As an Italian I didn’t know about that: I never studied the Destiny of Italian troops in the Far East. Thanks for make me discover this page of Italian history
in 1943~1945, USA, UK, France and USSR had to support Italy against Japan(France and Italy were hated each other, but france had to support italy against Japan...it was funny)
China was the Thunderdome in WWII. Everybody had some stake in it so everybody wound up fighting Japan at some point. China also had a grab bag of equipment from everyone. Some German helmets and boots, Italian and German tankettes, American tanks, you name it.
@Victor Warmflash Same here. You are not alone sir. Been studying WW2 (mainly planes) for most of my 28 years of life and had no idea Italians were involved in the Pacific at all except for Submarines maybe.
We have the tradition of being outnumbered, underequipped and put by our stupid leadership in the wrost scenarios, and still fighting to the death giving an hell of a battle In fact from the time we joing NATO and have access to better equipment and refilling line, less depending from mad decisions, we develop one of the most efficient army in the world, small but effective
@@xJavelin1 World War Two had already been going on for over 7 months by the time Denmark was attack. The Danes should have been on their guard. Although as an American I guess I'm not one to talk.
@@AdmiralBonetoPick Denmark never had a chance at defending themselves, and didn't intend to waste Danish lives in a fruitless conflict. In fact, the Danish armed forces were not supposed to have engaged the Germans at all.
@@generalzyklon3913 They could have tried though. The soldiers wanted to but the government and King were cowards. Norway fought the invasion as did other nations that were attacked.
I did hear of this war from Italian veterans living in Bedford UK. The original Italian community in Bedford was made of POWs from North Africa. In 1951 the first wave of immigrants from Southern Italy came to work in the brickworks, many men were veterans of WW2 some had been in the Folgore, some had fought in Montecassino with the new Italian Army on the side of the Allies against the Germans. As a civil servant, I had the occasion of meeting many veterans in Bedford. I once had to attend a meeting of English and Italian veterans who fought each other in Anzio and there they were drinking tea together and telling young generations that war is not fun. Those men who were trying to kill each other in Anzio were really glad to be together in peace. Only those who have witnessed the horror of war can deeply appreciate peace.
@Daniele Fabbro True, the limeys are good at betrayal. Mussolini chose to side with Germany when Woodrow Wilson in agreement with the limeys, refused to give full sovereignty to the German nation. Germany like Italy was deprived or had their colonialist territories withdrawn, in addition to vetoing Germany from military expansion and development. Idiots on YT=switch sides....
Alessio Cataldi cause they were French ruled The thing is at first Vietnam was Vichy French but the Free French fought a took over and then Japan invaded with Vietnamese Men and French the Japanese Deere outnumbered but Cause a lot of Damage.
There's a fancy restaurant in Tokyo where I used to work called Antonio's Ristorante. My boss whose name is Antonio, like his father, and his grandfather before him. Antonio (the grandfather) was the head-chef or personal chef for the admiral of the Italian navy. At the end of the war, Antonio was stationed at the Calitea that got scuttled in Kobe, Japan, and went to a POW camp exactly what Mark Felton said. Conditions were awful, but nonetheless, after the war, he decided to stay in Japan and start a restaurant which is still in business since 1944. His restaurant was the best Italian food that I've ever ate, but my experiences with Italian food are limited to some places in New York's Little Italy, and Brooklyn is still my favorite place for pizza. I know that John Lennon, and James Brown once dined in the restaurant before. If you do want to meet Antonio (the great grand son) if you dine there, he works almost everyday during dinner time. He's 3/4 Japanese and 1/4 Italian, so he looks more Japanese than Italian but he doesn't look like an average Japanese person. The 2nd generation of Antonio looks more Italian than Japanese.
