By the time of the War of the Ring, there is no more dragon. The last one is Smaug. Some of first time reactors thought that the Fellbeasts are dragons which are not.
I kinda like how the Hobbit movies are different from Lotr, since technically they are written by different perspectives. One by Bilbo, who returned a hero and without many injuries, and the other by Frodo who carried a heavier ring and having a morgul blades injury. Bilbo also was very much someone who seemed to like the fame later on in life, where he loved telling stories.
You said, about the singing of the Misty Mountains: "It adds to the specificity of the world and makes it much more believable and so much easier to get attached to these stories and characters." And that is so spot on! Considering Eru Ilúvatar was the supreme deity of Arda. the single creator of the entire world who created the world through music! All over Tolkien's lore there are songs, and poems. What a great comment! It is how you get close to them, and all of it!
Eru Iluvatar is the only one true God in Ea. Ea (universe) and Arda (planet) in which the continent of middle earth is located, were created thru the music of Ainur (archangels) in accordance of Erus plans. Tolkien was poet, so the Legendarium is full of songs, music and poetry.
Tom Bombadil is also an entity that constantly sings and even speaks in lyrical ways iirc. been a while since I last read the books, but I think I recall something along those lines.
Actually yes, Rivendell is protected by magic. Specifically the ring worn by Elrond. One of the three gifted to the race of Elves. Ironically Gandalf has one of the three as well, which is why he's fire proof. The third is worn by Galadriel, which is why Lothlorian is magically protected as well.
Narya is only confirmed to bolster the bearer's resistance to corrupting forces like tyranny, domination, and despair. The early revision of the line was "master of the White Flame" this was later changed to Flame of Anor which is likely reference to the light of Laurelin (the gold tree of Valinor which bears fiery fruit). It is more likely when Gandalf says this it is more a metaphor for the side he fights for, that or this is part of an incantation for the spell he uses to break the bridge. But yes, Elrond and Galadriel use their rings to protect their people from the gaze of dark forces and make it difficult for them to easily enter, which works on all except Sauron since while the elf rings don't have the same sort of corrupting tether the other rings have, they are still partially linked to him. This is why Elrond says the ring cannot stay in Rivendell because Sauron is the one thing he cannot shield his people from and through the faint link that exists in his ring Sauron would be able to know that the ring is in Rivendell and attack it at his earliest convenience (also by Elrond's own account Rivendell is a place of peace and learning, not a fortress of battle and with so many of the elves already departing to get ready for the voyage to Valinor he does not have the forces to repel a concentrated attack; I mean the force he sends to Theoden is essentially all the elven fighters that remain that have not already left for the Grey Havens so that is what he was working with).
@@chrisboot2468 ?? I know that. That is why I say I DON’T remember it. I think your comment is in better use addressed towards the person I previously replied to.
@@CChissel correct as far as the books are concerned, however this is an adaption and they chose to involve the elves which does make logical sense in-world. Keep in mind the films follow closely but have their creative liberties. Gandalf, for instance, is the one that advised Theoden to take his people to Helms Deep in the books but he was opposed to the idea in the film. Went and looked at it again and these elves are not even directly from Elrond, Celebron and Galadriel at Elrond's request sent 500 elves which was all they could spare. Presumably Elrond doesn't even have that many soldiers left in Rivendel (which makes sense since most of his people have already left for the Grey Havens). He says he brings word from Elrond, but the banners are Galadriel's (or at least they are certainly not Elrond's) and the elf at the lead is from Lothlorian as seen in the Fellowship of the Ring.
One thing that many don't catch. At the beginning, when the Elf King looks into the dwarves' chest of white jewels, lying on top is the necklace that the Elf King gave his wife before she was taken and killed by orcs. The Dwarf King refused to return it to the Elf King, leading to the conflict between the Elves and Dwarves...
The conflict between Elves and Dwarves went back much further, to the days of the Last Alliance, and was based on a misunderstanding by both parties. The dwarves were called upon by the elves to join the alliance against Sauron, but received no response in return, so the elves came to resent the dwarves for their perceived selfishness when the fate of Middle-earth was at stake. What they didn't know was that the dwarven kingdoms were already heavily besieged by Sauron's orcs, so they never received the messages. The dwarves, in turn, thought themselves abandoned to deal with the orc hordes by themselves by the men and elves. The latter was especially hurtful as the dwarves had considered the elves to be close friends at the point, as shown by the hidden doors of Moria. From then on the dwarves considered the elves to be pretentious and unreliable at best, and backstabbers at the worst. At the time of the Hobbit Thranduil was an outlier among his people as he still had a begrudging respect for the King under the Mountain, but they were hardly on friendly terms even before Thrain decided to keep the necklace for himself.
