Japanese War Swords of the 20thC: Kyu Gunto & Shin Gunto 

Back in the 1990s, a student at the Aikido club where I trained turned up with one of these. Only it wasn't quite one of those. As we inspected it, we noticed that it had a folded blade ( which was Katana length ). To cut a long story short, he sent it to The British Museum to see if they could tell him anything about it. Turns out that it had a Medieval blade. The Smith's name was known ( can't remember his name I'm afraid ), but he wasn't one of the famous names. So it seems that some officers might have had the family sword re-hilted and carried that instead of the mass-produced ones.

Nostalgia plays a great rule in weapons and symbols designs.

For anyone interested: Kyu-gunto (queu-goontoe~) 旧軍刀　translates fairly directly to "old/former military sword." Shin-gunto (sheen-goontoe~) 新軍刀　translates to "new military sword." 刀　is the kanji for sword. In Japanese, it's pronunciation can make it refer to a specific type of sword. Example- this one kanji can also be "katana."

Quick pronunciation note: Kyu Gunto would be said more like "Queue Goon-Toe"

The Kyu Gunto is a really interesting visual representation of a really interesting historical period. I also think it's the most beautiful type of sword out there, maybe equalled by the Cossack Šaskas.

10:50 My grandfather fought in the Philippines during the Second World War and he had a story about a Japanese officer jumping into an American foxhole at night with his sword to try and kill the two G.I.s who were there. Unfortunately for the officer, the foxhole was too small for him to use the sword effectively and in the end the two Americans beat him to death with their helmets. My grandfather got his orders to come home the next day and the two G.I.s (who were under his command) gave him the officer's Nambu pistol as a going-away present.

You are my favorite sword/weapon RU-vidr, you don’t sound arrogant or anything. You give tons of info on whatever you are talking about, AND you know about Asian, European weapons and histories. Most channels usually only do one and sort of underrepresent the other

So a couple months ago My drummer casually mentions he has an old Japanese sword he used to play with as a kid. Me : Neat, how old? Him: like..My parents found it in the attic when they bought the house in the 80s. Me: lemme see it now! It turns out it is definitely a pre 1940s blade, though I'm not sure how old. STILL SERVICE SHARP.. (Ish* after buddy played with it like a ignorant dingus as a child) ....but the handle does look new by 1940s standards and has bakalite like material in it. Looks like a late war Shin Gunto but I Would love to someday know more about it. The handle is in very rough condition but the blade is solid and seems to be quite the opposite. I wish I knew somebody who knew how to fix it.

Though the imperialistic argument for the transition from old style to new style of sabre has some truths, there's also some practical matters. There was a big kenjutsu revival in the 1880s, leading to the establishment of the DNBK, development of kendo in the 1900s, former schools of the edo-era that survived alos enjoyed quite a recovery. In this context, there was simply quite a deal of swordmasters that were available to teach the older styles of japanese swordsmanship, while most of the kyu gunto trainers were foreign. Ever since the beginning, the french and german fencing masters had trouble trying to adapt the japanese to the european fencing, especially footwork wise (so much they even enrolled in Jikishinkage-ryu to learn how the japanese were moving). When Japan was seriously engaging in its own imperialistic pursuits, it just made sense from a practical point of view to go back to japanese teachers, who already had an extremely solid and living fencing tradition, especially since the masters of the early 20th century were the students of people who actually fought in the bakumatsu era (Takana Sasaburo - d. 1950 - and Nakayama Hakudo - d.1958 - in particular). These masters were really top-notch and it was logical to use their expertise to develop training for the officers. Those would also have learn kendo which was developped by the very same masters.

I used to live in Thailand. Found a old man near my families home that had 4 Shin Gunto in quite good condition. He offered to sell me them for the equivalent of $300 each, he probably would have taken less if I tried to haggle. Unfortunately I was a broke kid at the time so I passed. Still regret that to this day.

George Albert Cairns, in Burma, 1944, had his left arm nearly cut off by a Japanese officer's sword, but proceeded to overpower the officer, take his sword and kill him with it and several other enemy soldiers before collapsing from his wound and dying. He was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.

I once saw a website with all the types of Gunto,the Kyu,the Shin,the Kai,and even some i never saw,like a kodachi in use by tankers. A completely european looking saber,a smallsword looking police sword and so on.

From my study of the Japanese language (just casually over a couple of years- so I’m certainly not an expert) I think the pronunciation would be closer to Cue Goon-toe. Cue like a cue ball, one syllable. Interesting vid!

