Sorry but this is completely surface value. I've been around incel circles dating back to 2014 and this type of analysis is completely incorrect. While I condemn the grifting, content driven, nature of modern internet manosphere, there is an inderlying problem that incels have that I've yet seen be addressed.
I've rarely heard many people use the word "grifter", that's exactly what someone like Andrew Tate is. He is doing this to take boys money, and it's working very well for him.
Second time I’ve listened to this...amazing speaker .. he’s given me much food for thought in terms of supporting my 14 year old son to navigate adolescence and life. Can‘t believe he didn’t get a first for this!
Important to mention it's not just single guys who can fall into these traps. My ex became very bitter about life and starting insisting feminism was somehow to blame for everything. Of course I eventually became the enemy because I had a job and education when he didn't. He was also very isolated, had barely any friends, and spent most days gaming (not surprisingly). Now you know why he's my ex, heh.
Alfie: what a guy! My little grand son (11) had heard of A Tate and asked us over dinner once. We had the type of conversation with him with the arguments Alfie is also using. I would be so proud to introduce my little grand son to Alfie, as a role model (his dad is also really great, by the way). Male role models who are not their fathers are so important for kids, as are female role models by the way.
Another of the new issues is that people like Tate, who may or may not be a character he's made up to make money, is it's global. The same bile and disgusting attitudes are in the playgrounds of Sydenham and Sydney. Of Peterborough and Perth. Of York and New York. 1 person can do global damage
An excellent indepth book on the subject is MEN WHO HATE WOMEN 'The Extremism no one is talking about' , by LAURA BATES. It's an absolutely fascinating and eye opening read. She literally infiltrated the online incel sites, posing as Alex. It is a thorough examination of the movement and idealology.
There's another book series starting from 2005, with the same name in Swedish, touching on the same subject, from Stieg Larsson's (RIP) _*Män Som Hatar Kvinnor*._ And a super-terrific miniseries made about it starring Noomi Rapace and Michael Nyqvist (RIP). I'll check out the Bates book, Jane.
@@orcho141 Reading the book might be a way to get solutions. I'll read it not only because of solutions, but you can't have enough informations in terms of destructive anti- approaches. Social Media is packed with them to counter ideas of another movement, party or group. Global anti- Feminism is complex compared to the political right's worldwide spread Anti-Wokeness or "All Lives Matter" which are like an open book. You don't really need to read books on the latter and might as well watch football aka soccer
Is there no way of holding these social media platforms accountable? I witnessed the beginning of the internet & I’m pro non censorship of the internet I suppose but when their targeting actual kids with this stuff it’s a bit mad. We used to have to go to special sites to see most of what’s on Instagram feeds now. The amount of videos normalising violence towards women is really scary to. Surely they could have legal action taken against them?
@@jakstrike1 the videos that circulate, there’s a lot of violence in those videos. Especially towards women, if you then read the comments on said videos there are a lot of people joking and laughing and even worse. That’s on the top 5 social media platforms on a regular basis.
This young gent is a very informed individual. Reminds me of Owen Jones. He's so nice that I'm pretty certain that many a gammon listening will already be seething at his open mindedness and general positivity.
Please don’t be. There’s so much fear mongering in the media. Most men don’t hate women and are still naturally extremely protective of women. Don’t live in fear of a minority of extremists.
GLUG GLUG O’BRIEN SWIGS FROM LARGE FLASK DURING CALL TO STEM HIS ALL TOO OBVIOUS BOREDOM Maybe it’s about time that LBC management checked exactly what was in the very suspicious flask O’Brien was drinking from during this call. Surely, drinking on air is a sackable offence isn’t it?
being a university lecturer in 2023 is a wasted opportunity for your life how much do you personaly teach about debt / credit cards / inflation / risks?# i could youtube your entire career in about 4 days.. this is what tate teaches. bye boomer.
Likewise, actually - me in politics and philosophy. I agree with you (although I would encourage him to speak with less speed, but hey, it's radio...).
This young man, Alfie, is so incredibly impressive! He's the one who needs a some sort of platform to be able to talk to the young men who are falling into these distubing traps. His parents/friends/family should be very proud.
