A great example of this is the first zeppelin record. It really shows how powerful your sound could be with less. In many moments on the record, the distortion is nowhere near what we as players hear and thus try to emulate.
I'd love to see a similar video on reverb. Too much of it might sound great on its own, but like distortion it can remove definition and add mud to the tone in the context of a full mix.
(Deep voice) “Are you a middle class suburbanite looking to compensate for the fact that you’ve never worked a blue collar job in your life? Are you trapped in a sexless marriage while suffering from ED? Reclaim your manhood with the all new 2023 gas guzzler…” *guitar riff*
For me, on your original play clip you have too much low frequencies going into the distortion which make it a bit of a mess. It would sound fine with the same distortion set on the amp and less bass on the settings. Actually when you cut the bass frequencies the saturation on the preamp stage also drops a bit.
Or just slap a Tube screamer in front of it with the drive on zero, volume on 10, and tone set to 2 oclock, boom fits right in the mix and sounds great.
Did too, the result is immediate : when playing gigs I started getting compliments from other guitarists (better than me) on my tone, and that's quite a feeling
@@DerEchteBold Edge of breakup is a starting point foundation! Add your choice of effects to build the sound. Ex. Guitar-flanger-compressor-clean boost-amp-fx loop-chorus-delay-reverb. Could always add, a couple of more bells & whistles. There are no set rules.
@@jonathandanielmartinez2949 Hmm... but if you see it like that, instead of improving something that lacks in sound you would usually want to start with something that sounds good already, right!? Well, to me this doesn't at all.
This is a great video Rhett. I wonder how much of our tendency to add higher levels of gain has to do with how many of us record today. With more and more players playing at home at low volumes, it's really easy to lose sight of the fact that many of the records we love (especially live albums) were recorded at much higher volumes where the guitar tone got an assist from the amount of air being moved and helping the guitar sustain more. So when our tone lacks the same "energy" our first instinct is to add more gain or distortion. It does give us more sustain, but we lose clarity.
Some of the biggest rock tracks were actually played on very small amps. Layla was played on a Fender Champ. Little amps can sound big and allow you to use much better but sometimes more fragile mics. Things like ribbon mics would never take the punishment of a Marshall stack.
It's not about gain, its about frequency. Hence, a fuzz vs a 5150II. The fuzz is what the video's author says is not good, where a 5150II, crunch switch in, is what he says it 'clean', and 'good'. Seems quite silly, and absolute...to sell a product. Shame context is ignored for, 'less pre-amp be more gooder, regardless of the guitar/song/band/venue/speakers/etc...' Please, tell Ted Nugent his 5150 is, 'too much distortion'.
Jim Lill made a great video called "the one thing every influential guitar tone has in common". In that video he took samples of his guitar directly in front of a cranked Marshall half stack and samples of his guitar not in the presence of loud volumes. When he played the sound files back of the 2 recorded guitars you could not hear any difference between the two guitar parts. Psychologically it might make you play different, but you could not hear the difference on the recorded guitar part
Couple of takeaways: Doesn't matter so much how or what you used to get the sound you're after - but once you have a sound you like, know how you got it / and how to replicate it: Always listen to your guitars in the band mix - what sounds great alone may have frequency clash or clarity issues; Trust your ears!
Yes! Most guitarists always want their inst. to sound like a live setup when they record instead of finding its place in the mix. I almost always drop out the low end unless the guitar is playing on its own.
Jimmy Page was a master of the interplay of instruments in rock music. When you hear just the guitar on an epic track such as Immigrant Song, it doesn't sound all that impressive on its own, but when paired with Jones' bass and Bonham's drums underneath it, it sounds freaking MASSIVE. Page really understood how the bass and drums and guitar all served the riffs and the songs.
@@jeffwheeler3504 A lot of times what you hear on the record is studio distortion from having gone through the transformer(s) at the mixing desk. There's an interview somewhere with Angus (or one of them) talking about how much more guitar distortion is on the final recording than what they're actually using.
It's all about the vibe you're going far and of course personal taste. I actually preferred the heavy version over the cleaned up version, but at the same time, to me, it isn't like one is vastly better than the other.
a balance of higher and lower gain is a good option. i feel like the higher gain prs for the chunk with the lower gain novo to preserve the sparkle and definition would be a good balance.
