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ISTP here, this tends to happen a lot at work and it sucks. Instead of rewarding people on their efforts or results, some bosses tend to just give reward to the kiss ass. Which isn't 'FAIR' to the lead Fi and is 'DISRESPECTFUL' to the lead Ti.
Check out Kent Beck’s video Outcome over Output to see a great model of how to master this game TL;DR - delivering the best output is worse than worthless if you don’t follow through to connect it to your target audience. Focus on the impact of the eventual outcome instead of your own personal output
@@subtleGradient can summarize that in one quote for ya. "Expertise has no value to an audience who doesn't understand." part of the rules for myself i've developed for 17 years ;p
@@InternetLiJo And all of us fake IxxP ExxJs also. I've lived my life playing the ISTP game 80% of the time by isolating myself away from people. oops, haha
At the same time though, when the IxxP has an overly negative self image, confronting the tribe is like a magical healing or the self, when you get to hear you aren't as bad as you thought. That's why I believe it's so helpful for someone who is depressed to come out with how they think of themselves to people around them, it may take some time, but the sense of value will adjust. And hell, why not always be checking so u don't go the other way either! But it's not really fun to have your sense of specialness humbled
I feel the opposite can be true, at least for me as an INFP. Example, I felt invisible and underestimated my impact or importance within the tribe at my last workplace. I did not realise others expected more guidance and leadership from me as I was technically more senior and had the longest tenure 😅 yet in my head i didn't realise where I sat and felt invisible and didn't care as long as I did my job
I'm an INTP and when Dave said... after all these months of movie-making, you still don't know where you stand in the Tribe?? Just massively hit home for me. It feels like a defence mechanism because I have traumatising times in my head (like Kevin Bacon) where my Fe was way off, so I can't trust the good signals it gives me, and always keep the bad version in mind. Imagine all the cool kids looking at you in school and saying: "Oh, you silly boy, you think we really liked you??" It's that kind of feeling you don't feel equipped to foresee. Another interesting thing is that Tribe for me... doesn't include me, it is everyone around me and therefore easy to feel removed. I wonder if that's the perception of lead Fe's... or does Tribe to them imply their inclusion at it's centre? For me it's more a fight to be included into the Tribe for what it stands for, rather than being me and moulding a Tribe around me which means you're inherently unsure of yourself and your standing. What if it morphs / moves ... what then? Are you still where you were? ... just thinking out loud
When you pay so much attention to the bad moments, it causes fear within yourself. It distorts your perceptions of the world. You're not the only one that misspercieves things, we all do sometimes. But if we let it define us then the rest of our existance won't go so well. You have to let go of the fear. Fe may be your inferior but it's still in your stack. You have to trust it as you trust your other 3. Your missperceptions are probably due to a fear of failure. You can't be scared to be wrong.
pretty much just nailed IxxP's on the head. as a fellow INTP, i also really just envy people who can bounce with the tribe and effortlessly just navigate through the waves (maybe even change the current if they want to). if i do that, it has to be a conscious effort and im usually pretty proud of myself afterwards lol. it's not a very natural process. except for banter though, i am getting better at it because of my sharp-tongued friends. :)))
yea i relate. also has the added problem of annoying people that do like me, bc i don't know that they do. i can talk to someone everyday for months and be like.. do they like me? or are they just being polite? and then not knowing people are upset with me. that has happened as well. i will say tho, having seen how much ExxJs obsess over what others think, i prefer it my way. not thinking about it until it's a problem. it seems to me like such a waste of time, that obsession. i would rather do literally anything else. (also intp)
I'm an INTP as well, and reading your comment reminded me of a shitty Fe experience I had. In 3rd grade I had a Spongebob lunchbox, which was designed such that Spongebob's rectangular body was the actual lunchbox, and his arms and legs dangled off the sides. A kid came over at recess and excitedly said he really liked my lunchbox, and asked to see it. So I gleefully handed it over, happy to share something I liked with someone else. He ripped the arms and legs off, and chucked it as far as he could. That shit eviscerated my ability to trust new people for a LOOOOONG time.
