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J.S. Bach - Contrapunctus XIV - Completion by Yngve Jan Trede (1995) 

hollowchatter
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At 384 bars, German-born Danish composer Yngve Jan Trede's 1995 realization of Contrapunctus XIV is one of the longest completions to date of the final unfinished fugue of Bach's compositional cycle "Die Kunst der Fuge" (The Art of Fugue).
"Tredes' completion may be regarded as the most successful of all hitherto published, especially in stylistic terms [...]" - Thomas Daniel (Bachs unvollendete Quadrupelfuge aus "Die Kunst der Fuge")
This is also one of the few completions that includes the simultaneous inversion of all four subjects (at bar 364), alongside Donald Tovey and Michael Ferguson's.
Trede's analysis of Contrapunctus XIV and defense of his completion can be read (in German) here: www.dym.dk/dym_...
Soundfont: Claviorganum from "Musica Barocca"

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1 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 62   
@OldHendonian
@OldHendonian 5 лет назад
I am sure Bach would be really proud of this
@stuartparsons4948
@stuartparsons4948 Год назад
This is a very impressive completion, but for me the ultimate completion still belongs to Tudor Saveanu. I love the way Saveanu completes Fugue XIV by using a fourth subject which is identical to the opening subject of Fugue I - rather than by using the slightly more elaborate theme first seen in Fugues V - VII (as per this completion and most other completions I've heard). To go full circle in such a way as Saveanu does feels more Bachian to me than some of the other efforts I have heard.
@johannsebastianbach3411
@johannsebastianbach3411 4 года назад
I met my wonderful student Mr. Trede during winter of 2011 high up here, and I personally gave him an A+ for his homework. We went over it together to see if there were any rooms for improvement.
@gradpigodemosviedaff
@gradpigodemosviedaff 3 года назад
That's marvelous! :D And, may I ask, oh great master: What did you tell him about the false relation in bar 367 (b in the soprano against a b flat in the bass)?
@ardakaya9867
@ardakaya9867 2 года назад
@@gradpigodemosviedaff Well I mean they met and went over it AFTER Yngve died, so I guess, we just need to wait until we die to find out?
@VexaS1n
@VexaS1n 2 года назад
@@gradpigodemosviedaff It poses an interesting issue. The soprano can be altered to b flat, but the subject will lose its chromatic guise.
@MrAtanasDobrev
@MrAtanasDobrev 2 года назад
@@gradpigodemosviedaff I mentionet it too...some colission
@psijicassassin7166
@psijicassassin7166 Год назад
The fourth note of the reintroduced first voice in bar 344 is dissonant. Not a Bach move. [ 12:39 ]
@metodoinstinto
@metodoinstinto 4 года назад
Great work, bruh. I would have done totally different, but that's what's nice about being a composer, right?
@henrykwieniawski7233
@henrykwieniawski7233 4 года назад
“Great work, bruh.” Why is this so funny?? LOL
@numerousattention103
@numerousattention103 5 лет назад
7:13 B A C H
@Bach6032
@Bach6032 7 месяцев назад
One of the better conjectural conclusions. My favorite remains that of Lionel Rogg, but Trede's feels quite consistent with the style of Bach.
@riverstun
@riverstun 5 лет назад
Wow. One of the first, really convincing endings I have heard. Almost no point I felt that it was non-Bachian. 12:40 The Soprano seemed a bit too high - unbalanced - but this might just be the instrument. Other than that, this sounds - well, convincing!
@Aorda
@Aorda 3 года назад
I think it wouldn't have sounded off should it was played by strings.
@octaviolee8282
@octaviolee8282 3 года назад
8:51 os when Yngve's completion begins
@kohmekonisch7265
@kohmekonisch7265 Год назад
Thank you!!
@geiryvindeskeland7208
@geiryvindeskeland7208 6 лет назад
I am sorry for my inadequate English. YES! Finally here you are again my dear completion written by Yngve Jan Trede. But first a tragic mistake: Soprano bar 367. It should be B natural, not B flat! Yngve Jan Trede is more creativ then me, and he did so much right! Unlike many others, he composed a really completion! In the triple fugue, all three themes switch places in every development, exactly what Bach did in his double fugue. Too many completers overlook that important detail. And he continue the same pattern during the quadruple fugue. Well done, and absolutely correct! Yngve Jan Trede also understood that the second part of the Bach-theme shall shall be removed in inversion, exactly what Bach did. Unlike some/many others, Yngve Jan Trede studying the score very closely. This extencive completion deserves real instruments!