When play with a band, even in metal the principle is valid. Having high distortion you easily lose definition. Also what sounds good alone or in your bedroom, is not the same in a full band or recording situation. Less bass, more mids and barely treble combined with not very high distortion always kicks!!! I have tried in rehearsal room with the band at "playing" volume. A lot of reviews of distortion (in fact great) pedals/modelers on youtube, shows almost full distortion setup, but in real life that specific pedal doesn't sound as good as they pretend and you can get the best going to max 1/2 o'clock with the distortion. This video it's a good starting point: the sound in the room, alone, versus in a full mix/recording!!!
This is something I love about the Klon. It's "enough" distortion. But it's not capable of giving you too much. Sometimes, practicing alone in my room, it is unsatisfying. But in any actual context, it's plenty.
This is critical to good sound in a band live. Bedroom sound is one thing. I gig regularly in a few bands. Over the years I have constantly dialed back the gain more and more. It's amazing how little I play with now and get the best tone ever. And I don't get lost in the mix!
I'm curious what that riff would have sounded like with one guitar running the heavy gain and the other one with the cleaner setting. I kind of liked the sound of the chords better on the heavy takes and the single-note riffs slightly more on the cleaner setting. Maybe a combination of the two would be the best of both worlds?
I've done this before and it definitely works. Another way to get an articulate and also thick guitar sound is to take a DI track along with a high gain track and then mix the two together, with or without some kind of re-amping or amp emulation on the DI track. The DI track is maximum clean, dynamic range, and articulation. The gain track is kind of the opposite. Combined with good EQ decisions made on the gain track and maybe some compression on the DI track, along with good mixing for the rest of the sounds, this really can be a best-of-both-worlds sound, as long as the music calls for it. I have long preferred to both double track and double amp guitars, giving me four total guitar tracks (guitar 1 amp 1, guitar 1 amp 2, guitar 2 amp 1, guitar 2 amp 2). You can always mute one of the amp sounds if it's really wrong, but I find mixing two different sounds for each part gives me a lot of ways to fix or enhance the guitar tracks. Plus if you want that wide stereo sound of double tracked guitars panned left and right, having the separate amp sounds for each part let you be even wider!
I've found this (overlaying a cleaner sound over a thicker/heavier sound) works well. It doesn't even sound like two layers, just adds clarity to the fuzzier layer.
This was really good Rhett. This is the exact reason why I subscribe to your channel. having said that, there is so much truth to this. I always find myself backing off the distortion when I record, but having it full on when I jam alone.
Excellent video Rhett.....Well explained. Took me years to figure this out. I remember mastering at the Record Plant and wondering why my guitar was getting buried in the mix. It was to late to go back to Studio D to track. EQ was my only friend at that point and every session I did past that our producer (Bill Cutler) reminded me to use my gain sparingly to stand out in the blanket of the other stringed insturments. These small classes your putting out are great and look forward to the next. Cheers Dave
I learned this from Ola Englund. When trying to dial in a good rhythm metal tone, try to use as little gain as possible to get your sound, then cut it back just a little for recording. It allows for more dynamics and responds to you digging into the strings for heavy chugs!
Great video, this is one of the most important lessons I’ve learned about dialing in my sound. Even metal players like Matt Pike from Sleep talk about how they really just use a medium overdrive sound.
Wow this came at the right time, been playing as i lay dying and my tone would get very muddy with the backing tracl, thanks Rhett, love your stuff man 👌
I actually liked BOTH guitar tones and agree on both fronts because I've always thought the guitar's tone should fit the song. Imagine 'War Pigs' without Tony Iommi's sludgy, thick tone or Santana's 'Black Magic Woman" without the singing sustain. Both of those legendary examples would likely not be the the classic sounds many of us know and love. I believe what matters more is what you're trying to achieve within the overall sound of the song. I do agree that less gain can make a guitar part stand out, but I also think it's worth looking at what you're trying to achieve with the song itself. Many legendary guitarists achieved their heaviness through production rather than gain and there are countless examples of that anywhere you care to listen. Nice CE too, Rhett!