I must admit that as an INFP, I was a little hesitant to click on this video because I know it is true. But I love the fact you have made a video about this and you are helping other personality types understand us a little better. There have been times when I have seemed like an asshole for getting angry when I should have been a little more grateful. From my perspective, I think that this is because I try to view all each person equally as a complex individual instead of going the easy route of viewing them as part of the collective tribe. It is what helps me respect everyone and remain aware of everyone's importance. Thus, I only take social hierarchies seriously when they serve a legitimate, necessary, and truly utilitarian purpose, and when a high social status has been truly earned. Social hierarchies are silly and stupid when they are not necessary and exist only to make some undeserving people look good by humbling others.
Your take on IXXPs is definitely very interesting. Haha, as an INFP who has simultaneously crushingly low self-esteem and yet is also arrogant (?) -- I have to say that, yup, being an IXXP is quite the trip haha. It's very interesting that you mention that IXXPs tend to be proud and selfish. When I look at my family members (two other INFPs in the family), I can definitely see it... externally haha. They are proud in that they don't trust group opinion and always say something along the lines of, "You have to think for yourself. I only trust my own mind and my own conclusions." They are also very selfish, in that they tend to think of themselves first and foremost and not necessarily of how it will affect others. IRONIC then! Since I am INFP just like them, do the same things, and am in the same family, to boot. And yet it is so much harder to see your own blind spots. Growing up with an ESTJ mother, I used to think that my mother was the proud one, in that... my perception of dominant Te was that it was a sign of pride that you would think that you know best, that you know what is best for the group, what's good for other people, and that you would then do that or push that outcome on someone else. For someone with dominant Fi, I felt that that was arrogant, to assume that you knew what was good for others. And that you should just let them decide for themselves and do those things for themselves. But, my dom Te mother is also incredibly selfless. She gets very frustrated and angry at times b/c she feels like she's doing so many things for other people, that are unappreciated or being taken advantage of. When I was younger, I would definitely get bewildered when she would, in my eyes, just suddenly get mad. I would think, "Why do all this stuff for other people when they don't even ask for it or want it? And then get mad when you feel unappreciated? Just don't do it, then!" But given that she's in a family with 3 INFPs, I would say that that her conclusion (that she was being undervalued and underappreciated) was probably pretty much true. And you know, the world wouldn't go around with our dom Tribe parents/friends/etc. to actually look out for and care for others.
Absolutely. Well-said. I'm an IP with an EJ parent and during times I feel my autonomy getting invaded, I also think about all the caring for that they do beyond themselves and how much work it is to take on that much responsibility on the regular.
yea its so weird i never heard of more than 2 people with the same type being siblings i have 5 siblings and non of them is the same type as me or each other but his discription of his sibling seems like an INTP
Fe married to an ISFP here and we constantly have tensions in situations like this and I never got what the big deal was. Thanks for putting a finger on it!
The reverse can also happen. IPs tend to be self critical when others value you more than you do. This is really interesting information I hadn't considered before. Your right, I tend not to even think about how 'the tribe' views me at all.
I often participate in a group setting, where I may or may not be participating verbally, but definitely listening most of the time. And forming a solid internal structure on things. When some decision is to be made, and people are asked to voice their stand, often the group doesn’t recognize my authority, and that pisses me off. That actually makes me wonder if I should even invest in the group. ~ ISTP
If I am an infp, which seems right, I think this is a good window into how I've ended up socially isolating myself over the last 10 years so heavily; the fear of being egotistical and then snapped back to humility by the tribe, so the self-limiting is like trying to humble myself beforehand to avoid getting caught out, as those occasional events were so painful. But this suggests to me that I could ease up on that if I were to EXPECT to be snapped back to humility occasionally, realizing it's the Fi experience and not such a big deal. Thanks y'all!
