Jawsh being BASED (talks about Twitter Drama with Dream and Stans) 

I know this is a long video but you can just put it on in the background :) I think a lot of what Josh talks about here is very true and important! Which is why I left so much stuff in so you can get the full picture. Still I don't think any hate should be directed to Dream or anyone involved in this. Have a great day everyone :)

To anyone else who is saying Jawsh was being too harsh, let me remind you that the people he were being harsh to was the same folk who tried to ruin multiple youtuber's lives.

Josh is extremely well informed, he is a funny, and intelligent person. And I have to give him mad props for standing his ground and not backing down when idiot kids are trying to run him up against a wall

Jawsh: deep discussion on why stans are a problem. Chat: Mcrib is back

I'm starting to think that some people just don't know the difference between stans and fans. Some of the people I saw defending "good stans" were literally just describing fans. Fans are not stans. If someone just likes to watch a creator, maybe admires that creator, perhaps even creates the occasional fan art, and doesn't fixate unhealthily on a creator or practice destructive behavior related to this fixation, THEN THEY ARE NOT A STAN. They are a fan. Jawsh wasn't talking about them. He was talking about toxic stan culture. It's very annoying that people are unable to make that distinction.

At least jawsh and Dave have good points about a stans.

Jawsh: "Stans are bad and use mob mentality to attack anyone that they don't agree with" Stans: "We don't do that" *Proceeds to uses mob mentality to attack jawsh for criticizing stans*

Jawsh needs to stop spitting, he's gonna flood my room with facts.

That whole "drama" got me like: Why are you booing him? He's right.

The name 'stans' used to be a negative word, an insult, and was even created as a derogatory term. Where was the turning point that you cannot say all stans (stalker + fans) is bad? Is it not bad? Do people not understand it or are there just so many that you can't offend them without being drowned?

I wish people would understand that the word "Stan" was originally used in reference to the Eminem song about an obsessive, mentally ill fan that kills his wife and himself, the word stan itself comes from a cautionary tale about obsessing over an idol

Jawsh didn’t let the attention go to his head like Dream. Jawsh stayed humble while Dream was being narcissistic and childish. From an ex Dream fan. Always appreciating Jawsh.

The way that Jawsh is handling this situation is perfect, he is wording everything perfectly and just generally being incredibly intelligent on this whole issue, MY STREAMER.

This is why, as a teen who has autism and has hyperfixations, i try to keep my focus on fictional characters. They're not real, they don't enforce opinions or politics like a person would, and are part of a story. You shouldn't treat real people like you would fictional characters it's unhealthy af.

I'm sorry but if Dream really didn't want people to go and attack Jawsh then why didn't he just DM him? Would have accomplished the same thing except his fans wouldn't have attacked him as much.

How is he too harsh? He's confronting people who doxxes people based on obsession.

This made me think about a scientific comment that I read a while back, on the brain's perception of fame. We have evolved to live in societies of somewhere between 30 and 50 people. Scientists speculate that Stone Age people rarely kept track of more than 150 people in their entire lives, and those where all people they knew, physically. The thing with famous people is that we cognitively have a very hard time with the reality of them not actually being in our lives, despite seeing them, hearing them and to a certain extent, having a slight perception of their personalities. Our brains think we know them. This might be part of the explanation to why some people become stans. If you're a person who tends to become excessively dependent on people you admire, it might be a good idea to remind yourself every now and then that you don't actually know your idols.

Here's my small essay: As someone who has hyperfixations, they are not an excuse to dox people or cross people's boundaries or attack others or be otherwise toxic. I can't stand people using it to defend the toxic parts of stan culture (this is using the wider used and original definition of stan, if you somehow need a clarification with this context). Hyperfixations don't cancel out common courtesy. Additionally, when big content creators refuse to set proper boundaries and call out toxic behavior spreading throughout their stans, it affects smaller creators bc those people assume that they can act the same way towards other creators who might not be as welcome to it. So when the smaller creator wants to set boundaries bc the stans' actions are rightly making them feel uncomfortable, the stans take that as an attack on their identities as "stans" and the smaller creator is hit with a barrage of attacks and backlash that they aren't equipped to handle. Like what's happening here with Josh (except he's one of the lucky ones who can handle it). It shouldn't be drama to set boundaries, or to criticize something you don't like. But these people who were spoiled take any criticism as a rejection and attack and it can overwhelm and hurt smaller creators who might not be as jaded or strong against intense backlash. Creators shouldn't have to live in fear of their fans, and big creators fostering or feeding into the ugly parts of stan culture traps the smaller creators in their circle in it as well (just look at mxmtoon and minx and addison rae, they each interacted only for a short bit and still get asked/harassed about people from dream & co.). It's courtesy to help smaller creators, and that includes guiding and calling out toxicity in your own circle that could otherwise be carried over to them.