Just wanted to point out that the word Kyu in Japanese, meaning old, is pronounced more like "Q"

Hi Matt, I hope you dive more into the Japanse sword in the 19/20th century subject! It is really fascinating and there is alot to learn. I find it extra interesting that this is the period where the art of the traditional Japanse sword has been revived. This skill was almost completely lost as swordsmith as a profession almost died out after the meiji restoration. The Japanse military had several programs to train more smiths in the traditional way of making swords, like in the old days. These smiths that worked in the traditional way were part of the Rikugun Jumei Tosho(RJT) program and received tamahagane from the government when making swords for the military. These traditional swords from this period are called Gendaito and the skill and swordsmiths that has been revived during the pre-war period continues to this day. I personally only collect Shin/Kai-gunto with Gendaito blades from interesting smiths. These are becomming more and more recognized by the Nihonto world and even getting papers these days, since after all they are true Nihonto but due to their ww2 history it is still a taboo in Japan. There are also a few ww2 smiths that became so called 'Mukansa', meaning someone who doesn't have to proof his work anymore(a master). A Gunto from this period can have the following blade configuration: - Showato: Non-traditional, massproduced arsenal blade. All blades that have a stamp(exept star stamps) are showato(non traditional) and indeed oil quenched. However there are some higher quality showato blades that clearly show signs of folding etc, if the polish is right. - Gendaito: fully traditional made blade, usually by government accepted smiths. However many of them also worked for private orders. You can clearly tell the difference if a sword is Gendaito, due to water quenching the Nie and Nioi crystals are more clear and the hamon comes out more natural versus an oil quenched blade. - Nihonto: You can also find an older family blade in a gunto fitting(koshirae). I hope you find this interesting :)

I have a Kyo-Gunto, very nice saber, very small hilt, the grip is wire wrapped black horn. I have seen them with the same grip style, but with a walnut grip. The fancier version's have a longer grip similar to the the Kyo-Gunto, except they have a white stingray covered grip.

My 1st of now 2 swords was a shin gunto I got from my father when he passed in the mid 1980s. I'm sure he got it at a gun show. I've always loved it. Unfortunately when I got it I was a 16 yr old boy who'd just seen Conan so you know it got abused. I wore out the silk wrap and lost the ivory pin that held the handle on. It now has a new handle I made from birtch and wrapping I made from climbing webbing. The inside of the metal scabbed I lined w.some nylon cutting board material so it doesn't dull when drawn. She still cuts bottles nicely. Funny side note: I called it my katana until about 6 mo ago when I finally learned better. Anyway, very happy to see Matt cover this one! Thanks Matt!

Ian (Forgotten Weapons) just did a video a couple days ago on the Type 95 Shin Gunto. His publishing company is apparently putting out a reference book on Japanese military swords from the 1870 to WWII period.

I have recently been looking at these. Perfect timing. Wow.

The western-style swords were definitely carried in pretty large numbers right to the end of the war. If you look at pictures of officers surrendering their swords at the end of the war you will see a lot of those hilts in the piles (the hilt being the easiest difference to see at a distance).

Shingunto are fascinating cause they reflect their history so well. A modern sword, of modern materials with modern techniques but a call back to their history because of the politics at the time. Imagine if mussolini had a modern Gladius version made for Fascist Italy as well. Those types of sword have more value do to their origins than to what they are on their own.

Holy bloody hell. I have seen this sword before, but not in that coloration. It's brass, with a creamy white sharkskin hilt, and no acid-etch hamon. My father told me it was a cavalry sabre captured in the War of 1812. He was wrong. It has to be a kyu gunto. He died thinking it was European.

There's also another reasons why this shin gunto might be shorter than an average katana: because EVERY officer had to have a sword, it wasn't a bad idea to have a sword that was made to be suited for their job in the military. I.e, tankers or pilot officers had shorter swords than infantry officers so they could store it in their vehicles. I also heard that Military Police officers preferred lighter swords with fullers since they would rarely use their sword other than parade purposes. I own an infantry officer's shin gunto that was made to be heavier and sturdier than other shin gunto's of the time. Hope this helps a little.

I recently picked up a sword made by a licenced smith from Seki, Kanetoki, in the mid-70's. This same smith started making swords as a teenager in WW2 working for his father, another smith, making Gunto.

Great video about a very interesting topic. A student of the japanese language it hurts though Matt prounces Kyu. English is not my first language so I cannot give a good advice how it sounds in English but maybe just maybe the English Q should be a close equivalent. Besides that minor cosmetic flaw (it does not make the video really worse) a really great video as I have already said.

I'm really digging the recent (well relatively recent) expansion of Chinese and Japanese weapons. Would love to see more, esp the pole arms as well. Great job Matt!