Yes, that's a solution IxxPs result to at times, but eventually you'll lack in social interaction, and could be considered as proud or unapproachable because you don't interact with the tribe well enough
@@silentseeker3579 I'll try, it's hard lol. A recent example is I started in April running a Dnd game on zoom with my wife, best man, and his GF. For months, after every session, my weak tribe-interpreting skills have told me that my game wasn't fun for my players. Thankfully, my wife has Fe and helps interpret. I've realized that the only signals of tribe-validation which would have told me 'they had fun' were wildly unrealistic expectations, like them fawning over my game etc. I would normally have stopped arranging games out of fear of a day when my best friend might say: 'i never liked your game, or you.' now, this guy has known me and stuck with me for 20 years. Hope this makes some sense, I'm aware it's more a ramble than explaining, pretty sure Dave and Shan have made some videos about demon Te and explaining haha.
@@dolapootunla7735 yup, I can attest to this from my life experience and challenges, although (subjective interpretations incoming...), the feedback I do get, after talking it through with my support system, seems not to be about pride and approachability, but rather that most people do not have any indication that I wish to connect, am interested in community, working with them, etc. I think they assume I'm a nice, unassuming guy, but they notice (especially bosses) that while I'm kind and conscientious, I am not particularly committed or invested. So, they like me, but I'm not who they think of when they want something done, or someone to connect with. Sucks, but this channel (and years of therapy and learning) are giving me a window to change that behavior and be in the world again and there for others, gradually.
@@dianadias3 sort of, though if I say it to myself that way it tends toward a loop. I think it speaks to a self-concept that is particularly vulnerable, plus an all-or-nothing skill-set for interpreting tribe feedback. I don't disagree with you, by the way. I think humility is a skill, rather than a trait, supported by a person's wellness. I've found that the fear of being perceived as not humble is a driver in social anxiety. The pendulum swings the other way, making me assess my value far too low, so I hide, forcing those around me to have to focus on me anyway (self-fulfilling prophecy here). Maybe humility is partly defined as a willingness to be torn down by the tribe, aware their criticism could be right, and a willingness to have their concept of me not match mine, but then still showing up and doing our best anyway. But that's something I think takes time, working through anxiety, and building more sustainable confidence-sources.
I can't figure out why I love these videos so much. It's down to Savior Ti, Jung obsessed, sense maker VS. the joy my soul feels watching/hearing your laughter and banter. Looks like I have to stay tuned and gather more evidence to solve this mystery. Oh Darn.
Well I have a very low opinion of myself, so I’m surprised when I’m ever given “vip seats”. I’m like this dude that I don’t know people’s opinions of me, except instead of thinking I’m awesome I think I suck.
As an INTP, I do semi relate to this. I think this is because I’ve experienced environments throughout my life where I was loved, respected, and “popular”, and ones where I was a new nobody (example: popular in homeschooled circles, no name on public and private school sports teams). I’ve seen the spectrum, and learned some sense of humbleness, which assumes others are at or above my “level” unless somehow “proven” otherwise. Remember, assumptions and expectations can be 2 terribly destructive tools when misused.
Going through the IP videos in succession and watching them spell out my life, I can’t believe how I could ever even consider the possibility of being an IJ instead. Mistaking my place in the tribe is so humiliating and so cringey. Thinking about it, my flashbacks of shame are usually always related to the tribe.
Lol. Yep. You got us. We aren't as aware of societal standards, structures or just general knowledge associated with societal coexistence. We assume a little too much what is generally the case. And when it seems that we missed the mark, its the most embarrassing thing-for me though. Thats why its good at times to ask questions, so you don't make detrimental mistakes.
I still have that problem of not asking questions, just so I don't come across like an idiot. It backfires every time without fail. The best way to downward spiral? be so burnt out that you cant stand asking for help anymore, it will end well I promise.
I can understand this because even though something has passed with a person you want to think about it over and over again, especially if you thought you was cool with them and or with a group and you end up being betrayed/the laughing stock of that group even though you have so many more redeeming qualities/experience than they do. For me all that processing ends up in intense anger and cutting off and withdrawal from the group. I’ll be content finding a whole new group and the cycle will begin again.