This is the speciality of Mark, digging up rarely known stories, pictures and films, of these apparently long forgotten actions during WWII. This is what appeals to us followers of his channel....:)
I've always been of the opinion that the little stories are the most telling ones in the study of history - especially when they don't quite jibe with what is "commonly" known.
barefoot arizona another illuminated idiot who keeps repeating the same names. And you think that you are one of the few who “knows”. You are just spewing the same rubbish the nazis said. You imbecile.
Most British Historians, when discussing Italian military affairs, aren’t particularly kind . However, this is a very fair and balanced presentation. Thanks Frank
Now, today, the British have a dim view of Italy and Germany, nothing has changed. Italian WW2 campaigns are denigrated to please their propagandising effects. Italians on many fronts put the Brits out of action temporarily. Conclusively the Allies won by the great support of America first, then England's former colonies, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, and a few of the African nation states. I will not hypothesise what could have been possible, or invest in a speculative theory. America has been the new power since WW2 and it's a fait accompli. Brits should pay their war debts to America!
@@TimeTraveller010 the individual Italian soldier did just fine, the force however was poorly led, poorly equipped and massively overextended. It's not the fault of the individual Italian soldier, but much of the criticism is well deserved.
@@TimeTraveller010 Italian troop were repeatedly beaten buy British and could troop from there star in the war the African corp was sent to shore up the Italians in Africa . Please check you information thank you.
There you saw: the good ones were those who at first defended themselves against the understandable reaction of Germans and Japanese, to immediately after volunteer to remain loyal to the ally despite the war was by then obviously lost. The bad apples where those rushing to deliver themselves in ignominious captivity. At today in Italy we consider the switching of side, the moment our Fatherland died.
@@krisssmike3378 Bad Apples? The ones that surrendered choose the hard way. The Italian royal navy pledged loyalty to to the King , not to Mussolini. The easy way in Far East was to volunteer and fight Japan. War prisoners in Japanese camps were unlikely to survive due to starvation and hard work ( just look the picture at 13.38) Haveyou ever seen the movie "The bridge on river Kwai?" They made a choice and paid an high price. Bottom line :They deserve respect regardless what was their choice.
@@roryobrien4401 Not really it was more than 70 years ago , it may be a difficult subject for the young ones born after 1980, because they have no idea. Whoever was born before knows better : their grandparents and parents experienced first hand and told them how it was difficult and hard, regardless if you were a soldier or a civilian. War is terrible as it is , I let you imagine how worse could be when you fight for one side and your brother fight for other side.
That's a good point. What happened to those French troops in the Far East as the political situation back in France changed and changed and changed again during the war? Were they rounded up/attacked by the Japanese too?
Being an Italian I'm terribly unfamiliar with this part of history. Your video has been most informative..as always! From Giuseppe in Cape Town South Africa
Intresting story. One thing is quite argueable: deployment of large Italian submarines in the Atlantic was not disastrous at all. They performed quite well. 30 Italian subs in the Atlantic sank 109 allied shipping for over half a million gross tons losing about 50% of their force. In WW2, that was not a bad performance, on the contrary.
The narrator makes several difficult to hear commends, speaking the sentences too fast, that makes one think he said something else... In this one he mend that the Italian submarines were disastrous for the allies. Another one "Japanese Forces were soon overwhelmed" at 2:29, he means "Japanese Forces would soon overwhelme"
The Italians had some of the absolute best 'specialist' units during the war. Their combat divers were revolutionary in their use of 'frogman' tactics in offensive operations, their auto-sahara unit was the inspiration for the LRDG (and would eventually become their nemesis during the war), their Alpini troops were top notch, and their Folgore paratroopers fought ferociously against their enemies - which towards the end of the war would include themselves on two different sides of the conflict. Their sub-mariners were likewise devoted and well-trained. The Allies would never admit it, but the post-war creation of special forces units like the Navy Seals took much inspiration from the Italians. The issue with the Italians was that you couldn't win WWII with exceptional special forces and absolutely demoralized and unwilling regular units. Their industrial capacity or lack-there-of comes into play with this as well as their political, economic, and social divisions. The Italians sprung for quality in a war where quantity was the deciding factor - not to mention their prior 10 years of constant warfare in Africa and Spain.
