and what it costs.
125! I've ridden enough of them but never owned one. I always thought it was odd kawi had a kx100 when no other manufacturers had a gap bike. Ktm had a 105. I would love to see suzuki bring back the rm. Even if they just remade the exact bike from 03 it was a great bike!
If he said 125cc as a lone class so we have got 3 classes but we then don't show the heats in the actual nightshow. Then FUCK YEAH HE IS 100% RIGHT! THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE SPORT NEEDS
I agree 125 2 stroke school boy ....class is in it really is good training i got a 125cc pro bike 2 actually because i worked at a race shop..but hating it at first be cause i really thought the 250 2 str would have power that suited me better i began really like the lightness of the 125cc an these were nationals bike so the motors when i got in sync with a 125 rider...i was beating guys on 250cc an 500cc bikes bevause i could ride the 125cc at full tilt make it do things...a little more torque for jumps is why i thought the 250cc 2 stroke would make a difference but after improving my jumping skill thay really was not to big of a deal....thanks to a gary bailey video on jumping...i went oh shite i could had a V8...juice...that is what everyone is doing wtong exvept forJeremy Mcgrath...an emig
The 125 all star class was a great idea, there should be a high level amateur class that is a championship where the kids can go to different dirts and elevation and I think that it would get Honda, Kawasaki, and Suzuki to bring those bikes back and make a mature riders have a good idea for what there going into
125 racing is the best racing I've ever witnessed. I've been watching pro racing since 1971 and I've seen DeCoster, Lackey, Pomeroy, Mikkola, Bailey and Staten on the open bikes, I've watched Hannah on 250's, Falta, Johnson, Ward, O'Mara, Barnett, Jones, etc. but the best racing I've ever seen was on 125s. Smith, Hannah, DeRoover, Glover, Barnett, O'Mara they were all just incredible and displayed some of the most incredible racing on this planet. 250Fs are useless and heavy. There is absolutely no reason to call them a race bike.