I keep waiting for him to hold up a sword an scream "there can be only one!" Perhaps I am alone in this train of thought...🤪

Excellent video.

Love the new ending

The type 32 is a solid and proper and modern battle saber, Id LOVE to see you review one!

Man, my very old neighbor has one of these in a very bad rusted condition. He's using it as a gardening tool, mostly to unroot weeds. Salam from Indonesia.

A World War II buddy of my grandpa had a Shin Gunto he took as a souvenir during the war. He used to get it out and show it to us kids, however, he wouldn't let us touch it because it was sharp. Was a very cool sword!

I had one back in the 80's, picked up for what would be about 150 pounds. Factory blade with smith's/inspectors signatures on the tang, oil quench. Made in 1943 when shortcuts were starting, "rayskin" was cellulose, and the blade edge was dulled in the area the habaki slid over to make fitting easier.

There is an interesting note about antique Japanese firearms. The Portuguese traded with Japan, introducing them to matchlock guns. There was no further development of Japanese guns until they were introduced to cap and ball percussion muzzleloaders. They completely bypassed snaphaunces, flintlocks and wheellocks.

I love the Kyu Gunto. Its a beautiful sabre and I wish it was more regarded and talked about. There is next to nothing about it and it seems like the Japanese want to forget it even existed.

I absolutely adore the Kyu Gunto with a long handle. I'd love to own one, but they are way out of my price range unfortunately.

Nice T-shirt my man!

Ya need to hook up with Ian from Forgotten Weapons and do some test cutting on some Ma Deuce barrels! ;)

Matt, just as an FYI, kyu isn't pronounced kaiyu, you pronounce it exactly as it's spelled and run the k and the y together with no other sound between. This applies to all Japanese words that start with a consonant followed by the letter Y like gyu and ryu. So, not A sound, no E sounds, nothing in between the first letter and the Y.

I would love a video covering stories of sword use in the wwII pacific theater, would that be possible?

Thanks for the lesson 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

I owned one in the early 80's, it was one, still at school I saved for over half a year to get one, all I can remember is it was incredibly heavy for its size.

@scholagladiatoria Britain and Japan were naval allies from 1902 until the 1920's with the Anglo-Japanese Naval Agreement. The original IJN was, in large part, modeled on the Royal Navy. The surviving Japanese pre dreadnought battleship Mikasa, Admiral Togo's Flagship at the battle of Tsushima, against the Russians in 1904, was built in Britain.

well matt, about the point where you mentioned about how they were worn in 12:30, actually i saw a lot of photos of indonesian soldier in the japanese occupation era worn their shin gunto with the edge backward (upward) on ceremonies. indonesian war hero, Gen. Soedirman famous photographs are always shown him wearing shin gunto in such a way

One tip, Kyu is pronounced like Q

You probably know this already, but 9:32 "nagasa" is the blade. Word you were looking for was "nakago" for tang. Cool swords!

My dad has a 'barn knife' made from a cut-down Japanese saber from WW2 that looks different than each of these examples, a Type 32, I think. I sure wish it wasn't cut down to ~10 inches, and we had the scabbard. My mother's father fought in the Pacific, so that is probably the source. He also brought back a Chinese Dadao in original condition, among some other things.

Something I always found crazy is that the Japanese didn't stop making swords until the end of the second world war despite their small stock of steel.

In the Kenjutsu Kyohan (1909 edition) you See the mix of western and japanese methods of swordsmanship united in kind of a Katate-kendo (onehanded). But it is mentioned, That who masters the onehanded Techniques, can do them with left or right or both hands. So essentially twohanded techniques with the kyu gunto (the halflang edition which has a longer grip)

Nagasa = blade length Nakago is the tang. Great video.

I’ve seen images of Japanese officers carrying Kyu Gunto in WW2, so it doesn’t surprise me that they were still in use.

During the ending of Shogun period to Meiji Period, Japanese army was modeled after French Army but the navy was modeled after the British. Especially, Japanese could identify more with the British as a similar island country.

Just to add something on pronunciation of Kyū Guntō, “Kyu”, transladed as “old” is pronounced like Key followed by an elongated U (so Keyuu), while in “Guntō” , translated as military (gun) sword (tō), the U is pronounced like in “blue”, and the final O is elongated (Gontoo).

What I'd give to see Ilya and Matt from @ThatWorks interpret this thing.

Correction on Japanese calendar eras, Shōwa doesn't mean "modern," it specifically refers to the reign of Emperor Hirohito, from 1926 to 1989.

thanks I always wondered about that, in the photos of the japanese-russo war they have those swords, then WWII the swords really changed again.

