Japanese Natural Stones - introduction… Down the rabbit hole we go! 

Fantastic video Gregg, love the honest approach to this deep abyss of a rabbit hole and one thing is for sure, we all start from somewhere 🙌

Nice Overview Greg. It is really hard to assign grit as you are already finding! Often, they will have one feeling on the blade edge that is analogous to one grit and polish at a different grit level. All of these can be manipulated with slurry density, water concentration, and surface conditioning as I often cover in my videos. I agree it as well is very important to get it from a reputable vendor who can do proper testing before you get the stones. I keep a list around, but I am sure it is not exhaustive. I would also heavily consider sealing up some of those stones!

Excellent work, as usual. I recently descended down this hole and found myself with a much better understanding of sharpening.

Nice work mate. You tried any metallic bonded CBN yet? I'm in love with it, especially in the lower grits.

Gentle comments :) Another great video Greg, Given your great knife collection I have been looking forward to seeing your JNAT collection. I think you started it off very well with the Rabbit Hole analogy. Sadly in my case it is more like a Bear Cave at this point :( My advice to new users is the following: 0) Greg often uses the term luxury item, when he describes something as very nice to have vs. a need to have. JNATs are luxury item and you are not missing out if you do not own one. 1) Go for finishing stones as I do not believe that JNATs have much value as sharpeners and intermediate stones, and they are slower than synthetics. 2) If you experiment with a lot of polishing techniques, to bring out the different steel patterns, they are much easier to use than synthetics. If that is the case then perhaps an intermediate JNAT is in order. 3) When it comes to your final finisher, most JNATs provide a much better feel and feedback than synthetics. Also if you hate polishers that load up, than a JNAT can be a great choice. 4) They provide super comfortable edges for straight razors. 5) Talk to your seller and let them know what you are trying to do with the stone. Let's say that your friend has a stone you like, you can buy a stone from the same seller from the same mine, with the same name, from the same strata and the same color etc. and they can be two completely different stones. Its like taking a shovel full of rocks from your backyard...you never know what you are going to get till you use it. 6) There is a lot of talk in the JNAT community that revolves around JNAT edges staying sharper longer because the stones have multiple levels of grit (even though there is no such thing as grit rating for JNATs) in the stone that also gets finer during your sharpening session. This is great for polishing and straight razors, but I think the idea of significantly longer lasting edges is mumbo jumbo. Way too much pseudo science is used to try and prove JNAT edge longevity superiority. Besides, if you are into sharpening and you go all the way to JNATs...then you probably love to sharpen, so sharpening your knives when they get dull is a fun task, made even more fun when you try a JNAT finisher 7). Buy one, learn its characteristics and master it before you buy another. As someone who has too many JNATs, trust me when I tell you, if you have a finisher that puts on a good edge, buying a 2nd, 3rd, 4th is not going to transform your sharpness. 8) Enjoy the experience, the feel of the stone, the smell (they can have wonderful earthy, salt water smells), the color (some are absolutely gorgeous, I have fallen victim to this for sure), the fact that you are sharpening your knife on a multi-million year old rock made out of fossilized creatures and dust. 9) Nobody is ever a master of all stones and the louder they speak, the more likely they are just posers (not speaking about you Greg you were right on point). All you can hope to be is a master of your own stones. Now that I look into my own words I may have fallen into my own trap...I sound like a poser. 10) Never spend your lunch money on a JNAT. Scratch that, if you can afford that kind of money for lunch you can afford a JNAT :) In any case I hope this is useful. On another note, I was in DC picking up my son college and I certainly stopped by to see Ryan. He convinced me to come hang at Blade show. I am booked for Friday and Saturday and will likely see the booth of you. He knows me as Brooke and if you want to reach out to me feel free to ping him for my details. Otherwise I am not on facebook, twitter, tickety toc...All the best!

Nice overview. An excellent RU-vid reference is Japanese Natural Whetstones (JNATS), the go-to guy for these whetstones. He recommends, and tutorials lacquer application. These whetstones are intimidating, and you can go wrong buying from unfamiliar online sources, but good sellers are out there. Follow JNATS further, the “romance” and “tradition” is rewarding. Great topic; dive deeper, don’t apologize.