As someone who has been in stan culture for 7 years, Josh is completely correct. Another big issue that Josh didn’t point out is the actual dictionary definition of the word of stan and how it isn’t a good thing. Stans, by default, are bad things.

JAWSH being based? He do be spittin facts tho...

Imagine being on trial for murder, and there’s so much evidence stacked against you and your defense is just “You’re an idiot”

its not that dream is inherently bad but he has definitely formed some kind of superiority complex bc he 100% knows how much he influences his fans

Don't forget that dream stans tried to justify dream selling a water bottle with a smiley face on it for 50 bucks

I side with Jawsh on this too, from what I watched of Dream, I think he could be an ok dude, but knowing the power of his fanbase, I think has got to him. He could honestly send out an army if he wanted to, and honestly, that's the problem. There is no control, there are no boundaries. I think a lot of RU-vidrs and not just dream need to set boundaries with their fans, like Carson did. Yes, Jawsh did use some harsh words, but it's still the truth, and I understand how he could get angry, he has every right to do so. Stans can be toxic, and the dream stans I have interacted with are toxic, but there are some very nice people in the mix. Yes I've seen the vid of dream explaining his side of it but, I feel like he beat around the bush with some of the points, and he didn't take responsibility as if he were being petty. But at some point, something had to be said. If you're a normal fan, you are a FAN, if you are overly obsessive and creepy/stalkerish about it then that is STAN. Know the difference

dream stans looking up to dream have the same mentality described in the saying, "if ____ jumped off a bridge, would you?"

Reminder that Josh doesn't want you to praise him for this, don't blindly 100% believe him on everything, that is the opposite of what he wants. He wants people to do their own research on this, make their own opinions, and be better.

It boils down to “don’t listen to me because I’m a streamer, listen to me because I care about all of you”

Jawsh: serious talk about stan culture and its effects on people Sub alerts: b o i n g !

From a psychologists perspective, Jawsh is absolutely correct. These people are inflicting trauma upon themselves by obsessing over their parasocial relationships, they are deluding themselves by failing to confront reality and that causes trauma.

I've never really liked Josh much, but his maturity in this situation has made me respect him a lot.

I don't think josh is being harsh at all? It's more like he's being STERN. And blunt. Which is very respectable imho. He doesn't beat around the bush. Idk maybe its a culture thing. I understand western twitter is more sensitive i guess

The fact that Josh acknowledges that he might be wrong immediately puts him ahead of the other commenters.

Dream has become so self-centered and egotistic. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth, and these dream stans are so oblivious to it. Dream is so incredibly aware that his stans will be on his side and obsess over him no matter what he does, and he takes advantage of that.

I feel like the definition of stan was lost. Stan= Obsessive Fan= Enjoy their content

The stans are kids that their parents did everything they wanted to

Jawsh criticizes toxic stans in general Dream stans: We're gonna prove your point

this is some nice podcast right here

You know, I'm so used to the babyrages that it genuinely shocked me how intelligent and insightful Jawsh is.

Both sides had some good points imo but I finally deleted Twitter after this haha

I'd like to add my own piece on this; i'm autistic. I'm very neurodivergent, and I do hyperfixate on my favorite things a lot. But where i'm offended is that people are using that as an excuse to do terrible, shitty things to content creators, and it makes neurodivergency look like a joke. If you treated your friend like shit, and then they call you out for it, you just can't use the excuse of "look, i'm neurodivergent..." that is honestly a very disgusting thing that a lot of people do to make _themselves_ look like the victim and manipulate the situation in their favor. Don't do it.

I still can't believe dream responded to his well structured argument with "you're an idiot."

The worst part about this is that all these Minecraft RU-vidrs have had these obsessive and toxic stans build up and none of the RU-vidrs/streamers have said anything about it. Dream never apologized when his stans started bashing him on Twitter.