Oh, the conflict between Elves and Dwarves goes _way_ beyond that, all the way to the First Age. To make long, _long_ story short, back in First Age, Thingol, the Elvenking of Doriath in Beleriand, wanted Dwarves of Nogrod to set one of Silmarils(imagine three Arkenstones, but _way_ more beautiful) into necklace. After finishing the job, the Dwarves became greedy and demanded the necklace for themselves. Thingol refused, and in anger Dwarfes attempted to slew him, which resulted King's guard killing most of the Dwarves, only two escaping. This resulted Dwarves of Nogrod attacking Doriath, death of Thingol and beginning of animosity between Elves and Dwarfes.
I think Gandalf does trust Elrond, but he respects the fact that Thorin doesn't, and tries to avoid giving away Thorin's secret to someone Thorin doesn't trust. It has nothing to do with what Gandalf himself thinks of Elrond.
Bilbo changed his mind because he mother was Belladonna Took, a family of adventurous Hobbits, Pippin in LOTR was a Took and Merry was a Brandybuck, an extended family with many Tooks in their tree also. They werebith friends of and cousins to Frodo & Bilbo.
The Took family line (Bilbo's mother is a Took) are considered a little cracked by other hobbits. Tooks are cursed with curiosity and, in their early years, wounder lust. Bilbo started suppressing his Took side sense adulthood. Well, now his Tookish side is having its day. Also in the LotR: FotR when he pranked party his gusts, that was his Took side having fun.
I don't know if it was in the screenwriter's mind, but the Hobbit woman with the sort of disgusted look as Bilbo runs off might be counted as the Hobbits not being altogether surprised. Bilbo's ancestry is essentially the Took clan, and they were known for occasional members going off on adventures, a very foreign thing to most Hobbits. She would have known Bilbo as a Took and may been been thinking, "There goes another of those crazy Tooks, off to the wilds."
I just love how, even though Bilbo "hasn't aged a day" by the time of LOTR, in the portrait he takes out of the book at the beginning of the Hobbit, he looks like Martin Freeman.
Gandalf wasn’t comparing bilbo to 60 years prior. Gandalf had seen bilbo between the time of the hobbit and lotr, which is how Frodo knew Gandalf already.
@@angelaroberts3563 And there's literally a scene in the beginning of the movie showing Gandalf visiting the Bilbo in the Shire featuring a toddler Frodo lol
Facts about the Dwarves (no spoilers, these events are discovered in the Lord of the Rings). 1. Balin (the one with white hair) was inside the tomb that the Fellowship found in Moria 2. Ori was the skeleton holding the Book of Mazarbul that Gandalf read from in FotR 3. Óin was killed and likely eaten by the Watcher in the Water (the big sea monster outside the doors of Moria) 4. Bombur got so big during the events of LOTR, Gloin said he was so big, it took 6 people to lift him.
In the prologue, I always saw it that the Elves were actually there to attack the Mountain for the jewels that the Dwarves withheld from them, so when they saw what was happening they simply turned away.
"He's kinda HOT!" I love that you say this about Azog after you've seen Aragorn, Legolas, Éomer, Faramir Boromir, Celeborn, Haldir & Thranduil - and didn't say a thing. 🤣
The stone trolls known as Tom, Bert, and William, who turned to stone, are referenced in the beginning of The Lord of the Rings, when Bilbo throws a large birthday party and invites Gandalf and all of the hobbits in the Shire. Bilbo tells a story at one point to a group of children about the trolls who were about to eat him and the Dwarves until their demise. Later in the Extended Edition of the film, when Frodo has been stabbed with the Morgul-blade and is laid down in the woods before Sam searches for Athelas, the same trolls Bilbo and the Dwarves had encountered in The Hobbit are in the background.