Thanks so much.

you did wonderful bro keep it up.. dont be ashamed even japanese people like myself appreciate it... I am half japanese

I have a Nakayama Koppa. I used it today to finish and polish B#2.

The finger stone thickness is smaller than 0.3 mms. So really thin and flexible.

Thanks for the information, I have a question. Can you use these natural stones on super steels like com s30v and up to rex 121?

My gosh this is on the same level as to how much of an umbrella term the word “katana” is. It just like googling something and then going to what people also ask it just goes deeper and deeper. Also the thing about the fake stamps resonates with me as someone who’s has extensive research in Japanese weapons, martial arts, etc. natural stones are not the only ones that get hit with fake signatures as katana can be as well. someone who isn’t a very popular smith or merchant could put the name is a famous smith on the nakago (tang) and it would sell for more money to someone who isn’t very educated on this, it could also be used as marketing sabotage for competing smiths/ merchants/craftsman.

Thanks so much for taking the time and making the effort for all of us who have wondered about these artifacts. Seems like a completely different journey for me as I have been satisfied with “just sharp”! Maybe when I start purchasing katanas, I’ll move in this direction. Enjoyable, and for sure, not a dull moment!😎

IT's not pressure that is holding the grains. They are cemented in various ways.

Eh, it could be worse. It could be 78 rpm records. What's that? 50 natural stones isn't normal?

Aloha Greg

These stones are millions of years old... Not sure where the God stuff came in😀

Amazing video, Greg! Can't get any clearer than this Just into JNS and found your video

That's all geology is, time and pressure... Morgan Freeman

The color is similar to the sharpening stone from Indonesia that I sell😊

Very nice sir. I've been sharpening straight razors off and on for 9 years now and I have 3 JNATS. I have a 6 by 2 inch Shobudani Aswedo (pronounced "oz way do" and is a finisher), An 8 by 3 inch Ozuku Mizu Asagi (Level 5 finisher) and I recently got lucky and picked up a Nakayama Aswedo which is roughly around the same size as a 6 by 2 stone. They were by no means cheap at all. Also the higher the number of hardness, the slower cutting speed it has too. Specifically with straight razors. My Nakayama Aswedo is decent fast with my Shobudani Aswedo in the middle and My Ozuku Mizu Asagi is the slowest of the 3. I could do 40 x strokes on the Nakayama while it could take 80 on my Ozuku and only 60 on my Shobudani.

Thank you for making this video and sharing this information Greg! 🙏

The discussion about grits ... right on point about setting bevels. I learned to not be afraid to go down-grit, even if that means you have to re-polish. The thing about natural stones that jumps out at me is that - it would seem that - as the stone wears away, you get different surfaces? The stone itself is layered, different strata, different imperfections. The other thing that jumps out at me in broad terms is the hobby "rabbit hole". I'm thinking about getting a new range/ oven and I haven't a clue about what's good or not. Knives and stones I can at least talk about, but ranges ...🤣? Spend $2,000 total on knives and stones and 50 BESS then wreck the food on a cruddy range? Yeah, of course! Induction? Glass top? Smart? Which mine do you get your natural range from, and from which level, or is a synthetic range better? Are there websites that compare ranges (or are those too bulky to set up?). Then there's food and meal planning and grass-fed or corn-fed, free-range or pastured, fertilized or organic, frozen or fresh, pesticided or buggy, pizza at a restaurant or take-out or delivered ... so complicated.

This was fascinating. Came up in my feed. To me, sharpening is a means to an end. Not a hobby. As such, this was very interesting, as I know little about freehand work and the stones.