Yeah how depressing is this cycle? It leads me to assume that I'm always the worst - then I can never be disappointed. The second I start to gain confidence again I get so anxious that I'm just going to fall flat on my face. It's so hard to process the tribe
The feeling of being disrespected is probably what sets me off the most. Mostly in relatively unimportant situations, actually. Like online discussions with some rando ("Cheeto97") about a video game or something. Withdrawing and doing something else to work off the anger helps. In real life I'm usually cautious enough to avoid this...or so I like to think, anyway.
I'm an INTP. And I feel like why the fuck should I care what the tribe thinks about me. I'm just doing me enjoying my life. I'm not here to impress anybody. Why would I live up to their norms or values? If they don't like me being me I need to find a new tribe.
My lead Fi was an high and strong tower until i went to a therapist when I was 19. She showed me that for me, I was better that anyone else and and yet I didn’t do anything to “deserve” what I unconsciusly thought I deserved. This was so hard to understand and when i look back to how strong was this mindset I think “OF COURSE no one understood me, I was not paying attention to OTHER’s reasons and how meritocracy works for me AND OTHERS!” Anyway the more I learn about personalities, the more I understand me and other people point of views. Thank you for posting ❤️
One thing that has helped me as an infp is Robert Greene's chapter 1 in the 48 laws of power-never outshine the master. It states that you actually don't want to impress people with your abilities or be better than your leaders. You want to stroke the ego of those above you. Then you'll be better liked, you won't be the best but you won't be kicked off the tribe either (IP fear) and you won't need to kick yourself off the tribe because you'll have a purpose. you want to praise them. By being great teachers and leaders they give you what you have. So kind of flipping it-being De. And then realising that being De (in perspective) can actually be a lot cooler than being the best. Being the funny side character who's kind of a loser but who has some good qualities can be cool. This is what I think double deciding is 😂 please someone tell me I'm close
My colleague (I think) she is Fe lead or second, and she always knows what everyone thinks of everyone like where they stand.. The hierarchy.. It is so interesting to me, because I couldn`t care less (I..P), but I am learning a lot from.her, and it can make.a major deal.in your carrer.. I am training my brain.to.think: "I need the tribe".. "the importance I give them.is the importance they are going to give me".. If I treat them highly, and play fun and ask their perspective and opinion, they will feel valued and therefore I will be in their mind with good moments which can translate into liking your work. It is really important for people in higher places to like you.. I observe Oe and they are amazing.. I try to learn, I pretend.. So I won`t get caught 😂😂😂
As a Ni/Te dom INTJ, my Ti/Ne dom INTP sister is completely incapable of seeing where her role fits in. She can't see how she comes off to others and find it hilarious when she throws these fits. Good to know this is what it is.
IxxPs not understanding how the tribe sees them, then getting surprised when they see that they are not valued by others like they thought they should be anything more specific you didn't totally understand?
@@Magani79 pretty much this lmao ^^^ just a total lack of outside perspective in terms of social value got hit by this one a fuck ton last year as an INTP,, and that's why i'm working hard to be perceptive and how to "show" the tribe my value (ie. performative competence, etc) the sorts of things ExxP's and IxxJ's do with no visible struggle.
@@seignee I'm an INTP. And I feel like why the fuck should I care what the tribe thinks about me. I'm just doing me enjoying my life. I'm not here to impress anybody.
@@Magani79 Interesting. I can see how this applies IxTPs but how would it apply to IxFPs? Wouldn't their Lead Feeling function make it easy for them to understand what other people feel about them?
@@ssg2991 Sure, there is a bit of a difference between lead Fi and Ti, the lead Fi will struggle most in in the Te realm of things (for example: what is a good, popular way to solve X problem) but still I don't think lead Fi are great at Fe in terms of knowing what others value and how others see them, because they are so focused on their own Di. Same goes for Ti on Fe, and Te
This guy was flown to Times Square to watch his own movie that he acted in. But the other actors all lived in California, not him. SO he was excluded from their posse and not given a ticket, which he says is unfair. Then Shan and Dave says, I cant believe youre saying this. Why are you assuming you have a place in the tribe? Lol. Like, stop making assumptions. No one is supposed to make an assumption like that. Shan says, I would even be so lucky as to be invited to my own premier. Dave says: You should figure out that you are disliked by the tribe already, and not to expect a ticket to your own premier. But I believe that the fact that you are in the movie should get you a vip ticket. Its not like he is the set-designer, he is an actor in the movie. The FE tribe shouldnt be the ones deciding on whether an actor gets to see his own movie since whether you acted in the movie or not should be the deciding factor. I guess if I worked a job for several years, then I shouldnt assume that I was invited to the annual BBQ, because maybe the FE tribe doesnt think Im cool enough? He's talking about FE. The tribal aspect of never knowing who is "in" or "cool"; and that he excepted that since he was an actor in the movie, that he would also get a VIP ticket. Apparently Hollywood doesnt try to be fair. FE is very incalculable. "Where you are in the tribe", aka, "coolness" should never be a factor in whether you get a ticket to see the movie that youre an actor in.