At first I was kind of upset with him using the term mentally ill in his tweet, but after hearing him explaining in more detail I think Josh handled this incredibly well and I agree full heartedly

I find it ironic how dream says stans are "helpful and wholesome" when he has one of the most toxic online fanbases ever

Jawsh: *"connect four with ugandan knuckles"* Also Jawsh:

I like how dream tried to change the definition of the word stans so he could continue to ignore that rough part of his fanbase

He was also spitting facts that the people dream hangs with are just bandwagoners, he’s just telling truths that the 15 year olds can’t comprehend

as a person that has suffered with ocd for nearly my entire life and hyperfixates, i know what it is like being overly obsessed with something or someone. And honestly, it's not healthy and whatever it is that you're trying to get away from by being in such a cult-like community, will only come back 10 times worse. It's not about the people or things you like, it's about feeding into something so much as an escape from your problems that is the root to the toxicity. Josh made many points, and honestly I can see that he was harsh, but he wasn't rude. His statements had a lot it and it's a topic that could be thoroughly discussed. But that will most likely not happen because you don't really listen to reason when it becomes a threat to your very newfound "identity" or escape.

i like how dream implied that he didn't pass middle school english

This is why I’m no longer subbed to Dream. He feeds into/can’t control his own rabid fan base and acts really immature when he gets called out on it.

The only Stan I like is Stan lee

So I'm a mentally unstable teen who watches and enjoys dream and his friends. At first I was upset at Josh and immediately hopped on the hating Josh trend. Now looking at this, what I did is exactly what he is talking about. I am disappointed in dream for responding the way he did and disappointed in some of his friends for responding the way they did. I still don't really like Josh's original tweet but I am glad I watched this. It really cleared things up. This drama is dumb :()

realist thing i’ve ever heard: “twitter is a platform”

Dream be like: words big jawsh big dumb smart eueheueehu

As someone who was an obsessive fan (i was never creepy or went too far but I did do some stuff im not very proud of) for a pretty long period of time, he is right. Ive had a hard time accepting this, due to me knowing i was part of the problem. The thing is, stan culture isn't only harmful for the creators who are being stanned, its also incredibly harmful for the young teenagers who are doing so. From personal experience, when i was in my most "stan" days i guess you would say, I was severely depressed and my social anxiety was at an all time high. Because of home issues and being almost completely isolated, I clung to the internet as my only source of escapism. The content creators that i did watch at the tine were genuinely really good people and watching their videos really did help me feel safe and like i wasnt alone. Things started to get bad when i joined the fandom, which only worsened my anxiety. People constantly fighting and belittling each other simply because their opinions differed from one another was emotionally exhausting. Living in that environment online, became a chore and the internet wasn't my happy place anymore. Yes, I can't deny I didnt have some fun, some of the most fun times ive had in my entire life. But still, I was spiraling and not until i deleted twitter, dealt with my issues, and didnt interact with any of the fandom did i start to feel better. Idolising someone when they are mentally unstable is something i see in a lot if young people. Clinging on to a person that isn't even a reality in your head and is just simply a distraction and character that is perfect is something I did and still catch myself doing. Stan culture is just sad to me, because deep down everyone gets hurt, the stans, the content creators and just anyone that gets in the way of stans. A lot of them arent bad people in my eyes, deeply flawed people who are incredibly selfish and ignorant yes, but i dont think evil by any means. Anyways this whole situations is stressful and I hope all of yall can get away from all the drama and just chill. :)

"Smart people second-guess themselves" I always thought it was more of an anxiety thing so hearing this from someone else is actually reassuring.

Stans: We aren't that bad! Also Stans: *attack, doxx and harass people who don't agree with them, don't enjoy the same content, have different opinions, don't like the same content creators* Stans: We aren't bad! Seriously though, the Stan community is extremely toxic and, most of the time, go too far with most situations. Of all people I've met, in the sense of communities, stans can be the worst kind of individuals you can actively meet on the internet. I've never met such hateful and rude people in my life (over the internet, duh) when you have a slightly different opinion than them or conform to what they deem as right. There's no arguing or having a civil conversation with them, because you're wrong just because they say so.

Dream doesn't want to upset his 14 year old girls because they make his wallet bigger each day.

I can understand why so much lunch club and friends don't like stan culture, especially after the Cooper water bottle incident ehhh still gives me chills thinking about it

Shifting the definition of Stan from “stalker fan” to “super fan” is like changing the definition of murderer to a kind person.