Gandalf doesn't know it's the One Ring but he thinks one of the *several* magic rings made. It's not just The One and the 19 other "Great Rings of Power", the elves and probably dwarves have forged many magic rings as they studied Ring-craft.
There were also numerous "lesser rings" created by Celebrimbor and the Elves of Eregion beyond the 19. As Tolkien says, they were "mere essays in the craft" of ring-making.
One thing I love is that Bilbo tells the hobbit kids a tale about the trolls that turned to stone (in the extented edition of lotr) and it's exactly what he experienced here. Idk..it always makes me happy when I watch this scene
16:27 In the behind the scenes documentaries the design team behind Azog told that he was suppose to be a 1st generation orc, or something along that line. And therefore he still kinda has some elvish features.
I did not know that. And it would explain quite a bit. (Thor and Domi - the "first generation orcs" were the first elves corrupted (ruined) by Morgoth into orcs. Which was a long time ago. Geologically significant time has passed).
"in a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit" literally instant tears the moment I hear that line, the first line that Tolkien wrote about hobbits, the one that started it all.
Fun fact: These very same stone trolls 22:52 is the place they bring Frodo to after he was stabbed at wethertop by the morgul blade, they lay him down on one of their legs/foot i believe.
So one interpretation of why Thranduil was at the gates of Erebor with an armed host when Smaug attacked is that Thranduil had intended to attack Erebor & claim back what he felt the dwarves had stolen. If that is the case, walking away could actually be seen as mercy.
No. The elves actually came to aid the Dwarves, but when Thranduil realized that the dragon is already inside the mountain he didn't want to risk the lives of his fellow elves and so turned away. The elves would have all been slaughtered by the dragon.
The Entwives were already gone by this point. Sauron burned their gardens in the Second Age and killed most if not all of them, the Hobbit takes place in the Third Age.
It's not exactly a comedy but the book was always more lighthearted than "The Lord of the Rings" since it was originally written for children. I read it when I was 12, after seeing the Rankin-Bass animated film. As much crap as this film gets from "fans," I think it keeps to the spirit of the book fairly well. Even things that were added, like Radagast's scenes, are not out of character with the nature of the book. The other two films though....not so much.
@@iremainteague5653 Oh, I have, at least with "Desolation of Smaug." It's got some stuff I really don't care for but a lot of it is absolutely wonderful.
Funny to see them make such a big deal about the Arkenstone (which is only a gem) when Bilbo had the most powerful/valuable object in his pocket the entire time. If Thorin knew, he'd kill Bilbo and take it.
28:42 not perfect exactly, but Elrond IS able to manipulate the weather using Vilya. He does regulate it to some degree. He also uses his inherent power, boosted by Vilya, to hide and protect the valley. The dwarves would not have been able to find Rivendell without Gandalf, and the hobbits could not have found it without Aragorn. Fortunately, if you really absolutely need to get to Rivendell, Elrond will actually know that and send someone for you because he has foresight. It actually wasn’t an accident that Aragorn was in Bree, Elrond sent him there specifically to bring the Ringbearer to Rivendell.
I'm a passionate lifelong Tolkien reader who loved the LOTR movies (extended, of course), but I also totally love the Hobbit movies. There is so much beautiful writing, imagery, character growth, and worldbuilding, and for me it adds a ton of real texture and richness to the book (and to be honest, adds personalities for ALL the dwarves that are not really there in the book, not to knock Tolkien). I'm so glad you're watching with open minds -- I'm so used to people mocking my love for these movies.
The hobbit is a fun relatively small scale quest with interesting characters, but it suffers from unnecessary bloat and heavy reliance on CGI. The Lord of the Rings is on a nearly untouchable pedestal due to its real world structures, models, practical effects, and dedication from the entire cast and crew. Also most people were pretty young when it was released so there's also the nostalgia factor, and we tend to criticize film more harshly as we age.
not to also forget that the Hobbit was written as a children's book by Tolkien who was telling them bedtime stories to his kids, while LotR was written afterwards when said kids were adults and at the time serving in WW2 (and Tolkien drew a lot of inspiration about grimness of war from his own service in war of the Trenches during WW1)
That joke with playing some other music over the shots were overstaying its welcome. I kept saying "Come on, cut it out already!" several times cuz I thought it went too far.
