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He is being way too polite and tepid here the hard truth is that we are stuck inside of a high tech dark age now. The aesthetic criteria found in the general public has been lowered so far that folks are actually making comments like those found here. At this point outside of a few anomalies like Hiatus Coyote or Jacob Collier,or Snarky Puppy and a few others it's a wasteland out there. The only examples of advanced music receiving broad exposure are in Film Music
Me: *_thinks_** I’m going to see a reaction to a pop song by a pianist* Charles: *learns song in seconds, analyzes said song, and rewrites it to make it 10x better, including advanced piano theory* Me: Oh okay, I guess we’re doing this now.
This makes it sound a bit more impressive than it actually is. It's a simple song with a pretty basic repeating diatonic chord progression - there just isn't that much to be learned in the song (theory-wise), because it uses basic elements that many other pop songs use. I mean, it's cool that he does that, but any decent musician who has learned other tunes in the same style would be able to learn the tune by ear with little effort. Charles could easily do the same with a lot more complex stuff.
he made the chord progression better by itself but it wouldn’t make the song better in fact the opposite in context of the melody & lyrics it would take away. Musicians learned music theory in the lens of performing it. They don’t know what they don’t know. In fact they overestimate how much they know & underestimate what they dont because they remained in a highly specialized compartimentalized domain of expertise & mastered it. jazz musicians also have lot of ivory tower elitism with each other. They learned the rules and became part of the boxed thinking of academic institutions. I know lot of musicians with great ear, incredible skill but they can’t write a song or craft anything interesting to save their life. It "sounds" good, & seems good on paper but it doesn’t move people. This is why there are creators & there are performers. Both have different things to bring to the table. Both sides need to respect the other. Just because new music doesn’t follow whatever conventions of the past your learned is irrelevant to mainstream music listeners. Music theory is just an algorithm to ingest lot of music easily. There are no rules in music. Only guidelines
I think I know what you were hearing in the bridge. There's a pad in the background holding a D# and a G#. When the III comes around, the E note of the chord played on the guitar clashes with the D# of the pad.
You are right ; there is a pad playing holding the note. What sounds particulary good in this chord, is that the pad holds a High Eb (with a sweet timbre, a high cut filter), while the guitar plays a C7 chord (without the 5th), followed by a Cmin7. The result : a C7#9 (but that chord is just for the first "1,2,3,4,5,6" ; that chord becomes a Cmin7 in the next "1,2,3,4,5,6") I hope that's clear enough ^^
Charles in the mirror before he starts recording: "Do I button the shirt up all the way? No that's too boring. Unbuttoning just one is actually even more expected. Leaving two undone is more dynamic, but what if I only buttoned one button!? Now THAT'S an unexpected groove..."
Charles I personally really appreciate those alternative chord progressions that you showed, they definitely have more color and a more apt tone to it (being stuck ith loved ones during quarantine is sweet and bitter at the same time) Though, I wonder if that is something that would appeal to the general public. I know I get frustrated when chords don't go the way I expect it to go (arrangers in my acappella group likes to make things extra spicy)
I totally know what you mean about acappella arrangers, lol. I'm the kind of arranger that doesn't know much music theory beyond the basics so I end up doing it mostly by ear, which ends up sounding more like pop than our more complex pieces. There's definitely a difference between colorful music and music that appeals to the masses.
Absolutely and that was sort of my point when I said I completely understand why they don't do the crazy stuff. I'm just not sure where that line is in terms of what remains consumable on a mass scale
The general public is us, and we shouldn't let those who control the masses determine what's appealing or not, because usually people are just contempt with what they're given, thus the dumbening of pop music throughout this century and society's musical taste as a whole unfortunately
@@denzeruouji542 I do agree to an extent, but the big labels' "control" is often informed by sales and public feedback. I do think it takes some musical aptitude and knowledge to appreciate more complex music, in other words some music are not as accessible. A non-functional chord that works well in a song might sound "wrong" to the untrained ear and be considered inferior. The bottom line is that taste is subjective, what seems sublime to us might sound wanky to others, and what seem dumb to us might be "easy-listening" for the public.
Music is a general language. If you see jazz as such a different thing, you don't realise what you are missing out on. Jacob colliers track in the video ain't jazz either but still slams it... Coincidence I never ever heard ariana or justin do that in such way??? Hmmm...
SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT i literally never hear anyone talk about how music is sometimes *too* perfect and i was convinced i was just being petty but im glad this is an actual thing lmao
You've never heard people talk about music being stale, boring, over-produced, over-quantized, auto-tuned, cookie-cutter, plastic, unoriginal, lacking creativity, bland, or being too safe!?!? That's hard to believe. People have been saying that shit for over 100 years about pop music and beyond.
@@starrk7158 Well, that's kind of the point - chords are accompaniment, the melody is the center. The purpose of the chords is to support the melody. But I would say the extended chords are still quite easy to hear in pop songs. Why they don't sound complex is because they are often based on simple triads with "wrong" bass notes. For example a lot of pop songs in C major would use chords like C with F or D in the bass. That creates an Fmaj9 or Dm11 (or D9sus4) sound. Or maybe F with G in bass with singers singing C major pentatonic over it (creating G13sus4). Why this doesn't sound complex (or "offensive" to the ear) is because it's still based on very simple elements - diatonic triads, pentatonic melodies, diatonic basslines. They are just not completely "agreeing" with each other (you could see them all as different layers that are kind of doing their own thing - but because all are diatonic to the key, it still works) - the chords are doing their own thing and are mostly centered around the tonic triad or maybe alternating between a couple of basic major triads (the chords may actually be fairly static and not really change at all), the melody is centered around the tonic triad all the time (C major pentatonic over all chords in the C major key - the melody doesn't necessarily follow the chords in any way), and the bass is kind of doing its own thing, creating a pretty basic progression. So, it doesn't sound like "extended chords", because the chords aren't really used exactly like extended chords would be used in jazz. There just are three different layers that are all diatonic to the key, but aren't necessarily directly related to one another. For example take With Or Without You by U2. The synth in the beginning is only playing the tonic chord, whereas the bass plays a basic 1 5 6 4 progression. The last chords are technically VIm7 IVmaj9, but they are actually just the I chord with different bass notes.
Charles: Guess my name This song: Henry Charles: Correct! Cool, you just need to add a C in the beginning, an s at the end and an l after you've removed the n and y and scrambled the letters up a bit. Doing great! I actually love when teachers are like this
I think Charle’s emotional intelligence might be the key to both his success as a RU-vid personality and of course the outstanding musical knowledge and ability he’s gathered over the years. He doesn’t focus on his or other people’s mistakes, he’s always open for learning and improving, he is very careful about judging other people, of course he sometimes pokes fun at some personalities, but still not with the intend of humiliating them. To me he is a very wise person and I think we could all learn something from him, not just music, but also a wise way of living and being always open to new experiences.
@@lennoxbonnie5210 it doesn't... opera singer here. Most sopranos can do it. Most just don't know till they try. Its not hard to do, but its hard to have full control over it. That takes training
@@strivingtoonedaybeuseful6049 yeah yeah whatever. You kinda just proved my point. You know 2 SOPRANOS THAT CAN DO IT!? SHOCKING!! I'm talking control, phrasing, vibrato, going as low as a F5, riffs&runs,sustaining. But everyone can do that right?
@@lennoxbonnie5210 you didn't read my comment at all I'd you. I know many sopranos that can do it. I know 2 second sopranos that can do it and 1 alto. But hey you probably don't even know what I second soprano is. So let me not bother conversation with you further since you don't even know what I'm talking about. Next time read the comment before you reply. Its not that hard
So honestly I used to overanalyze the more pop sounding tracks, especially when I first got into jazz playing. But over the years I have surprisingly gravitated back toward appreciating their simplicity. Not everything has to be more complex. And while I love that backdoor 2-5 as much as any other has player, I think it completely changes the tone and vibe of the track. The minor 6 feels poignant and I like it. Jazzier takes are great, not I think the reason the simple pop progressions work is that they tend to rely on more stable chords that in the end just work better supporting a vocal. The 2 chord and Dorian mode are my favorites, but I have to admit the 4 just feels rock solid and I think resonates with more people. While I don't listen to pop often at all, I would definitely love more variation But I'm honestly just happy to see progressions other than a variation of 1-5-6-4 at this point.