That sounds terrible, it would probably stick with me forever if that were to happen to me. I often try not to let my “expectations” get high in fear of this happening
Intp here: I have a gigantic list of (beefs for life) with either people, organizations, causes, etc. Usually all started with what I “perceived” as disrespect in some form or another. Everything is noted a ,shrug ,a ignore , a condescending comment, a joke at my expense. I will always remember even decades later 🤣.
I really think I'm a Ti/Ni, but I feel the opposite of this "I'm the best" thing? I feel that the tribe never accepts me and I've practically given up. I'm currently in a very difficult process of getting back into the whole "finding a job" thing and I'm surprised by how much fear it creates in me to subject myself to tribe evaluation again, and fully anticipating them to reject me over and over again. I thought I didn't care about tribe opinion, but this prospect is actually paralyzing me. Am I typing myself in reverse, being actually De-dominant somehow, or am I just a very damaged subcategory of Di-dominant?
I dunno. Can't totally agree. Sure we IXXPs have probably all been in such a situation, where we expected more. But I personally have also been in the other extreme. It's not necessarly that we're full of ourself, like your video makes it seem. It's more that we just don't pay as much attention to the outside world. Because of that we have issues placing ourself, which can go both ways. We have a hard time managing expectations. Both of ourself and of others. I hate being singled out by others in a positive sense to a lesser, but comparable degree than to in a negative sense. It just puts me in a stressful social situation.
I am an INTJ and I adore INFPs. I was married to one for 8 years and was with another INFP for another 8 years. You guys can definitely have misplaced arrogance and it's so frustrating at times. My first INFP was brilliant and she managed to get a handle on this flaw so she was careful not to act arrogant but the second INFP is so full of herself. She's 60 years old and should have learned by now but she still thinks she's smarter than everyone else, when she's actually quite wrong much of the time. And I know a 70 year old ISFP who's the same way.
@@hfortenberry That's exclusively Fi Heros. Doesn't mean this also applies to Ti Heros, and even so, while impressive on a personal level 3 persons still isn't a very big sample size to claim something for the whole group. All I can say that as a Ti Hero I am very much aware that noone is perfect and that different perspectives make for different opinions. Occasionally I'll still be off balance in some regards, but it's a very rare occurrence. And I'm in my 20s.
@@9SMTM6 Yeah, I'm really just speaking about INFPs and ISFPs. I have not known as many INTPs but the one I was close with was also arrogant. I really didn't care though because I was a little arrogant around her too, playfully, just to rile her up. We were always competing with each other in a fun way.
Oh god, yes i never know where i stand with people. Had this friend group where everyone always asked me for advice, which annoyed me after some time. I legit thought they viewed me as some kind of advice-bitch and that they dont value the other aspects of my personality. Took me ACTUAL MONTHS to realise that asking advice is actually a sign of respect
Hmm, are you guys trying to make him fit your perception of an IxxP? Don't get me wrong, I love this channel and the discussions y'all have, but this isn't the first IxxP interpretation you've done that's raised a brow. I mean, I don't understand how you can come to a conclusion about how he was reasoning through his position in the tribe, without him offering that reasoning up. Without him telling you, all you can do is assume what his reasoning was, which leaves room for speculation, and many equally likely explanations. It could have been so many different things that motivated him to reference that story in the way that he did. Like, the interviewer could have just asked him, "can you tell us about a humbling experience you had?" In his mind he goes "oh shit, uhh..." then says "Yeah so this one time on the other side of the red carpet..." and ends up coming off like he's ill informed, when really his fib is being taken as 'heartfelt.' And that's only one possible interpretation, and yours is another. I just don't think IxxP's are inherently as gaumless as you're describing.
