J. Krishnamurti - Ojai 1982 - Discussion with Scientists 1 - Roots of psychological disorder 

Ya Red so true. I do not want to take anything away from the importance of the topics, but I found myself simply enjoying seeing people sitting together, having a discussion. Not with the purpose of “winning” the discussion or be proven right. Simply for the purpose of searching for an answer to a problem for the benefit of all.

Exactly... It's a dialogue or discussion 😌

Yes, it’s refreshing that nobody got “ owned” or “destroyed “..Very civilised discussion between great minds.

Diving deep without outside help is not easy. Only _advanced_ seekers will be able to do that.

Yes indeed. Its almost like being able to breathe again after a long period of suffocation. Yes I watched these pointless debates you are mentioning. This is a serious dialogue and an increasingly important one.

Είναι όντως όμορφο.. συνεννοούνται όμως; Καταλαβαίνουν ο ένας τον άλλον ώστε να φτάσουν σε ένα συμπέρασμα;

Yeah, these days it's all about who can answer the quickest and instant gratification. Like interviews on news channels.

Answer is in their discussion only That people become more self centered as they don't even what to listen others opinions completely beyond reality People thinking their observations, experiences, opinions, are more important than the reality It's completely self centered individualistic way of life as jk said in discussion And one important thing is people are not adaptive they want to be stubborn

They're not lacking, they have completely vanished.

my goodness, yes!

Hence, INTERnational treasure, wouldn’t you say?

surprisingly i dont see it mind blowing at all. this conversation has awkward and JK drives most of the conversation based on his understanding.

the whole conv seems like to me a bunch of grown men trying to explain a toddler why he cant rub lasagna all over his own face and throw the dish on the floor, i can sense their frustration growing. however very impressive that they can keep it in themselves, numerous times jk keeps on reverting back to a point that has already been addressed- he might be demented but i would consider that extremely rude

Global treasure

@@WeebRemover4500I see the lack of understanding you have in this conversation. If he is coming back to the same question because these guys with him has not yet addressed the question!!

Oh man i felt the same watching it now...

When the algorithms become better than the human being....?

Yeah, nice of RU-vid to take a break form suggesting Miley Cyrus underwear dances.

At last! Thank you, RU-vid (this one time...)

If it was “literally” Worth it then that would mean there’s a value to it, how valuable is this to you

So, do you have any interesting anecdotes or insights to share? Did you happen to note them down?

You are here now 🙏

K has nothing to do with spiritually. In his words this is a quest to look at our current problems differently. As easy as that. Has nothing to do with spirit or god.

Yes, precious person. I wonder if it might prove to be the least painful thing to do in Reality. ?

This is not debate

i guess being judgemental in the right way, about evreything , can provide total freedom, experince a thing, being judgemtal about it, but in the right way, observe it, and same apply to myself too, to get away from self conflict or societal conflict

Intellectual trash talks are ego driven 😤

True Facts!

And yet, how does your comment contribute to this inquiry? Where is the actual inquiry ? Why do we keep up this status quo?

observing without evaluation is the highest form intelligence.

Of course

Are you here for enjoyment ?

@@guruprasadmuppana3717 it's still better than discussions/debates these days

my favorite part as well

@@guruprasadmuppana3717 No, he is here for self torment. Trust me, I know Clyde.

Do we know who the other participants are?

@@armandoalemdar534 J. Krishnamurti, David Bohm, John Hidley, Rupert Sheldrake

J.K is not religious. He is a great thinker and a philosopher

There are only so many ways to describe things. A philosopher unlike any other maybe?

you can't label something you don't know. jk is like that. he denies every identity you put. you can't see the ultimate seer.

You are the society! You are the people surrounding you, that's what i got from it .

me too to be honest the world would be a better place with people like krishnamurti

Translate . Where ??..it's in English originally

@@SiddharthSingh-up2gs Siddharth Singh captions

I agree, I also like how they make you think about these subjects. Just put more thought in to it some times we go about our life with out really thinking about our action. Once you start feeling your brain working and getting exercise its like a breath of fresh air. They should do more of this now a days.