@hollowchatter7429
@hollowchatter7429 6 лет назад
Trede acknowledges the odd cross-relation between the soprano and bass in his score and points to bars 9-10, 21-22 and 31-32 in the Adagio of the Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 as precedent for it.
@elias69420
@elias69420 3 года назад
Beautiful! A special thank you for the analysis! It makes it much easier to understand what's going on in this work. What I didn't enjoy was the timbre used in this video. I believe a pianoforte or a soft string timbre would be more appropriate, especially for the high notes.
@JohnC-px7sj
@JohnC-px7sj Год назад
To those who are commenting on the length of Trede's completion(s), let's keep in mind that of the 384 measures in the video above, 239 are by Bach, which means Trede added 145 measures, and in his second version, he added only 73 measures (shorter than Tovey's!) , for a total of 312.
@riverstun
@riverstun 5 лет назад
Every time I hear this fugue (regardless of completions, although it's fun to hear those), I'm amazed at how a piece of music can be so full of crystalline beauty - how each note is in it's place and in no other. The instrumentation here shows that well.
@luciangabrielpopescu
@luciangabrielpopescu 2 года назад
This is the greatest work inside the greatest work ever written, so what to expect there but beauty distilled at atomic levels of purity
@psijicassassin7166
@psijicassassin7166 Год назад
Really ? The fourth note of the reintroduced first voice is dissonant. Not a Bach move. [ 12:39 ]
@MrMusiquemonamour
@MrMusiquemonamour 2 года назад
Much respect is due, but your bar 367 is a step too far for me!
@Geopholus
@Geopholus 6 лет назад
Thanks Hollow, for re-uploading this newer 'performance of Yngwe Jan Trede's classic completion of Bach''s ContraP XIV from Art of Fugue. I kinda liked the mellowish organ voicing You had chosen the last time, as it was a little more organic/natural sounding , although this choice of a combination of metallic harpsichord/ organ/ synth, is harmonically clear, and fulfills the possibility that Bach may have intended that it be performed primarily on Harpsic, or organ,.. . but I think it is universal enough to work very well either way. It is always surprising to me that every good completion although using material from Bach in various 'combinations" or permutations come out quite differently!
@beanpole8294
@beanpole8294 10 месяцев назад
huge fan of yngwie malmsteen so i want to trust this yngwie did bach justice as well
@bakmanthetitan
@bakmanthetitan 2 года назад
The moment starting at 9:28 where S2 and S1 combine with the inverted BACH motif to form a Neapolitan sixth is breathtaking. I have no doubt that Bach would have done the same had he completed this piece. Same with the moment at 11:35 where S4 and S2 in perfect stretto produce a single-note line between them.
@psijicassassin7166
@psijicassassin7166 Год назад
Can you explain why the fourth note of the reintroduced first voice is dissonant? Not a Bach move. [ 12:39 ]
@raanthai548
@raanthai548 4 года назад
Previously in this piece, Bach would cadence after all fuge subjects concluded before introducing the next fuge subject. Do you have a cadence similar to the previous ones after bar 239?
@johnchessant3012
@johnchessant3012 Год назад
In my opinion it visits a few too distant keys for it to be Bach, but it sounds amazing nonetheless!
@psijicassassin7166
@psijicassassin7166 Год назад
The fourth note of the reintroduced first voice is dissonant. Not a Bach move. [ 12:39 ]
@JoeLinux2000
@JoeLinux2000 4 года назад
Is there an English translation of the German anywhere? pdf. is such a sucky format. It is so often not usefuls at all.
@rocketsroar1
@rocketsroar1 6 месяцев назад
Very impressive completion. I think Bach left this unfinished work as a kind of homework assignment for future composers.
@Bach6032
@Bach6032 6 месяцев назад
That's a very clever way of looking at it. Who knows? If not, I think he'd still appreciate other composers picking up where he left off.
@JohnC-px7sj
@JohnC-px7sj Год назад
By the way, Yngve Jan Trede's 13-page explanation is in English!
@zionfortuna
@zionfortuna 10 месяцев назад
Is it? Where di you find it?
@canman5060
@canman5060 2 года назад
This is like integrating 10 times and more in integral calculus !