I believe I am an ENFP Ne-Te PB/C(S) and I identify with not typically liking people with my middle two functions the most. I tend to not get along with Fi doms and Te Doms the most but more specifically ISFP and ESTJ I think due to the lack of intuition. I also don't really get along with ISTJs very often due to their rigid perceptions and lack of seeing things in the big picture.
As an IP with double activated Fe...I feel the tension between respect and fair so hard. Also...I’m “triggered” by lead intuition Shan. The struggle is real.
Shan is Te/Se, Dave is lead Ni. Also I don't think you can have double activated Fe if you're a lead Ti because of the Fe being the most inferior function.
Shan said I am more EJ than her...and she is more IP because we are both “glass lizards.” It’s helped me understand me defaults a lot better. It’s a fun system. Really useful.
@@wendybird7059 Can you elaborate? I really can't see that an INTP can be more ExxJ than an ENTJ and vice versa. I get that there is a spectrum within each type, but not that they go so far beyond as to a completely opposite type. That would then kind of defeat the whole purpose of typing that person in the first place. I know that Shan is an expert; but she is human after all.
thank you youtube algorithm, i find out i'm an ixxp and relentlessly get all the IxxP videos that (ironically, haven't seen this yet) are humbling the SHIT out of me. thank you
I agree that you need the balance moving back and forth, but the degree/range is more important. If each "wall"/extreme wrecks everything and everyone in the group/tribe/society, then something's not going right, and the whole system needs to change to better accommodate people not dying. E.g., If it's the balance between dictatorship and actual anarchy, that's not working. It's like the society-wide version of an unstable person swinging between suicidal depression and psychotic mania. Not trying to stigmatize, just saying it's unhealthy whether it's at the personal level or at the tribe level. Obviously if it's at the tribe level, it's a lot more devastating because everyone gets wrecked during the back-and-forth.
It's true. I was near the "top of my class" at CMU but missed a deadline and failed a class and got held back a semester. So ashamed I crashed and burned for a full six months. Very humbling.
Dave you should definitely read the Tao Te chang & the 7 laws of hermeticism, you would definitely see a correlation between what you’re talking about & the universal truths of dialectics. - ENFP
I didn't get it at first either, but I guess what they're saying is that IxxP's think they know their place in relation to the tribe, but then when they find out they were wrong the whole time, they get shocked. It's like their De is this huge blind spot and once they get a glimpse of what's actually going on they have trouble processing it.
may i sugest.... that .. if you have a yard large enough to accommodate a huge apple tree.... you're gonna have enough space for a big ole COMPOST heap/pile.... or even hole... if not for all of the excess apples - at least for the ones you can fit in the bin... (better in your yard than the garbage dump if pos)....
So would an IxxP with savior Play be less susceptible to this since they also have high tribe energy? I imagine a Sleep Consume would experience this much more severely, compared to a Consume Play for example. From what it looks like the Savior Play IxxP’s generally seem to have figured it out to some extent, at least compared to your typical IxxP.
Di = individualism, my own needs and will are what matters De = collective mentality, common goals, what is my role, my needs and wants come second Both have their good and bad points. But in general, our generation favors Di because humans become more and more self absorbed as we go (social media, looser ethics, now social distancing... Just to mention a few)
@Mr. 8-Bit Doggo Sounds interesting but can you clarify? Are you saying these will show me that we are in an SeFi? Ti? SiFe? culture? I would like to learn more about this. Thanks.