They executed pow’s to motivate their men. They then knew that the allies would take revenge and so would fight to the death. As capture would mean certain brutal justice or death. This was told by a captured Japanese officer when asked why Australian prisoners were beaten to death or beheaded in Malaya.
Germans, Italians, and Japanese were the Axis Powers of that era. But the Italians and Japanese still fought over territory they dont own. I never really knew this until now. And I always thought the Axis guys were mostly in good terms.
Rommel, as well as other German commanders, said that the common Italian soldiers were brave and extremely competent, as well as very dependable. He said that what earned the Italian army its horrible reputation was the completely incompetent leadership they received from their officer corps.
@Aqua Fyre Dont you know the Germans had to go fight for the Italians on every campaing the Italians did? They were lazy big mouths that ran away instead of fighting . Mouths dont win battles.
Mind blowing - I have several great tomes on World War II and not one mentioned anything mentioned here in regards to Italian pacific assets or conflict.
I was always saying and it is a fact; Italians when defending, they're one of the best soldiers in world. It's no wonder their football team always play defence first :). Italian people have such mentality which doesn't give them any pleasure in conquest of anyone, but when it comes about defending... THEY ARE ONE OF THE BRAVEST. Greets from Croatia.
@DeutschwehR *"Stolen soil"* Correct. Some of that soil was indeed stolen by Frederick II and Frederick William II. Or, if we consider forcing specific groups of people off their land by dishonest bureaucratic BS "stealing" - then Königlich Preußische Ansiedlungskommission in den Provinzen Westpreußen und Posen also applies. Unluckily for the thieves, not enough time had passed and inhabitants of that land didn't really accept their new "masters". And then Germany collapsed in 1918 and thus lost their stolen property. Boo hoo. Starting another war and blaming someone else for it was *clearly* the only option.
University degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on. I respect the one with experience and knowledge of working with their hands. An honest worker ...
It's not like this episode was of any strategic importance. While it is fascinating, it just one small sideshow in a mostly neglected theater (China) in the greater conflict of WW2.
My mother in law is Italian. From Bergamo. Her father was a colonel in the Garabaldi Brigade . It enlightened me when she showed me his partisan papers along with his false name .in case they were captured by the Gestapo and tortured . I believe they were the brigade that captured Mussolini. So Italians are always characterized as cowardly or duplicitous. BUT the name of ANGELO PARIS is revered there because of his exploits against the Nazis. So there was some really brave resistance going on that gets overlooked . So thanks Angelo for all your efforts I as a English man salute you brother
I hate hearing people say that Italian soldiers were the worst of any country during the war. The Italians were very brave even when the odds were heavily stacked against them. Besides, the only reason they did poorly during the war was because they had horrible commanders who cared more about looking good in their dress uniforms than actual military doctrines and tactical and staff training.
There is also the fact that no other country than Germany expected war, and only a short one at that. Hitler promised Mussolini in 1939 that a quick war would not start for more than 3 years. Strangely, the italian leader still had no concern for training the military sufficiently before or after this fact. I don't think anyone was much worse or better in their efforts to defend their countries, they only used what they had access to.
As an Italian, this was a slice of history that I was not aware of. I admire your factual presentation. I'd also be interested in your accounts of Italian deployments in Russia and Yugoslavia during the second world war and any references to those conflicts.
My father in law was in an Italian Alpine division on the Don River north of Stalingrad. There were 30,000 "Alpini" on the Don. Only 3000 made it back to Italy. It is ironic that while my wife's family and part of my father's family were fighting on one side, my mother's family, Italian Americans, were fighting on the other. Of course they didn't know each other at the time and didn't know that they would be related through marriage in 1975. There were no hard feelings.