It’s a video specifically focusing on the theory and structure of the piece. Fans of the musicians come here to post triggered comments without realising this fact
Tara i don’t think they’re trying to make it sound like ed, but it’s just because ed has been dedicated to specific sound and a certain style of writing. the writing is different from ed’s but the guitar sounds a lot like his style. the prononciation is also different compared to ed’s.
haha when he said he feels like he's hearing both the minor and major 3rd (roughly 12:30), it's actually a really cool variation of the 3 that I love playing. In terms of C, it would be C, E, G (or A flat), B flat, D flat, E flat
Charles puts all of my thoughts into words when it comes to pop music. "it's not bad, it's not wrong, it's just... *waves hands in minor frustration longing for more complexity and depth to the sound*"
Me: Plays a song after a month of practice with sheet music. Charles: Plays a song after 0 minutes of practice by ear. Also Me: Wait you're even adding your own improvisations. What th-
I have a sneaking suspicion Charles likes Steely Dan. The use of the two chord, tossing in a backdoor ii-V, playing with add9 stuff... but maybe that's just jazz, baby.
Charles Cornell my roomie and I covered Josie a couple weeks ago, and man I was blown away by all the parallel triads over their 4th ex E over A and it sounds so cool. Would love to hear you cover and/or breakdown a Steely Dan track!
Sweet rosalie, she’s working at the five and dime. Train back to Hackensack, with rosemary wine. Yoi Deedle doidle dee. Cocaine. S n o r t. We both like to do cocaine!
You: am I hearing this right or am I going insane Me someone who's studied music: yeah man I'm with you No one: Any metal guitarist: ITs CaLlEd DiSsOnEnCE
Charles I’m so glad I’m not the only one who is at a loss for words when they try to explain a melodic or rhythmic line that really grooves in the pocket. Even now I can’t explain it without using music terms that some people won’t get.
I would love to see you covering it and spicing/jazzing it up and in the end of the video explaining the thought process behind the changes you made ;)
I love how I can easily identify with what you're saying and also learn a lot about music theory at the same time. This is the perfect blend I need in my life.
“it’s not the complexity, that doesn’t matter” as a small artist myself, i’m more vocally trained. i can be complex vocally and have a hell of a time. but my music also contains only my own knowledge of guitar, uke, piano and drums cuz i have no other help. so instrumental complexity is something i’ve lacked more and have always beat myself up over. but to hear you say that reminded me that sometimes fancy complex chord structures aren’t what make good music
This man sight reads without sheet music. I’m both in shock and awe. Not only can he instantly play what he hears, he can improvise off of it to make something better than the original piece. Phenomenal.
It takes practice to have good enough relative pitch to do this. Once you figure out the key that the song is in you have to be able to hear the chords by relative pitch. And yes, relative pitch can be practiced and everyone can do it unlike perfect pitch
@@benderbi I wouldn't be surprised if he did play right away tho. Aural training is such a huge part of jazz musicianship that most jazzmen that I know of can figure out melodies and chords pretty much right away.
@@oblongjr I know, I'm just saying that not everything we see on internet is real and it's ok if he misses some notes. We've all seen what he's capable of on his other vids here on the channel.
I appreciate that! There's probably an entire side to this world that I know nothing about when it comes to marketability. They make music that makes money. My ideas probably wouldn't.
12:15 Pretty sure that's a III7#9 / C7#9 (i.e., C E G Bb D#). The progression I - III7 - IV is a pretty established sound in R&B, and adding the #9 makes the III7 feel more bluesy. In turn, it also recontextualizes Justin Bieber's diatonic ad lib of "can't fight this no more" that ends on the #9 (Eb/D#) of the chord. What would have otherwise been a safe 5 scale tone winds up sounding like a clever minor blues lick.
James is basically saying why he doesn’t like pop music, as a pop song it is perfect but he’s basically giving his jazzy touch which doesn’t necessarily fit the songs genre but good job James
Hmmm. Music is a general thing. Jazz ain't a completely different game if that is what you are thinking. Actually the majority of pop music is build on the core fundamentals relating to basic jazz theory. Like 99÷ of all music... So I find it difficult to see people react in such naive way, which just ignores the fact that all music basically works in a same way. Jazz is just the name slammed on the music of the people that started using and experimenting with all of the logics inside music as a general. So if something sounds really off, sure you don't need to think the same, but if you show the other side: here, this could maybe work better. You can understand why music ain't that different across genres. And ofcourse would make the music be worth more since the biggest names of history are the ones that pushed music to it's limits....