I couldn’t agree more with the caller that having conversations with your kids about difficult topics like sexuality needs to start early. I wasn’t as great at that but my husband was and I am thankful for that everyday because he made it easier for me. You can’t wait until your kids are teenagers.
I heard this as it was broadcast, and knew it would get its own clip. Alfie gave an absolutely brilliant explanation of how it starts, feeds upon and feeds the fears and loneliness of young men. This is essential listening, especially for anyone who knows and cares about boys and young men falling vulnerable to this vile culture.
John Douglas, ex-FBI, said that you can tell a lot about a man by how he treats and talks about women. And this is coming from an expert on serial killers.
Great input from this young man. As a secondary school teacher, I've noticed a big increase recently in boys of about 13-15 in particular, quoting Tate and acting in misogynist ways towards female staff and pupils. Sadly, a lot of these pupils do not have parents at home who are able or willing to talk to them in the way this caller suggests. I'm hopeful through the relationships that we build with our students that we can put an end to the influence of such hateful rhetoric by teaching our kids to be critical thinkers who will question those attitudes that seem to blame and harm or objectify others in any way.
@@jimcourt9164 I think the main point is that they shouldn't be bullies, and treat people with respect. I am not sure this is related to how people dress.
This was one of the greats... This young man is so articulate and on point... I'm hoping he goes into some kind of teaching or mentoring to young men... Great job
Get Alfie into schools! My daughter’s year 11 assembly this week was on Toxic Masculinity, delivered to both young men and women. According to my daughter, the woman (who must have had the best of intentions) who delivered the talk appeared to list a range of toxic male behaviours and attitudes such as the incel movement and the result was a scary list of bad things that boys and men can do/be. It was a one way conversation, no q&a, and my daughter said most of her friends left the assembly thinking it was poorly run, badly pitched and not at all constructive. Schools need to work with boys in small groups, run by men who can guide, inspire and support them.
This is a perfect example of why young men and boys are increasingly feeling alienated and are falling into the clutches of cretins like Tate. There's a persistent feeling that boys/men are inherently bad, and they're constantly being told they're bad. It's always coming from a negative angle.
The chief reason, among many other reasons, I stopped using my FB is because I was becoming so depressed at seeing all these "great lives" of people I knew, and didn't for that matter. It wasn't motivating me to do better, it wasn't inspiring to be better or anything like that. It was making me feel bad about myself and choices I made and where I was in life and only served as a reminder of accomplishments I would never achieve even if I had no desire to do the things all these other people were doing. It was hurting me and I had to get out.
Smart move. Social media should be used in moderation. I believe there are studies on the correlation of social media usage and mental health issues. Also it is worth noting that a lot of the social media grifters are conning people into believing they live glamorous lifestyles.
It's been a few years since I departed any form of social media and my life is so much more relaxed and happy now. I spend more time reading, taking care if those who matter most to me, and seeing the world through my own eyes and not someone else's feed. I've heard that the teenage suicide figures since social media became popularised have climbed huge amounts in direct correlation to the numbers of young people on social media, with Meta claiming that they have been putting in things to prevent this, though what measures they have taken I do not know as I am out of touch with it. Likewise, I've never had tiktok and I do not really understand why there are suddenly stories about influencers, though I only know of Andrew Tate and Logan Paul, one for his arrest in București, and the other because of a pyramid scheme game scam which has ripped people off millions of dollars. If this is what influencers amount to, I'm happy ignoring that world too.
Last thing I heard about a correlation and actual causation between the use of social media and the development of depression is, the active and passive use of social media. If you just watch other people do better, it tends to have this effect, but engaging in conversations and bein active on a platform does not. So, if you found yourself get depressed and using your social media to feed an insecurity, you are better off deleting the account, but it's not a rule that social media causes depression. And I don't remember the paper that sipports this, but I remember this actually having a scientific basis of sorts.
Never look at people who have more than you. Look at the ones who have less and would give anything to have what you have. It'll put things into perspective and allow you to enjoy what have and build off it.