@@trajan75 That tends to emphasise the futility of war - at least wars brought about by the darker side of humanity. Hitler from the point of delusions of his racial supremacy and Mussolini from his delusions about resurrecting the Roman Empire with an ill equipped, out of date, poorly resourced and for the most part, insufficiently trained military force. It's good that there are no hard feelings, but who knows the true feelings of those that went through that horror.
@অমল রায় হাওড়া Jerk. It was not my father who served in the Italian Army it was my father in law. When he got back from the Russian Front he joined the Partisans. His brother, Aldo, was also an Italian Soldier. After the Italian surrender the Germans imprisoned Aldo's unit and sent them to Dachau concentration camp where he was worked to death. Now shove it in a dark place.
Here’s one that surprised me. Japanese captain picked up a few hundred British and American survivors of the battle of the Java Sea in late March 1942. Guess he hadn’t got the message yet.
It was a combination of factors, if I recall; Japan's culture of 'honour above all' that saw Death in service of the Emperor as the greatest thing a subject of Japan could aspire to, while surrender was an intolerable stain on the name of yourself and your family; the extremely harsh training regimen of the typical IJA soldier and IJN sailor; and while I can't recall for certain, I think there was a General Order issued by the Japanese Imperial Staff in 1940 that declared that No Quarter was to be given to any enemy combatant, and not to accept an enemy's surrender.
@@rogerpattube Silent Victory by Clay Blair Jr mentions a Japanese destroyer commander picking up the survivors of the U.S. submarine he'd just sunk. The Japanese commander gave the U.S. sub commander his condolences on the loss of his ship. Everything was OK until they were landed and taken over by the Army who ran the camps. I suspect that this had something to do with British influence on the IJN during its development (at least until the 30s).
As an italian, as usual you uncover stuff that was long forgotten even here, unless you consult some historian or TV randomly talks about such occurencies. Thanks for your effort.
I’m actually Italian but with a Polish surname. My Grandmother on my Fathers side was pure Sicilian. I am a student both World Wars and after watching this, it makes sense. Human nature is what it is regardless of ethnicity. I have to edit my post and thank you Dr. Felton for filing in these gaps of forgotten history.
Several people happy to mock the Italian WW2 troops, but they found themselves in an impossible situation. It's easy to be full of bravado when safely sitting in front of a computer nearly 80 years after the fact. Some Italians will have fought alongside the Japanese because of political ideology, while for some self preservation would have been the determining factor. It would have taken a very brave man to decide to fight against the Japanese on their own doorstep when massively outnumbered, particularly when the situation in Italy was far from clear. Personal politics would have only served to further complicate the situation as many if the troops wouldn't have been Fascists in the first place.
@Ian MacFarlane Mostly of them weren't fascists at all. The Royal Italian Navy and Army pledged loyalty to the King of Italy not to Mussolini. There were some fascist army units called" Blackshirts " that pledged loyalty only to Mussolini: they fought in North Africa and Russia.
@@enricol5974 It'd be absurd to imagine, (or pretend), that the only Fascists within the Italian population were the Blackshirts and other acolytes of Mussolini. While there's no question that the 1934 'election' was rigged, there still were a large percentage of Fascists in Italy, as well as significant percentages of Socialists, Communists and Royalists/ Nationalists. It therefore stands to reason that the Italian armed forces would have pretty representative numbers of people from each political persuasion, although clearly the Communists and Socialists would have to keep their ideologies under wraps.* What the respective percentages were at the outbreak of WW2, or by September 1943 I couldn't say, but there still were significant numbers of people loyal to Mussolini, (to varying degrees). *I'm sure that the situation was exactly the same in other countries - there will have been significant numbers of Germans who were anything but Nazis, just as there will have been Allied troops and civilians who will have has varying degrees of sympathy to the Nazi or Fascist regimes.
I guess I am surprised the Tianjin garrison didn't try to leverage their position for better treatment. The Tianjin concession could easily have been an internment camp for the Italians, just strip the communications and weapons. But either the leadership didn't negotiate well or the Japanese lied, but having your troops get treated like common PoWs because of some political shenanigans a world away.