Malcolm Young had the best rhythm sound and was mostly a clean sound, but then Angus would have a more crunchy sound which complemented his brothers sound- which made the ultimate ACDC sound!!!
your shows are jam packed with intelligent method and concise information rhett ! great to see your level of applied experience yet still having fun doing it your way ,its always time well spent. 👍
As an audio engineer I learned so much about exactly what you were talking about rhett. A lot of it is just phase cancellation and EQ and frequencies and it's all compression and left right up down forward backwards that's what's so cool about engineering a record is you can place things because of all those things and that certainly has a huge impact on what is in front of the mix what is behind the mix etc .......thank you rhett for your channel, it's very informative I always love watching you because you tackle things in a way that keeps it very interesting.
If you mix layer distortion back to front, heavy distortion sans added compression goes in the back, & the cleanest goes in front with added light compression/peak limiting as needed. Combined the sound will be huge while retaining dynamics.
What do you mean by "back to front" here? Volume levels? Or placing them in a "space" by making the guitar in the "back" have more reverb than the on in the front?
@@jorgemartinez42069 Could be accomplished more than one way. The most simple is just volume mixing, but you can get more depth if record with depth to begin with. You get depth by microphone placement in the the space & microphone selection. You can also flip it around. Oh, you need a really good space/room. I digress. Put the distortion in front & the clean in back. To me reverb is like compression. Really don't want it all over the place. But ymmv. Whatever works.
@@jorgemartinez42069 I understand him to mean front as earlier in the signal chain & back as later. The guitar in ft. amp in back as the signal flows.I could be wrong bc. it threw me at first.
I understood the original comment perfectly (in my mind). All the responses got weirder and more complicated. Lol I’ll stick to what I “thought” I understood. Haha
Great tip for getting a crisp and thick heavily distorted tone within a mix: double the part with a clean acoustic with heavy strings and keep it panned in sync with the heavy guitar so they blend well, cutting a bit off the low end EQ on the acoustic. The percussive sound of the acoustic strings plus the crisp upper harmonics makes the distorted guitar sound absolutely massive and allows the notes in the riff to stand out
Whoa. That's an awesome idea. I use a lot of chunk when i record. My method has always been to put a tiny bit of chorus or phaser on. Can't wait to give that a shot.
Judging by your handle, I'd guess your taste in music is probably a bit different than Rhett's and thus would lean more towards the distortion side with metal and then rely on other techniques with EQ and such to make space for the wall of sound that hyper distorted guitars produce.
Being a rock metal player. I've been discovering over time that, the heavy tones are indeed the ones that are much more clean than you think. I use a Mesa Mark III for all my Thrashy stuff, and I always leave the gain on 4 and no more.
I think the threshold should be wherever you can hear every note in the chord. This threshold shifts depending on the chords you play; I use 7th chords a lot so I tend to play cleaner (a fender twin at 6-8 is my happy place) but as Rhett pointed out more gain sounds awesome with power chords. So basically use however much gain you think sounds good, but remember that you already know what the chords are; the audience doesn't. Make sure they can hear them
Unless you want a big wall of something, I dub guitars with a LOT of fuzz and use them as "beds" for the "heavy" guitars (not that distorted at all) and it does wonders filling those small gaps below the band, kind of like using synths or organs for the same purpose
It really all depends on your style of music and preference. I personally would've gone with the heavier riff cuz I just love that heavy saturated tone but the clean riff is great if you love the dynamic and twangy sound.
Yeah it sounded way better. It had more guts and sounded more exciting to my ears. Definition is great but it isn't everything- sometimes you want it, but it depends on the effect you're going for. 1st clip rocked harder
Also makes a massive difference if the backing track matches guitars that are heavier. Just like saying your guitar doesn’t have enough gain and putting a clean channel in front of death metal rhythm.
Yeah I think the other thing to consider is that so many bands, especially in punk and grunge, went into the studio and used maximum distortion because they were coming from a place of less experience in a generation that had access to higher distortion. The result may be dirty and messy, but that means it gives listeners a different impression - not a better or worse impression. And nowadays it has been normalized enough that it is a completely acceptable option. The value in knowing the difference is being able to decide whether the sound you are looking for requires more or less gain.
I guess it really depends on what you're going for. I have found your advice to be true, but sometimes more is more (like Malmsteen would say) Listen to Fu Manchu's "King of the Road" for a master class in fuzz and heavy distortion. Just killer stuff.