Me too bro, after Uni in 2016, i started seeing all my friends after school posting all this thing's they were doing, all this amazing life they havd already some getting married and stuff, and me my university girlfriend broke up with me, folks were askingal this serious questions about what i was doing with my life, lol sometimes at night i cry before sleep, cos i didn't have the answer and no one told me hey no one has figured it out but everyone is trying to just like i was, fast forward a few year's later, am still trying to figure it out but am not in the same place i was before, some of those one's that looked like they already figured it out it turns out no one has really figured some just pretend or hide it better, while some are lucky that's it.
You just have to hope that young people are clever enough to see through the fantastic thrash Tate, Shapiro, Walsh, Crowder et al. peddle. Some are thankfully. Some aren't.
I am on the left but Crowder, Walsh, Shapiro etc are not grifters just because they are right of centre. This is what I cant stand about my fellow lefties, pure divisivenss.
@@rjflores438 anyone on youtube pumping out video after video about the latest hot button topic with their almost cartoonishly predictable slant us a grifter. They continue it not to highlight issues and help people. They do it because they know a topic is doing the rounds and they can make an easy buck by jumping on it and telling their fanbase what they want to hear. LBC is the same but at least have the sense to recognise it when you see it. Grifters all of them.
(*Clapping*) One of the most informative and insightful conversations on the internet rn. Recently being cheated on (again), my tiktok and insta get swarmed with Andrew Tattie content, and I'll be open and say I fell for it. I was vulnerable to hating women, and after a few weeks I thought, "this is not me and wrong, yes I've been cheated on, but that's not in my control, it was her that decided to do it" I then learned about the algorithm of TT and Alfie is spot on, The only way I can get around it was to delete TT and read books. I hope people can shake their heads and wake up. There is too many bad influencers.
? The blackpill/incels are who WOULD help you by informing you that it's not necessarily your fault you get cheated on. It's because women view 90% of men as unattractive and are prone to cheating when they meet a top 10er. Thats why they alone among animals evolved concealed fertility ("dual mating strategy"). Incels are fact- and experience-based observers. It's hilarious to invite an academic to denounce them since all incel discussions rely on ACADEMIC PAPERS OF SOCIAL AND BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENTS LOL
I managed to wean my son off the AT train about 6 months ago. He was just turning 14. I caught him just in time. Lots of communication.... fathers do your research and show the young men how a REAL man behaves by respecting women. I dread to think what it would be like if I even missed it my a few months. Some of his friends are already lost.
Just yet another reminder that social media is a cancer and the sooner we move on from it as a society the better. I’m two months clean of social media and have never been happier!
@@regs_j So many of our grubby, little, fifth rate, modern day career politicians can't even say what a woman is, although many are married to one......
@@regs_j everyone has a mother. Auntie's, sister's, daughter's. Would you be happy to let your daughter near tate and his cult, if yes, I hope you aren't a father.
It's very funny in how all these boys studying how the mind of the modern woman thinks, not one of them thought to just ask lol (because if they do, they'll almost always get deradicalised)
Not though, I would bet with equally happy results all round .Apart from obvious cosmetic advantages some boys possess, others may be hampered in less obvious ways such as not growing up in the company of female siblings or friends.
The term incel was made by a woman, who was writing about herself, doing her own dissertation at uni. It’s a fact that many don’t know or omit (all are welcome to research this). He is referencing MALE incels. Incel just means involuntary celibate. It’s not specific just to men.
@@ottoweininger8156 Well THAT won't be difficult. Having a relationship might be though. But incels are picky too. They get interest from women THEY don't want but omit that part from their convos.
Very little substance here. Talk to boys as a solution is just a platitude - of not much use if you don't know what to say or you repeat the same mantras that are meant to villainise masculinity. I'm afraid that general advice like 'be yourself, respect/be nice to girls, have goals etc.' won't cut it. Parents need to be in a position to explain to their children why society and workplaces prioritise women, why so many women promote their beauty and body for money and attention, and why most women only marry men higher in the socioeconomic hierarchy than themselves. They also need to be able to explain the popularity of stories like 'Fifty Shades of Grey' among women. Thanks.
An intelligent caller… Quite rare, for radio these days. Well explained, spot on with social internet “stuff” Really, really cool! Brilliant guy by the sound of things.