@@ianmacfarlane1241 There's statistics about how many soldiers pledged allegiance to the RSI puppet government after the 8th September 1943 armistice and capture by the Germans, here (www.giovanninoguareschi.com/archivio-bibliografia/2005%20Ferioli%20saggio%20sugli%20IMI%20optanti%20Nuova%20Storia%20Contemporanea.pdf) it mentions around 10% of the military NCOs and enlisted prisoners and 30% of the officers made the pledge. Most of the soldiers did not, because they did not believe the same government who sent them to war in such a terrible shape, leadership and through useless hardships was still worth fighting for, and the Germans let them suffer through starvation. Several soldiers deserted, others joined the resistance (e.g. Enrico Martini and his alpini troops) and some joined the Co-belligerent combat groups armed by the British, some resisted to the end (the somewhat popular Divisione Acqui). Italy was basically split in half, both geographically and politically, but it's pretty safe to say the fascist zealots were at that point a vocal minority, though sizable. Of course the situation is always more complicated than we can gather from personal observations (like mine). When they took power, they forced their institutions on everyone. My great-grandfather was an employee of the railways, a socialist and son of a fairly outspoken socialist party journalist, but he had to protect his family and relatives, so he had to get the party badge just to keep his job and bring home the bread. He had to bring my grandfather, then a child, to the saturday rallies though he despised them. If you didn't have the badge, if you didn't participate in the cultural and social events the party organized for the people, you would become a social outcast and be persecuted. Many were willing to accept that so that harm would not come to their livelihood, or just to be left alone while living their daily lives. Then the racial laws of 1938, the war and so on put even more pressure on the regime to control the population, albeit with limited effect compared to what happened in Germany. This ended up helping the general populace getting disillusioned about the possibility of accepting the regime after the armistice, except where the Germans ended up occupying Italian soil during Operation Achse, in which the choice of rejecting the new regime wasn't even a possibility. My great-grandfather hardly survived the war unscathed, being deported by the Nazis to Turin, being forced to work for the Todt organisation and getting ill in the process. Terrible to say, but he was one of the lucky ones, as he managed to return home after the war.
I had the same reflexion... WTF... Japan and Italy fought each other in WW2??? I believed the only involvement of Italy in the Pacific war was the Italo-Germano-Japanese submarine Luigi Torelli/UIT-25/I-504!!! :O
@@ulrichschmidt5559 They were probably all raped and murdered anyway. The Italians should have taking as many of those crazy bushido bastards as they could down with them
The guys stationed in a far-off province to guard a radio station must have thought they were lucky to get such a cushy post. Until it wasn't so cushy anymore.
@@nodre6111 The Irish wdym? Many Irish fought an the side of the entente the same alliance Italy was a part of so why would there be Italians fighting the Irish in WW1?
Mr Felton, you are creating a superbly presented historical resource. To say you are rather good at this is akin to saying that Ronaldo is rather good at Football.
I've lived in Tianjin for 10 years and have visited the former Italian concession many times and now it's a popular tourist destination full of Italian style restaurants. After the events so brilliantly described by Mark, Tianjin was liberated by the 3rd Battalion of the 7th Division, US Marine Corps on October 1st 1945 as part of Operation Beleaguer. The US Marines received a rapturous reception from the local population. On October 6th General K E Rockey accepted the surrender of 50,000 Japanese troops stationed in and around Tianjin. However, the peace was not to last as on the same day a unit of engineers sent to clear roadblocks were fired upon by approximately 40 - 50 Chinese troops, later identified as Communists, forcing them to withdraw. Three marines were wounded. (Source: The United States Marines in North China 1945 - 1949 By Henry I Shaw Jnr)
Nolligan, now that (actions in China after formal Japanese surrender) is some more history that needs to be remembered. Hopefully, Dr. Felton can enlighten us on this sometime.