Your mention of a two-handed version with a knucklebow furrowed my forehead; "How did they manage that?" I did an image search and sure enough, there were plenty of examples. What struck me is their... embryonic appearance, I guess it could be called. They seemed to be functional but lacked the typical Japanese flourishes, as if metalworkers had been instructed to make them and turned them out in a hurry. They look quite ugly to me. I wonder if the appearance helped the decision to go back to a more traditional style.

The equipment of the pre Civil War US Army has a lot of French influence in its design. Even types of units had French roots, the Zouave volunteer regiments of the early War years are evidence of that influence. Only seems natural the Japanese would look to the same sources in the formation of a modern military.

Shared.

I have a Kyu-Gunto. It's in similar shape as the one you have, just missing the tassel. I have always wondered about it's specific history and value.

I thought I mentioned for those that are interested in Japanese Saber Fencing back in December of last year a book called "Franco-Japanese Military Sabre and Bayonet" was published. It contains English translations of three larger Saber Fencing manuals (1889,1894, and 1915). I'm a few days away from receiving my copy but I would consider this huge for anybody interested in reconstructing Japanese Saber or interested in the intersections between Historical European and Historical East Asian Martial Arts. Before the publication of this book, the only translation we had was Kendo Kyohan from 1909 which was more of a mini pocket manual for soldiers and not in-depth enough for proper reconstruction of this Saber Style. Though I haven't gotten to read and go over it yet I'm hopeful that this publication will be able to allow HEMA and HEAMA practitioners to be able to practice this mostly forgotten saber style.

I own a Nihonto katana, it "only" has a 61 cm nagasa but it in no way feels like a one handed sword because of its weight and intelligent mass distribution. If it was any longer, it would not have been nearly as fast or as fierce as a fighting weapon. The blade alone weighs 680 grams even with a bo-hi/fuller. It is also forged from tamahagane, which unless treated very specifically makes for brittle blades. This one zings like a lightsaber in two hands but with enormous authority and could easily chop multiple bodies or tree branches without damage. It may be a "Dotanuki" though, because it has visible niku and flared kissaki, and is therefore not typical of a Nihonto katana.

"you are gonna jump into a trench and... Uhm... Hope no one with a loaded gun is looking at your direction"

Really interesting. The jujitsu dojo i train at uses the naval kata from WWII as a basis for it's sword practice. I forget the Japanese name, but it translates as "8 Cuts". Possibly the original owner of that second sword practised the same Kata.....

I've known about the Kyu Gunto and I think it's an interesting weapon. Were there any, or could you make a Kyu Gunto with a traditional Japanese blade (as opposed to the modern machine imitations)? How is the balance? What's your opinion of the Kyu Gunto vs other naval swords?

Was just talking about these.

Nice to see you've got the rough pronunciation of tachi down... Clearly kyu is next on the list. :P But great video.

+scholagladiatoria *The 新軍刀 **_Singunto,_** or New Military Blade, essentially a revival of the 小太刀 **_Kodati_** of the Kamakura era, had mounts compatible with the swordblades of the Samurai epochs,* unlike the 旧軍刀 _Kyugunto,_ or Old Military Blade. Up to 1945, the Yasukuni Foundry, under the auspices of State Shintō (国家神道 _Kuniuti no kamunagara_ ), mass-crafted officer's swords for the Imperial Japanese Army using pattern forging in customarily-smelted jewel steel (玉鋼 _Tamahagane_ ) and water-quench heat treatment in contoured clay.

I have a Type 32/M1899 infantry saber and an officer's shin gunto (with the maker's name on the tang, that I haven't been able to decipher, between the rust and not knowing anybody that knows Japanese, let me know if you want to have a go at reading it/asking whoever you're learning about Japanese swords from to look at it) that my grandpa brought back from serving in the Pacific in WWII. I think he won 'em from a Marine in a poker game, he was an Army truck driver, the highlight of his time in the Army was getting to drive McArthur once.

サーベル式 Sabel, Saber in Dutch. Kyu Gunto means "Old style military sword",.when these Sabel style Gunto were first issued in Meiji period. Shin Gunto means "New style military sword" was first issued in Shouwa period.

nice shirt!

I picked up a bare Japanese blade and sheath at a flea market. My Japanese daughter-in-law translate the figures on the tang that declared it was a "Koa Issen" blade, made in Manchuria. Further research showed that traditional Japanese blades broke in the cold of Manchuria. When Japan took Manchuria, they acquired a source of better quality steel, and set about making better blades. They used a high-carbon steel tube with a mild steel core and forged a laminated blade that was probably the finest semi-mass-produced military blade ever. The tip on my blade had been totally eaten with rust, so I shortened it, reformed the tip, made a grip, tachi, and sheath, then polished an edge on it. It's 22" of razor blade.