Yes, our inwards lives have to advance to the degree of our outwards environment. We've gone to the moon and much more. We have to become inwardly every bit as "advanced" or we will destroy ourselves with the technologies we have created.

That’s the next part of evolution. Let’s hope we can manage to survive this climate crisis in order to fulfill us within

@@williamkoscielniak820 inward life advancement is not an evolutionary process. It has to happen instantly without an element of time. This was the unique contribution of Krishnamurti.

It feels like lot of things are rediscovered just because scientists feel superior to anything that was done previously and doesn't even attempt to understand what is already there

I'm from future to tell you we have created ai

Time as a concept is a result of ego

Yes it's relevant today, actually it's timeless it will remain relevant even after 100000 years because this is the "truth".

There is NO time , there Times

“Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines.” bucky fuller.

@@joeh858 Maybe it's just our own brain and habits that categorize knowledge for easy storage. Measuring units, religions, color, ethnicities. I read about this a lil while back and it's very well said. We categorize stuff to store the knowledge for easier access, and time seems to fit in such category. @Aek That's a whole other hour+ worth of conversation. I left school at 17, not sure if due to influence of the knowledge I gained, my personality/genes or a bit of both. But always looked at school, society and most groups in general as sheep. I know it sounds kinda arrogant, but I'm an open minded kid. My simple view of today: Education is like an industry, never teaching you how to lead or find your way, but instead follow others. You spend how many years the government thinks you need to work in order to get 'retired', only for most of us to get there without cash, with body and/or mind all fuked up, and without having enjoyed shxt. You get the conditions you feel like are sufficient to reproduce, just like animals, without even realizing it (income, home (habitat) and what most see as stability: a job), with the number of offspring depending on income and ambience (countries, imo), but that doesn't mean you're living as supposed or could.

yes

Same here

If the vedio is old it must be good It doesn't matter what the topic is whether it be history or psychological or history or anything If that vedio is old or described by Some Of the most intelligent people it'll be worth watching And I'm so grateful that I have RU-vid to go to past ❤️🔥❤️

Yes me too feal dt

Oh yes YOU are!

Ohh u r really lucky.

very true,, suffering is no suffering escaping is suffering ..hi tterie

If you look closely there's not suffering at all, it is just illusion. You have to look into suffering what it is.

@@lovbet8609 I believe that the experience of suffering isn't an illusion for our senses and our minds, as far as emotions and feelings storm through us. I agree with your last sentence, that we've got to look into suffering as what it is, yes 🧐

I would say pain and suffering is two different things , Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional . If some one poke you it will cause pain but in your mind you have option to make it suffering or not!!

This conversation alone reflects what Krishnamurti started our present world’s leaning into a whole new level of cognition in regards to A New Humanity. If I let go of trying to understand everything exactly and just let the way they are all talking sort of “wash over” me…I am transformed

Deepest? I HOPE YOU ARE LESS THAN 18.

Please don't say that. He's just a man who I'm sure understood but I'm not sure what exactly.

@@TheTirikou easy, he was just playing. I recognize that saying from the movie Amadeus about Mozart. Very unKrishnamurti of you to ask someone to not express themselves because something they said makes you feel a certain way. What did that comment make you feel? Go into it.

He was a philosopher. Not to be worshipped, but studied.

I am skeptical that this is true. The world trends towards increased disorder constantly, it seems. I’m very heartbroken about the state of the world today.

@@jdavidrhea Same here. I don´t think human beings could ever really change...

⁠@@comenadgetmeor it could be that the downward spiral that society is currently heading, will simultaneously create a bigger need for this truth to be heard by everyone. Just like most of us with that sort of subconscious craving for the right way to live our lives we feel different trying to conform to the way this society is setup and cannot accept that this is the way we were meant to live, being stuck in a trap of our own selfish and materialistic making.

​@@jdavidrheaone year later...it has only gotten worse. 😢

Happy to find someone not dazzled by JK glamour. Kings and nobles from ancient times were recognized by their pose and posture. JK certainly is no fool, but I don't buy him as a guru (nice thing that he didn't think that either)

Sorry this conversation hurt you. It might be difficult for you to comprehend the fact that even after spending decades on trying to learn something you could only scratch the superficial layer of what you were trying to understand. And thats okay, failure is also part of life.