The US Marines never had a 7th Division, likely it was the 3rd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment. General Rockey commanded the 1st Marine Division at the end of the war, and the 7th Marines was one of its Regiments.
@@johnbeaulieu2404 Thank you very much for the correction, I misunderstood the source which simply referred to 3rd battalion 7th marines. Having done some more searches there's actually quite a bit of information about this available online. For those who are interested I recommend 'Tientsin at war' by Chris Hagen. www.cshagen.com/category/tientsin-at-war/
I like that one Luigi. I'll tell you another popular Italian saying from the Renaissance time that has a lot to do with soldiers' attitudes: "O Francia o Spagna, basta che si mangia" basically meaning "Whether it be France or Spain, what we need is to eat".
My Nonna was station on an Auxiliary in the Adriatic and I’ve read dozens of books regarding Italian involvement during WWII and I NEVER knew of any of this. Excited to do some research now
Il Maresciallo Bagoglio l'aveva detto nel proclama " Esse ( le forze italiane), però reagiranno ad eventuali attacchi da qualsiasi altra provenienza." E' quello che hanno fatto.
The level of detail on these vids is insane. So many battles and different events that I never even heard about is crazy why did I take me so long to find this channel ? keep up the great work.
Incredible! I never knew about this part of the Pacific Theater during WW2. I knew that Italian submarines performed shuttle mission between Japan and Axis Europe, but I never heard about the clashes between Italian and Japanese ground forces. Thank you Mark for another fantastic production. Mark Felton Productions is my #1 go to site on RU-vid! I look forward to future releases. Take care!
Mark; thanks for an amazing video. I am a WWII buff and I had no idea of this obscure episode. In an age where crappy "influencer" content is the sad rule, people like you truly restore balance to the internet. Keep the good fight!
I had not heard of the Italians in the Far East, an excellent piece of obscure yet fascinating history, thank you for researching this aspect of the war.
@@ekevanderzee9538 well i could but i had absolutely no info about this battle cause i couldnt find anything about it so yeah i couldnt really make a wiki page and i didnt want too
Very interesting and little known portions of WWII, thanks Mark. Only negative remark: despite the common refrain, Italy never "switched sides", as there was no "Italy" anymore. Fascist Italy simply lost the war (and formally surrendered in '43), while a civil war rampaged and divided the country roughly in two. The southern part generally collaborated with the Allies that had defeated the fascists (the Allies had outnumbered the Italians 4 to 1, by the way), and the northern part was split between partisan resistance and support to Nazi Germany. As history fans, it's important to be precise
It's actually even more complicated than that; the Kingdom of Italy surrendered in 1943 with the Armistice (and the Italian Co-Belligerant Forces fought under Allied command), but the Nazis installed a regime (the Italian Social Republic) which only surrendered a week before Nazi Germany (and spurred the insurrection of people of all political colors, from Savoia loyalists to Communists). As neither country technically survived World War 2 (the RSI going the way of the dodo, and the Kingdom turning into a Republic itself), and Italy went through a very half-assed process of de-fascistization (with people like Rodolfo Graziani getting involved in Republican politics) it's a distinction that escapes most.
Studiato storia col Trota? Quando ci siamo arresi l'Italia fascista era già caduta. Senza che nessuno protestasse, anzi quando il re fece arrestare Mussolini il 25/07 la gente scese in piazza a festeggiare. Quindi Guerra civile secondo chi? Il 90% degli Italiani che aveva festeggiato a Luglio e che dopo l'8 settembre tifava per gli alleati? La stragrande maggioranza dei soldati italiani prigionieri che rifiutarono di aderire alla RSI? L'Italia settentrionale è stata invasa e occupata dai tedeschi, che avevano ricevuto l'ordine di trattare l'Italia "come un qualsiasi paese occupato". Risposta di Hitler a una precisa domanda di Kesserling. In pratica prendere tutto quello utile a sostenere lo sforzo bellico tedesco e farci morire di fame. In caso di ritirata distruggere tutte le infrastrutture e le industrie. La reazione di chi ha cercato di fermarli voi la chiamate "guerra civile", dando dignità ai collaborazionisti che li hanno aiutati.