When i was little kid - we used to hang out alot with friends. Like rly alot, coming to eachothers birthdays as huge parties, playing outside together etc. etc. But then slowly but surely i was noticiing how they don't want to hang out with me anymore, how they getting jealous of my unique view to the world while simultaneously calling me "the crazy scientist". Everytime i was able to find some unique and cool way of solving problems or just having a refreshing look on a situation no one in the group ever thought before - every single time they were distancing from me more and more, groupin up on their own and builying me. They thought i was trying to prove their worthlessness or something idk, whil i was just enjoying the process of being unique and seeing stuff no one else could see. Is that demon Fe? Is that Fe-last? Or was i just being surrounded by stupid idiotic children that could not accept that someone else can see situations differently that the tribe? Why being unique automatically means being outsider? Even my parent always told me "you don't think like others. You are like an alien that doesn't know anything bout this planet. Why are you like this? Can't you just be normal?". And i hate being normal
I get the missing info thing. It’s soooo hard to process missing info related to self no matter what it is. Like when I get something major like this wrong (especially when I misunderstand my relationship with tribe) it’s really hard to take . But from the perspective of an infp with crippling self hate , I would not be “humbled” by getting a shit ticket. Omg but if they gave me vip ticket .. 😳🤮
INFP here. I think that's the point. We have no idea where we stand with the tribe. So usually, it could go two ways: "What, I get a shit ticket?" or "What, I get a vip ticket?" Basically the extremes.
now I understand what CS Joseph meant about Delta Quadra and blackmailing. And yes, feel triggered again xD INFP here. It is devastating, waking up from a dream within a dream. but to be honest, Ne saw it coming, too. In the end this can be rockbottom.
I have an INFP ex wife (together for 8 years) and a current INFP girlfriend and the ex-wife mastered her Ne well enough that she seemed to have no problems fitting in with the tribe. She came across as brilliant yet humble (which she is), and never arrogant. My current INFP gf (also of 8 years) is clueless by comparison. I attribute this to her seemingly mostly being stuck in her Fi-Si loop. INFPs out there, don't despair. If you want to deal with this issue, just learn to focus on developing your Ne.
ExxJ and my moment like that is discovering tribe values and its like ohhhhh fuck yep.. Shouldve known.. Feelings storm coming and ill be good in a few days. My reasoning is flawless but my data coming in is incomplete because I'm misinterpreting values until they're clearly stated.
ISTP here and I am on another one of those binges where you just watch a bunch of videos about a topic that piqued interest and I am not understanding this notion of Ti awesomeness. I'm understanding the fighting with tribe Bs I think. I tend to have issues getting out of my own head but I'm just not understanding this Ti lead awesomeness concept y'all have been talking about in your videos. Can some explain?
Was Kevin Bacon in the “premier “? Like a cast member of some sort or was he just Kevin Bacon being Entitled to be part of the tribe? The “well known” tribe at least??
I disagree…. It’s more like, I just want to know where I fit in the tribe so I can get on with things. What do they expect from me? Why don’t they make it clear? I’ve felt just as uncomfortable when I suddenly realised I’m seen as a leader as when I suddenly realised I’m not one of “the stars”.
I don't think it's that deep, they make fun of everyone lol including themselves. There are times when you'll have to take away from your Di to give to your De demon. It doesn't have to be anything major or extreme, just a sacrifice here and there.
@@Darren_S They seem to poke at whichever group they are discussing at the moment. I was more put off when I first joined, but see it all the time. Like, I'm shocked Shannon said she has a bigger problem with Se than Ne b/c they really pounce on Ne in their videos. I also saw in an interview that Shannon said she has the hardest time understanding the NTP/SFJ stacks. This is quite enlightening to me to see today!
They may be incredibly smart or appear self actualised but are like little children in a way. Maybe they make up most of the recent 'gratitude' thing and INXJs the 'mindfulness' thing LOL.
His most recent interview with Joe Rogan is pretty enlightening. I think he's got to be an INTJ or something, but maybe he's double introverted. Definitely heavy Ni and a lot of reliance on his Fi.
Being humbled (in other words, being told that you are not as special as you thought you are) can be a traumatising experience to an IxxP because for them, self image is the most important thing
Yes. IxxP’s more than anyone are default wired to want respect (in some way). Being humbled means they aren’t getting that level of respect and that impacts them.