@@neerajsathish007 literally burneddd him

No no you cannot see him, that's clear..

Come on.. Joke? It's a play, a divine play, wherein One plays many! Don't subscribe to the play of many and the joke will be on you!

it's still not clear how can an individual explore and figure out without any help from a specialist. I have heard few of Krishnamurthy's talks. He has stressed upon the fact that an individual need not require a guru or a teacher. even if we consider individualism a theoretical , relative concept , it still does not provide sufficient emphasis on how the self indulgence can explore reality. There is a purpose as to why I am myself and not you (vice versa). if there was no individualism there would have been no purpose of the theoretical self.

Yes, and both day and night have their own beauty and place. Both light and shadow make up the whole.

The ego/self-centredness is hard-wired into every living creature. To refer to it as 'conditioning' is pure poppycock. To suggest that it can be gotten rid of through some form of enquiry and awareness is purer poppycock.

I could weigh your curiosity and feel that you were immersed ❤️❤️🙏🙏 like me🙏❤️❤️

You're interpreting.

He may have shook him up a bit. Lol

@Edward Field Very well it must have hurt you did it not?.

I agree completely. Krishnamurti & David Bohm's dialogues have always been my favorites. Bohm would agree with you too. He even developed a philosophy of dialogue known as Bohmian Dialogue. It's about hearing everyone's perspective as valid and that agreement is not necessary or even conducive to understanding. Different viewpoints are essential for a deeper understanding of reality.

Either way if wisdom lies in any narrative, what good is it to the deaf and blind poet and the millions who live like him?

@@adamlane8751 The time every person takes part in the discussion should have been considered in his Bohmian Dialogue. I admire K but not his interruptions, or making monologues in the middle of a collective "discussion".

I've realized that I prefer dialogues to monologues in general. My thoughts are more profound and pregnant with idea's when I am dialoging with someone than when I am alone. I think this is the case for humanity in general. Others give us perspectives that open up mental doorways that wouldn't be opened up without them.

So true. The world rarely finds such gifts to humanity.

And he's trying his hardest not to dismantle anything, I feel like. Just asking people to open up to a new possibility

yes as you do right now... and me :)

Every one needs to speak their mind ...only then it counts as discussion... otherwise its a speech ....did you missed reading the title of the video entirely or are you also an example of displaying your smartness by making such statement?

is that a fundamental truth?Or your truth?

People of this generation should listen this man more to understand the dishonest baba's who are lecturing stupid stuff all over.

Godd observation. I hate when people talk over each other during conversation in Indian Tvs.

But why would you unnecessarily do all these acts There are many people roaming naked on roads just for fun They conditioned there mind that way

care to elaborate on this bit more?

Because when one mistakenly dwells in the idea of non self of flower he/she finds things like lack of accountability, and lack of other good qualities. As if it’s ok to slack down because self doesn’t exist na.

@@moser3712 whoa makes sense and this was how I actually lived life for some moments. No love for the person(s) in that instance.

We experience god/our true essence/this now moment through the self

In nothingness be with it... Don't just agree just try it yourself and see...

Thanks. I was very disappointed with the discussion. The comments are also made me sad.

I agree, they are trying but they all still look lost and at times, they are totally lost.

@@glampreda3803 perhaps they are rooted in science, not the Divine Spirit.

A fair point, but do not write off David too fast. He plays an important role in bridging the gap. This would not be possible if he did not have a grasp of what K wants to get across

Is Comparison a form of violence?

Why are you pitting K against them? Obviously, not everyone knows what K knows, and these men wanted to learn more about K's stance by having a discussion with him.

Mee too brother🙏🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳

He is very lovable 💞

'Circus' is an apt description for this event.

@@bezonshroff How?

@@JaeseongDaeseyoung-wu3gn Sorry, I don't mean to downplay the importance and seriousness of this discussion among these great minds. Here, the word "circus" implies the intellectual side of a discussion and our (humans) inability to look at a problem holistically.