This aged so gracefully

I would listen to a jawsh podcast

It’s obvious that a lot of people who call themselves “Stans” don’t know the origin of the term, otherwise they wouldn’t be calling themselves that, or arguing that there are “good stans”.

Josh being based? I think you just mean Josh speaking his mind, because this man is always based

One dangerous counter argument I've seen both in the Stan communities and elsewhere is how there's no way such things can be bad for those vulnerable individuals because it does help them feel better and it makes them part of a community, ergo it must be good. That's a very dangerous wall to stand behind, because just hearing it at face value it does sound like it would be totally uncalled for to tell a mentally vulnerable person that 'its a bad thing to do something that makes you feel better and makes you a part of a community'. The reality is, we have seen countless times again and again how this mindset and defense is the exact sort of thing that predatory and exploitative communities are based off of, sometimes with much more drastic implications. As one of the most extreme modern examples, the Manson family took in vulnerable individuals, made them feel loved and part of a community, and directed them to defend the family's values against others who would be critical or stand in the way of it. While that's obviously drastic, in a watered down sense it is still comparable to the core issues of Stan communities: Eschewing your self-worth and replacing it in favor of idolization of an individual or community *always* has the potential to leave someone vulnerable to suggestion and manipulation that can either damage themselves or others in the long run. It's great to be a part of a community of like-minded people, but it's extremely dangerous to not first have a grounded sense of self that can still view things critically through your own personal lens as an individual that isn't beholden to any group before making a decision or taking an action.

Like how he says he doesn’t like people blindly agreeing with him.

i think that stans have such strong absolute emotions that they channel it in unhealthy ways, and it results in a mob/cult-like mentality when everyone is in an echo chamber of the same opinion

Jschlatt has Stans but the difference is they just try to cancel him

my respect for Josh has increased so much. one of the most humble things you can say is admitting you could be wrong and accepting that others have different opinions than you. that is mature and humble and i respect that.

21:13 Play Among *troll face* Play Among Us *troll face* - CallMeCarson

Idk who this josh guy is or what happened but I agree with him wholeheartedly. He really hit the nail on the head when he said that people with mental issues are only doing themselves a disservice by involving themselves in a community that uplifts their issues and gives them a pass, rather than help them through it. In my opinion, people who use mental illness as a shield for criticism are the worst kind of people.

Regardless of how you may feel about stans and/or the situation, you have to admit that Josh spoke about the issues, and handled the fallout with class, honestly, and dignity. And it really says something about people when they can't think of any other insults to throw your way or a counterargument, so they just start mocking the fact that you know how to write and have a vast vocabulary.

My streamer is based😈👌🏻

"If it's not short they're not going to read it" This has never been more true lmao

Jawsh genuinely discussing about stans: Chat: play mario

Jawsh: Stan culture is pretty toxic Stans: Attack and be toxic to Jawsh

Dream is currently a part of what I call the leafy mentality. He is completely oblivious to how his fanbase acts around other people and only sees them when they are interacting with him so when he decides to insult someone he doesn't realize that his fans will see that as a declaration of war. Especially for a fanbase as rabid as his this is something you have to consider with everything you say and as I said he is just completely oblivious to it.

Dream's response "you're an idiot" is so pathetic, fighting a grease fire with tap water

Josh’s chat is the best

Josh's greatest quality is his humility. He is not scared to be real with his opinions but understands that people will have different opinions and that is fine. Most people just can't get over the fact that other people will have different opinions no matter what

He said what needed to be said. I see how it could be seen as harsh, but his wording was concise and deliberate. Dream and his fans' response just proves he was right

I feel like Dream and Jawsh might have pointedly different views on stans due to how they present themselves (but I could very well be getting things wrong). Jawsh, as well as most of the people he runs with, Carson, Schlatt, etc. their careers are heavily tied to the use of facecams and I would argue that in general their relationship to streaming is somewhat personal/off the cuff. With people like Jawsh and Carson you don't think of an avatar when you think of them, you think of their real face. Likewise, I feel like this degree of putting yourself out there has a tendency to submerge you into the deep end of stan culture, so when it gets BAD it normally gets around to the person at some point, which is stressful. Dream, on the other hand, seems to normally keep things at more of an arms length. He's never shown his face to my knowledge and that already puts up a slight barrier to how personable his fans feel with him, as well as his alias not being based on his real name (at least to my knowledge). I am not a Dream history buff so no idea if I am wrong here but I feel like he got his fame mostly from his edited video content, not from his streams. This, again, means that his tuber career was based in something that was not as personable as streaming to an audience. To be clear, arms-length does not mean professional, it just means that he seems to have a lot less of "himself" out there. And I feel like this causes Dream in turn to experience a more moderated stan experience where he has not necessarily experienced the worst of it like Jawsh and his friends may have, particularly due to Dream's focus on edited content. Idk, I could be very off base here, totally willing to take the L if I am, and I am a little sus at Dream's behavior as of late, but he hasn't said any slurs or assaulted anyone so I'm willing to give him aq little benefit of the doubt.