@@InternetLiJo I thought demon Fi gave a similar tidal wave experience: Look, I did what you said (don't ask me to explain it because what's important is that I did it and now look at it and praise me); meaning, demon Fi: I followed your instructions and put my effort out into the world (lead Te) now praise me, not my product, but me. And--if you don't praise me, I will stub my toe hard and scream and then you can't ignore me. Is it the IxxP's who pitch such a hissy fit for attention, or is it also the demon Fi's??? This Jenga game of intangibles is fun to explore but keeps falling down.
I--Ps have an irrealistic self-image.. When it comes the time to get with the tribe, and that image breaks, their heart shatters.. It feels like for them.they are being undervalued, when in reality tribe sees them.by what they are.. But they have this high self - image that they don`t even have a clue that the tribe doesn`t think that.. When comes the time, the tribe lets the truth out, the I--P will feel hurt and not valued or respected. It will feel a sense of injustice, that they deserve more, they are better. Why am I talking like I--Ps are an.aninal.species?? XD. Imagine creating a lie in your head, and someone comes and tells you itvis not true.. Maybe that is why I--Ps hate the tribe so much.. 😂😂 the tribe just comes to put them.down.. (but in a realistic way)
INFPs do this. I can't say ANYTHING constructive to my INFP or she flies off the handle thinking I'm trying to control her and not respecting her. It's exhausting.
Interesting. Well, to be fair, your situations may be unique and therefore require a specifically nuanced type of sincere & committed approach. I'm an IxxP and lemme tell ya, there is nothing I value more than rawthentically respectful feedback. Same as every other IxxP I've ever met. Caveat: context. Either way, my question is respectfully intended to be a mirror for the high Te (& thus low ordered Fi) variety. 😊
@@rawthenticatedflavors9109 Yeah, our situation is unique in a way that makes things a bit more fraught especially for her. Slowly she's been opening up more though and it's been really nice.
Not a doctor, but I think that has more to do with your upbringing than it does your personality type. Some good videos on that can be found over at School of Life, possibly the ones about attachment styles.
Probably savior masculine "De", ExxJs would constantly be processing this. Check out their video on "tribe above self, needy?”👇 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-w20aXQUnzN8.html
TO ALL TYPES! This is the typical human shit right there. It is very deep seated, and imprinted for thousands of years. Enneagram is a good system for this, rather than cognitive types like "MBTI" and so on. Deals more with the emotional stuff, the traumas and their reactions and adaptations of the child, becoming an "adult" and trying to cope with it, in different ways. 4's are prone to that fear.
Borderline personality disorder.. Cluster B in DSM V.... Just ask other people with BPD.... like Anakin Skywalker when he force choke his wife because he think she will go with Obi wan
I feel sorry for De users... afterlife is tough to find... and they only focus on the earthly things... and don't think about the tough questions... yeah... pretty sad...
From an INTP it feels like it’s out of the blue. It’s a matter of if not when. Understand established after the fact. I’ve noticed this reoccurs in semi structured environments especially work settings. The readily available documented rules, processes and guidelines provides a false promise of a ‘controlled’ social environment. Yes INTPs don’t like unreasonable rules but may choose unreasonable rules over perceived unreasonable tribe. Here is a needlessly long break down of humbling with Ti. Definitions: Self-doubt: The innovative fix for avoiding awkwardness from tribe. Humbling situations = (value given to self ) + ( valuation given by tribe) = (a positive number) Self-doubt = expensive insurance premiums from social accidents occurring from T driving in the F lane. Recipe for office humbling: INTP Ti + Ne: Safe to apply logic and stretch it to this control group. As documented here. And in this procedure.....(runs hypothetical social situations models based on rules read) Si: I’m new here and don’t have any data on this place. I’ll take notes. Fe: This should be like the Sims I can handle it. Ti says smiling will add +2 to relationships. Te + Ni: unbelievable... sitting this out. Se: uh so the bathroom is...which way Fi: zzzzz Result depends on time spent with tribe: Longer time = humbling chances increase Shorter time = May result is awkwardness or subdued whispers in the periphery beyond your SE.