@Rayenn_19
@Rayenn_19 Год назад
8:53
@2024Warren
@2024Warren 4 года назад
A MOST remarkable completion. Bravo. There is never a point at which your continuation loses any sense of Bach's style. How long did it take you to compose it? Has there been any attempt to arrange your composition for a baroque or chamber orchestra or any other instrumentation? The only other long completion which I have found to be satisfying is that by Rudolph Barshai, performed by the Barshai Chamber Orchestra under his baton. I have a recording of it, but it was his live performance of the entire Art of Fugue at the Sydney Opera House in October 1973, including the incomplete Contrapunctus XIV, followed by his completion, which first opened my ears to this astonishing work.
@hollowchatter7429
@hollowchatter7429 4 года назад
I'm not certain how long it took Trede to complete the fugue -- a year or two possibly? The score is copyrighted 1994, but the autograph at the end says 1995. Unfortunately, Trede only published it in an academic journal along with his defense and never offered it to any music publishing houses like Zoltan Goncz did with his, hence Trede's completion is far less known and has never been arranged for other forces by anyone.
@2024Warren
@2024Warren 4 года назад
@@hollowchatter7429 I had not realised that Mr Van Trede had passed away. His score is available for download and I shall work on a piano version which may allow for some additional clarity in the audio of the parts, especially when all four subjects or their inverses are set against each other.
@TS-rr8qp
@TS-rr8qp Год назад
@@hollowchatter7429 As Tredes last student at the Royal Danish Academy of Music, I know, that he was working with this over 9 years. The first major work was the analysis of the detailed and overall structure of what Bach already wrote in order to finish the work in the same spirit. I might try to find more of his left study material and sketches in order to learn from his studies.
@meninohulk4289
@meninohulk4289 Год назад
​@@TS-rr8qphave you seen Mr. Saveanu's attempt at a Contrapunctus XIV completion? It seems to borrow a lot from Mr. Trede's but attempting to make it so the fourth subject is identical to the original subject introduced in Contrapunctus I, and I would like to hear your thoughts on it.
@RockStarOscarStern634
@RockStarOscarStern634 2 года назад
I hope this appears in every Barenreiter Verlag edition of a piece of music someday
@TheMrCrez
@TheMrCrez 2 года назад
This could be a Runescape track
@zionfortuna
@zionfortuna 2 года назад
A long one, for sure! XD
@TheMrCrez
@TheMrCrez 2 года назад
@@zionfortuna Runescapers generally have it!
@MrAtanasDobrev
@MrAtanasDobrev 2 года назад
very nice variant
@zionfortuna
@zionfortuna 2 года назад
This completion sounds very convincing to me, I wonder what's its current copyright status, since it was never published outside of the DYM journal...
@johannesorphal6945
@johannesorphal6945 3 года назад
Outstanding! Thank you
@ghmus7
@ghmus7 4 года назад
It's very well done, but just way way too long. it has been shown pretty conclusively that Bach intended 47 more measures, not 384.
@hollowchatter7429
@hollowchatter7429 4 года назад
According to whom and on what basis?
@ghmus7
@ghmus7 4 года назад
@@hollowchatter7429 The Dissertation by Indra Nicholas Martindale Hughes. Bach left a coded indication at the end of the mss. I play the completion by Dr. Kevin Korzin which is around that length.
@hollowchatter7429
@hollowchatter7429 4 года назад
@Dr. Gregory Hamilton It's an interesting and immersive piece of scholarship, but a few of the arguments are shaky and required a bit too much suspension of disbelief. It's far from definitive and some articles have been written since that make convincing alternative arguments about the piece without taking into account Hughes's perspective (i.e. Thomas Daniel's 2010 book on Contrapunctus XIV and Glen Wilson's 2014 article in Early Music).
@ghmus7
@ghmus7 4 года назад
@@hollowchatter7429 Ok I will look at those! However, I think the code she found on the last page of the Mss is an incredible discovery. I really think that that is what she says. BTW Dr. Kevin Korzin who wrote a fine completion is writing a book of Die Kunst for Oxford.
@ghmus7
@ghmus7 4 года назад
@@hollowchatter7429 Hi do you happen to have the title for the Daniel Book? Thanks.
@canman5060
@canman5060 2 года назад
Postgraduate music analysis.
@fritzfischer5258
@fritzfischer5258 3 года назад
@hollowchatter: Thomas Daniel limits later in the above cited section of his book the meanings of "the most successful of all hitherto published, especially in stylistic terms" a few lines later only. The full "critic" of Trede's completion isn't that a glorification, but points out the shortcomings ("...lack of diversity in the thematic sections...the inversion of all 4 themes compositorical goes astray...no hint whatsoever for a free "accompaniment" of the first soprano entry by the bass... a.s.o").
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