@@darioa.5381 a me sembra che rispondere in italiano in una conversazione in inglese mi sembra mancare un filino di bon ton. Ad ogni modo, è un dato di fatto che è esistito uno stato, la Repubblica Sociale Italiana, che non riconosceva l'armistizio dell'8 Settembre, e controllava buona parte del territorio italiano (tanto che si parla di un "regno del Sud" che, per contro, aveva il possesso solo di una parte minima del territorio che reclamava). Indubbiamente si trattava di uno stato fantoccio, come quello di Pétain nella Francia meridionale e di Quisling in Norvegia. Il "caso italiano" è unico proprio perchè mentre in Francia la resistenza fu, tutto sommato, un fenomeno minoritario, e in Norvegia (e, se vogliamo, in Germania e in Austria) praticamente inesistente - noi avemmo la forza di opporci, e opporci in tanti. Normalmente gli storici descrivono tali fenomeni come "guerra civile", ed è solo per un certo desiderio di "passar oltre" che invece in Italia si è poi fatto altro, lasciando purtroppo la porta aperta al riciclo di personaggi come il già citato Graziani, e i vari Valerio Borghese ed Almirante, che poi si sono fatti una "nuova vita" nell'Italia repubblicana anzichè trovarsi, come avrebbero meritato, il collo in un cappio. No, l'RSI non è stata ahimè solo un prodotto dell'occupazione tedesca; c'erano tanti (forse troppi) italiani che l'hanno sostenuta, e nel fare ciò non si sono fatti problemi a trucidare i loro compatrioti, ai quali, nel non riconoscere ciò, non facciamo che un disservizio e una profonda ingiustizia. Che poi il neofascismo abbia parlato per anni di "guerra civile" per sostenere che ci fossero anche italiani che volevano il Fascismo, beh, quello è un altro discorso. Ma credo che non bisogni lasciare che i giochini spregevoli di certa gente ci impediscano di riconoscere la brutalità del conflitto interno con il quale l'Italia si è liberata del Fascismo. Di guerra civile parlavano anche i partigiani, del resto. Forse però chi dice che gli italiani "tifassero per gli Alleati", come se si fosse trattato di una partita di calcio e non di un conflitto con il suo costo in vite umane, ha una visione troppo superficiale della nostra storia.
The Italians fought valiantly during World War 2, but they don't talk about it because history is written by the winners. I suggest you to look for how the Italians fought in North Africa, initially they destroyed the British and would have won if the Americans had not given the Sherman and various equipment. Secondly, the Italian airborne brigade Folgore fought to the end of all ammunition and supplies, while its German allies left the Italians to die in the desert to cover their escape. Both General Montgomery and Rommel had a high esteem for Italian soldiers
I am Italian and I had never, never!, heard of this story. Thank you, sir. I’ll make some research on the topic, it’s utterly unspoken of here in the country.
Dr. Felton, another outstanding video on a another rarely discussed topic! Thank you so much for dedicating your life to this kind of research. Your channel helped inspire me to create my own channel in my free time to document the history of geopolitics. Actually one of the first videos I ever did was on the rise, height, and fall of the Tianjin Concessions, including Italian Tientsin. Again I’d like to stress that without the inspiration to dig into niche topics provided by actual historians such as yourself, none of the research I’ve done and content I’ve produced would have ever been possible. This video of yours in particular is deeply of interest for me, given my previous interest in the topic, but no matter what you research you always make your presentation complete and interesting. Thanks again!
This video answers questions I had never even thought to ask. Italian performance in World War II continues to mystify me. Sometimes they seem to have fought with skill, determination and effective equipment; other times as against Wavell in the first part of the North African campaign they seemed near hopeless.
its because of the fascism form of govern , when you decide your offircers based on loyalty over competence , you end up with a mess . and considerate that fascism was not realy something that all italian embraced , they forced theyr way in power , and were way less popular than the nazi party in germany . you can see this by the fact that italy was realy fast to surrend and switch side , simply because fascism lost theyr military presence , there was noone to suppress the political opposition .