Another cool fact the reason the elven realms are so perfect and beautiful is because the elves use there rings that they still have to power there kingdoms but if Sauron gets the ring there realms will be corrupted which is why there fleeing
The three trolls appear in The Fellowship of the Ring, still as statues, many decades later. The part they're in is the part where Arwen finds Aragorn and the hobbits after Frodo gets stabbed on Weathertop.
Thor was doing my head in by the end of this, it's the fact at the beginning of the Lotr reactions he was like 'I'm not gonna say anything so you can judge it for yourself' and by now hes explaining what's happening in the scenes before the scenes are even explained to you themselves. Simp energy
The headbutt greeting between Dwalin and Balin was from The Lord of the RIngs shoot where Viggo Mortensen and the stunt team used to headbutt each other as a friendly thing, as weird as it sounds. On Viggo's last day of shooting on pick-ups in 2003 he headbutted the whole stunt team.
Do you remember at the beginning of " The Fellowship of The Ring" scene where Gandalf and Frodo are chatting as the go into the shire? When Gandalf says about the incident with the dragon, " I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door ". 😏
The "woman trees" (AKA the Entwives) could NOT exist in this "prequel" because the prequel only takes place about a generation or two before The Lord of the Rings. The Entwives disappeared CENTURIES ago.
Just wanted to say I finished your LOTR collaboration w Thor and really enjoyed the little addition of editing having short 'Poker face' and montages like ' She's got the look' 👍
Because you always said Bilbo looks so unhappy: he was. In the book, Tolkien made it a point to often write: “at that point, Bilbo wished nothing more than to sit before the fireplace in his armchair and eat a nice meal. It wouldn’t be the last time he wished that” or smth like that. I really liked your reaction, and yes, bilbo is a whole mood. :)
The white gems that was shown to the Elven King Thranduil plays a key moment in the other two movies. Also what Gandalf put on Bilbo's door was an dwarven rune mark.
The song The Man in the Moon song is actually from The Fellowship of the Ring book, where Frodo sings it in order to distract the pub people from hearing Pippin nearly telling the story of Bilbo's Speech at the party, though it does lead to him accidently put the Ring on. It is mentioned in the book that Bilbo had made the song, though Bofur sings it here. Writer Philipa Boyens say that either Bofur came up to the song and taught it to Bilbo or vice versa. Me, I go for the latter to make it more faithful to the books.
"What made him change his mind?" Bilbo was a Baggins on his father's side, but a Took on his mother's side, and the Tooks had a habit of going on adventures - - several of Bilbo's relatives on the Took side went on adventures/disappeared. Several of them are mentioned in the geneologies in the appendices to *The Return of the King.*
I believe it's quenya that radagast is speaking. It was the language of the valar I believe, as well as the elves but after a while they changed to a different language. I think only the high elves like galadriel speak it now.
My favorite thing about the Hobbit in general is that the finding of the Ring is kinda like a side quest, you could write it out and still keep the story mostly intact. The worst part about the Hobbit is everything that they add doesn't add to the story or Tolkien feel of the movie, just feels like it gets in the way of things they ommit...there is one scene from Tolkien's appendices they added to the movie that I do enjoy. In LOTR the added scenes ad to the story, like the Elves at Helm's Deep. I do enjoy it, just pains me what we could have had without the cartoony over the top parts FYI Entwives are long gone even now. We'll never know what happened to them as Tolkien refused to answer any questions about them. He preferred the mystery.
From what I've heard isn't the original book, which I admittedly never read and wouldn't know, far more "cartoony" than "epic" though ? But regardless I feel like one of the major issue with this trilogy is that they wanted to make 3 movies out of a 300 pages book ('cause $$) whereas any one book from LotR already exceeds that, so they end up really stretching things out and adding a ton of stuff. I don't think that's bad in and of itself, but that new stuff has to exist for good reasons and in my book artificially stretching things out isn't one of them. To add to that they clearly wanted to recreate the 'epic journey' feel the LotR movies and books had, but the story of The Hobbit is far more lighthearted and as such much harder to fit with an epic narrative. Because of those factors together they end up in a spot with weird rythm throughout the movie and seemingly can't decide whether they wanna go the epic way or the lighthearted way. IMO that's especially true of the first movie, not so much for the other 2 as they clearly chose the former, but that creates its own problems. Might seem like I'm bashing and didn't enjoy the movies, I did, just saying they've got their issues just like any other and that, to me, these are much more glaring than the (IMO very few) ones the LotR trilogy has, even taken individually.