Sadly even many parents of these brainwashed kids see Andrew Tate as someone that they find "hilarious" and is being funny and who they will gladly watch because they find him entertaining. Some have no issue with their kids consuming this kind of content unfortunately. The lack of social support for young men without anyone to turn to and without close friends leads to this sort of situation. The more we can generally socialise kids and teenagers outside of the ad-driven social feeds that thrive on keeping kids attention the better. These echo chambers that perpetuate this kind of content and make kids believe it's mainstream in order to keep their eyes in the screen are the issue. We need better systems to get people talking in person, socialising with others and generally mixing with people outside of their own image.
@@skizz741 early/mid thirties. I'm in the generation that straddles those that didn't have internet growing up, and those that only know life with the internet. It's crystal clear that media feeds that rely on keeping your attention through suggested content are the reason for so many of the problems young people face today whether it's self worth, self image or deifying and obsessively defending these grifters and influencers they have parasocial relationships with.
Sadly even many family members of these brainwashed NPS and SJWs see James O'Brien as someone that they find "hilarious" and is being funny and who they will gladly listen to because they find him entertaining. Some have no issue with their family members consuming this kind of content unfortunately. The lack of social support for NPCs and SJWs without anyone to turn to and without close friends leads to this sort of situation. The more we can generally socialise these NPCs outside of the ad-driven social feeds that thrive on keeping NPC's attention the better. These echo chambers that perpetuate this kind of sick woke content and make NPCs believe it's mainstream in order to keep their eyes in the screen are the issue. We need better systems to get people talking in person, socialising with others and generally mixing with people outside of their own woke image.
@@ppo2424 I am sure that we are all wishing that the vile propagandist O'Brien was behind bars for quite a few years, to rescue our children from his disgusting woke ideology.
What a joy to listen to this conversation between these two gentlemen as I grew old hopefully gracefully I learn more every day . Thanks to Alfie and James, and you know I think this young man Alfie will go far and perhaps even a role model for some. It's nice to drop onto quality now and again.😎
This young lad is already sparking his mind in all the right ways. I wish him all the best and hope he discovers even more about himself and the world of contemporary academia. Edit: ''Chronically online since 15'', I felt that. Though for me it was dependent on the dial up since dungarees. :')
It's such a difficult sort of landscape to navigate, because these people are so instinctively repulsing and difficult to sympathise with. But I think overcoming that instinct and being willing to show compassion, and a healthy dose of disapproval at the same time is a difficult balance. Alienating them completely only feeds their sense of victimhood and sends them deeper into isolation, and as tempting as that is - it doesn't solve any problems. I've known people who've fallen down that rabbit hole, who've let frustration and resentment get the better of them - but I've known people who have turned that around. It helps to hold a mirror up their behaviour - but without them feeling cornered or attacked. It requires a certain level of patience and the provision of recourse. They clearly need help - then help them.
They don't want the help because they don't think there's anything wrong. We're the ones who are wrong, in their minds. I've tried to have conversations with some of them but it's like they are brainwashed. They constantly demand proof and then deny the fact it's proof when you present it to them. I find it impossible to get through to them. There will be those who can, I hope, but I certainly can't.
Currently writing my Masters on masculinity - really interesting and scary time to be a man and to think of how unclear the path ahead must be for so many young men. Alfie is absolutely right in everything he said, we need positive roll models for young men or we will end up with a generation of brainwashed misogynists ...
If only the ideology you subscribe to hadn't actively connived to chase many positive role models from half of the families in the land. Also if people would stop constantly demonising men (particularly young ones) and holding them collectively responsible for the ills of the world that would be a start. If someone is constantly holding abusive and negative attitudes towards another then don't be surprised if they embrace the first person to show them a smidgeon of kindness (even if the 'samaritan' is also abusive).
@@Gilberto90 nobody's demonising men, just the misogynistic opinions people hold. The fact that misogyny towards women pre-dates your conservative victim complex completely destroys your false narrative.
That kid needs to slow down and take a breath once in a while xD Was way more watchable at 0.75 speed. Very interesting call though. Full of actionable bits of info.