99,9% of the world are still living in the separate psychological condition JK is talking about but aware the awakening as the light of source is returning to this world :)

Yeah I was quite amazed when he was repeatedly using this word for one who is so younger than him that's show which sort of ancestors we Indians used to have but now days politicians and thinkers are totally disaster,they have become completely trashes, like our politicians ,who just abuses each other.i hate our politicians and celebrities of modern times

Thank you.🥰

That might be true, but then again, what can anyone who is living claim to know about death, we don’t even know the nature of our manifest being, therefore in conclusion I see security as such , by simply being the process and the process being through itself. There is neither positive nor negative, right nor wrong, good nor evil, for when all happenings are meditated upon at their ultimate source of emergence, their absolute nature most enigmatic and elusive to discovery is predetermined. That is there can not be an ego or separate will in any organism because they are influenced by the same natural processes of predetermination. Wherefore even the accusation of one having a ego is also nonsensical in the sense that it is truly that predetermined process selfsame. When one by grace truly understands this not expecting anything marvelous or excitingly different to occur, one is enlightened to the truth. Whereby all humans are as puppets, and what we think, speak and do is our script. All of the world around is as the stage, the source of all our being is the same one causing the puppet to do what it does and is the cause for the process called play or life. Wars, disease, crime, religion, social institutions and their processes our relationship with family , friends, spouse or loved ones, all are our script or what the Buddhists would call Karma. Yet all of these experiences, they have a common relation and that is they are integrated through the senses in which the through our sensory functions we involuntarily manifest the stage and the script into being. Our bodies naturally know the script and it is programmed in us this is through genetics and DNA. But it is through the body’s of each organism where the process or God communicates it’s will or script through. To understand this you must refresh your mind of what you thought life to be, when a actor plays a villain is it a wrong role or right one, it’s none it’s just the script , when actor plays a hero it is neither a good role or bad role it’s just the script. Likewise, life is neither good nor evil, right nor wrong, hard nor easy, fair nor unfair. Life is simply your script.

OK, so do you feel - as I do - that the event was a muddle ?

He was an observer, while most of the others were specialized in a certain area. They're not frozen, they're just letting the knowledge sink in and thinking about the topics before answering. Krishna had a peculiar way to argument. He asks questions that require deep thought or barely have answers, making others seem 'oblivious', but that isn't what's happening, specially in this case, where they're all professionals and love knowledge.. None here present in the comments would be able to do better in a argument/debate with such a type of mind and questions.

@@DarkForceUbz why are you explaining to her? Let him find out by own 😂 now im talking like jj 😑

​@@DarkForceUbzthey were all frozen except Bohm. Bohm is really a seeker, he was the man of real enquiry.

Can you please describe the statement. ? 🙏

Like he said "I don't know is the beginning". Enquiry is the key.

"Keep trying" is also part of a process. But only the self is processing. Therefore there is no process.

So when you say "all I can do is keep trying" is keeping you closer from the self.

Yes. Nice to see a so called scientist being enlightened. Wisdom, strong intuition, the highest form of intelligence,

yes you are right

May be I am wrong . What l learnt studing was.. Budhya says. The root of suffering is "trisna" Or thrust or desires.. Following the " Marga" ( way) takes you to " Nirvana" Or end of suffering. Although Hinduism explains suffering in a slightly different way.

Pain and consciousness are two similar things. No consciousness = no pain. The more pain, the deeper you can develop your consciousness. You can become a habitual artist and refine your craft in such a way that it becomes automatic. All your moves will become routines. You become a machine Great art can be made thus. You can also become a machine that is broken. Great pain. There never will be routines. Everything you look at you will see as if you saw it for the first time. If you can grasp that in your art, great art can be made thus. Pain or no pain, it doesn't matter; when you're dead the pain will be gone. Spirit is illusion. All you have is the 'body', it is the substrate that makes up your world. It tells lies and illusions rise from it. Once you see through those lies, a great pain will fall upon you.

You don't need to learn all the time (although you memorize all the time) so if, in an ocean of bliss, you suffer at junctures then, that pain that points to what needs to be immediately taken care of, is fine. Otherwise, constant pain, crying wolf, makes you lose your sense of priority and what to focus on.