Greg, my friend. You are the man, great job trying to pronounce the names, some of them were butchered, some of them were 100% on point. When the video started I started biting my nails waiting for you to get to the Maroyama Tamagoiro Suita Sunashi, what beauty. I'm very sorry to hear about your recent misfortunes in life from reading that other comment, you're doing all you can do and more, and you look a lot healthier in the face (I noticed your weight loss in the neck area especially, good job man) 21st birthday in Vegas? Your son is very lucky to have you dude. Wishing you better luck and hoping your dog heals up real good, wife gets into remission and you guys have a great time at Blade Show, you're wonderful people and this is definitely my favorite knife channel. PS: Please don't even answer guys like that Dave Smith dude, we have Reddit and Kitchen Knife Forums for BESS tests and information all over the internet, you don't need to start using a microscope and all that, (I have one and it doesn't help you sharpen, it just lets you see the edge much better in a TINY section of the blade, a microscope inspection of the whole blade road would take longer then a sharpening session...) It's not YOUR responsibility to provide him specifically requested content for free, and even after your heartbreaking explanation he has the balls to basically repeat his nonsensical demands. Screw that. You do you man, gl in the gym tomorrow.

Not to disparage this video or the channel, but when do we get the 50 BESS challenge that was made a few videos ago? Low 20's and even teens are possible. 120 is sharp, but on occasion when I have managed 50, there is a very noticeable difference in actual kitchen use. Another frustration of mine is that on various channels I've asked for USB microscope shots of the bevels at various stages, and have received "promises" that remain empty. At least here, Greg openly refused to do such, citing technical issues. There are some channels that have shown microscope shots of bevels, but they don't upload consistently. I do not have a channel, so anyone can tell me to get lost. "Sub-100" is not "a myth", and I'd like to see some videos on how to get there and how to maintain that.

Try especially with 3 lqyer knife that you go length wise to create better polish instead of on a 45 or angle. Especially in these knives in later stage of polish ect

When I buy natural stones lacquered my stones, I taped them off and the lacquer had a reaction and melted the tape not much happened just left some un-dryable lacquer on the surface I had to scape off, I found out the clear gorilla tape doesn’t melt. I changed make so much of a difference

The rest of the ones you don't love are great for traditional 3 layer knives . Because they make the soft steel dark and simultaneously sharpen the harder steel

Ya did well Greg. It is a humbling subject and everything I know is consistent with your advise. I have three main stones in my jnat collection and a bunch of naguras that give some flexibility to how each stone can be used. Thanks for making this video.

Thanks Greg and Michelle. Great overview. And thanks for putting the names on the screen!

I've avoided those due to price. They also differ quite a lot and at the prices larger stones go for, I'd like to try it out (that is almost never possible). Getting to know all the mines and types of stones to know reliably what to expect is not that easy either. I have some european naturals though (mostly Welsh). Some of them I like, some are not that good. (I'm not talking about well known stones like coticule or belgian blue). I'd love a 3x8" sized coticule but cannot justify the amount of money. The fact I hate irregular shaped stones or small like 2" wide ones makes those cost more but I just hate nothing short of "full size". I think slurry management is quite important for the few naturals I have. Sometimes slurry from a suitable nagura can really change the character of some synthetics too.

Doing is half of the battle and you did fantastic.

Mahalo for all the information brother Greg 🤙💥

Wonderful video. Thanks for sharing.

I was hot and heavy to get into J-nat Stones a few years ago, but the uncertainty of what you were getting, as well as the prices dissuaded me. The logical conclusion I came to is that it makes sense only to buy the final natural stone you use in your progression. It doesn’t make sense to me to buy coarser grade stones when you’re still going through a progression. The top end $$$$ polishing stones are apparently amazing. Why people bother is because they still leave behind a little bit of “tooth” that helps bite into the product. There are a lot of charlatans going on because of the potential $$ involved. Mr Imanishi IS one of the highly trusted dealers. Because of the “tooth” effect you would NOT want to be stropping afterwards (defeats the purpose). I’m just a few miles from Lake Ontario and have hauled home sedimentary stones from about 40 yards below the surface and they were still way to soft for sharpening...wah,wah ☹️. Nagura is a must for a natural stone.

Nice Video but you have to get yourself a real urushu lacure

This channel is not only Informative... It is Funny To !

thank you very much sir

Nice video Greg. You’ve done great! Big shout out to the my friends who added to this video!

The crow pattern. Karasu. Beautiful. And wait until you get into the Mikawa nagura options on those harder polishing stones - Botan, tenjyou , mejira, the silky Koma and finally, of course, the Tomo (same as primary stone) It’s a deep deep rabbit hole lol

Your Swedish stone guy, were can i find him? 😅