@@dreiz5403 I wouldn't say the book was cartoony, more lighthearted at parts and easier to read, but not cartoony. Everything that was cartoony in the movie was either added in, or could have been portrayed in a way that wasn't cartoony. I would say that the amount they had to shift the tone to make the movie that cartoony is more than the amount they would have had to shift it in the other direction to match LOTR movies. You're right about them padding the time, adding character and conflicts that weren't there. They're not BAD movies, I would say average if you don't know or love the book.
The stuff they added might not be in the hobbit, but that was the first thing Tolkien ever published. His world evolved over his life, and all the stuff (95%) they added to this movie is canonical and found in works like peoples of middle earth, Lotr appendices, and Silmarillion appendices
Azog is said to be a Gundabad orc (in the book, he's refered as Goblin but in the books goblin is an alternative term for orc, rather being a certain breed). Gundabad (which we see a little bit in Battle of Five Armies) used to be a dwarf stronghold where Durin I, one of the first dwarves woke up at early in Middle Earth's history (even before the First Age as this was before Sun and Moon was created, two different light sources for the world, first two light posts called The Lamps and then The Two Trees, both destroyed by Morgoth/Melkor, Sauron's master, the latter with help of Ungoliant, Shelob's mother) and therefore being sacred to the dwarves but since being taken over by orcs. In Tolkien's lore, Azog was actually killed at The Battle of Azanulbizar, by Daín Ironfoot (being a boy by dwarves age standard), then his son Bolg (who's a second in command in the movies) took over.
Been waiting for you guys to get to The Hobbit. Regardless of what others think, I love these movies just as much as the LOTR trilogy. Granted, Lord of the Rings might get a slight bump due to sentiment and, as Thor said, the sheer epic film making ability on display, but still. These movies are just as fun and interesting in their own way. I'm so excited! Cheers!!!
@@leannefresquez3490 Couldn't phrase it better. The Hobbit movies are really good in my opinion. Their only problem is that the LotR trilogy is one of, if not the best movie trilogy in history. It's tough to follow that.
There are 2 dwarves here who are a little more prominent than the others. Balin, the white-haired dwarf was actually in LOTR. He was the dead dwarf Gimli was crying over in Moria. Also, Gloin, the ginger dwarf who isn’t fat is Gimli’s father
She asks why did Bilbo leave? What did he see? He saw his house. Last night there was feasting and song and friends, his house was full of life. This morning it's empty. Life makes a house a home; a family to grow and Hobbits love things that grow. But the party is over and just a house is left. A bachelor with a house and no life in it. It left this morning to go on an adventure and he could have gone along if he had only signed the contract.
The difference with Rivendell in The Hobbit compaired to Rings, is in the former it is summer there because the elves were in the height of their power, while in the latter, the tims of the elves were starting to run out and they starting to leave Middle Earth, so it it autumn/fall there.
The language Radagast was speaking that you were wondering about is Quenya, an outdated form of Elvish mostly used for spells. Kind of like Latin. Sindarin is the language Elves commonly used.
According to the lore, the nazgul at Dol Goldur was actually Khamul - the same one who the Hobbits first encountered in the shire in Lord of the Rings. He was the second in charge, after the Witch King. As for the bats, they're likely vampire bats; A reference to when sauron was able to shape shift in previous ages. One of the forms he took early in the second age was as a vampire.
I am glad, that you mentioned Asterix and Obelix. What a fun films. They can be great thing to react to. Especially Mission Cleopatra (same director as Rrrrr)
I looooove asterix and obelix! My favourite of the live actions was contra cesar, but I like mission cleopatra a lot too! But the cartoons and especially the comics always will be the most lovely!
In Tolkien's books there are no references of the elves been vegans or vegetarians (though Beorn is, as it is mentioned he mostly lives on cream and honey, he doesn't slaughter his animals nor does he go hunting, but surely must drink milk and eat vegetables and berries). In fact, it's mentioned in The Hobbit book that the elves of Mirkwood went for hunting so they must eat meat there. I bet Jackson and co were inspired The Inheritance Cycle where the elves there are strictly vegan as they have feelings for the animals.