It depends on the commanders, were there were good there were great succes( like X mas, rare cases of good italian commander or the italian troops under Rommel) but mostly weren't( in africa Graziani, the commander of the fleet was a traitor and the best visconti prasca that can't even invade greece
et's say that the Anglo-American historical literature of the post-war period was not very tender with Italy. Many defeats caused by the Royal Italian Army preferred to forget them, or to say that it was the Germans who fought and won. Only in recent years has this racism tended to disappear. Ah, and something else also matters, the campaign of Italy for the Allies, the famous Axis soft belly was the longest and that gave the Allied Command more problems. Better to put Italy and Italians under the carpet and not think about them anymore.
I have many, many books and have seen countless documentary's on WW 11 and had never heard about the Italians and Japanese . Great video. Learn something new every day.
My greatuncle Inigo was a Italian Marine in Tianjin at the time he was 17 years own and he married my Japanese grantaunt Miho and after the surrender of the Japanese he and my aunt miho move to Dover, New Hampshire and my uncle took a job as a logger my uncle and aunt are still alive my aunt was 16 at the time and she pray for my uncle when the italian surrender
I love it when I see a title beginning 'The Forgotten.........' because I know that I am in for another fantastic Mark Felton learning experience! Thanks Mark 👍.
My grandfather was a former Japanese Army officer fought in China and was a chief-editor of newspaper after the war. He would probably say, "I didn't know." I believe.
Robert 29 It’s a good fight, but I’d bet on the Japanese. They had way more aircraft carriers and way more fanatic dedication. Japanese forces wiped the floor with the British on the land as well. Only the USA had the industrial might to go toe to toe with the Japanese in air sea and land combined.
@@robert2935 The British would not be able to win fighting the Japanese infront of their house while UK is located many miles away. Unlike the US the British would have to travel around either Africa or south America to fight Japan and that would take months so Japan will alwyas be more prepared and their reinforcement would arrive wayyy faster.
The British Navy can use the Suez Canal and meet the Japanese. The Japanese Navy can use the ports in occupied France. This is all hypothetical if America never entered the war.
Honestly well impressed with your productions... you have an iconic music introduction plus a voice which is clear, authoritative and easy to follow, how some major production house has not signed you up is a mystery. Follow many of your productions because its easy to understand, clear voice, not to fast or slow and makes the information easy to digest. Keep it up and one day your big break will come.
Mr. Felton, you make me wonder if all the time and money I spent earning an M.A. in military history was a waste. You regularly cover topics that I have never even heard mentioned.
I'm sure that your education was anything but sub standard. When you're talking about a global conflict that lasted six years it'd be nigh on impossible to cover everything when earning an M.A. Dr Felton is exceptionally gifted at seeking out lesser known and often obscure stories, but that shouldn't detract from anything that you've learned.
@@BloxEzio3 they really had some incompetent generals alright. But when you consider the qualification for general in the Italian army was to show how far your could stick your tongue up Mussolini's arse, the military side was not that important somehow.
Just amazing, Mark! I have been studying all aspects of WWI and WWII and, yet again you have discovered incidents unknown to myself and, I am sure, many others! Outstanding work!
episode absolutely unknown to me about the Italian war. thank you so much. another to add to many others in the tragedy of Italian soldiers guilty abandoned to themselves in foreign territory at the signing of the armistice of September 8th 1943
i kinda feel bad for those italian folks stuck in that dilemma, i always wondered if something like this happened imperial Japan was so despicable and inhumane with people who wished to surrender instead of dying its not even funny
Mark Felton is the best historian alive. I never watch WWII documentaries anymore, they're all the same. Mark brings out the things no one ever talks about. Good on you Mark, you're the best.