I`ve handled a few of these that had a habaki and a grip long enough for two hands !

I've got a real one like the first sword you showed

Unlike the government issued NCO swords (Type 95 Gunto), Officer swords were actually defined by a certain type of sword mountings , blades themselves varied greatly.

I've known some fellow soldiers who served way b4 my time & fought in Okinawa. From what they told me the Japanese most certainly did use their swords there. At least thats what they said. So grain of salt & all that. Lol

One detail Matt: gunto is pronounced as GOON-toh......literally means military sabre (single edged blade).

Nice tshirt... 🤘😷✌️

How is the handling of the kyu gunto? Does the blade taper distally on account of being a one handed Sabre?

I have a Type 95 sword.

I've got a longer blade in shin gunto hardware but it was clearly made before the war, around 1900 or so, and forged. How can I find out more about it?

While officers in Japan's current Self-Defense Forces don't carry swords, the ceremonial/parade style swords I'v been able to find pictures of indicate that they transitioned back to European-style swords with handguards. It is sad that the imperialistic nationalism of a previous time keeps the Japanese military from being able to use styles of sword native to the country because they have bece associated with aggression and conquest. Or maybe they just think the European style looks better for ceremonies. Though I bet a lot of people in Japan and the surrounding region (esp. China) would freak out if they used Japanese style swords in any military function.

Could you give any useful links on the Russian-Japanese war bayonet charges, cause, quite frankly, the version I have heard is that Japanese prevailed more on the technical side of the spectrum, but mostly lost in the good old melee.

the nirvana shirt cracks me up idk why

"Carried on carrying it." HAH! :) Making a shorter sword really does make sense given how it was likely to be used. That is very interesting. And, because it'll bug me otherwise: 60 cm= 24 in. However: 60.0 cm= 23.6 in or 23 5/8 in.

I've studied Toyama Ryu Gunto Soho, (Toyama School of Military Sword Methodology) it's very much no-frills kenjitsu. The Japanese army developed the method after having problems with the Cossacks in Eastern Russia and against guerilla fighters in the Philippines. Both the Cossacks and the Filipinos were fighting with swords and ambushing officers. The "style" was thought to give the officers a fighting chance. There are only 8 kata (forms) and Toyama schools have an emphasis on tamashigiri. Toyama Ryu gave birth to Nakamura Ryu Batto-do which is also a very awesome art. Good video! Cheeers! :) Edits: "Nagasa" is the blade, "nakago" is the tang. :) They were more frequently used to chop up prisoners of war, as officers were always trying to one up each other's sword skills.

short sword is also fits well in aircraft cockpit

Hello I have a very similar one for my grandfather's father, but the handle is golden, and the tip of the sword cover is also golden, I'm told it was used by ottoman officers, mad in Germany, I think the blade is replaced because the tip is pointy and doesn't cut, probably ceremonial blade, can I contact you for further info?

I think the swords were used during banzai charges. As those tended to result in the deaths of the soldiers conducting the charge, sword use was probably a one time thing for whatever officer led the charge.

Wouldn't it be much more accurate to say that Japanese Swords universally have a 'ricasso' before the machi, covered by the habaki? typically Japanese swords have about an inch or so of blunt steel before the blade, above the tsuba, but it is covered by a brass fitting.

I've always wondered if there are any japanese that practice kyu-gunto fencing....

That Kyugunto looks to be an army parade saber type.

Huh, now I know what sword Leonardo carries.

I could be wrong, but I believe that the name given to the shin-gunto here is incorrect. Matt is an expert after all, but shin means "true" in that a regular gunto is what he is likely holding. There were however, rare shin-gunto introduced near the end of the war, the difference being that a "true" gunto was made from cut down family swords passed down as heirlooms passed down from earlier swordsmiths. But hey, he may know his stuff better than I do.

Seems from the comments that you should have talked to Raphaelo about Japanese pronounciations ;-)

Shin gunto is the way to go. They never shouldve abandoned the katana, imo. :)

Last year there was a story in the local rag about some guy who had gone nuts with a 'Samurai Sword'. They had a picture of the thing, and it was clearly a Shin Gunto. I pointed out to the author it was a bit dismissive of Japanese history, and borderline racist to call every sword from Japan a 'Samurai Sword', but no correction was made. Seems the uneducated want to propagate myths and talk in language the uneducated understand, rather than the truth.

Europeans: Japanese swords are like sabers Japanese, taking notes: go on

"Caillou-gunto"

A lot of confined jungle warfare. I wouldnt want too big of a blade to swing around.