The thing about Radaghast, Gandalf and Saruman, is that they are all Maiar in the guise of old men(which limits them in what they can do). Maiar, are in essence the lowest of the Divine beings in Tolkien Mythology, they mostly the servent of the Higher Gods, such as the AInur(there are 14, Melkor is one, whom Sauron is a servant to).
The Blue Wizards are called Alatar and Pallando in earlier story materials but was later renamed Mornethar and Rómestámo. Their primary mission was to go to the South and East of Middle Earth to influence the Harad and Rhûn, not to get on Sauron's side, which they partly succeed in. No one knows what happened to them but they never returned to Vallinor. The reason Gandalf says he doesn't remember their names is because The Blue Wizards' names wasn't mentioned in The Lord of the Rings appendixes but in other Tolkien books and Warner Bros. through New Line Cinema only had the rights to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit so they couldn't use the names and The Tolkien Estate (particularly when Christopher Tolkien, the son of John Ronald Ruel, was still alive) are/were very protective of Tolkien's written word (the rights for The Hobbit were sold to United Artists, the daughter company of Metro Goldwyn Mayer, which commissioned Rankin-Bass to do animated features on The Hobbit and The Return of the King, while Saul Zaentz got the rights for LOTR, and through Ralph Bakshi, they made the animated The Lord of the Rings part 1, consisted of Fellowship and about the half of The Two Towers, in the 70's, so the Tolkien Estate had no saying in this case), plus Warner Bros didn't want to pay several thousands of dollars in royalty for just mentioning names.
FYI: The Hobbit was almost canned, based on the amount of work required, since Guillermo Del Toro was the original Director unfortunately leaving after one and a half years of pre production. So when Peter Jackson stepped in, all of it had to be redone from scratch and the Studios would not give in to any extensions. This is the reason why so much CGI was done, because it took way less time to create, instead of a real life prosthetic look and makeup.
A fun bit of trivia about the Moon Letters: When Tolkien first published "The Hobbit", he wanted to have a special cover that would be an illustration of the map from the story, with the "moon letters" being visible if one held the paper up with light shining behind it. Sadly, as the book was published during the Great Depression, it wasn't possible for the publishers to fulfill this dream.
Well they actually gave them pure veg just to mock them. Even the musicians are poking fun in their own way. After all, Elves and Dwarves aren't on friendly terms. They do eat meat.
If you watch The Hobbit and follow up with TLOTR, it's going to hype like "Oh, that's three tolls". if you watch TLOTR first, you'll be like, "Oh, these three Tolls have their origins like this."
In the first LOTR at the very beginning Bilbo was telling a story during his party about 3 trolls contemplating about how to eat him and they all turned to stone. That story was in this movie. With the ponys
Azog the defiler is a Gundabad orc. Bolg is his offspring, BTW. In the book, they arrived in Rivendell well before the moon runes could be seen and had to wait for the right day. Peter Jackson prefers the serendipitous approach to storytelling. They JUST show up at the right time.
I wish more people would react to the Spartacus series. It's so underrated and it was so good. I agree with you about the actor who played Crixus. And I like both actors that played Spartacus. Rip Andy Whitfield. I also loved the character of Gannicus.
This book didn’t have to be split into three movies. Originally Guillermo Del Toro was going to direct this in two movies. WB wanted three so he left the project and Peter Jackson directed it instead to WB requirements. The Dwarves needed Bilbo because of two reasons. One is that there are 13 dwarves which is a unlucky number. 14 makes it lucky. The second is because they needed a burglar to sneak in, get the Arkenstone and get past the Dragon. Gandalf choose Bilbo because his mother is a Took, Pippin’s kin. She liked adventures. His father likes the quiet life. This movie doesn’t tell us why the Eagles are so loyal to Gandalf. He saved the Eagle leader from an Arrow. So they are in his debt.
If it hasn't been answered before, Azog is specifically an orc from Mount Gundabad in the far north of the Misty Mountains, that're said to be more militant and stronger than the average Orc. Specifically, Mount Gundabad is a holy site for the Dwarves, as it's said that's where the first of their race awoke, so the Orcs and Dwarves have been fighting over it for literally thousands of years. As an aside, the Entwives vanished during the Second Era, during Sauron's first rise to power and eventual defeat by the Last Alliance. So no luck in seeing them.