@@matec.1773 mjeah depends on how you look at it. In core yes sure. But a lot of experimental or more modern composing styles like Stravinsky or Gershwin were hugely inspired by the developments in the jazz scene. Since a lot of 'modern' sounds and uses for complex musical theory were being introduced to the general public by jazz musicians. So yeah in the core at the end of the line it builds on classical (would call that basic) music theory. But since the original comment specifically said 'jazzy' I thought I'd mostly talk about jazz theory. And to be exact: I actually not even mentioned anything about jazz theory being the inventors of all theory, I just said they introduced experimenting with different ways of making music, including theory, to the general public.
I like the metronomic comment, I’m a clarinet player and playing stuff like Brahms, Weber, crussel etc. eighth notes become slightly elongated sort of like a twelfth note if you will. It’s very effective like the example you used, and that is the musical difference that separates the boys from men
I have no clue what you're talking about when explaining keys and notes...but I still enjoy watching your videos and listening to you explain and exam music and relate it back to your knowledge about music! Keep doing what you do, you're amazing!😊 luv u💕💕
the groove in jacob’s song is pretty wonky and feels really good. i think jacob doesn’t use the quantise button, just like d’angelo. the groove feels way better and alive because the drums aren’t smacked in place. Quantise gets used a lot in pop music, just like this song.
Drum nerd here. About the groove in ‘Time Alone’: it’s actually every second eighth note that’s being played about a sextuplet later! The eighth notes that fall on beat 1, 2, 3 and 4 are being played exactly on the beat and all eighth notes on the ‘and’ are being played about a sextuplet later! Similar to many of the grooves J-dilla produced. I don’t know if it would be applicable to the 6/8 meter of Stuck With You!
Have you ever watch Collier speak on where his swung eights lay??? Insane, this is a great example of his fav type of eighth note (57 percent swing as he calls it)
@@Andrew-sc6dq Thanks for your comment. 'Feel' is a great example of a 6/8 beat being super loose, didn't think of that. I would say the tempo is key in this, probably way harder to achieve a feel like this in the tempo of Stuck with you. But of course, I'm sure somebody like Collier would find a solution! I just don't if it's the right answer to that song.. But that's a creative difference. I would definitely say it's 6/8 btw, there is a clear backbeat going on in the guitar, on the 4th beat. I'm not sure how you would count this comfortably in 3/4 or 3/8.
I arranged this song, and I was confused by this strange chord (12:05), after 2 minutes trying to find the best way to reproduce it, I had to leave it as C Major, I had no choice XD. For those who want to see the score, just search this song on MuseScore and find my version
The chord is a C7 with a Eb also lol, therefore giving off the dominant and minor quality. So if you over analyze it you could say the Eb is a #9 but I think the producers just made an uh oh.
Your videos make me smile. I'm pretty sure I've watched half of them in two days. I love the way you have a dry humor, and it makes me laugh because it's exactly what I like. Thank you for giving input nobody asked for; it's a bright spot in my day.
big fan. think it's amazing to see how i expected you to go to the four and do a 2-5-1 as a piano player myself and i find it refreshing they actually didn't go for it for the main pattern, but rather used it as a little "flavor in the end. also i believe the dominant/minor "clash" sounded cool, JB does it all the time, especially with his runs which oddly enough sound "off", but cool :) pretty sure they did that on purpose too. obviously the producers/musicans involved know exactly what they do and all musical decisions made seem conscious. i applaud that.
I'm not a celebrity, but I was already stuck in a mansion before the pandemic. Let's see if my random presence will provide cannon fodder to deflect the inevitable mindless celebrity bashing…
Watchng this reaction is like seeing a top chef do a food critique. He points out all the bascis that they got spot on but constructively points out where adding a little extra spice and seasoning would have been appropriate, where some ingredients are a bit out of balance and some ways that this could have been approved upon. I really enjoy how much you build up the artists whilst still putting down a good critique 10/10.