I noticed this phenomenon, or whatever you want to call it, years ago on Led Zeppelin recordings; As a kid listening to Zeppelin I always 'heard' the guitar parts as heavily over-driven; but as I got more experienced, and developed a more critical ear, and then later was able to hear the tracks soloed, I was surprised by how often the distortion level was a lot less than I'd imagined... And as in Rhett's example, often it was the many layers of guitar tracks that created that huge gritty sound. Jimmy Page demonstrated tremendous sophistication in guitar tone/recording, especially when you consider how long ago it was, and how limited their tools were then, compared to now...
Often discussed, rarely demonstrated so well. Thanks, Rhett! Learning to turn the gain down when appropriate was an absolutely game changer! That Pedal Show is other channel that also demonstrate this idea. Also, love that CE22. Cheers!
I have a question, that tone in the beginning was pretty good, so can’t you just mix the entire track differently to make it fit? Like Hendrix had a ton of gain from his fuzz, and Kurt contain had a literal ds1 with ear bleeding gain and it sounds amazing??? So I don’t really understand why you can’t just mix it differently
It’s what you want out of the tone. Personally I thought it sounded great heavy. Most metal heads use incredibly distorted tones. But that’s not necessarily always pleasing. If you do what to mix it to sound better, I would recommend cutting some of the low end frequencies and then putting a transient designer to strengthen the attack.
Excellent video. Extremely helpful. I feel like didn’t realize that “less is more” until I started gigging . You will suddenly figure out that what worked well in your bedroom, doesn’t translate well in a live band mix. Plus, I always remember that Dave Friedman once said “the greats don’t actually use a lot of distortion”.
I mean yes and no. The problem isn’t necessarily the gain it’s the eq and the gain combined. You can leave that same gain structure and eq differently to get a much better sound. This only really matters when you play both clean and distorted and switch between. Kinda tells me you don’t get high gain sounds. If you’re a hard rock player and don’t play clean this advice is going to give you a headache. Jerry Cantrell isn’t turning down the gain, trust me.
In my opinion, heavier settings sounded better for this specific track but I get the point. Sometimes, lower gain tones sound a lot bigger because you're left with more space in the mix. Btw, you also can't go wrong with a PRS whatever tone u choose :) Great video!
Already really liked your videos. But I gotta say your production value has just continued to improve to a seriously top shelf level. Really appreciate all your hard work.
A very common "sound issue" that I have heard a lot of great players have is to play really distorted parts with POUNDS and POUNDS of delay and reverb. No!!! Stop it!!
Actually, I think that guitar sound at the beginning sounds atrocious; no bite, no power, flabby all around. I wouldn't listen to any record that sounded like that.
Thanks Rhett for this video. I learned a lot in 15 minutes. I'm a metal guy so the more gain the better but I totally get what you're trying to show us here. I'll go to bed more informed tonight so thank you :)
Fantastic video Rhett! Love how you went through the physics of sound as well, as it is very important to learn in order to really understand what's going on in music when it comes to mixing, arranging, and trying to manipulate sound. I do think that the amp itself plays a huge role in this as well. Some amps fall apart if pushed too much, but high-gain amps (Mesa Mark Series, EVH 5153 etc.) that are designed to handle higher amounts of distortion can be turned up to 10 with no loss in clarity or low end flub out since the tone stack can help tame all of that. Wattage/clean headroom so that's another major factor. My trick is to find the sweet spot and work from there. There's also the whole pre-amp gain vs power-amp consideration as well. So many areas to explore, and factors to consider!
This works in the context of looping too. Adding layers with different sound dynamics adds to the overall loop and if you duplicate tones in layers it can drown out or get muddy pretty quickly.
This is excellent. Love the harmonic series video - that was great. The 'cleaned-up' to 'heavy' comparison was a great demo. Love watching your channel. That PRS guitar is awesome on the eye and pleasing to the ear. The PRS amp definitely has that Marshall plexi treble/bass mix.
It is quite interesting to play along to the tracks you are learning, after practicing and trying to find the tone in isolation. I ALWAYS realize I have way too much gain dialed in. Whenever I have longer stints of playing alone, my gain usage goes up, but in times I get to play more live I always have to dial back the gain for it to sound correct. I just never seem to learn though😅
This is a good video on how to properly use distortion and overdrive. More of it makes your instrument less noticeable clear, which is sometimes exactly what you need.
Most of my overdrives are volume all the way up and gain barely on and it just stacks a little bit of color every time I hit on the next pedal and it’s awesome