LOL, I found it refreshing to watch at 1x for a change as I have 1.25 as default and often use much faster. That's what happens when you've done a lot of research on something but know you have little time to convey a lot of information. 🤷♀
This caller is brilliant and very pedagogic, and it is a true breath of fresh air to listen to what he is explaining. BUT, as English not being my first language, and the quality of the recording and my sound system not being perfect, it was sometimes difficult to understand what he was saying on normal speed. I had to slow the video down to .75% to compensate with his elocution speed. But this intervention was absolutely worth it, and his thesis seems extremely interesting. This show really has some true gems as guests. Best regards from the other side of the Channel
Immaturity, Egotism, Lying and Stupidity are Traits that are admired, Trend/Rate and I'm sure Algorithms are based on. You see it in Advertising, MSM and the Net and for some reason we vote them in as apparently being immature equates with strength.
I'm surprised he even got a 2:1. Failed to acknowledge many factors that actually isolate young men, seemed to primarily blame it on sexualised tiktok videos and Andrew Tate then his conclusion was talk to your children when they are young so they think exactly like him (no brexit, no tories, no "misogyny") because your children thinking exactly like you is "critical thinking", apparently.
He missed a lot but it wasn't terrible. Social media is absolutely a key poison, but it's also a shift in society. More women today have higher education than men, are able to provide for themselves and are no longer at the whim of having to rely on men. Tate and others have absolutely capitalized on this, telling men that because they are men, they're superior, they "deserve" a partner regardless of how little they provide in a partnership. Even 50 years ago a woman would struggle to support herself and that power is being pulled away; and rather than grow, evolve and improve, these men would rather blame the women than their own faults, lack of aspirations and believe their gender should simply provide them superiority over women.
I really liked listening to "Alfie" - but it would have been an even more enjoyable experience, had he not (evidently) felt forced to hurry his speaking (maybe due to the interview situation) and spoken more SLOWLY, at about half the speed. Great thoughts, though!
Woke : Hypa Liberalism, identity politics, normalisation of degeneracy usual movements funded by International Woke finance capitalism. Even Black Lives Matter was funded by Bank of America and PayPal.
Excellent video and what an articulate and insightful young man he is. The crux of all these issues is that people have been convinced that their problems, failings, insecurities etc are someone else's fault. It's easy to blame others. Brexit anyone? We need to educate people into taking responsibility and be able to self-critique.
@@Bowhuntingskills feeble response in relation to the context of the video and my post. It's very telling that you jumped in using 'the left' in your response when this video has zero to do with politics.........
@@Bowhuntingskills The difference is context. When talking, for example, about the state of the economy and how that impacts working people then it's appropriate to look to "the rich", to corporate greed and mismanagement by the government. If we're talking about personal issues, personal problems and insecurities, while external factors are present, ultimately the individual must look inward and take responsibility for themselves.
Last year I met and went on a few dates with a girl who is a social media influencer who gets millions of views and goes viral. What is interesting to learn from her is how staunchly she views social media as totally fake and a job/chore to her. People apparently want to be social media influencers, but have no clue how fake their portrayal is. You might aswell wish to me iron man or mickey mouse.
Great discussion from Alfie and James; ratifies my decision to sign my daughter up to juijitsu classes. She is aware of Andrew Tate and what his movement is trying to do and she was keen to be able to protect herself physically if need be, even her trainer speaks eloquently about wanting to empower the young people, especially the girls in his classes.
Ship Of Outlaws (for the name of the call in for the three Torrie scandals)..... Since the meaning of Torrie comes from the name outlaw, you're literally referring to The Ship Of Outlaws as a ship of Torries!
Social media reminds me of the old adages about how "money talks but wealth whispers" and "insecurities are loud". People genuinely living great, fulfilling lives are just doing so and not posting about it. Gotta keep that in mind about Tate's tots.
I assume that you are talking about this danger woke movement. If so, then I agree, and pushers of this vile ideology like O'Brien should be taken off air.
It’s the counter to the culture (liberal) swing of the last few decades, compounded by imported cultures that often do not see women as equal to men and have very strict roles imposed on gender, this is obviously picked up by the younger generation. This has a far greater influence than Mr. Tate on the populous. There are no easy solutions to this , well done for opening the discussion though.😮
The algorithm will serve whatever causes you to react. If you're the tiniest bit crazy, it will continually push you in that direction to get your clicks. Once you realise this, why would you subject yourself to this? Stay off the socials, people. It's pure automated predation.