Josh has always been a based individual, even back when all the SMP fans were making fanart and he said that that shit made him uncomfortable and asked people to stop, honestly the entirety of Lunch Club doesn't take the crazy shit from fans and it's honestly refreshing to put those gross people in their place in my opinion

It's so weird seeing jawsh talking so seriously, it's like Adam Sandler or Jim carry in serious movies,

this video is literally the opposite of what Jawsh wanted, "Jawsh being BASED..." like he just said he doesn't want a circlejerk and shit. bruh

The way jschlatt makes content and forms his image on yt combined with how jawsh conducts himself online and i imagine irl is the perfect role model imo

I am kinda sided with Jawsh on this one don't come at me

this feels like a parent scolding a child

Jawsh was the most genuine one in this drama, I'm honestly on his side on this

Even though it's been around 2 months since this incident occurred I can't help but compliment Josh because he's able to defend himself to such a degree without using exuses to try and push himself forward over everyone else that looks up to him.

I understand his point. I also agree with him to an extent. However he did use some harsh words, and he could have waited a bit to calm down and then post about it.

as someone who has also dealt with hyperfixation, i don’t understand when others use it as an excuse. people are allowed to tell you when your actions are making them uncomfortable no matter if you hyperfixate or not

it was so clear that he was saying adoration to such extent is an unhealthy way to behave not that all are stans are mentally ill, people wanna victimise themselves so bad man

yeah after seeing both sides and perspectives i just think y'all have seen two completely different versions of "stan culture". In Dream's mind, hes helping redefine the term "stan" to stop being so negative and he literally just wants to make his fans feel better about liking things and hyperfixating on things. I think what's why he had the initial reaction he did. He's only seen the good of "stan culture" and to him stan shouldn't be such an ugly word. The toxic ones are either rare or someone trying to cause trouble and he didnt like having an entire fan base of people being labeled negatively (in his eyes) BUT it is indeed toxic in many ways and what Jawsh has experienced is not what Dream has experienced. I've seen it plenty myself. That's why trying to explain to each other probably isn't going anywhere because what each of you have seen is so fucking contrasting. Neither of you are wrong. That's something I know for damn sure. The both of you hold your opinions very strongly. Nobody is wrong. I think the both of them made mistakes talking about it (dream calling him an idiot, and the harshness of Jawsh's original thread) which is normal, they're both human beings. Dream is not the bad guy. Jawsh is not the bad guy. So I think people need to stop fully taking one person's side over the other and admit Jawsh has a point.

I know this is old bits it’s nice to see someone who genuinely understands the issue and doesn’t get all pissy when someone disagrees with them, it’s a shame that that specific culture has become such a taboo subject

Eminem: makes Stan, a song about how obsessing over people you dont even know is a toxic mindset that only ends up hurting you and the people around you Dumb 11 year olds on twitter: that me

As part of the mcyt community, it was his statement that really started to pull me away. I’ve always stood by the notion of not making cc’s uncomfortable and respecting boundaries and whilst yes I will admit i’ve made mistakes with using some people’s faces as pfps with knowledge that they found it weird, I’m willing to admit I was wrong. Seeing Dream respond was what just pissed me off. He fed into the mob mentality. He enabled their behavior. He needs to understand his audience is not older teens, his audience is comprised of children. many many children. a funny cartoon man who is really good at minecraft- he has 14 million followers for a reason

From a stan who currently doesn’t want to be one for mental reasons, I could not understand how people think he is wrong- like just speaking from myself my standers in people are crazy now and all I do all day is thinking about youtubers it’s all I do and I hate it like I wish I could watch a youtuber without crushing on them;;

my man went into the lions den and walked out with exagerated swagger

Jawsh is the only RU-vidr who could survive a debate with someone like Jordan Peterson